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Maasu
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Posted - 2003.12.08 14:06:00 -
[31]
used frigates and cruisers a lot already. Battleships are only good for 1v1'ing and Hammer tactics.
After patch i reckon the blackbird will be the best 1v1 ship, with the changes to battleship lock times.
ATUK, The Forlorn Hope of Corps. |
Major Trucker
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Posted - 2003.12.08 15:03:00 -
[32]
So Does that mean I can't jump in ontop of gates. Oh thats great instead of 10 runs on the weekend I'll make 4 due to put-put time. Bookmarks are what give you the advantage on your home turf. Does that also mean that the hours I've put in bookmarking are all for nothing. Thats ok cause my marks randomly get kicked out all the time anyway for no reason so I spend all this extra time I have while on autopilot to put them back into place. Not having bookmarks is like not knowing the shortcuts in your hometown. Oh well at least when on autopilot I have time to pack up the bong.
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Scragg
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Posted - 2003.12.08 15:13:00 -
[33]
People will adapt and figure out safe, quick ways to run. jump, and warp if they need to. No big deal just so long as it's not buggy, exploitable, and we are all playing with the same limitations.
Scragg, Tyrell Corporation
Vice-Director Military Operations |
Hakera
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Posted - 2003.12.08 16:00:00 -
[34]
return to gate camping! - at least it got rid of jip lag ganking (i hope)
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
darth solo
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Posted - 2003.12.08 16:26:00 -
[35]
i also like the changes.
What this really does is make solo pirating very hard.
Yeah, cruisers/frigs will b great ships to have, but u have to understand that FOF misiles/drones, kill cruisers/frigs very quick, so i see more team work coming into the game alot more.
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.12.08 16:54:00 -
[36]
The changes will do well but only if they fix the damn roid spawns so you dont have to go ridiculous distances in an indy.
If they dont fix the roid spawn it will mean an indy is more or less a soap bubble in hell - easy to make them go pop! The alternative I suppose is to give us the mobile refineries we were promised that were "all but completed" months ago.
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:07:00 -
[37]
I HATE this change... but it is needed: thus... I applaud the change.
Gate guns in EMPIRE 0.4 and lower will need to remain though.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:20:00 -
[38]
"Gate guns in EMPIRE 0.4 and lower will need to remain though."
... They just may go; it's being considered or something.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:26:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 08/12/2003 17:27:37
 Quote:
I HATE this change... but it is needed: thus... I applaud the change.
Gate guns in EMPIRE 0.4 and lower will need to remain though.
The gate guns escalate the situation and not in a good manner. While they remain they leave 2 options for piracy in empire space and both involve battleships + numbers. That's not good because then you return to needing more numbers to shove them out.
From a piracy standpoint, 3 ships should be all that's necessary to pirate. 2 ships if piloted by competent pilots. 1 if the pirate is extraordinary. When the numbers get pushed above that, the profit goes down splitting between those involved. Less profit means having to camp longer. But the greater numbers also means the harder it is to push them out.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:37:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Edited by: Jash Illian on 08/12/2003 17:27:37
Quote:
I HATE this change... but it is needed: thus... I applaud the change.
Gate guns in EMPIRE 0.4 and lower will need to remain though.
The gate guns escalate the situation and not in a good manner. While they remain they leave 2 options for piracy in empire space and both involve battleships + numbers. That's not good because then you return to needing more numbers to shove them out.
From a piracy standpoint, 3 ships should be all that's necessary to pirate. 2 ships if piloted by competent pilots. 1 if the pirate is extraordinary. When the numbers get pushed above that, the profit goes down splitting between those involved. Less profit means having to camp longer. But the greater numbers also means the harder it is to push them out.
One problem, even if you only need three people to camp a gate that doesn't mean only three would be there. The more they had there the safer it would be and the less likely they would be run off by hunters.
It would be the pirate equivilent of mining scordite. Lower returns but no real risk.
I'm all for moving the gate guns but let's not kid ourselves that the pirates will camp in smaller numbers. They only do things when the odds are heavily in their favor for the most part. They are playing smart, just like the scordite miners.
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WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:38:00 -
[41]
"piracy in empire space"
This is why the guns were put there in the first place.
Pirates do not belong in EMPIRE SPACE, hence the gate guns, and CONCORD...
The way it is now, pirates being able to gank in 0.4 or less withoout consequence from an Empire's Navy is wrong.
If anything, CCP needs to make it so pirates have something to fear in 0.4 Empire space and lower, a degridation of response as the sec rating lowers, not the NO respose situation we have now in 0.4 to 0.1
"Trust No One" |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:40:00 -
[42]
There wont be any piracy if there is no traffic.
Hard fact to get around... no gate guns in EMPIRE 0.4, 0.3, 0.2 and 0.1 will seriously reduce travel under the new system - no way around that at all.
Remember this is travel through, albeit that any and all pirates will say they can only pirates at gates that isnt the reality of the game post patch anymore.
there are already areas of empires cut-off by 0.4 and lower systems in along their routes to the rest of the empire... systems the far side of such places are without any occupation.
This is ot good and indicates the true nature of the majority of pirate prey.
There is no point giving pirates the advantage to pirate freely - and it would be freeely - in 0.1-0.4 systems when they are then no different at all from 0.0 systems.
Thats the hard and bottom line Jash.
It will harm the game more than help it.
Feel free to remove sentry guns from 0.4-0.1 sovereign space though.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:44:00 -
[43]
Edited by: j0sephine on 08/12/2003 17:45:40
"One problem, even if you only need three people to camp a gate that doesn't mean only three would be there. The more they had there the safer it would be and the less likely they would be run off by hunters."
... Alternatively, there might be three of them. But if --supposedly-- they were part of just 12 people strong pirate pack, that leaves 9 pirates who are now free to camp another 3 gates. :s
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WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:46:00 -
[44]
"There is no point giving pirates the advantage to pirate freely - and it would be freeely - in 0.1-0.4 systems when they are then no different at all from 0.0 systems"
Exactly, you may as well take the sovrenty tag away from all 0.4-0.1 systems. 0.5 space and up becomes Empired Controlled space, no negative sec players allowed.
In effect, this is what will happen.
How can an Empire ocupy space and yet not patrol it, or have any means to deal with piracy in those systems, pure rubbish...
"Trust No One" |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 17:59:00 -
[45]
With new additions to hunting capabilities - warp inhibition, being able to warp-jam whilst ships are aligning, and cloaking etc, there is a new element to hunting other players coming into play.
Any "wild claims" that piracy will be absent from empire space if gate guns are not removed is just that - a wild claim.
It would be sheer farce for CCP to remove gate guns when the entire purpose for putting them in is to enable empire space travel to be relatively secure.
Mining and any future actions (npc hunting and so forth) at roids or planets/moons is NOT safe, which is the entire reason for the lower security status.
It seems strange to have to remind people of the fundamental reasoning behind such implementations.
The EMPIRE systems are EMPIRE system because you CAN travel through them relatively safely.
Doing anything else there isnt safe.
I'm all for PvP but see no point in castrating empire travel for the sake of providing effortless insta-kills under the new warp-inhibition gate systems inside EMPIRE space.
You want to kill inside EMPIRE space then you have to earn it by working for it - that's the way its supposed to be... you want to effortless camp for indies foolsih enough not to check local or scout a gate before entering the inhibition area; then non-empire space is the space for you.
(and that includes sovereign space imo).
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:02:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 08/12/2003 18:11:05
Quote:
There wont be any piracy if there is no traffic.
Hard fact to get around... no gate guns in EMPIRE 0.4, 0.3, 0.2 and 0.1 will seriously reduce travel under the new system - no way around that at all.
Remember this is travel through, albeit that any and all pirates will say they can only pirates at gates that isnt the reality of the game post patch anymore.
there are already areas of empires cut-off by 0.4 and lower systems in along their routes to the rest of the empire... systems the far side of such places are without any occupation.
This is ot good and indicates the true nature of the majority of pirate prey.
There is no point giving pirates the advantage to pirate freely - and it would be freeely - in 0.1-0.4 systems when they are then no different at all from 0.0 systems.
Thats the hard and bottom line Jash.
It will harm the game more than help it.
Feel free to remove sentry guns from 0.4-0.1 sovereign space though.
What soveriegn space? Khanid, Genesis, Syndicate, Outer Ring, Derelik? Great Wildlands, Stain and Curse don't count. No guns there already. Everything else is empire space.
Something has to give, Morkt. You know better than I what trade exists between 0.0 and what routes it takes. We both know that the idea of chasing miners is ludicrous. I know that those in it solely for the kills will find a way to get their kills no matter what is done, as isk isn't a motivating factor.
Making it impossible to pirate for isk just forces those who would be in it for isk to kill. With the sentry guns at their current implementation, pirates will just pull 6 battleships back 75km and use long range focus fire. Send in an indy to pick through the pieces. And while it may be possible for a cruiser/frigate force to survive long enough to take advantage of the lock time/tracking of the long range battleships, you still have to gather a large enough group of cruisers/frigates to make it feasible.
You always have 10-12 ships at your beck and call, Morkt? I don't.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:10:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 08/12/2003 18:13:43
Something doesnt "have to give" at all jash - *snip*.
Ive made my points - *snip*.
Justify removal of the sentry guns. tey were put there for a reason, removing them requires something other than amateur dramatics.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:17:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 08/12/2003 18:19:18
Quote:
Something doesnt "have to give" at all jash - you are being hysterical.
Ive made my points - either read them and counter them with your opinion but please avoid the hysterics and theatrics.
*snip*
And something does have to give. I'm not a pirate for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason however is I don't find blowing holes in ships to be piracy. But that's the option that sentry guns leave.
Sentry guns don't stop the killer mentality. They can't. What they do stop are the people who'd pirate for isk, not kills.
Please keep the posts on topic. Discuss the issue, not eachother.
-Jehova
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:23:00 -
[49]
*snip*
IF you want to remove gate guns from empire 0.4 and lower system i suggest you provide a good reason for it and quit with the theatrics and insults.
It is empire space beacuse it isnt easy to pirate - removal of concord (already done) and remocal of gate guns makes it 0.0 space in practice.
That's the reality of it.
*snip*
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:35:00 -
[50]
Quote:
*snip*
*snip*
Quote:
IF you want to remove gate guns from empire 0.4 and lower system i suggest you provide a good reason for it and quit with the theatrics and insults.
I have provided a good reason. *snip* m8. The game cannot be balanced using the extreme. Those that want to do nothing but kill you will find a way to do nothing but kill you, period. They are Extremists. Whatever boundaries the rules define, they will exist right on the edge of those boundaries. That is what an Extremist does.
Trying to prevent the Extremists through restrictions is foolhardy as is only ends up hurting those that are not Extremists. With this particular situation, the lack of viable profit from non-empire space and the increase in lock timers on battleships, the results with the sentry guns being left in will be battleship fleets outside sentry gun range with long range weaponry picking off industrials with focus fire.
Quote:
Now - I suggest you return to discussing the issue and not simply trying to insult me because im making perfectly reasonable and valid points you cannot counter.
*snip*
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:36:00 -
[51]
I doubt they would just remove the guns without finding some sort of replacement.
I came up with a grand idea, and posted it in a thread in patch review that I can't be bothered to link. One of tank's threads.
And Jash has a point, people would just stay beyond sentry range, if they just wanted to kill people. I want to rob people, so I'd be out of luck.
.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:38:00 -
[52]
*snip*
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:40:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 08/12/2003 18:42:59
Quote:
*snip*
*snip*
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:46:00 -
[54]
Quote:
I doubt they would just remove the guns without finding some sort of replacement.
I came up with a grand idea, and posted it in a thread in patch review that I can't be bothered to link. One of tank's threads.
And Jash has a point, people would just stay beyond sentry range, if they just wanted to kill people. I want to rob people, so I'd be out of luck.
Yes, I read it DM - though im not so sure i'd agree with it. I'd rather see concord response varied by area rather than time or kills.
There has to be a reason for any empire system not being protected by either the nav, concord or guns. That reason has to work alongside viable gameplay in so far as travel-through is required for the empire to function.
You can see the effect of even a temporary travel impairment by looking at system useage beyond aunenen in Lonetrek: deserted systems all but unused let alone travelled through.
People allready stay beyond sentry range and pot-shot... whats new and whats wrong with that?
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Crimsonjade
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:49:00 -
[55]
The problem lies not with the sentry guns but with "trade" in itself. There is no reason for many traders to go out to 0.0 at this moment. Lets use some modern world systems theory here real quick... The hegemonic core (being the sovreign states of Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar) are where all production goods should be flowing out of. All of the periphery (GW, Stain, Curse, Khanid, Venal, Fountain, etc etc etc) are where all the raw material should be flowing in from.
Using a simple model:
C P
o -- production goods --> e
r r
e <-- raw material ---- i
p
h
e
r
y
This simple model is how EVE should be working but this is not the case. The ONLY reason to go out to 0.0 space is bistot. But that commodity is not for traders. Corporations are content with using it for production, or moving it to empire space themselves. CCP needs to make goods that only spawn in 0.0 space HIGHLY demanded in empire space.
How? I dont know 100%. I have some ideas such as harvesting some sort of element found in 0.0 that takes a long time to gather, has a medium/ medium large size (so you cannot carry too much in an indy) and is demanded in quantities that rival tritanium.
What is to keep Corporations from producing easily in 0.0 space? The "refined" or production class trade goods produced in empire space. Make these medium large/large so it becomes more expensive to ship to 0.0 than from 0.0.
I know that is seriously off topic, but i was merely illustrating a point. The pirating for isk problem does not always have to be a zero sum solution as you would portray it Jash. The real problem is lack of incentive for traders to take chances. If profit was good enough, traders would go outside and set up escort teams as well.
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 19:05:00 -
[56]
Crimson - absolutely.
Pirates want to have a ready supply of prey. So few people venturing into 0.0 space, and its vastness, makes this less than ideal.
Unfortuantely many pirates want an "ideal" in their lap it seems, and i am vehemently against that.
Some people are making knee-jerk statements without pondering what we do know that is coming in and what is suppsoedly coming in to the game.
Restrictions on empire mining, availability of mobile refineries and other changes to combat and travel all change the picture.
Their is alsoo a fundamental "untruth" regarding piracy in empire systems, it is notrestricted to gates. It is ironic though that many will completely overlook piracy anywhere else other than gates despite incoming changes which may well make that a lot more viable.
Why should there be gate piracy in Empire space?
That's the one point nobody seems to be able to answer, especially when set against the many reason why there should not be. And , lets remind ourselves, lets think beyond what you can do now in terms of "how can i pirate".
Removal of gate guns, and the drastically more difficult issue of travel for industirals through such systems, will have a tremendous and well known effect on entire regions.
Anybody who wishes to remove gate guns from such empire systems needs to think a little bit beyond the current game mechanics and lot more beyond "oh traders have it easy".
I will gladly remind everybody that there is an entire and widespread assumption that any of these pirates will be even allowed to dock anywhere inside empire space within a relatively short period of time.... unfortuantely the use of alts will render such changes alrgely redundant in some regards but, and as with the same happening for NPC Pirate owned stations and the "legitimate" - it all needs to be considered.
I dont think pirates, any of them, should count on being able to pirate inside empire space with anything like the ease with which they currently do (and, yes, i'm not saying it is easy... but just think what it may eventually be like when this is looked back on as "easy".....  )
The current call for removal of gateguns in empire 0.4 and lower systems though seems ill conceived.
If CCP do this - and i suspect they will - they will face yet another public outrage which require either the guns be put back or other travel systems be put in.
Seems ratehr foolish to me as we know the consequences of such "free" piracy as weve seen it earlier in the game.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.08 19:46:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Crimson - absolutely.
Pirates want to have a ready supply of prey. So few people venturing into 0.0 space, and its vastness, makes this less than ideal.
Unfortuantely many pirates want an "ideal" in their lap it seems, and i am vehemently against that.
Some people are making knee-jerk statements without pondering what we do know that is coming in and what is suppsoedly coming in to the game.
Restrictions on empire mining, availability of mobile refineries and other changes to combat and travel all change the picture.
Their is alsoo a fundamental "untruth" regarding piracy in empire systems, it is notrestricted to gates. It is ironic though that many will completely overlook piracy anywhere else other than gates despite incoming changes which may well make that a lot more viable.
Why should there be gate piracy in Empire space?
That's the one point nobody seems to be able to answer, especially when set against the many reason why there should not be. And , lets remind ourselves, lets think beyond what you can do now in terms of "how can i pirate".
Removal of gate guns, and the drastically more difficult issue of travel for industirals through such systems, will have a tremendous and well known effect on entire regions.
Anybody who wishes to remove gate guns from such empire systems needs to think a little bit beyond the current game mechanics and lot more beyond "oh traders have it easy".
I will gladly remind everybody that there is an entire and widespread assumption that any of these pirates will be even allowed to dock anywhere inside empire space within a relatively short period of time.... unfortuantely the use of alts will render such changes alrgely redundant in some regards but, and as with the same happening for NPC Pirate owned stations and the "legitimate" - it all needs to be considered.
I dont think pirates, any of them, should count on being able to pirate inside empire space with anything like the ease with which they currently do (and, yes, i'm not saying it is easy... but just think what it may eventually be like when this is looked back on as "easy"..... )
The current call for removal of gateguns in empire 0.4 and lower systems though seems ill conceived.
If CCP do this - and i suspect they will - they will face yet another public outrage which require either the guns be put back or other travel systems be put in.
Seems ratehr foolish to me as we know the consequences of such "free" piracy as weve seen it earlier in the game.
3 seconds to lock a badger from 80km out with a Typhoon (lock range is 139km). Then the 4 1400mm with an 8.1x damage modifier can start firing. 5 Typhoons can 1 shot volley any industrial from outside sentry gun range and run from any force capable of unseating 5 Typhoons, which is likely to be greater than what most people can summon. That's on Chaos now.
You want pirates inside the warp disruption field. Sentry guns make them stay outside it.
Like I said, Morkt, something has to give or the situation remains the same. Maybe a slight change: Shuttles and Frigates can safely pass gates now. Big deal
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
WhiteDwarf
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Posted - 2003.12.08 20:19:00 -
[58]
"3 seconds to lock a badger from 80km out with a Typhoon (lock range is 139km). Then the 4 1400mm with an 8.1x damage modifier can start firing. 5 Typhoons can 1 shot volley any industrial from outside sentry gun range and run from any force capable of unseating 5 Typhoons, which is likely to be greater than what most people can summon. That's on Chaos now"
The whole point is...
Pirates should not be able to do this in 0.4 space in the first place!
Concord needs a prescence in these 0.4-0.1 systems (ceratin number of patrol ships to watch gates, etc depending on sec rating of the system).
It's total Bull**** that griefers can do this now, why make it easier for them to camp more gates with less people?
The system is total crap the way it works now, and if what I'm hearing about what is on chaos now is true, CCP really did not do a damn thing to fix the fundamental problem.
Yet again, they are trying to force the PvP issue on people who want nothing to do with it.
It's not PvP when both sides are not out looking for a fight!
You "pirates" may as well go blow up NPC pirates, you will get more of a challenge from them than you will indy's at the gates, or are you not out after a challenge? Isn't PvP supposed to be about the challenge of beating another well equiped opponent? Right?
"Trust No One" |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.08 20:26:00 -
[59]
Quote:
"3 seconds to lock a badger from 80km out with a Typhoon (lock range is 139km). Then the 4 1400mm with an 8.1x damage modifier can start firing. 5 Typhoons can 1 shot volley any industrial from outside sentry gun range and run from any force capable of unseating 5 Typhoons, which is likely to be greater than what most people can summon. That's on Chaos now"
The whole point is...
Pirates should not be able to do this in 0.4 space in the first place!
Concord needs a prescence in these 0.4-0.1 systems (ceratin number of patrol ships to watch gates, etc depending on sec rating of the system).
It's total Bull**** that griefers can do this now, why make it easier for them to camp more gates with less people?
The system is total crap the way it works now, and if what I'm hearing about what is on chaos now is true, CCP really did not do a damn thing to fix the fundamental problem.
Yet again, they are trying to force the PvP issue on people who want nothing to do with it.
It's not PvP when both sides are not out looking for a fight!
You "pirates" may as well go blow up NPC pirates, you will get more of a challenge from them than you will indy's at the gates, or are you not out after a challenge? Isn't PvP supposed to be about the challenge of beating another well equiped opponent? Right?
That's what PvP is supposed to be about, yes. Getting a challenge from beating another well equipped opponent.
Piracy is supposed to be about getting paid.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.08 21:10:00 -
[60]
/em sighs
Jash - You still havent given a reason why gates guns should be removed.
No point waffling on about pot-shotting from 80km when you can't webify or scramble from that range and people can use muons or ecm to get away (warp if not jump).
There is no way to escape a couple of frigates camping on top of the gate because there are no guns to keep them away.
(as your discovered on chaos but 'forgot' to mention here)
And we arent talking about just industrials, were talking any ship thats solo, including battleships... no way to blast your way out of trouble because the gate wont let you jump (aggression) so all you can do is turn around and head out of the warp field and warp away.
This is not a suitable situation for travel within empire space and nothing you have said has even come close to giving a legitimate reason why they should remove the gate guns.
You have just (very ironically) shown you can still pirate around the gate guns ... so.... erm... you know.. there goes your entire "oh but there should be some risk to travel in empire routes" arguement also.
All that appears to be left is a way to absoltuely ensure that nobody can ever get away by allowing frigate to man 0.4 and lower gates thereby stopping any and all solo travel irrespective of ship type. (you just your other 3 buddies in their typhoons for firepower)
Thanks for proving my entire point though - its appreciated. 
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