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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.23 21:13:00 -
[1]
The people saying 'Adapt or Die' are criminally out of touch with reality and apparently do not have enough sense to logically look at the issue here. The person who actually suggested that there is no problem with nano-setups because anyone can use the same setup against them is sadly lacking the ability to see the laughable reasoning (or lack thereof) with that argument.
A very simple indicator for when something is out of balance in a game is when you find a ship/setup/module/etc becoming such an incredibly popular choice that it becomes a trend at the exclusion of other alternatives.
This particular issue crossed that line a while back. Inertial Stabs exacerbated the problem.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 21:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 23/01/2007 21:19:41
Originally by: Rachel Vend
Originally by: Tovarishch The people saying 'Adapt or Die' are criminally out of touch with reality and apparently do not have enough sense to logically look at the issue here. The person who actually suggested that there is no problem with nano-setups because anyone can use the same setup against them is sadly lacking the ability to see the laughable reasoning (or lack thereof) with that argument.
A very simple indicator for when something is out of balance in a game is when you find a ship/setup/module/etc becoming such an incredibly popular choice that it becomes a trend at the exclusion of other alternatives.
This particular issue crossed that line a while back. Inertial Stabs exacerbated the problem.
Hmm...
That's funny, coming from a Caldari player. Considering all NPC runners use RAVENS, how come your not trying to get RAVENS nerfed? EVERYBODY uses Ravens to NPC and do missions in.
So that must mean RAVENS are overpowered!
Firstly, since you are either new here and jump to conclusions, or are uninformed - a pilot of any race can fly ships of any other race. My being Caldari is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
Secondly, your point regarding Ravens could easily be argued... and you might even have a good point if you could brush up on your logic. However, once again... you are completely off topic.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 21:41:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 23/01/2007 21:40:06
Originally by: Rachel Vend One point I am trying to make is the fact that if the nanoship wants to fight, it's not that hard to kill them when you get some webs on him. If a nanoship pilot is fitting NOS (which he will have to in order to maintain the MWD), he will need to be within 25k of his victim.
If he's within 25k, several inties can get on him and web him, or a hugin or however you spell it could just web him to death.
The problem isnt that though. The problem is them getting away from a fight...
In one statement (bolded for clarity) you completely contradicted your entire post.
Any ship with loads of nanos and inertial stabs in it's low slots is very, very difficult to catch. Catching them at a gate is essentially impossible because they can make it to the gate while webbed... and do the same thing on the other side, ad nauseam, until the tacklers give up and decide to leave.
The problem indeed is the fact that it is hard to kill them. It's absolutely no coincidence to me that this nano phenomenon took place as a result of the WCS nerf... because it is the next most efficient way to make a ship incredibly difficult to kill.
Explain to us why you are flying around a 4 bill isk ship that is EASY to kill, please.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 21:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rachel Vend It takes 5 minutes to kill a rookie ship. It's purely travel.
Your penchant for wild exaggeration is making your posts look more ridiculous... and you're losing the little credibility you have left saying such things.
Quote: I don't want to die to a 50 vs 1 fight.
Any ship should die in a 50 v 1 fight. You making this statement actually proves my point. Nano setups are VERY difficult to kill... and you are flying an expensive setup around because you understand that fact. Thanks.
Quote: You on the other hand, just want everything you see to die instantly without any chance whatsoever.
Yes, our corp is famous for just wanting things to blow up instead of putting ourselves at risk and having fun... even if outnumbered. Flawless logic once again.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 22:39:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 23/01/2007 22:36:23
I want to make one quick addition to this thread... just to state my opinion.
I do not think nanos are wildly unbalanced or game-breaking... the same goes for intertial stabs. However, I do think they need a small tweak. They augment some ships very well, particularly Minmatar ships... and allow for some really interesting setups.
But... the issue comes into play when people start saying that anyone should be able to escape any fight anytime they please... and that bubble camps and interdictor spheres should essentially only kill people that apparently want to be killed.
The world of EVE is a dangerous place... and the heavy sense of loss is what makes this game so amazing. If you want to be safe and partake only in consentual PVP... then stay in 0.5 and up. Dictor spheres and bubbles aren't even an issue until you hit 0.0... and by then you better be damn willing to put some money on the line. Any setup or ship that offers a 'Get out of jail free' card for bubble camps of any sort needs to be nerfed... period. Even blockade running Transport Ships are not invulnerable to such camps... and they have no combat ability.
If you want invulnerability... bring friends. Do not rely on modules or setups.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.23 22:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Rachel Vend
Originally by: Tovarishch
This statement provides solid proof of the idea that people are using these setups as a replacement for WCS... which were nerfed for a reason. Nano setups provide similar escape advantages as WCS... without the penalties.
They were nerfed because of whiners were not getting as many targets as they wanted. Now the targets found a new way, and the whiners are back whining. What a glorious cycle!
So, what you are saying is that the devs at CCP have no ability to balance the game on their own and simply bend to the whims of whiners?
Riiiiiiiiiight.
WCS were nerfed because they long needed a nerf... long before you began playing this game. Your agenda is to continue to keep your favored setup powerful... an interest that obviously has nothing to do with game balance. Not one person in this thread has provided a solid argument or counter for the issue here. Some of us truly enjoy seeing the game balanced... see my above post.
Also... I'm not sure why you continue to resort to childish comments regarding wanting killmails. Stick to the topic and present some arguments please.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.24 00:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rachel Vend
Originally by: Tovarishch WCS were nerfed because they long needed a nerf... long before you began playing this game. Your agenda is to continue to keep your favored setup powerful... an interest that obviously has nothing to do with game balance. You have stated in this thread that any single player should be able to escape any single gang or camp at any given time... which leads to the concept of 'You cannot kill me unless I want to be killed'. What you want is hand-held safety all the time. Please read my above post.
OT: In case you havent noticed yet, this is an alt. You have been playing EVE for a less than a day longer than me.
You CAN kill nanoships, you just have to THINK of a way to do it. Since your having a bit of difficulty, you assume it's overpowered. I had great difficulty thinking of a way to get out of bubble camps without using WCS or instas, or logging.
So, obviously, you might have a bit of difficulty thinking of a counter to my setup. But once you do, if you can think of a counter, everyone and their dog will do it.
Personally, rather than nerfing the nanos, I'd rather see them just come up with a slightly better counter, maybe a task for Tech 2 webs.
A. You can say you are posting with an alt... but until you post with your main it's talk.
B. As an MC pilot I'm a full-time PVPer. I'm very aware of counters to nano setups. Once again, that isn't point. WCS advocates said the exact same thing, 'Adapt or Die' or 'Just use your brain and counter it'. It's not a matter of counters... it's a matter what sort of setups have been created using a nano/inertial stab combos... and the fact that battleships are now breaking interceptor speeds. It's safe to assume that this was never the intention when battleships were created.
Regardless, as you mentioned, you don't want to lose a battleship to a 50 man gang. Any single ship/setup in this game that allows the ability to do that is unbalanced. Period. This isn't a matter of counters... this is a matter of module and ship balancing.
Having a couple counters to a module and ship/seup does NOT equate to balance.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.24 00:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Berrik Radhok Nano battleships are annoying, but not really all that dangerous.
An industrial that went 5k/sec, had 10k armor and shields, drone space, and +4 to warp strength wouldn't be dangerous either.
It also wouldn't be balanced.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.24 00:34:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 24/01/2007 00:30:37
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Tovarishch Regardless, as you mentioned, you don't want to lose a battleship to a 50 man gang. Any single ship/setup in this game that allows the ability to do that is unbalanced. Period. This isn't a matter of counters... this is a matter of module and ship balancing.
To play devils advocate - inties can do that. Cov ops and to a lesser extend force recons, too.
Of cource, they cannot engage the gang without getting blown to really small bits. Although a nanoBS cannot really either, at least vs a 50 man gang. Vs a 5-10 man thats another thing, though.
And of cource inties do not have the firepower, range (well, sans missilecrow) or nospower of a nanoBS. And pop a "little" bit faster. Cov ops cannot kill anything on their own. Force recons..are actually not that different to nanoBS from the principle, but again much more vulnerable once they engage (or get decloaked by a good ceptor).
You went on in your post to make my point for me. Intys do not pose the same threat as nano battleships.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.01.25 23:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rachel Vend
1. Their damage is total crap.
a. Wrong. b. Even if it were true that a nano BS had poor damage output... having a ship with approximately 8k shields, 8k armor, a sizable drone bay, damage output greater than a cruiser, and the ability to travel around 4k to 5k a sec is simply gamebreaking. That you cannot/will not see that is utterly incomprehensible to me.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
2. If they get webbed, they are on the express train to the clone bay.
This has already been proven to be completely false and you continue to ignore it.
Originally by: Rachel Vend
3. The better (faster) setups are just as expensive as the faction/officer tank setups, and just as hard to kill.
A high cost does not balance an unbalanced ship.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
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Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.26 23:48:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tovarishch on 26/01/2007 23:48:13
Originally by: Solar Blade
Stop Whining and Adapt to your advisaries.
The same could be said to you... and everyone else who makes this stupid comment.
How about YOU stop whining and adapt to life without a battleship that is as fast and agile as an interceptor.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Tovarishch
Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.02.06 01:45:00 -
[12]
People can argue one way or the other. I have seen very little in the way of objectivity in this thread.
What it comes down to is this - Dual MWD/AB setups were nerfed for many reasons... primarily because battleships were reaching speeds that CCP had never intended.
The same thing is happening again. Those people who are dependent upon using nano-BSes to run and engage only when they have a huge margin for success had better start preparing for a nerf.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
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