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Ciypher	Posted - 2007.01.28 05:27:00 - [91] Did CCP ever consider the idea of gate camping as they created a PVP game? Gate camping isnÆt even close to PVP. This isnÆt a complaint about gate campers, if they want to play that way thatÆs their choice; however I think it is a lame way to play. Gate Camping doesnÆt add anything to a players experience, especially when there is so much lag your half dead before you even know youÆre being shot at and rarely get a shot off to try and take someone with you. I am referring to the groups that sit at gates because they canÆt actually PVP, not those grouping during war, those groups donÆt attack just anyone that comes through. The few gate campers I have talked to come across poorly and fail to make a point, which isnÆt a big surprise. Many of the posters in this thread supporting gate camping arenÆt coming across any better by the context of their writing. On a Positive noteà Actual Pirates that are very good at PVP make the game more interesting. They actively hunt you down, not wait with 30 friends to ambush you. Many of them give you a chance to chat before they kill you or offer a ransom to save your life. That aspect adds to the game experience. Eventually there will be no one to attack when people decide it isnÆt worth the effort to get into low sec, when that happens everyone looses. Quote: Sex on television can't hurt you unless you fall off.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.28 06:30:00 - [92] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 28/01/2007 06:28:33 Originally by: Ciypher Did CCP ever consider the idea of gate camping as they created a PVP game? Gate camping isnÆt even close to PVP. This isnÆt a complaint about gate campers, if they want to play that way thatÆs their choice; however I think it is a lame way to play. Gate Camping doesnÆt add anything to a players experience, especially when there is so much lag your half dead before you even know youÆre being shot at and rarely get a shot off to try and take someone with you. I am referring to the groups that sit at gates because they canÆt actually PVP, not those grouping during war, those groups donÆt attack just anyone that comes through. The few gate campers I have talked to come across poorly and fail to make a point, which isnÆt a big surprise. Many of the posters in this thread supporting gate camping arenÆt coming across any better by the context of their writing. On a Positive noteà Actual Pirates that are very good at PVP make the game more interesting. They actively hunt you down, not wait with 30 friends to ambush you. Many of them give you a chance to chat before they kill you or offer a ransom to save your life. That aspect adds to the game experience. Eventually there will be no one to attack when people decide it isnÆt worth the effort to get into low sec, when that happens everyone looses. Quote: Sex on television can't hurt you unless you fall off. In response to the text in red. PvP is PvP as long as said target is being operated by a character In the event said character is on autopilot it becomes PvI (Player versus Idiot). The fact that you make these assumptions that gate campers can't pvp shows what you know about piracy. In response to the text in blue the #1 rule in the big book of piracy (now yours for the low price of $19.95!) is Never ransom a pinata(frieghters are not pinata class vessels (yet)) always *** it open and eat the candy. You seem to think piracy only involves pew pew where in reality there are many forms of piracy: Gate Camping (High profit margin in empire and 0.0), Belt piracy (Low to moderate profit margin in empire Higher profits in alliance space), Corp Thieving (Moderate to high profits), Contract Scamming (Moderate to High profit margin's), Ore Theiving (Lower profit margin but high ** off margin), Wardec Ransoming (High profit potential but usually doused by arrogant CEO's), Intelligence marketing (Higher profit margin), and the list can go on. Being killed in a gate camp does add to the game experience it teaches you not to travel in your pimped out ride in the hood without a crew to back you up. An hows local for game experience because accoring to you the only real pirates are the ones that ignore your hauler travelling from the gates and shooting the people in belts. Local is my biggest weakness as a belt pirate I don't like going places and seeing people log off . In response to the text in yellow there will always be people in lowsec pirates operate on NBSI and besides you have to get into 0.0 some how or every one could just boost their sec status and wardec your corps the reality of it is there is no escape. Gate camping stays simply because you have to catch haulers and frieghters some how
Dread Phantom Caldari Project-Chaos	Posted - 2007.01.28 06:34:00 - [93] Originally by: Ciypher Did CCP ever consider the idea of gate camping as they created a PVP game? Gate camping isnÆt even close to PVP. This isnÆt a complaint about gate campers, if they want to play that way thatÆs their choice; however I think it is a lame way to play. Gate Camping doesnÆt add anything to a players experience, especially when there is so much lag your half dead before you even know youÆre being shot at and rarely get a shot off to try and take someone with you. I am referring to the groups that sit at gates because they canÆt actually PVP, not those grouping during war, those groups donÆt attack just anyone that comes through. The few gate campers I have talked to come across poorly and fail to make a point, which isnÆt a big surprise. Many of the posters in this thread supporting gate camping arenÆt coming across any better by the context of their writing. On a Positive noteà Actual Pirates that are very good at PVP make the game more interesting. They actively hunt you down, not wait with 30 friends to ambush you. Many of them give you a chance to chat before they kill you or offer a ransom to save your life. That aspect adds to the game experience. Eventually there will be no one to attack when people decide it isnÆt worth the effort to get into low sec, when that happens everyone looses. Quote: Sex on television can't hurt you unless you fall off. Which game do you play
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.28 07:02:00 - [94] Originally by: Dread Phantom Originally by: Ciypher Did CCP ever consider the idea of gate camping as they created a PVP game? Gate camping isnÆt even close to PVP. This isnÆt a complaint about gate campers, if they want to play that way thatÆs their choice; however I think it is a lame way to play. Gate Camping doesnÆt add anything to a players experience, especially when there is so much lag your half dead before you even know youÆre being shot at and rarely get a shot off to try and take someone with you. I am referring to the groups that sit at gates because they canÆt actually PVP, not those grouping during war, those groups donÆt attack just anyone that comes through. The few gate campers I have talked to come across poorly and fail to make a point, which isnÆt a big surprise. Many of the posters in this thread supporting gate camping arenÆt coming across any better by the context of their writing. On a Positive noteà Actual Pirates that are very good at PVP make the game more interesting. They actively hunt you down, not wait with 30 friends to ambush you. Many of them give you a chance to chat before they kill you or offer a ransom to save your life. That aspect adds to the game experience. Eventually there will be no one to attack when people decide it isnÆt worth the effort to get into low sec, when that happens everyone looses. Quote: Sex on television can't hurt you unless you fall off. Which game do you play Hello Kitty Adventure Island I assume
boogaboob Caldari BIG Advanced Assault Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.28 08:38:00 - [95] Edited by: boogaboob on 28/01/2007 08:35:58 SPOCK: 'Captain, the enemy vessel has deployed an Ignoramian Isolation Sphere. Our phasers cannot penetrate.' KIRK: 'But to generate such a field... their stupidity quotient must be off the charts! Such immense idiocy could destroy reality as we know it! Our only chance is to beam aboard their vessel and deactivate it from the inside. I nominate that guy in the red shirt over there.' RED SHIRT: 'Dammit.' Yeah, this is an analogy for the impenetrable ignorance of the way EVE is played evident in certain posts of this thread. It also lightens the mood a bit. Not eloquent. but c'mon, it's 2 AM here X_x Signatures done by me! Evemail me! Anyone? No? Aww...
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.28 08:59:00 - [96] In the original alpha there were no gates. They were added because of points others here have pointed out, though it would allow a greater freedom of movement it also would eliminate any and all chokeholds to remove them. It was found that it was to difficult to locate others and have battles, thus stargates were born. The only real problem with gate camps currently is that the game offers no real counter to a warp bubble or warp disruption drone. If such a counter would be introduced then the properly equipped pod pilot could avoid most gate camps. Galactic Express Recruitment Post
JaxxFunk Minmatar Macabre Votum	Posted - 2007.01.28 11:22:00 - [97] Originally by: Strange Guy Edited by: Strange Guy on 26/01/2007 18:09:26 Get rid of gates, instead of using gates, we just could just use "natural warp paths" to other systems. To warp to another system you would need atleast 50% of your cap. The speed of warping to other systems could be double or triple normal warp speed. Then when you reach another system, you are dropped near a random planet in that system. So this way pirates have to camp all of the planets, or a select few, making camping much more difficult. No cloak anymore due to this random planet picking though. But what about alliance space control you say? Well, if a system is under the sov (0.0) of a player corp or player alliance, they can drop "gravity wells" at a planet(s) pulling anyone/corp/alliance who has a certain amount of standing to the corp/alliance that placed the structure, gets pulled to it (Random if there are more than one) when warping to that system. This allows them to try and control who goes into their space. The "gravity wells" would be player made only, and need moon materials and other high end minerals. IMHO, gates should be removed, it makes the universe feel smaller and less realistic. No
Hypatia Iola	Posted - 2007.01.28 11:49:00 - [98] Now i will admit that i think gate camping is kinda crappy. I genuinely don't see it adding anything to the game, and i do see why people whine... just wanted to have that said before i get to the point. I've never been taken at a gate camp. I've only ever even jumped into one, and frankly that guy was an idiot(1 for gate camping alone, 2 for actually attacking me, 3 because seriously DON'T GATECAMP ALONE lol. As far as people who see gatecamping as an intrinsic part of the game, i do disagree, i think there are far more profitable and interesting ways to make money. That said, y'all don't bother me(i make occaisional forays into 0.0) Now waaay back in the beginning someone mentioned having Concorde spawns pop up after x kills in one system, and/or after sitting at x gate for x time. I think this ain't a half bad idea, with work. I think it would do 2 things: 1 stem the tide of whining(ALWAYS A PLUS) and 2 give those poor campers something to do between popping those ibis's(or whatever) Loot is optional, but certainly not a bad idea. CCP, in the words of the almighty Ben(i.e. me), i command you to work on this idea and iplement it!
Tarron Sarek Gallente Solid Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.28 12:09:00 - [99] Hm, I agree 'PvP' in form of gatecamping is quite lame and it would be nice to have an alternative. So what the game might need is a more complete concept: - no bubble deployment near gates, more specifically overlapping the 15km spawn sphere. - easier and cheaper bubble deployment, so you can deploy more bubbles, along warp lanes, incoming vectors etc. - get rid of local, so you don't know there are people waiting for you. - fix logging off by implementing a logout timer - pirate jump points maybe? Reminds me of Freelancer or Privateer. They could have a high pirate emergence and highly increased (if at all) Concord response time. So the hunted have a chance to get away and the hunters have more chances catching their prey. Should be more fun. After all, you can also just do the old school gatecamp and shoot them quick enough. ___________________________________ _/_/ Game balance isn't just a luxury \_\_
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.28 12:22:00 - [100] Gate camping is not for "getting kills." Gate camping is for controlling the entrance to a claimed space.
Djininia	Posted - 2007.01.28 12:28:00 - [101] Originally by: Cipher7 Gate camping is not for "getting kills." Gate camping is for controlling the entrance to a claimed space. Or getting ISK to make a living. It's a reliable form of piracy that doesn't involve spending anywhere from two hours to two weeks hunting a target (like belt-piracy often can).
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.28 14:15:00 - [102] I should really stay out of this forum, it depresses me to see how badly the community has suffered with the recent influx of players who can't protect themselves, are too lazy to protect themselves and/or want CCP to protect them by changing the game into some kind of solo mining/mission sim. I know there's always going to be and in fact always has been an element of the community who can't cope with the way the game is designed but it has most definitely got worse over the last six to twelve months. Gates are a necessary aspect of gameplay because they provide a location where player interaction can occur and are the one location in space where such an opportunity is gauranteed. Such locations must exist in order to fit in with one of the key design philosophies of Eve i.e. that no matter what you do or where you are there is a risk of another player forcing an interaction with you. The tools have been provided within the game to avoid being ganked at gates, in fact I can't remember the last time I was ever ganked at a gate when I didn't want to be, it was probably years ago. The few times I have been ganked at gates it's because I was too lazy to use the tools available and decided to take a risk knowing I'd have to live with the consequences, which is fine. Every other time I travel in the appropriate ship, with the appropriate modules, with a scout or with enough force that if anyone's silly enough to gate camp then they're going to have a bad day. Some or all of those options are available to all of you with the smallest amount of effort and are pretty much a given capability for even small corporations/groups of players. The last time one of my corp's haulers got ganked by a gatecamp in lowsec the camp dissappeared 15 mins later when 20 angry BoB pilots went on a rampage around the area looking for the miscreants. That is exactly the mechanism that sorts this problem out and is easily achieveable by all of you if you choose. Don't look for CCP to solve a problem when you are too lazy or incapable of sorting the problem out yourselves with the tools provided. This is a very clear case of being careful what you wish for because some of the changes required to keep the risk of player interaction as high as it is at the moment overall (i.e. to maintain the gameplay balance overall) would likely be far less palatable to you than the risk of running into a gate camp in lowsec. Restrictions to combat at gates would seriously impair a 0.0 alliance's ability to protect their space and exist as an entity. Just because some of you empire dwellers keep bumping into pirate gate camps in low sec space does not mean we need a change to game mechanics that would have a far more reaching effect. Or do you really want to impact the flow of high end minerals from 0.0 or the flow of modules from 0.0 npcs or deadspace complexes? Or lose a significant portion of your market for ships and modules because we can't all find each other to blow each other up? As for the fact that the inclusion of gates makes the universe feel smaller and less realistic, you can't seriously believe that any version of space travel in the far future is going to significantly more or less realistic than any other? Do you really? Although if I could just hit a button and pop up somewhere else on the map without any sensation of 'travelling' that the current gates system creates I am pretty sure that would make the universe feel a lot smaller to me. Be careful what you wish for. Use the tools you have been provided with. Post less and put more effort into actually playing the game instead of asking for it to be changed to make life easier for you. Blog
Sen Goku Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.01.28 15:01:00 - [103] Originally by: Blacklight I should really stay out of this forum, it depresses me to see how badly the community has suffered with the recent influx of players who can't protect themselves, are too lazy to protect themselves and/or want CCP to protect them by changing the game into some kind of solo mining/mission sim. I know there's always going to be and in fact always has been an element of the community who can't cope with the way the game is designed but it has most definitely got worse over the last six to twelve months. I totally, totally agree.
Anferney	Posted - 2007.01.28 16:23:00 - [104] Gate camps are necessary. Here is why: 1.) Warfare. Without a gate camp, how do you disrupt your opponent and cut off supplies? 2.) Piracy. Without gate camps, piracy is reduced to nothing but belt hunting and that does not usually yield good loot. Furthermore, it is unrealistic since a pirate would much rather fight a barge/hauler than a warship and those haulers are normally only vulnerable at gates. 3.) Alliance territory. With the suggested system, you still guard territory the exact same way. Just there is no gate and now there is a gravity well instead. Thus, the proposed system grants nothing and instead removes important functionality.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.28 17:21:00 - [105] I havent seen any one say what was wrong with using a scout at all in this post. All I get from the anti camp lobby are "You guys are lame because you don't follow the rules of spaceshido!" (yes I stole your word Ikvar because it makes me lol) Half Assed Rhymage
Cipher7 Net 7	Posted - 2007.01.28 20:36:00 - [106] Originally by: Blacklight stuff I agree. If people spent half as much thought in-game as they do writing whine posts on the forums, there wouldn't be any gateganks. I live in lowsec and 0.0, gate ganks are not a significant issue. I think the problem is that the Eve userbase has convinced itself that Eve takes no RL skill to play, that everything is skillpoints and isk, and that individual player abilities do not matter. RL abilities matter. Being able to live in 0.0 is something you LEARN how to do. It is not built into the game that once you get past X amount of skillpoints you can live in 0.0 You have to LEARN how to live out there, what procedures to follow, how to operate. But we have hardcore carebears who live on the new player help channel who convince new players that they should not venture outside of highsec or they will get ganked by hordes of pirates. As a result new players are experiencing a failure to launch. The truth is that a player can come straight out of the character generator and live in lowsec just fine. All it takes is KNOWLEDGE which does not get imparted to new players because the first people they meet on their Eve career is 3 year old help channel highsec players. If the PVP playerbase wants to see Eve continue as a pure PVP game, it behooves us all to do our part to educate new players and support the institutions that make it possible for Eve to survive as a PVP game. We need more Academy style corps, more entities such as Eve University, Agony Unleashed, and NRDS alliances such as ISS where new players can go and learn how to be a 0.0 denizen. If we do not support these types of institutions, CCP will feel obliged to water down Eve into a carebear candyland. The world already has a World of Warcraft. Do we need a space version too?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.28 20:43:00 - [107] Originally by: Cipher7 The world already has a World of Warcraft. Do we need a space version too? World of Starcraft? Half Assed Rhymage
Lamic Tarvalla Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.01.29 02:30:00 - [108] We have a differant way of "fixing" gate camps here at my corp
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.01.29 18:43:00 - [109] "Hello Kitty Adventure Island I assume" oh save the tough talk you freaking geek, you can't even punch your way out of a wet papaer bag in real life. My guess is in real life you are "hello kitty". you are the exact steroetype of the lamer who gate camps, you got no skills, you like the safety of camping gates with friends, you think you are some billy bad arse, because you and 10 other tards camp a gate and wtfbbq solo players coming through, and then to top it off you make assinine posts to try to suggest you are somek9ind of larger than life hardcore roxor your boxor's dude. News flash YOU ARE THE CAREBEAR in eve so get over it, your time needs to come to pass gate camping needs to be made risky and hard.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.29 18:48:00 - [110] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Hello Kitty Adventure Island I assume" oh save the tough talk you freaking geek, you can't even punch your way out of a wet papaer bag in real life. My guess is in real life you are "hello kitty". you are the exact steroetype of the lamer who gate camps, you got no skills, you like the safety of camping gates with friends, you think you are some billy bad arse, because you and 10 other tards camp a gate and wtfbbq solo players coming through, and then to top it off you make assinine posts to try to suggest you are somek9ind of larger than life hardcore roxor your boxor's dude. News flash YOU ARE THE CAREBEAR in eve so get over it, your time needs to come to pass gate camping needs to be made risky and hard. We'll you could assume all this but once again I reiterate. I am no gate camper. I can punch my way out of a wet paper bag (long story). And I am no kitty Now please tell me you talk about the pirates working together to pop you Why don't you work as a team to travel safely? or maybe have a mate in a crap hauler fly with you as a decoy Half Assed Rhymage
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.29 19:08:00 - [111] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Hello Kitty Adventure Island I assume" oh save the tough talk you freaking geek, you can't even punch your way out of a wet papaer bag in real life. My guess is in real life you are "hello kitty". you are the exact steroetype of the lamer who gate camps, you got no skills, you like the safety of camping gates with friends, you think you are some billy bad arse, because you and 10 other tards camp a gate and wtfbbq solo players coming through, and then to top it off you make assinine posts to try to suggest you are somek9ind of larger than life hardcore roxor your boxor's dude. News flash YOU ARE THE CAREBEAR in eve so get over it, your time needs to come to pass gate camping needs to be made risky and hard. We'll you could assume all this but once again I reiterate. I am no gate camper. Lies! Everybody who likes EVE PvP is a blob-o-rama gatecamper. Just like everybody who likes EVE economics is a T2 BPO owner. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.29 19:39:00 - [112] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 29/01/2007 19:37:10 Originally by: Strange Guy Ok, so the counter to gate camps is a blob, thanks for pointing that out. If you bring a force large enough to destroy the camp, they will see you via their cloaked scout and run. So ok everyone, if you want to travel anywhere you need at least fifty ships, thats the counter to gate camps! You dont actually need a larger blob. One of the inherent weaknesses of sitting on a gate for hours on end is that anyone with a covops can sit and watch you, make a detailed list of ships and if he is dilligent, he can even work out what weapons and roles those ships have to an extent. Then you can bring in a tailor-made group to bust the camp. You can exploit the weaknesses that are on display for everyone to see, while bringing a force to fight which the campers will have no clear picture of what is coming to attack them. Sure they might have alts on gates, but that will give them about a minute to work out your ship composition and move if they feel threatened. That timeframe combined with the use of bubbles and large slow ships means they have only one way out - through the gate they are camping. Not too hard to follow them and tackle and kill the stragglers. HOwever, if you are smart enough to bring a smaller fleet, but made up to exploit their weaknesses, they will most likely not run away, and you will have a satisfying victory and one dead camp. Most gatecamps are also extremely vulnerable to snipers too. Usually when i need to bring my hauling alt into syndicate, I check the gate in my sniper, pop interdictors and tacklers, and then jump my hauler right past all those slow locking battleships left and laugh at them. You cannot honestly tell me CCP put in the stargate system without envisaging the obvious consequence it would have on PvP. Gatecamps are an intended form of PVP, unless you think that CCP are all retarded. My suggestion to you is learn to deal with them, or find another game, because it really isnt going to change.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.29 19:44:00 - [113] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Hello Kitty Adventure Island I assume" oh save the tough talk you freaking geek, you can't even punch your way out of a wet papaer bag in real life. My guess is in real life you are "hello kitty". you are the exact steroetype of the lamer who gate camps, you got no skills, you like the safety of camping gates with friends, you think you are some billy bad arse, because you and 10 other tards camp a gate and wtfbbq solo players coming through, and then to top it off you make assinine posts to try to suggest you are somek9ind of larger than life hardcore roxor your boxor's dude. News flash YOU ARE THE CAREBEAR in eve so get over it, your time needs to come to pass gate camping needs to be made risky and hard. We'll you could assume all this but once again I reiterate. I am no gate camper. Lies! Everybody who likes EVE PvP is a blob-o-rama gatecamper. Just like everybody who likes EVE economics is a T2 BPO owner. Ok I gate camped like twice but since I fly smaller ships and crimson onyx didn't rep me fast enough I would usually end up dying to sentries Half Assed Rhymage

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