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Thecle Vifargent
GandY Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:09:00 -
[1]
Any news about the revamp ?
Tuxford said they have a surprise, a plan, we should be patient...
But as whe had to be patient for the christmas gift according ccp staff...
I would like this point not buried forever, as it become harder and harder to trust what is said by the staff.
(thanks to avoid flaming its my point of vue that's all).
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Sandra Tseng
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:14:00 -
[2]
They mentioned a new superheavy bomb for them
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Ordo Lucius
Buy Loyal Approval
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:44:00 -
[3]
Tactical Anti-blob Nuke (with a massive AOE) is what my moneys on...
He said they were implementing new stuff to make blobs less viable as an assault tactic, ie. "Something that can cause big problems for lots of ships close together..."
Finnaly! Stealth Bombers are going to have a role, and a bloody good one too! Blob-Popping!!!
(This is all my attempt to read between the lines, but it does make sense)
"An idiot always wins. Why? Because he's too stupid to realise when he's lost..." |
Thecle Vifargent
GandY Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:34:00 -
[4]
Hope they'll do something fun of that... not a omfgpwnmchn, but something fun... |
Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:51:00 -
[5]
My question is whether it will use existing skills and modules, or do I get to train up a new tree? I'd hate to train up t2 cruises for them to be phased out on the stealth... (I don't fly battleships)
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Hey hey let's go kenka suru!
Taisetsuna mono protect my balls!
Boku ga warui so lets fighting!
LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:56:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Thecle Vifargent
Hope they'll do something fun of that... not a omfgpwnmchn, but something fun...
Like a huge magnetic field bomb that will make all the ships stick together, meaning you need to warp as one or single ships will just be picked off lol .. See if you can make a blob bigger than a titan :)
Seriously tho, have no clue but it should be something anti blob.. I propose some sort of new weapon (like a torpedo) with creative war heads..
- Something like the racial effects?
- Amarr: an AoE tracking disruption effect
- Gallente: an AoE remote sensor damp effect
- Caldari: an AoE target jam effect
- Minmatar: an AoE target paint effect
or maybe something more basic:
- An AoE warp scramble effect (remote interdictor sphere)
- An AoE smart bomb (mini doomsday anyone?)
- An AoE anti-inertia/web effect (i dunno if that's even anti blob)
- An AoE fake-titan-spawns-in-middle-oops-warped-inside-station effect (bwehehe, ships shooting out of blob in all directions)
The tracking disruption/target painting/magnitiser effects sound like fun tbh  but I don't blob nor fight blobs so I'm no expert..
What would blob specialists really like to see in anti blob stuff..
- All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me
- Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
kill0rbunny
Caldari
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.01.23 15:07:00 -
[7]
Adding a launcher would do much more than all this crap.
EVE-+NLINE Supporter of T+TALHELLDEATH |
Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.23 15:22:00 -
[8]
I'd realy like to know what they have planned for stealth Bombers aswell, I have to admit that a Huge anti-blow weapon would be nice as right now there isint realy a anti-blob weapon beyond a titans Doomsday but thats not the cost effective solution one would hope for.
I also was a bit partial for dumping Cruise missiles off the Bombers and giving them Citadel launchers instead and making them anti-capital ship platforms. They should be able to (without any other changes) pop out of stealth, fire a volley, and then recloak before a capital ship can lock them (capital ships take forever to lock frigates).
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Chinese Chick
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Posted - 2007.01.23 15:28:00 -
[9]
Imo the sole purpose of a stealthbomber is to go to target unseen, drop payload and get out unseen.
Only ship-type that can travel unseen are Cov-Ops and teh Cruiser equivilent.
I'd like to see a stealth bomber that actually poses a thread to gate-camps, fleets, POS', etc
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.23 16:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Chinese Chick
Imo the sole purpose of a stealthbomber is to go to target unseen, drop payload and get out unseen.
Only ship-type that can travel unseen are Cov-Ops and teh Cruiser equivilent.
I'd like to see a stealth bomber that actually poses a thread to gate-camps, fleets, POS', etc
Citadel torps would do that even without being able to warp cloaked. I use my bomber quite effectivly to pop the canisters full of minerals of my enemies (cost them alot more money that way then trying to catch one of their ships).
Sure they KNOW i'm there and if I'm not they know i will be soon when i come online but they still cannot catch me EVER. I'll warp/cloak in at 100km and since i'll be moving faster cloaked than i can normally theres no chance they can get within 2km of me to drop me out.
Its extremely easy to pick your range now and with good skills using a improved prototype you can uncloak, lock, and fire missiles all within a few seconds and disappear again. With some practice (keep in mind i have cov ops 4 and cloaking 5) you can fire your missiles without losing any time (Ie. you fire as soon as the module is ready) and still remain cloaked nearly the entire time.
Since i can do this easily against mobile ships and canisters i dont think it would be more difficult to do this with citadel torpedoes against a POS so they should be ok with just citadel launchers.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.23 16:07:00 -
[11]
AoE bombs is how I interpreted Tux's message.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Thecle Vifargent
GandY Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.23 18:58:00 -
[12]
Adding a third launcher will make all bomber as useless as manticore.
Tuxford was talking about a total revamp, i hope also it will use the same skill as now to fly with, but as we have no new since this announcement...
A huge AOE antiblob ship could be cool yes the revenge of the frigate strike back  |
Shi Mun
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.01.23 19:08:00 -
[13]
AoE super torps 0.o i wudda been happy with them bein able to fly cloaked and fire torps tbh...
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HAHA! your jammers suck now! Oh wait whats happening to my scorpion... |
Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.23 19:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 23/01/2007 19:30:14
If you can't warp cloaked, it's not a stealth ship, period. Doesn't matter what the high slots can fit or how many there are. If the target can see you warping in, you've lost the element of surprise. As the ships exist now, all you can do while still remaining invisible is to lie in wait.
And, as far as warping in to 100km, firing missiles and then cloaking, have the mechanics of cruises on the stealth changed since Rev? It used to be that you could fire and recloak somewhere inside 40km, and still get damage, but doing so outside that range would result in an impact but no damage. Has that changed? |
Boomhaur
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Posted - 2007.01.24 13:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Flax Volcanus
Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 23/01/2007 19:30:14
If you can't warp cloaked, it's not a stealth ship, period. Doesn't matter what the high slots can fit or how many there are. If the target can see you warping in, you've lost the element of surprise. As the ships exist now, all you can do while still remaining invisible is to lie in wait.
And, as far as warping in to 100km, firing missiles and then cloaking, have the mechanics of cruises on the stealth changed since Rev? It used to be that you could fire and recloak somewhere inside 40km, and still get damage, but doing so outside that range would result in an impact but no damage. Has that changed?
I hope that changed than I'm definatly going back to the idea of piloting a Covert Ops ship, sounds fun poping canister of enimies like that an mabey a stray Industrial or Miner if im lucky.
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Twin blade
Minmatar
The Caldari Confederation
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Posted - 2007.01.24 13:38:00 -
[16]
I got a feeling they will get a XL smart bomb that deals ALOT of damage like 1000 damage a hit get that in a fleet and there is gona be chaos.
!
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Miss KillSome
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Posted - 2007.01.24 13:40:00 -
[17]
if they make S bombers capable of using covert ops cloak, then this cloaks will be even more expensive..
And SB should be anti-frig weapon or anti blob, not anti POS or anti capital. With antiPOS u need better locking range, with anti capital u need alot more high slots to do any dmg..u cant just gather 20 SBs and shoot at that dread, its useless, while u can do better in ordinary mega or raven..
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Arx Impera
Amarr
Black Lance
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.01.24 13:49:00 -
[18]
The real question is...
Can it be used in 0.5+?
*coffcoffJITAcoffcoff*
...who of course promptly went bat****, flipped out and killed some people. |
Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.24 13:50:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 24/01/2007 13:47:09
In the Force Feedback interview they said the are indeed considering huge AE bombs for Stealthbombers. I'm sure it can be made effective against blobs, and give the ships a nice role, but it doesn't really fix the 'stealth' part of the ship imho. They should be tactil strikers, not mini-titans...
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Sammy Xan
Caldari
Elite Storm Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.01.24 14:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Boomhaur
I hope that changed than I'm definatly going back to the idea of piloting a Covert Ops ship, sounds fun poping canister of enimies like that an mabey a stray Industrial or Miner if im lucky.
It's pretty lame imho. There's no profit in it for you, there's no risk involved, just causing some damage to someone. Sounds pretty much like griefing to me. But each one according to his own taste.
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Christopher Dalran
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Posted - 2007.01.24 15:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 24/01/2007 15:14:10
Originally by: Boomhaur
Originally by: Flax Volcanus
Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 23/01/2007 19:30:14
If you can't warp cloaked, it's not a stealth ship, period. Doesn't matter what the high slots can fit or how many there are. If the target can see you warping in, you've lost the element of surprise. As the ships exist now, all you can do while still remaining invisible is to lie in wait.
And, as far as warping in to 100km, firing missiles and then cloaking, have the mechanics of cruises on the stealth changed since Rev? It used to be that you could fire and recloak somewhere inside 40km, and still get damage, but doing so outside that range would result in an impact but no damage. Has that changed?
I hope that changed than I'm definatly going back to the idea of piloting a Covert Ops ship, sounds fun poping canister of enimies like that an mabey a stray Industrial or Miner if im lucky.
No it didnt, you have to count and uncloak before they hit but i dont shoot from that far. I get closer, i just warp in at 100km so I'm not close to anything. The point is i get in place before they can get cans out, cloak and dampers mean i can blow them all up without getting hit then leave for a bit.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.24 16:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sammy Xan
Edited by: Sammy Xan on 24/01/2007 14:59:57
Originally by: Boomhaur
I hope that changed than I'm definatly going back to the idea of piloting a Covert Ops ship, sounds fun poping canister of enimies like that an mabey a stray Industrial or Miner if im lucky.
It's pretty lame imho. There's no profit in it for you, there's no risk involved, just causing some damage to someone. Sounds pretty much like griefing to me. But each one according to his own taste.
Best way to win a war is by disrupting industry and supplylines...
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Tisanta
Amarr
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
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Posted - 2007.01.24 17:05:00 -
[23]
* cries at the thought of long range aoe anti drone doom.*
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Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
DunNa
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Posted - 2007.01.24 18:13:00 -
[24]
I honestly just want normal missles/attacks. While I do like the idea of ranged AoE things I don't like the idea of accidentally blowing up a tackler. I mean for fleet its "ok" but when its small gangs I'd much rather just say "hum I'm going to shoot this guy" and then do so without screwing up other ships. It would make the stealth bombers even MORE situational, it would also mean they would probably have LESS alpha which you really don't get more than one or two volleys off. So unless this is a huge alpha with a really long reload/cooldown I think its going to hurt SBs more than help.
Warped while cloaked, reduce mass, easier fittings all of those would go a long way to making SBs more viable. As for there damage just add a "role bonus" of -50% rof, +50% damage (or something like that I'm not a number cruncher) so that they have that big alpha which is all that really matters for a bomber, rof isn't important.
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Durethia
Momentum.
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.24 19:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Durethia on 24/01/2007 18:57:24
AOE alone is bad.
I think CCP should make Stealth Bombers viable, not via AOE but by targetting bonuses. I'll explain.
A massive and effective AOE will unbalance the game. All a stealth bomber would have to do is lock onto a 0.0 stargate, and hit it once enemies jump. And, to what effect will a stealth bomber have on medium sized gangs versus large ones? We want to eliminate blobing, and if a stealth bomber can harm a small gang just as much as a big gang, the tendancy will simply to have even larger gangs. It will have a reverse effect and not only encourage blobbing, but demand it.
I propose that a stealth bomber NOT have a massive AOE. But, to emulate it, all targetted targets get the same love from the bomb launched. Furthermore, all targetted targets must be within an "AOE" to say. Everyone else is unharmed. So not only does the targets have to be within range (say 10KM), targets receiving damage shall be targetted before the weapon is engaged.
This will solve the problem of smacking stargates with a big bomb. Encourage skill amongst the stealth bombers (especially if there are more than one working together, so they don't overlap targets or AOEs).
Becuase of their role, and the likely hood their target blobs will be heavily sensor boosted. I also propose a locking bennie for stealth bombers to practically lock multiple targets very very quickly and deploy their weapon. Otherwise, a battleship with a few officer sensor boosters fitted will simply snipe the stealth bomber out of the sky too easily rendering the bomber worthless again. The Bombers missiles flight speed should be greatly increased as well, launcher capacity only 1 missile at a time, but reload very very slow.
Just my two cents.
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Maeltstome
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Posted - 2007.01.24 19:26:00 -
[26]
These are all very radical ideas - i personally think you should recieve a sig radius reduction, a rather massive one, so to extend the ability to uncloak, lock, fire and recloak. But maybe that idea is just a bit too easy :/
As far as the "a ceptor just flys towards and uncloaks you", argument goes... just shoot ceptors first.
Oh yea - stop giving resitance bonus's to ships then not backing up the slots. Armor tanking Nemesis with 5-4-2? Shield tanking Hound with 5-3-3? Then there is the manticore with no tanking and another 5-4-2. Please fix that.
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Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.24 19:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Maeltstome
As far as the "a ceptor just flys towards and uncloaks you", argument goes... just shoot ceptors first.
Unless you're on top of the inty or he's asleep at the wheel, he's going notice those pokey cruise missiles on their way and hit the gas. How are you going to pop him first when he outruns the missiles? |
Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.24 19:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Durethia
Otherwise, a battleship with a few officer sensor boosters fitted will simply snipe the stealth bomber out of the sky too easily rendering the bomber worthless again. The Bombers missiles flight speed should be greatly increased as well, launcher capacity only 1 missile at a time, but reload very very slow.
Just my two cents.
Just fit an ab on the bomber and keep traversal up, even at 150 no bs sniper can hit you...
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Maeltstome
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Posted - 2007.01.24 19:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Flax Volcanus
Originally by: Maeltstome
As far as the "a ceptor just flys towards and uncloaks you", argument goes... just shoot ceptors first.
Unless you're on top of the inty or he's asleep at the wheel, he's going notice those pokey cruise missiles on their way and hit the gas. How are you going to pop him first when he outruns the missiles?
good luck tanking that MWD and scram at the same time while fully loaded up on nano's rather than CPR, cause thats the only way you can mvoe fast enough to outrun a precision with the proper skills.
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Shifty McMurphy
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Posted - 2007.01.24 20:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Miss KillSome
And SB should be anti-frig weapon or anti blob, not anti POS or anti capital.
What? Of all the things a SB should be, anti-frig is not one of them. Not even remotely.
Stealth Bombers should be a tactical asset for use against large ships, as well as an ambush vessel. This means that the smallest ship a SB should be reasonably expected to have any success against is a cruiser, with BS's being the primary target for SB's.
You want a good, capable SB that fills a role? The AOE nuke idea is nice, but isn't what we need. Yes, it is a capability that would go well WITH stealth bombers, and it is a valid idea, but it isn't something to base an entire class around. Here's what should be done to make stealth bombers viable:
Give each SB 4 high slots, 3 of which are missile hardpoints, the other is a 'generic' high slot. Tweak the numbers so that the bombers can reliably fit either 3 cruise II launchers or 2 seige II launchers. Allow them to use the CovOps cloak. Nix any recloaking delay after controlled decloaks (pilot initiated, not smartbomb/proximity decloaks). Change the missile sig bonus so that frigs don't are no longer good targets for SB's (in other words, more like standard cruise missiles).
Do that, and you'll have a ship designed for covert gang warfare. They WON'T be a solo ship, as they won't have the ability to tackle without exposing themselves, and an exposed SB is a dead SB with their paper armor and hull (which is how it _should_ be). However, with one tackler pinning a target, SB's will be able to make short work of it in a group. They're all about surprise, the game is uncloak, target and fire, then cloak again.
Rig up the tackler with a cloak, and it's the perfect stealth squad for hitting enemy heavy ships. However, inties/frigs would be able to mince bomber wings. We've already got lots of anti-frig ships, so a ship keyed to heavier vessels with frigs being their vulnerability makes perfect sense.
As for racial bonuses and such, I know that will be a sticking point. Give the Caldari the 'standard' +kinetic bonus, and lesser bonuses to all other types. It'll recognize their missile-using heritage through granting them greater flexibility instead of making their SB the only one worth using, as it is now (if you consider any of them worth using).
I personally LOVE the idea of stealth bombers as a tactical asset. There's a lot that can be done with them, if they're implemented correctly.
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