Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
163
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:50:00 -
[121] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: Comments: - I tend to find battleships to be kinda rare - this could be a matter of environment or timezone. Its true though - Amarr BS are the biggest source of recognizable EM damage in the game. They're also supremely unable to hit both ships so it doesn't matter much. :) - Its been damn near a year since I saw a Rokh in space... its probably been 2-3 since I saw a Torp/Neut Rokh. - The Canes may or may not have been spouting EM damage. You can't use your own prejudice towards ammo to know that - I've found that I'm generally able to tank 2-3 Canes at a time so most of them are probably running Fusion, Barrage, or PP.
-Liang
(apologies in advance for these mails, I haven't actually lost a solo logi in a long while)
1. I see BS in lowsec all the time. Pretty much daily. 2. Yes, even heavy-neut Torp Rokhs. 3. I'm reasonably certain the Canes are firing EM because I know the pilots flying them, what they like to carry and what they keep stocked in their station.
Once again, not saying you are lying, but it's becoming increasingly clear to me that we're flying to regions with radically different metagames. Which is in turn influencing our opinions on ships, so I doubt we'll ever come to an agreement. |
Garr Earthbender
Quantum Cats Syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 03:16:00 -
[122] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Smiling Menace wrote: Think you missed this part in his post. It's not whether it's a good idea or even useful, the fact is people do make use of it irrespective of anything you might say about the bonus. So if some people use it, regardless of niche situations, then it can't be that useless.
I think this thread is more about those ships that have bonuses that are never used in any circumstance. Those bonuses need to be changed for something that might actually be useful without making these ships OP.
Also I would suggest making another thread rather than derail someone else's if you wish to debate this further.
If there is anything I have learned from this thread, its that someone, somewhere, is using whatever bonus you think is useless. And will defend it to the death as a useful bonus. -Liang
Seems useless is a subjective term.
/me still think the armor rep bonuses on the T2 transport ships are pretty useless still.... |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
169
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 04:13:00 -
[123] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Liang Nuren wrote: Comments: - I tend to find battleships to be kinda rare - this could be a matter of environment or timezone. Its true though - Amarr BS are the biggest source of recognizable EM damage in the game. They're also supremely unable to hit both ships so it doesn't matter much. :) - Its been damn near a year since I saw a Rokh in space... its probably been 2-3 since I saw a Torp/Neut Rokh. - The Canes may or may not have been spouting EM damage. You can't use your own prejudice towards ammo to know that - I've found that I'm generally able to tank 2-3 Canes at a time so most of them are probably running Fusion, Barrage, or PP.
-Liang
(apologies in advance for these mails, I haven't actually lost a solo logi in a long while) 1. I see BS in lowsec all the time. Pretty much daily. 2. Yes, even heavy-neut Torp Rokhs. 3. I'm reasonably certain the Canes are firing EM because I know the pilots flying them, what they like to carry and what they keep stocked in their station. Once again, not saying you are lying, but it's becoming increasingly clear to me that we're flying to regions with radically different metagames. Which is in turn influencing our opinions on ships, so I doubt we'll ever come to an agreement.
Aridia. Most of my "Oh ****, I tanked 30 guys in battleships and carriers" stories are from that region.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
ElCholo
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
25
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 06:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:The bulk of eve (myself included) have no problems with the scimitar as it is now.
Lies. Show me this signed petition from 51% of Eve saying that they agree with you. Otherwise you are just spouting **** out your ass. Quit making up facts to support your side of the argument when actual logic is obviously failing you.
Also.... I don't think that the Scimitar is underpowered. Not for what I use it for, for what my friends use it for, or for what my alliance uses it for. I do, however, feel that it could be improved upon for what it does to bring it in line with it's armor counterpart. IMHO, the scimitar is the weakest of the four Logi, and while it's not underpowered or a terrible ship by any means, the tracking link bonus is lost on it. Would I change this bonus to shield boost? I dunno. I would like to see it as a bonus to help it in the field that it is used in and not wasted on a bonus that is relegated to a niche activity by a few carebears when it could really shine at what is mostly used for in actual Eve play. (I say "actual" Eve play because Eve, at its heart, is a PvP game) This is my opinion, and while it might not be shared by everyone, and I won't claim it is shared by everyone, it is shared by everyone that I know and fly with / against. |
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 19:19:00 -
[125] - Quote
ElCholo wrote:Cambarus wrote:The bulk of eve (myself included) have no problems with the scimitar as it is now. Lies. Show me this signed petition from 51% of Eve saying that they agree with you. Otherwise you are just spouting **** out your ass. Quit making up facts to support your side of the argument when actual logic is obviously failing you. Also.... I don't think that the Scimitar is underpowered. Not for what I use it for, for what my friends use it for, or for what my alliance uses it for. I do, however, feel that it could be improved upon for what it does to bring it in line with it's armor counterpart. IMHO, the scimitar is the weakest of the four Logi, and while it's not underpowered or a terrible ship by any means, the tracking link bonus is lost on it. Would I change this bonus to shield boost? I dunno. I would like to see it as a bonus to help it in the field that it is used in and not wasted on a bonus that is relegated to a niche activity by a few carebears when it could really shine at what is mostly used for in actual Eve play. (I say "actual" Eve play because Eve, at its heart, is a PvP game) This is my opinion, and while it might not be shared by everyone, and I won't claim it is shared by everyone, it is shared by everyone that I know and fly with / against. Fair enough. I chose my words poorly, and it would be more accurate to say : The bulk of eve (myself included) do not believe that the scimi is underpowered, or in need of any major boosts.
As for the 51% comment, that's bullshit and you know it. Do you know what people are really, REALLY good at doing on these forums? Whining and bitching about anything that they think is sub-par (or overpowered, though the reasoning still tends to stem from their favourite ships being sub-par). Do you know how many threads I've seen about the scimi needing a boost? None. I also fly the scimi (though less often than the guardian or oneiros) and I feel it's in no need of a boost, nor do any of the people I know who fly it. Really, the only person I have EVER seen to claim that the scimi is flat out in need of a boost is Liang, and it REEKS of someone just wanting their favourite toy buffed. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
172
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 19:55:00 -
[126] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:the only person I have EVER seen to claim that the scimi is flat out in need of a boost is Liang, and it REEKS of someone just wanting their favourite toy buffed.
I don't even fly the Scim. Its hardly my favorite toy. -_- The reality of the situation is that you are the one defending a useless bonus to defend your favorite (overpowered) toy - Incursions. The truly hilarious thing is that there's no real evidence that TL Scims actually help.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 20:20:00 -
[127] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Cambarus wrote:the only person I have EVER seen to claim that the scimi is flat out in need of a boost is Liang, and it REEKS of someone just wanting their favourite toy buffed. I don't even fly the Scim. Its hardly my favorite toy. -_- The reality of the situation is that you are the one defending a useless bonus to defend your favorite (overpowered) toy - Incursions. The truly hilarious thing is that there's no real evidence that TL Scims actually help. -Liang I'm pretty sure I mentioned that replacing the 2 basilisks with 2 scims yielded the same time decrease as bringing along a friend in a second vindi, followed shortly after by me saying that I don't actually run sites any more, so that's 2 points in this rather short reply of yours that are flat out BS. But that's not the point. The point is you want the ship changed, whereas most everyone else is fine with it the way it is.
If you think it's useless, don't use it. Those of us who do not share your point of view will be just fine without you, honest. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
172
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 20:24:00 -
[128] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Cambarus wrote:the only person I have EVER seen to claim that the scimi is flat out in need of a boost is Liang, and it REEKS of someone just wanting their favourite toy buffed. I don't even fly the Scim. Its hardly my favorite toy. -_- The reality of the situation is that you are the one defending a useless bonus to defend your favorite (overpowered) toy - Incursions. The truly hilarious thing is that there's no real evidence that TL Scims actually help. -Liang I'm pretty sure I mentioned that replacing the 2 basilisks with 2 scims yielded the same time decrease as bringing along a friend in a second vindi, followed shortly after by me saying that I don't actually run sites any more, so that's 2 points in this rather short reply of yours that are flat out BS. But that's not the point. The point is you want the ship changed, whereas most everyone else is fine with it the way it is. If you think it's useless, don't use it. Those of us who do not share your point of view will be just fine without you, honest.
You also mentioned that people do it in half the time with the same reward with 8x the people. The TL scim is numerically guaranteed to make literally no difference at that point. I also note that you didn't try marauders with rapier support. You didn't spend time trying to figure out the best 4 ship setup.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 20:53:00 -
[129] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: You also mentioned that people do it in half the time with the same reward with 8x the people. The TL scim is numerically guaranteed to make literally no difference at that point. I also note that you didn't try marauders with rapier support. You didn't spend time trying to figure out the best 4 ship setup.
-Liang
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The only thing you got right in this paragraph was that I didn't spend time trying to figure out the best 4 ship setup, because I use 3 ships, not 4. But yes, I most certainly DID spend time figuring out the best setup, and if you believe otherwise than PLEASE, share with me your setup that performs better. And rapiers are completely useless, due to the long cycle time of TPs, and the fact that webs take TIME to slow down a target. That is, by the way, the main reason TLs are so nice in incursions, even as you bring in more people. A good fleet kills things fast enough not to have time to properly web it, which is why you see those zealot/t3 fleets sporting so many oneiros'.
Liang Nuren wrote:Ed: Also, you are flat ******* lying if you say that most people are "fine with the ship the way it is". Pretty much every thread that has ever come up about the link bonus on the Scim and Ony has decried its existence. EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT HAS DONE THIS HAS SAID THE SHIPS NEED A BOOST. Whats more - you know this. I never (ever) saw anyone ever say the link bonus was useful until Incursions was released. And those people aren't even using the damn thing - except in their minds. This isn't even about the link bonus any more, it's the ship itself. As I said before, the fact that there are people who use the bonus means that it is by it's very nature NOT a useless bonus.You think it needs a buff, and I honestly can't think of anyone outside this thread mentioning this before, whereas I can think of many, many people who use the scim and think it's just fine, even if they don't use the TL bonus. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
172
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 21:05:00 -
[130] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:This isn't even about the link bonus any more, it's the ship itself. As I said before, the fact that there are people who use the bonus means that it is by it's very nature NOT a useless bonus.You think it needs a buff, and I honestly can't think of anyone outside this thread mentioning this before, whereas I can think of many, many people who use the scim and think it's just fine, even if they don't use the TL bonus.
Every person that has ever suggested replacing the link bonus has suggested and supported boosting the ship.
You are lying.
-Liang
Ed: And there have been thousands of people (characters, at least) that suggested it. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
|
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 21:23:00 -
[131] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Cambarus wrote:This isn't even about the link bonus any more, it's the ship itself. As I said before, the fact that there are people who use the bonus means that it is by it's very nature NOT a useless bonus.You think it needs a buff, and I honestly can't think of anyone outside this thread mentioning this before, whereas I can think of many, many people who use the scim and think it's just fine, even if they don't use the TL bonus. Every person that has ever suggested replacing the link bonus has suggested and supported boosting the ship. You are lying. -Liang Ed: And there have been thousands of people (characters, at least) that suggested it. And where, pray tell, are these people? |
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
121
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 21:25:00 -
[132] - Quote
The initial concept of weapons in EVE was about flaws in the weapons and ship bonuses to compensate for them. The best example for this are the Tier 2 battleships:
Megathron - tracking bonus to compensate for poor weapon tracking Tempest - RoF bonus to compensate for low DPS Apocalypse - Cap use bonus to compensate the excessive cap use of lasers Raven - Missile flight time bonus to compensate the short range of torpedos
A lot of things changed since then, cruise missiles, T2 ammo and a lot of changes to the weapon systems. Still the amarr ships are quite powerful, a lot of ships have a damage or RoF bonus and not only a cap use bonus. On ships like Abaddon you have to decide if you go for tanking or an extreme amount of damage in your fitting, the same for a lot of other Amarr ships, but they are extremely useful. Also on a lot of T2 hulls EM is one of the weakest resistance types.
Amarr ships are fine and certainly don't need another buff, also the T2 ammo is extremely broken balancing wise and Scorch and Barrage certainly need a nerf. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
174
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 21:27:00 -
[133] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Cambarus wrote:This isn't even about the link bonus any more, it's the ship itself. As I said before, the fact that there are people who use the bonus means that it is by it's very nature NOT a useless bonus.You think it needs a buff, and I honestly can't think of anyone outside this thread mentioning this before, whereas I can think of many, many people who use the scim and think it's just fine, even if they don't use the TL bonus. Every person that has ever suggested replacing the link bonus has suggested and supported boosting the ship. You are lying. -Liang Ed: And there have been thousands of people (characters, at least) that suggested it. And where, pray tell, are these people?
You've been on these forums for a while now - you've seen the threads and claiming otherwise is you simply burying your head in the sand. Give it up bro - you have a totally indefensible position here. Just admit you didn't know as much about logis as you thought you did.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
174
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 21:28:00 -
[134] - Quote
Deviana Sevidon wrote:Raven - Missile flight time bonus to compensate the short range of torpedos
Torps and Cruise used to both be fairly long range.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
163
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 21:35:00 -
[135] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I never (ever) saw anyone ever say the link bonus was useful until Incursions was released.
i actually stole the TL scimi fit and concept off of old PL snipe hac scimis, no troll. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
174
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 21:40:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:I never (ever) saw anyone ever say the link bonus was useful until Incursions was released. i actually stole the TL scimi fit and concept off of old PL snipe hac scimis, no troll.
Cool story - I don't doubt it but I never saw it myself - and I have a fairly strong reputation as a forum *****. ;-)
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 00:58:00 -
[137] - Quote
The Scimitar mite have a few flaws compared to the Basilisk. It mite need some improvements like alittle more targeting range or PG or even moving some slots around to get more reps on highs.
But it dont need the bonus changed there support ships not tanking ships and I realy reather would not like to see all of them have a cap rep bonus.
The main reason that most people us a Basiliks over a Scimitar is for more reps on high. And something has to be better at it mite as well be the Basilisk becouse the Scimitar is smaller Sig and faster it can gtfo faster keep range easyer then the Basilisk.
But it can not out rep the Basilisk.
The only real question here is it better to give up remote rep for cap transfer or give up tank for TL's?
Another thing that has not been pointed out here is the Scimitar is good in mix tank fleets. Say you have mainly a Armor tanked fleet other then the Caldari jamming ships that are shield tanked you can easly armor tank the Scimitar that is there only for the Jamming ships to begin with.
So it realy comes down to how you set your fleet up to run weather or not the Scimitar is lacking.
Edit: As for the TL bonus probly get used alittle less often then the cap transfer bonus only becouse cap transfer is a must have for longer PVP engagments and TL is only nice to have. But nice to have is a hole world of differnce from total crap to have. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
176
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 02:28:00 -
[138] - Quote
Rip Minner wrote:The Scimitar mite have a few flaws compared to the Basilisk. It mite need some improvements like alittle more targeting range or PG or even moving some slots around to get more reps on highs.
It might be reasonable to go 5 highs/3 lows as long as they gave it appropriately larger capacitor and fittings. Using 4 fitting mods to get 4 large RRs is a bit ... hilarious. :P
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 02:29:00 -
[139] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: You've been on these forums for a while now - you've seen the threads and claiming otherwise is you simply burying your head in the sand. Give it up bro - you have a totally indefensible position here. Just admit you didn't know as much about logis as you thought you did.
-Liang
You can keep saying it all you want, it doesn't make it true. If there have been thousands of people bemoaning the uselessness of the scimi, surely you can link me to a threadnought somewhere. If you can't then my point stands, because as it stands, you're flat out wrong. Want proof? Look at this thread: People who think the scim needs a boost and that the TL bonus is useless: Liang Nuren Sven Hammerstorm(maybe? I think he was trolling, but I'm pretty sure if I don't put him here you'll accuse me of skewing the numbers) Michael Harari ("Scimi with an active tanking bonus would actually be pretty neat.") Again, not reeeeaaallly, but whatever, I give it to you and my point STILL remains intact.
People who are on the fence: ElCholo (" I don't think that the Scimitar is underpowered. Not for what I use it for, for what my friends use it for, or for what my alliance uses it for. I do, however, feel that it could be improved upon for what it does to bring it in line with it's armor counterpart. ")
People who don't think the TL link needs to go: Cambarus Mfine Apocal Rip Miner Nor Tzestu Rel'k Bloodlor Tamiya Sarossa Verity Sovereign vorneus shlakkk
That's not looking well for your side I think. That said, even that pales in comparison to my main point on that subject: If the ship were actually underpowered, people would not be using it. Or, if they were, they would be complaining constantly on the forums about how bad it is. We're not seeing this. There's a reason for that.
EDIT:
Liang Nuren wrote:Rip Minner wrote:The Scimitar mite have a few flaws compared to the Basilisk. It mite need some improvements like alittle more targeting range or PG or even moving some slots around to get more reps on highs. It might be reasonable to go 5 highs/3 lows as long as they gave it appropriately larger capacitor and fittings. Using 4 fitting mods to get 4 large RRs is a bit ... hilarious. :P -Liang That's not a terrible idea, and is much more reasonable than turning it into a logi with a tank like a sleipnir. (You still haven't posted this 6k/s tanked sleip of yours so I can compare a similarly fit scimi btw) |
Sverige Pahis
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
488
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 03:05:00 -
[140] - Quote
I'm so glad there's a hide post feature so I can avoid those horrible terrible arguments by the guy who likes to sign his posts. |
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
176
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 04:06:00 -
[141] - Quote
Cambarus wrote: You can keep saying it all you want, it doesn't make it true. If there have been thousands of people bemoaning the uselessness of the scimi, surely you can link me to a threadnought somewhere ... That's not looking well for your side I think. That said, even that pales in comparison to my main point on that subject: If the ship were actually underpowered, people would not be using it. Or, if they were, they would be complaining constantly on the forums about how bad it is. We're not seeing this. There's a reason for that.
I'm looking at historic threads right now. As you might imagine, Scimitar threads are pretty ******* rare - and the people that post in them are even moreso. There's a lot of duplication from people who regularly fly them and most of the people express their opinions many times. Over the first six threads I clicked, I've seen three people in favor of the TL bonus: - Caius Silvaris - Davinel Lulinvega - Regat Kozovv
I've seen these people against it: - Allahs Warrior - Bobbechk - Commander Vic - Cyan Nuevo - Dirk Magnum - Doctor Mabuse - Dristra - Gabriel Virtus - Gizznitt Malikite - Hugh Ruka - Ki Tarra - Lythandros - Master Han - Neutrino Sunset - Nian Banks - Nullshadow - Omara Otawan - Randgris - Roemy Schneider - Seishi Maru - Selim - Shevar - Typhado3 - Valea Silpha - Washell Olivaw
Shall I continue?
EDIT:
Liang Nuren wrote: ]That's not a terrible idea, and is much more reasonable than turning it into a logi with a tank like a sleipnir. (You still haven't posted this 6k/s tanked sleip of yours so I can compare a similarly fit scimi btw)
A few comments: - Such a suggestion would neuter the Scim's mobility. I bet you'd get far more support for removing the link bonus than for removing one of those lows. :) - The Sleipnir has more HP. I know you like to ignore this but it really does matter a lot more than you seem to think. - The Scimitar uses its cap for things other than its own local tank. I know you don't really understand this since you've never flown one like this, but it really doesn't have the capacitor to tank like you're claiming. - Assume Crystals, Tengu booster. Blue pill is acceptable on the Sleip, but you probably want Mindflood on the Scim (see cap problem above).
Sleipnir:
[Sleipnir, PVP Sleip (Pimp)] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field True Sansha Warp Scrambler
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard II Medium Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard II
Hammerhead II x4
Scim:
[Scimitar, 4 Rep (Crystal, Pimp)] True Sansha Power Diagnostic System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System True Sansha Power Diagnostic System
Corelum B-Type 10MN Afterburner Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Transporter II Large Shield Transporter II Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hornet EC-300 x5 Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x4
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 04:13:00 -
[142] - Quote
Scimitar fit I like to use for Incursion's.
Hardwiring 1.) Inherent Implants 'Squire' PG8 2.) Inherent Implants 'Squire' CC8
Rigs 1.) Meduim Anti-Kinectic Screen Reinforcer I 2.) Meduim Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
High Slots 1.) Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter 2.) " " 3.) " " 4.) Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Med Slots 1.) Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field 2.) " " 3.) Federation Navy Tracking Link 4.) " " 5.) " "
Low Slots 1.) Damage Control II 2.) Power Diagnostic System II 3.) " " 4.) " "
Fleet 10 man Incursion Sites
2x Scimitar chain caping/swaping out both Tracking/Optimal scrips as needed. 6 shield reps works fine not every ship needs it's own decated rep.
8x Mach atleast 6 of them as AC set up if not all 8 but can easly swap 2 AC for 2 1400's as needed depending on skill level of Mach pilots as non maxed skilled 1400's dont suffer as much as AC Mach pilots.
No tackler needed Machs are faster then the npc frigs and a 52.5% tracking boost makes fast short work of any frigs that did not get alphed on the way in.
With out the tracking Link bonus your Mach pilots spends more time geting into range for bigger targets or burning away from frigs to burn them down or you drop one-two machs for a tackler's and thats freely giving up DPS something with witch I dont like to do in Incursions.
Edit: And yes this is PvE not PvP build. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
176
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 04:26:00 -
[143] - Quote
Rip Minner wrote: 1.) Meduim Anti-Kinectic Screen Reinforcer I 2.) Meduim Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
1.) Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field 3.) Federation Navy Tracking Link
You should upgrade those rigs man - they are literally dirt cheap next to those CN Invs.
Quote:6 shield reps works fine not every ship needs it's own decated rep.
6 reps is kinda a magic number when looking at Scimitars. While you can squeeze 6 RRs onto a single Basi to take care of repping the entire fleet and then make room for another DPS ship, you're also sacrificing incoming RR to the Basi. I suppose you could bring a Vargur to help the Scim out (yay tracking+falloff bonus), but I'd probably be more comfortable with 2x 3-5 RR Logis at that point - and if the DPS is that low then you may as well fit links.
I guess running 2 Scims with 3 TLs each means that 2 Machs are consistently without boosting? Can you show the performance difference between them and the boosted Machs?
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
35
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 04:54:00 -
[144] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Rip Minner wrote: 1.) Meduim Anti-Kinectic Screen Reinforcer I 2.) Meduim Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
1.) Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field 3.) Federation Navy Tracking Link
You should upgrade those rigs man - they are literally dirt cheap next to those CN Invs. Quote:6 shield reps works fine not every ship needs it's own decated rep. 6 reps is kinda a magic number when looking at Scimitars. While you can squeeze 6 RRs onto a single Basi to take care of repping the entire fleet and then make room for another DPS ship, you're also sacrificing incoming RR to the Basi. I suppose you could bring a Vargur to help the Scim out (yay tracking+falloff bonus), but I'd probably be more comfortable with 2x 3-5 RR Logis at that point - and if the DPS is that low then you may as well fit links. I guess running 2 Scims with 3 TLs each means that 2 Machs are consistently without boosting? Can you show the performance difference between them and the boosted Machs? -Liang
The TL's are DPS mods and yes we wish we could have 4 each but we lose to much tank that way. And Yes I'm a cheap ars I never even priced out the tech 2 ones lol. Thx u
But how effective the TL's are depend on ether how far way a target is or how close and fast a target is. When the Machs are in prime possion they do nothing but when were all on are game the targets never last the time needed for the Machs to get into prime possion there for at least 6 out of 8 Machs are geting a dps inc ether in raising fall-off dps from a Opt script or in cuting the time in halve thats needed to burn away from a frig by using a tracking script for him.
All in all I dont have the hard numbers myself I'm always to bussy watching targets and ships but the FC's I have flowen with swear up and down that I help shave 1-2 mins off.
O ya I'm the pilot of both Scimitars so the timing of both Scimitars is High as it gets as I can read my own mind much fast then two differnt pilots and the FC fig out witch Scim is going to TL/Rep witch ship at that time. It's kind of like I FC the Logicis and he FC's the Machs.
He tells me were I need improvement after the fight and I have just goten much much better with exp as most people do. But it's alot more trick using the Scims this way with TL's reather then just reping or cap chaining.
Edit: And the best part is I get two times the rewards at the end. And that dont happen dual boxing level 4's |
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 21:08:00 -
[145] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: Over the first six threads I clicked, I've seen three people in favor of the TL bonus: I've seen these people against it:
Shall I continue?
First off, you mention 6 threads. Link all of them.
Second, and this is the really important bit:
If you thought I wasn't going to notice that you changed the sides from "Thinks the scimi doesn't need a boost / Thinks the scimi needs a boost" to "In favour/against the TL bonus" you are very sorely mistaken. Try again. When you're arguing against posts like this:
Cambarus wrote: That said, even that pales in comparison to my main point on that subject: If the ship were actually underpowered, people would not be using it. Or, if they were, they would be complaining constantly on the forums about how bad it is. We're not seeing this. There's a reason for that.
Cambarus wrote: This isn't even about the link bonus any more, it's the ship itself. As I said before, the fact that there are people who use the bonus means that it is by it's very nature NOT a useless bonus.You think it needs a buff, and I honestly can't think of anyone outside this thread mentioning this before, whereas I can think of many, many people who use the scim and think it's just fine, even if they don't use the TL bonus.
Cambarus wrote: Fair enough. I chose my words poorly, and it would be more accurate to say : The bulk of eve (myself included) do not believe that the scimi is underpowered, or in need of any major boosts.
Writing up a post that shows how many people like the very niche bonus is trying to change the subject, and it's hilarious that you thought I wasn't going to notice |
Boris Ginnungagap
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2011.12.18 21:30:00 -
[146] - Quote
You know Liang, that Heretic Nation is the place where EVE dumbs their social rejects. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
177
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 00:56:00 -
[147] - Quote
Cambarus wrote:First off, you mention 6 threads. Link all of them.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=scimitar+tracking+link
Have fun.
Quote: If you thought I wasn't going to notice that you changed the sides from "Thinks the scimi doesn't need a boost / Thinks the scimi needs a boost" to "In favour/against the TL bonus" you are very sorely mistaken. Try again. When you're arguing against posts like this ... Writing up a post that shows how many people like the very niche bonus is trying to change the subject, and it's hilarious that you thought I wasn't going to notice
I have consistently stated that the Scimitar needs the tracking link changed to something else -- and so did all of those other people. According to your own arguments, they were all asking for boosts. In fact, there was a non-trivial number of them that were literally saying it needed a boost.
-Liang
Ed: Cambarus, this is my last post on this topic. I will not be entering the thread again. BTW, I accept your concessions on these topics: - The Basilisk is better than the Scimitar for solo work. - The Scimitar would not in fact tank like a command ship if its bonus was changed. - There have been many more people suggesting changes to the Scimitar's bonus than have been in favor of it.
Also, I regret that I've probably lost esteem in your eyes and that you've lost a great amount in mine. I take it all back - you're not a complete moron. But you absolutely are ignorant to the basic day to day workings of logistics work, and you haven't put any thought at all into how to be an effective solo or small gang logistics pilot. I really wish you'd stick to talking about topics you know something about.
Adios. Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
177
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 00:57:00 -
[148] - Quote
Boris Ginnungagap wrote:You know Liang, that Heretic Nation is the place where EVE dumbs their social rejects.
I'm just quoting this for ******* hilarity.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Cambarus
Baros Reloaded
54
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 01:18:00 -
[149] - Quote
Normally I would have just told you to prove your own damn argument, but I had some time to kill, and... Just going off the first page of google, there were a couple of 1 page threads, one of which was from 2004, and ALL of which were basically variations of people being upset that CCP nerfed tracking links by giving them scripts (GUYS IF WE DONT FIX TLS HOW IS ANYONE GOING TO HIT ALL THOSE 10KM/S NANO PHOONS? ) Plucking a random thread off of eve-search I got this: http://eve-search.com/thread/1159471-0/page/1#4 Where the OP whines about the TL bonus and everyone else tells him to STFU. Not exactly the army of supporters you claim to have.
Liang Nuren wrote: I have consistently stated that the Scimitar needs the tracking link changed to something else -- and so did all of those other people. According to your own arguments, they were all asking for boosts. In fact, there was a non-trivial number of them that were literally saying it needed a boost.
-Liang
When I looked I didn't see all these threads, with thousands of people, that you seem to have found. Would you be so kind as to link some of them?
|
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
32
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 04:16:00 -
[150] - Quote
Liang I'm not sure exactly how you're flying a Scimitar, but it's designed to mitigate incoming DPS through the combination of fast speed + small sig radius, rather than flat out tanking. You would be surprised by how much damage a single nano Battlecruiser can take facing gangs solo, as long as it is competently flown and the pilot knows when to pull off.
I can't imagine the Scimitar being anything but better at this role, with a much smaller sig radius and being much faster. Use your drones to pick enemy drones off you and know when to pull away to regen some shields back instead of gimping your fits with an AB, sacrificing the greatest thing possible to a small gang - mobility. With ganglinks becoming more and more commonly used, the margin of error between being in point range and thus being easily run down by any shield battlecruiser and being in rep range is small - only ~30km.
As for the actual bonuses, I would suggest the Imicus drone damage bonus, the Legion/Maller/Prophecy cap bonuses to lasers would be strong contenders.
On a side note, Damps are still useful and viable in small gang situations, mostly vs enemy logistics but also against enemy recons. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |