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PETITION: No SP gain from injectors for 80mil+ characters

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Arithron 107th Suicide Kings Nihilists Social Club 23	Posted - 2016.01.19 19:47:31 - [31] - Quote Sigras wrote: Dr Cedric wrote: It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better. I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong... Right now the 100M+ SP players are a rare commodity; the ability to say to a random person in my fleet "go get your HIC" instead of having to say "who can fly a HIC?" is a big deal. Right now those players are a rare commodity because the only way to get up to that amount of SP is to train for it, but after the patch that's all going to change. What once was rare will now be common place, and I guarantee that this change will be reflected in the prices at the character bazaar. TL;DR yes, it does effect you; it makes your character less rare and therefore less valuable. Also, you forgot that characters will always have a high value as long as peeps buy SP- as can buy a character and squeeze all SP out.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2240	Posted - 2016.01.19 21:05:46 - [32] - Quote Sigras wrote: Right now those players are a rare commodity because the only way to get up to that amount of SP is to train for it, but after the patch that's all going to change. What once was rare will now be common place, and I guarantee that this change will be reflected in the prices at the character bazaar. It will even go so far as to people asking (I will certainly be one of them because screw you and I don't like you anyways) to buy a skill injector if you cannot fly a ship/use a module and train that ship/module right this moment. People have one less excuse to not have something trained and people like me one more lever to make people feel bad. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2234	Posted - 2016.01.19 22:20:41 - [33] - Quote NUBIARN wrote: you think ganking is bad now wait till you can farm some sp of a char you have unused, build a new high sec gank char with the sp, get to -10, now extract sp and build new char rinse and repeat !! no more concequenses for, risk v reward gone. high sec will be fubbed really quickly and no high sec equals This is not likely. You cannot extract SP below 5m skill points. So, what you are suggesting cannot happen, unless someone is willing to throw away 5m SP each time they start a new gank character. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Mifune The Rusty Muskets 7	Posted - 2016.01.20 01:40:10 - [34] - Quote Doddy wrote: Arithron wrote: I have a lot of SP. I spent a lot of time and RL$ getting to this point. I'd like to think that CCP values me as a dedicated player and will take some small steps to protect my loyalty and dedication. In saying this, 80mil+ is enough SP to have a highly skilled and specialised character. I don't personally think we should be able to benefit by buying more SP. After all, we are still here because we are successful in game and have a crapload of iskies- no level playing field if the feature is intended to give newer players a benefit. Vets don't need to be able to spend isk (of which we have a lot) to get even further ahead. Sign below if you agree with there being an upper limit for SP injector use! Not signed. You didn't spend any time getting your SP. you only spent RL $. Now you are upset because someone else might spend their RL $ (or in game skill gained isk) to catch up with you (at a far, far more expensive rate) and so you are crying. This is because you love pay to win, at least once you have already paid for it and others haven't. Maybe if you don't like it you should go play a more pay to win orientated game. Truth is this measure will make eve less pay to win, not more. Currently your SP is directly related to the RL wealth you pump into the game. With this change it will be possible for some people to gain SP via being good at the game. Any way you look at it that is making the game less pay to win, and the tears of pay to win players like the op are delicious. Do I think there should be some caps in place to stop abuse, absolutely, but overall I applaud this reduction of eves pay to win nature (which has always been there since day 1, no cash no SP). I am sorry but if you think eve "started" as pay to win you should look up the definition. Until the ultimately stupid idea of the character bazaar there was "zero" ability to use real life money to jump ahead in skill points. You could buy +5 implants like every single other player in the game with the same risk / reward tied to them. The only way to build SP originally was through TIME invested. This whole argument revolves around breaking the bond between time invested to skill points. If you look at the nature of pay 2 win games they give players the option to cut in line if they are willing to pay the cost. That is exactly what is happening here and to see it any other way is just a misrepresentation of the facts. I do not expect everyone to be logical enough to understand this concept but I thought I would at least try to bring some common sense to the debate.
Valkin Mordirc 1841	Posted - 2016.01.20 04:56:50 - [35] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Loyalty doesn't pay bills. This is incorrect. Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open. +1 to this, I run a local store where I live, and making sure my customers are happy with the product I provide. And making sure that they want to order again, is incredibly important. I take care of my regulars because they take care of me and my own employee's. If a customer is angry or mad, I don't care, I will throw so much free **** at them because I know if I do, they'll order from me again, and again. That's why Loyalty is important for any business. However my business is not as large as CCP, but I know that when you do make changes, you will very vocal minority who will complain. The reason why they are so vocal though, is because they know that you are listening. Which is in fact a good thing. CCP's Player base knows that they listen. `#DeleteTheWeak`
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2507	Posted - 2016.01.20 05:07:22 - [36] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Loyalty doesn't pay bills. This is incorrect. Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open. But I'm pretty sure bars don't go under because the owner added popcorn as a new offering over the already available peanuts...
Iain Cariaba 2389	Posted - 2016.01.20 05:09:10 - [37] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: CCP's Player base knows that they listen. I question this some times. Quite a few of their recent new features were not received well by the players in testjng, but they were implemented anyway. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 323	Posted - 2016.01.20 05:28:42 - [38] - Quote Valkin Mordirc wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Khan Wrenth wrote: Loyalty doesn't pay bills. This is incorrect. Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open. +1 to this, I run a local store where I live, and making sure my customers are happy with the product I provide. And making sure that they want to order again, is incredibly important. I take care of my regulars because they take care of me and my own employee's. If a customer is angry or mad, I don't care, I will throw so much free **** at them because I know if I do, they'll order from me again, and again. That's why Loyalty is important for any business. However my business is not as large as CCP, but I know that when you do make changes, you will very vocal minority who will complain. The reason why they are so vocal though, is because they know that you are listening. Which is in fact a good thing. CCP's Player base knows that they listen. Listening yes, heeding no.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 394	Posted - 2016.01.20 12:59:20 - [39] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: But I'm pretty sure bars don't go under because the owner added popcorn as a new offering over the already available peanuts... Precisely. And Iain Cariaba wrote: This is incorrect. Anyone who's ever ran a business can tell you that it's the regulars who pay the bills. The goal of any good customer oriented business is to entice people to return and spend more money. I've spent some time working in bars and can tell you the weekenders provide extra profits, but it's the requlars that keep the doors open. This is incorrect. What you are describing is customer service. Loyalty is when you make a mistake and your regulars forgive you for it, like how the online numbers seem to be climbing again with a lot of the recent changes I've already said customer service is important but at the end of the day, CCP needs their dollar. You said you worked in bars, so I'll use Cheers as an example. Sam Malone is offering dishes of popcorn as an alternative to the peanuts at each table. Norm disapproves. Does Cheers go under because Norm disapproves? Maybe yes. Maybe no. Norm is loyal to Cheers and does spend a lot of time at the bar, but the bar is mostly empty most of the day. If offering popcorn brings in Dr. Fraiser Crane and Lilith more often, plus a bunch of their friends, then Cheers still has a net positive income despite the lack of Norm. Every business is going to make mistakes and I'm not going to say that CCP is perfect, but as a business seeking profit, I have to assume they've put some time and money researching an idea before implementing it. They could be wrong. You could be completely and utterly right. But Fraiser, Lilith, and their friends might become the new loyal customers you would so readily covet. Having one or two loyal customers and having a struggling business doesn't compute when you have the opportunity to bring in a dozen or hundreds of new and loyal customers by changing. It's the nature of business. If you never change, you never grow, and probably fold. The game (which I just lost) changed hundreds of times before I ever joined. If I played on day one, I may not have been impressed and may never have been a paying customer. Many people here may share in that. What about you? When did you start? Was it day one? If you bought into this game on day one and it was just completely awful, would you have come back in five years to try again? If you did, or if you would, and found it better, would you have paid any heed to a person in your current shoes proclaiming this isn't the game he signed up for? Or would you just enjoy the game you found, rather than the game he lamented over losing? Business IS risk, and you have to make educated gambles to get ahead and expand. This game is radically different from even when I started, and it seems to only be getting better. If you feel betrayed as a loyal customer, pull your money out. But it is their business decision to make, and if they make a change that brings in five people to replace you, then your loyalty and desire to have them cater to it would have cost them money and growth. Never overestimate your importance as a customer. CCP hopefully put accurate research into this idea and they made the right customer service decision. If it wins over more players, more power to them. If it flops, more power to you and all those in your camp. It will be your victory. But either way this heads, I support CCP's initiative. It's their business to run, it's their business to lose. That said, I reserve the right to be annoyed if/when they remove learning implants rather than overhauling the jump clone system. I never said you couldn't be upset with a decision, just that it's CCP's decision to make. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Loki Feiht Feiht Family Clan 207	Posted - 2016.01.20 13:05:06 - [40] - Quote What holds true for new players should hold for old, loyal players, granted there are some issues with SP trading but I don't think a skill point ceiling is one of them. More NPC - Randomly Generated Modular Content-áthread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220858

Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 328	Posted - 2016.01.20 13:44:15 - [41] - Quote Khan Wrenth wrote: Loyalty doesn't pay bills. At the end of the workday, these are people who are working real jobs, have real homes with real expenses to take care of, and need real payment in order to survive in the global economy. Your loyalty and undying grattitude does not pay their bills or send their kids to college. I was completely flabbergasted after reading this post from you. Clearly you've never been in business for yourself before or been in any managerial position. Otherwise you would've already learned after failing miserably that without loyalty and dedication for the regular customers, no business cannot sustain themselves for very long. Sure after selling out your loyal customer base, you could manage to get by ......for a short while but after everything settles down you're gonna hit rock bottom. My advice for you is to never ever try to start a business for yourself, at least not while you still have this mentality.
Dr Cedric Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor 132	Posted - 2016.01.20 15:35:54 - [42] - Quote Sigras wrote: Dr Cedric wrote: It doesn't really affect me or my 140M SP, and if it adds players and content, then all the better. I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong... Right now the 100M+ SP players are a rare commodity; the ability to say to a random person in my fleet "go get your HIC" instead of having to say "who can fly a HIC?" is a big deal. Right now those players are a rare commodity because the only way to get up to that amount of SP is to train for it, but after the patch that's all going to change. What once was rare will now be common place, and I guarantee that this change will be reflected in the prices at the character bazaar. TL;DR yes, it does effect you; it makes your character less rare and therefore less valuable. Less valuable to whom? I find my character very valuable... and as far as I can see, I am the only one who can really place a value on it. I have no plans to sell my character, never have and never will. So, as far as value... I have the same value as I ever have, no more no less. The fact that some other player can/will have the same amount of skill points as I do makes absolutely no difference to my "value" because I'm the only one who cares about me! Cedric
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 10344	Posted - 2016.01.20 21:13:47 - [43] - Quote OP, can I have your SP when you ragequit (and your stuff, too) when this proposal is completely ignored? Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
Arithron 107th Suicide Kings Nihilists Social Club 25	Posted - 2016.01.20 23:17:38 - [44] - Quote Doddy wrote: Arithron wrote: I have a lot of SP. I spent a lot of time and RL$ getting to this point. I'd like to think that CCP values me as a dedicated player and will take some small steps to protect my loyalty and dedication. In saying this, 80mil+ is enough SP to have a highly skilled and specialised character. I don't personally think we should be able to benefit by buying more SP. After all, we are still here because we are successful in game and have a crapload of iskies- no level playing field if the feature is intended to give newer players a benefit. Vets don't need to be able to spend isk (of which we have a lot) to get even further ahead. Sign below if you agree with there being an upper limit for SP injector use! Not signed. You didn't spend any time getting your SP. you only spent RL $. Now you are upset because someone else might spend their RL $ (or in game skill gained isk) to catch up with you (at a far, far more expensive rate) and so you are crying. This is because you love pay to win, at least once you have already paid for it and others haven't. Maybe if you don't like it you should go play a more pay to win orientated game. Truth is this measure will make eve less pay to win, not more. Currently your SP is directly related to the RL wealth you pump into the game. With this change it will be possible for some people to gain SP via being good at the game. Any way you look at it that is making the game less pay to win, and the tears of pay to win players like the op are delicious. Do I think there should be some caps in place to stop abuse, absolutely, but overall I applaud this reduction of eves pay to win nature (which has always been there since day 1, no cash no SP). Did you actually read what I wrote? I said that anyone over 80mil SP should not benefit from buying SP (which ofc includes me ya noob).
Djafyh Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel 0	Posted - 2016.01.21 07:11:24 - [45] - Quote No way to this. I say this is just the start, get rid of subscription and get more people into the game. That's what's needed, more people in ships they feel can compete with. More fleets, more content. Giving newer people a option to not be overwhelmed by what they can't fly. Sure it'll be a turkey shoot for awhile but they'll get better, usually only takes a few good kills to get hooked. I can't see any problems with this.
Iain Cariaba 2400	Posted - 2016.01.21 07:14:01 - [46] - Quote Djafyh wrote: No way to this. I say this is just the start, get rid of subscription and get more people into the game. That's what's needed, more people in ships they feel can compete with. More fleets, more content. Giving newer people a option to not be overwhelmed by what they can't fly. Sure it'll be a turkey shoot for awhile but they'll get better, usually only takes a few good kills to get hooked. I can't see any problems with this. The fact that you don't see any problems with driving the final nail into EvE's coffin is, itself, a problem. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2248	Posted - 2016.01.21 09:56:52 - [47] - Quote Djafyh wrote: More fleets, more content. Giving newer people a option to not be overwhelmed by what they can't fly. Sure it'll be a turkey shoot for awhile but they'll get better, usually only takes a few good kills to get hooked. Not to be overwhelmed by what they can't fly? You mean they won't be overwhelmed by the 1,000 USD ships flown by IRL rich people (Rain, I know you will.) they will encounter with their Rifter they get for free? Sometimes, the denseness of people is utterly staggering. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 331	Posted - 2016.01.21 10:53:55 - [48] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Djafyh wrote: No way to this. I say this is just the start, get rid of subscription and get more people into the game. That's what's needed, more people in ships they feel can compete with. More fleets, more content. Giving newer people a option to not be overwhelmed by what they can't fly. Sure it'll be a turkey shoot for awhile but they'll get better, usually only takes a few good kills to get hooked. I can't see any problems with this. The fact that you don't see any problems with driving the final nail into EvE's coffin is, itself, a problem. The genuine Eve players will be gone and replaced by people like this. Eve just won't be the same ever again.......sigh
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1044	Posted - 2016.01.22 00:43:17 - [49] - Quote Djafyh wrote: No way to this. I say this is just the start, get rid of subscription and get more people into the game. That's what's needed, more people in ships they feel can compete with. More fleets, more content. Giving newer people a option to not be overwhelmed by what they can't fly. Sure it'll be a turkey shoot for awhile but they'll get better, usually only takes a few good kills to get hooked. I can't see any problems with this. You must have an incredible foresight then. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 1224	Posted - 2016.01.22 06:42:05 - [50] - Quote Despite my disagreement with the idea of trading SP, it's happening. Since it's happening, I want to be able to use it. So, I'm not gonna let some random new guy with no clue, or an alt that is intended to kill me, attain easy SP and me not get in on it. Yes, this does make me a bit of a hypocrite in hating something but going to use it anyway. .. But, it's kinda like gate camps... Just because most people hate getting hit by a gate camp doesn't mean they won't join a gate camp.

Dr Cedric Independent Miners Corporation Care Factor 135	Posted - 2016.01.25 15:12:48 - [51] - Quote Has anybody mentioned adding a tab to the Character Info window? Perhaps injected skill points should be listed easily somewhere? That way, you know the 5-day old that just jumped into your system really is flying cloaky Tengu and is getting ready to hot-drop you! Cedric
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2515	Posted - 2016.01.25 16:37:34 - [52] - Quote Dr Cedric wrote: Has anybody mentioned adding a tab to the Character Info window? Perhaps injected skill points should be listed easily somewhere? That way, you know the 5-day old that just jumped into your system really is flying cloaky Tengu and is getting ready to hot-drop you! Why should we know about injected skills but not trained ones? It makes no sense. You will be adding SP to a pool, not skills directly.
Thorian Baalnorn Bad Influence I N G L O R I O U S 35	Posted - 2016.01.25 16:44:05 - [53] - Quote I believe when plexes came out people thought that was going to be the end of eve. It wasnt. On SP specifically, I believe the way the system will work is people will have to train up sp on characters and the limit is 5 mil to pull sp. meaning about 90-120 days invested in a sp alt before you can start pulling sp. So its not like a buch of people are going to create new characters plex it for a month and pull all the sp. SP in eve isnt as important as training in other games. It gives you a slight edge at higher levels and that is working as intended. One of the biggest problems with MMOs is the "vets" can slaughter everyone in the game. Meaning everyone rushes to the end game because that is the only point in which you are even viable. In eve you are viable with low sp and high sp. Sp is a system that allows you to use tools in the game to do things. you still have to have the skill and ability to do them. And we do not know what CCP has in store. They are doing some major things in eve. These may bring a lot of new skills in and they may feel for their expansion plan of eve that the current rate of training may be to slow for some players. I am sure the sp injection fits into a long term expansion goal. People always panic over big changes like this. And it doesnt have the huge negative effect on their gameplay they thought it would. If people want to shoot their characters up with sp, let them go for it. Its going to make no more difference than the difference between a 80 mil sp pilot and a 20 mil sp pilot does now. Supply and demand will even out how much its used. If there is a lot of demand and the price is high then people will create alts to use for SP. If their is to much SP being pumped in the game the price of sp will fall and it will no longer be more profitable than just buying and selling plexes. I would use an injector here and there but only if i thought the price was worth it. I wouldnt spend billions of isk to save 30-60 days of training time though. Shooting Structures = PVP Mining
Kappa 4Head Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2016.02.01 15:38:24 - [54] - Quote loyal players can suck my fat ****
ISD Fractal isd community communications liaisons 880	Posted - 2016.02.01 16:50:47 - [55] - Quote Quote: 34. Posting of inappropriate content is prohibited. The posting of pornography, discriminatory remarks which are sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive as well as excessive obscene or vulgar language, posts which discuss or illustrate illegal activity, or an instance of providing links to sites that contain any of the aforementioned is strictly prohibited on the EVE Online forums. A post has been removed for the above reason. ISD Fractal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department


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