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scan a ship out of 14.3 direct scan range

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Blood Flint Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.01.19 12:34:46 - [1] - Quote o/ Is it possible to scan a ship using scanner probes, which will be always out of 14.3 direct scan range of a target ship? Yesterday I had an experience when I was scanned in a mission in a 250mm sign tengu using rage HAMs with no scanner probes appeared on direct scan. What do you think and are there any suggestions for improvements and escaping that? ty, fly safe
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 13621	Posted - 2016.01.19 12:54:23 - [2] - Quote iv been able to get a warpable sig in one pass with combat probes. the trick is using dscan to find the target with as much precision as possible so you can drop the probes in as tight and accurate a group as possible. this is easier the larger the sig and particularly easy if theirs a mobile tractor present (those things are like beacons) were you in low,high,null? was it a mission or anomaly? these things effect how easy it can be to find someone. watch local. Edit: you can also use bookmarks but this is a long and laborious process Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Blood Flint Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:09:58 - [3] - Quote it was in null on a mission with acceleration gates how does this effect? hmm, and how can i use bookmarks to avoid that?
Angel T Hunter Brutor Tribe 39	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:11:07 - [4] - Quote More or less what Ralph said. If you know where target is you can get a 100% read when probing.. takes skills though..
Blood Flint Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:13:26 - [5] - Quote On the contrary - what scan probes formation should I use to scan like that without my scanner probes being noticed?
Angel T Hunter Brutor Tribe 39	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:13:43 - [6] - Quote Blood Flint wrote: it was in null on a mission with acceleration gates how does this effect? hmm, and how can i use bookmarks to avoid that? no BM's help if they got a d-scan read on you, as far as I know.. Only way to stay safe in Eve os if you are docked in a station. In space, anything can happen..
Cherri Minoa IronPig Sev3rance 146	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:54:35 - [7] - Quote People who train the skills, fit the equipment and - most importantly - practice over and over again can get incredibly fast results. I was sitting in a safe spot in a Caracal some while back when a small gang of "reds" entered system. They managed to scan me and land on me before I finished typing an intel report - so under 30 seconds. Given that they had to warp to me, I reckon the guy got his scan result in 10 to 20 seconds. I take my hat off to people who can do that, but I also quote it here as a warning of just how careful you have to be. "If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson
Memphis Baas 941	Posted - 2016.01.19 13:54:39 - [8] - Quote What they're saying is that the guy DID have scanner probes out, just in and out so fast that you didn't notice them. He narrowed down your position using directional d-scan and his own safepoints, and then quick probes in and out to get the warp-in. With accelleration gates he would have warped at the gate, not straight to you, but he could have used the gates to follow your mission into whatever pocket you were, cloaked.
Blood Flint Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.01.19 14:05:02 - [9] - Quote That was a lachesis, which I can't see on direct... May I specify the question - can you scan a ship using just more than 8 au scanner probes, but only 16/32/64 au?
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 13622	Posted - 2016.01.19 14:29:48 - [10] - Quote not at the sig radius of a tengu no. as memphis said, this was a killed prober who figured out roughly where you were and hit you with one pass of probes if done correctly the probes are only in space for a couple of seconds. running missions is an active process and has a large enough margin for error (on the hunters side) and you can easily miss them whilst you are locking targets or something similar. we aren't saying you weren't paying attention (as evident form the lack of a tengu loss on your kill board), we are saying whomever caught you was damn good. Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17372	Posted - 2016.01.19 15:10:23 - [11] - Quote Stay aligned. If you're in 0.0 doing pirate missions, it's a good ideal to accept multiple missions so you can constantly move between them. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Solomar Espersei Quality Assurance 575	Posted - 2016.01.19 15:10:47 - [12] - Quote They very likely determined your proximity to a planet (in most instances, anomalies, DED, etc will spawn within 8 au of a celestial), dropped probes and near-instantly positioned them more than 15 au from any celestial. Then after refining their d scan results on you, they regrouped their probes to about 4-8 au range (less if they were able to get a better read on your position). Assuming high skills and implants, they might nab a 100% on the first pass, but it likely took 2, maybe even 3 since you were in a T3. Still, the probes could have been on grid for maybe 20 seconds (less if they were a bit lucky) and it's easy to miss them. Other possibilities, you say ou were in a mission, but is it possible that you were in an anomaly or DED site? Is it possible that you had dropped a depot or mtu nearby? Quality Assurance
ISD Fractal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 743	Posted - 2016.01.19 16:59:02 - [13] - Quote Looks like a very skilled combat prober to me. You can drop probes off d-scan, then figure out where the target is and align the probes there. If you align them properly, you can get them in one scan and quickly pull the probes from space. It's what, under 10 seconds for probes to scan? A momentary lack of d-scan spamming would have caused you to miss it. ISD Fractal Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Ginnie School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 68	Posted - 2016.01.19 17:29:29 - [14] - Quote Fascinating discussion! I use the D-scanner to see what's around me, what types of ships, if they aren't cloaked of course, are out there and to see if anything in generally moving towards me. Combat Scanner Probes are definitely Red Flags...time to GTFO All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Edgar Allan Poe
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1108	Posted - 2016.01.19 22:49:48 - [15] - Quote Cherri Minoa wrote: People who train the skills, fit the equipment and - most importantly - practice over and over again can get incredibly fast results. I was sitting in a safe spot in a Caracal some while back when a small gang of "reds" entered system. They managed to scan me and land on me before I finished typing an intel report - so under 30 seconds. Given that they had to warp to me, I reckon the guy got his scan result in 10 to 20 seconds. I take my hat off to people who can do that, but I also quote it here as a warning of just how careful you have to be. Cherri in a situation like that I would be very very suspicious that the red fleet had a neut or blue cloaky fleet mate sitting there cloaked watching you.
Cherri Minoa IronPig Sev3rance 148	Posted - 2016.01.19 23:03:45 - [16] - Quote ergherhdfgh wrote: Cherri Minoa wrote: People who train the skills, fit the equipment and - most importantly - practice over and over again can get incredibly fast results. I was sitting in a safe spot in a Caracal some while back when a small gang of "reds" entered system. They managed to scan me and land on me before I finished typing an intel report - so under 30 seconds. Given that they had to warp to me, I reckon the guy got his scan result in 10 to 20 seconds. I take my hat off to people who can do that, but I also quote it here as a warning of just how careful you have to be. Cherri in a situation like that I would be very very suspicious that the red fleet had a neut or blue cloaky fleet mate sitting there cloaked watching you. That can certainly happen, but it wasn't what happened in this case. I didn't want to complicate it with all the details, however, for the sake of completeness ... It was before the grid size was increased, and although I called it a safe it was more accurately an off-grid tactical about 1,000km from a busy regional gate in null-sec. The reds knew there was a good chance of traffic on the gate, so they entered from a different gate and immediately dropped probes on the regional gate. I was close enough that they were able to scan me on the first pass - wrong place, wrong time. It also has to be said that their prober is exceptionally fast, and all credit to him. "If I had been censured every time I have run my ship, or fleets under my command, into great danger, I should have long ago been out of the Service" - Horatio Nelson
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5644	Posted - 2016.01.19 23:12:12 - [17] - Quote ISD Fractal wrote: Looks like a very skilled combat prober to me. You can drop probes off d-scan, then figure out where the target is and align the probes there. If you align them properly, you can get them in one scan and quickly pull the probes from space. It's what, under 10 seconds for probes to scan? A momentary lack of d-scan spamming would have caused you to miss it. IIRC D-scan has a 6 second cooldown and probing can be brought down to 7.5 seconds plus the time the probes are in warp. So the advantage is with the person running the mission, but it is very small. Depending upon fit, your Tengu might be quite easy to probe too. How hard you are to probe is governed by sigrad divided by sensor strength - a missioning Tengu usually has +sigrad mods from shield extenders, and no boosts to signal strength. By contrast, 'Slippery Pete' fits (with multiple ECCM modules) are ridiculously hard to probe. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17380	Posted - 2016.01.19 23:47:39 - [18] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: ISD Fractal wrote: Looks like a very skilled combat prober to me. You can drop probes off d-scan, then figure out where the target is and align the probes there. If you align them properly, you can get them in one scan and quickly pull the probes from space. It's what, under 10 seconds for probes to scan? A momentary lack of d-scan spamming would have caused you to miss it. IIRC D-scan has a 6 second cooldown and probing can be brought down to 7.5 seconds plus the time the probes are in warp. So the advantage is with the person running the mission, but it is very small. Depending upon fit, your Tengu might be quite easy to probe too. How hard you are to probe is governed by sigrad divided by sensor strength - a missioning Tengu usually has +sigrad mods from shield extenders, and no boosts to signal strength. By contrast, 'Slippery Pete' fits (with multiple ECCM modules) are ridiculously hard to probe. When i was doing Angel missions in Curse, the sine qua non was the alt in the boosting Loki with the sig radius and sensor strength links fitted. Combine that with a LG Halo set, and you could get your Tengu below the "needs a virtue set" threshold easily enough. The Halos also help with the speed/sig tanking, which is a nice bonus. But dang, did I hate the Minmatar faction rats that hit you with TPs. And you have a covops cloaked Loki to do your scouting for you, which is nice. It can also sit 100km off the gate and squad warp you, which can shave 1-2 ticks from the "click jump" to "in warp" time. Made a bunch of ISk doing those missions, never lost a Tengu (or a Loki) either PS If anyone wants to buy some Dramiel PCs, PM me. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Netan MalDoran Last Garrison 183	Posted - 2016.01.20 04:46:46 - [19] - Quote Angel T Hunter wrote: Blood Flint wrote: it was in null on a mission with acceleration gates how does this effect? hmm, and how can i use bookmarks to avoid that? no BM's help if they got a d-scan read on you, as far as I know.. Only way to stay safe in Eve os if you are docked in a station. In space, anything can happen.. Theyre referring to the fact that the hunter can drop BM's while in warp near the estimated location of the player to find them since grids are so big now. "Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was! Falcon's truth
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 13643	Posted - 2016.01.20 09:24:59 - [20] - Quote Netan MalDoran wrote: Angel T Hunter wrote: Blood Flint wrote: it was in null on a mission with acceleration gates how does this effect? hmm, and how can i use bookmarks to avoid that? no BM's help if they got a d-scan read on you, as far as I know.. Only way to stay safe in Eve os if you are docked in a station. In space, anything can happen.. Theyre referring to the fact that the hunter can drop BM's while in warp near the estimated location of the player to find them since grids are so big now. yeah sorry i didn't explain this better. you could always do this, goes something like this , the larger grids just leave a larger margin for error Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Cara Forelli Meticulously Indifferent 1475	Posted - 2016.01.21 02:15:36 - [21] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: IIRC D-scan has a 6 second cooldown and probing can be brought down to 7.5 seconds plus the time the probes are in warp. So the advantage is with the person running the mission, but it is very small. D-scan cooldown is quite a bit lower than 6 seconds. It does look like the "recalibrating" message stays on-screen for about 6 seconds though. Still pretty easy to miss a skilled prober unless you are a D-scan addict. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
Fat Buddah Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2016.01.21 04:37:26 - [22] - Quote another possibility is that you were d-scanning with a wrong filter.
Blood Flint Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.01.21 12:44:03 - [23] - Quote no, the filter was right, i have special for that with NPCs and probes just. well, it's clear now, i need to make an experiment with myself and try to scan me with an alt
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 731	Posted - 2016.01.21 15:54:09 - [24] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: as memphis said, this was a killed prober who figured out roughly where you were and hit you with one pass of probes if done correctly the probes are only in space for a couple of seconds. Not to pick on Ralph specifically he just offers a good place to start with my thoughts. I hear these magical claims of probes being visible on D-Scan for a second or two all the time and all of them fail miserably at accounting for the realities of the scan mechanics. So here are some basics that anyone can check by doing the relative math. Minimum scan cycle possible using the best of everything last time I calculated it was around 5 to 6 seconds so the probes are visible on D-Scan for at least that long. Travel time to the scan location and then back to the ship, or off grid will add an additional 2-4 seconds to that and the probes are visible while they are traveling to and from. So we have a window of roughly 7-10 seconds where the probes will be visible. In theory there are some specific cases where travel time for the probes could be reduced and that would shorten the time they are visible by maybe another second, so worst case for you the target is that you would have about 6-8 seconds where the probes were visible.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 13664	Posted - 2016.01.21 17:21:15 - [25] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: as memphis said, this was a killed prober who figured out roughly where you were and hit you with one pass of probes if done correctly the probes are only in space for a couple of seconds. Not to pick on Ralph specifically he just offers a good place to start with my thoughts. I hear these magical claims of probes being visible on D-Scan for a second or two all the time and all of them fail miserably at accounting for the realities of the scan mechanics. So here are some basics that anyone can check by doing the relative math. Minimum scan cycle possible using the best of everything last time I calculated it was around 5 to 6 seconds so the probes are visible on D-Scan for at least that long. Travel time to the scan location and then back to the ship, or off grid will add an additional 2-4 seconds to that and the probes are visible while they are traveling to and from. So we have a window of roughly 7-10 seconds where the probes will be visible. In theory there are some specific cases where travel time for the probes could be reduced and that would shorten the time they are visible by maybe another second, so worst case for you the target is that you would have about 6-8 seconds where the probes were visible. 6-10 secons is what i would class a a couple of seconds, granted it's not a literal couple but its still i minute amount of time to catch on there is a bloodthirsty savaged about to descend upon you Better the Devil you know. =]\|[=
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 10353	Posted - 2016.01.21 19:08:36 - [26] - Quote I laugh my little socks off when people scan me down in low sec when I run Burner missions, only to be either I) confronted with an acceleration gate that they can't operate or, if they can fit through it, II) when the Burner targets them and blasts them to smithereens Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
ISD Fractal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 799	Posted - 2016.01.22 15:51:55 - [27] - Quote I find 6-10 seconds is easy to lose track of when you're running a PvE site. You start targeting some NPCs, start moving towards whoever, drop your MTU, turn on your stuff and next thing you know 10 seconds have passed. ISD Fractal Ensign Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 732	Posted - 2016.01.23 15:16:51 - [28] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: 6-10 secons is what i would class a a couple of seconds, granted it's not a literal couple but its still i minute amount of time to catch on there is a bloodthirsty savaged about to descend upon you So true. I deal with new players a lot and they hear or read these 1 or 2 second claims and because they do not know better they actually believe them. It was simply my intent to clarify the situation with something that resembles a real in game possibility istead of fiction. ISD Fractal wrote: I find 6-10 seconds is easy to lose track of when you're running a PvE site. You start targeting some NPCs, start moving towards whoever, drop your MTU, turn on your stuff and next thing you know 10 seconds have passed. Thank you for posting this it is a component of my thoughts that never made it into my post.

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