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CCP Paradox 1435	Posted - 2016.01.22 18:15:37 - [1] - Quote Hello fellow Scientists, We have now enabled Project Discovery on Singularity. This is a very interesting mini game where the goal is to classify images of immunofluorescently stained cells for the benefit of The Human Protein Atlas (HPA), which is a Swedish research group dedicated to providing a database for the scientific community of the world. Since these images cannot yet be classified with the help of computers, human interaction is needed, or in this case, capsuleer interaction. With your help, the HPA can improve their database which goes a long way towards understanding the various diseases of the world. The Sisters of EVE will reward you for each submission with LP, ISK and XP within Project Discovery, contributing to your rank. We are now looking for feedback on it within EVE. You will find it accessible under the Neocom -> Business section, as Project Discovery. There is also a survey to take part in, which you can find here https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/H6Z9ZRN, and we encourage you to fill this in after using the feature on Singularity. A mass test for Singularity will also be held next week on Thursday 28th January at 17:00, which will include using Project Discovery. More details will be created next week in a new forum thread. You can find out more about Project Discovery at the website here. And also from this latest Dev Blog: Project Discovery needs you! Thank you, Team Astro Sparkle http://mmos.ch http://www.proteinatlas.org/ http://en.ru.is/ CCP Paradox \| EVE QA \| Team Astro Sparkle Always bet on the Drifters.

Jimy F Aliastra Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.01.22 18:23:06 - [2] - Quote First ^_^
Lasse R Farnsworth Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 13	Posted - 2016.01.22 18:41:23 - [3] - Quote Just as a feedback. I really like all the new features, but you guys really should make a option to custimise the contrast / colorsheme. I'm not colorblind but some of the contrast / colors would make it hard for some persons. And actually for looking at pictures you might want to calibrate the program to your monitor etc ...
Crazy Kitten Blaidd Drwg Corporation 3	Posted - 2016.01.22 19:41:48 - [4] - Quote need more examples to compare for the different options, to get a better impression of whether or not an option can actually apply. only one picture for the option doesn't suffice :/ also, regarding the history: it'd be nice to be able to actually see the approved result when it's in, so i can better learn what i did wrong. and finally, it really needs a "no clue, next!" button. no rewards, just an option to not knowingly submit bad data :/ edit: almost forgot: needs to be resizable, and more zoom options. maybe also take the "overview" outside the zoom view, to provide more visible space
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 804	Posted - 2016.01.22 19:46:01 - [5] - Quote Love Protien Discovery. Can't wait for it to go live and collect all the triple click free LP. 2k LP in 5 mins just by random clicking (42.6% accurate - without looking at what I was clicking) - risk free LP from SOE (Get accuracy up and it pays even better but does require some interaction) This will get abused to the end of the universe and back again. thanks you CCP, it will be nice to earn LP while sitting in station on TS or catching up on Reddit (no need to look at what your doing), just click 3 times and get paid. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Nitchiu KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 21	Posted - 2016.01.22 20:04:28 - [6] - Quote I'm finding lack of examples and lack of feed back to be making the whole experience feel like I should stop trying and just click on random stuff since it doesn't seem to affect my accuracy in any real fashion. Would be nice if we got a much larger sample of confirmed in the earlier levels. Right now I feel as if I'm punching blind. I think I did it right but since I have no feedback about if I'm making the right decisions. The % of other people that clicked the same as you is not a good indication in part because of small sample size but the few that confirmed samples that I've done I find that it seems to be something completely different to what the majority of people have ticked.
Murtac Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2016.01.22 20:21:33 - [7] - Quote Please remove the artificial delay while "Transmitting Analysis xx%". The chosen options fit into four bytes, there's no reason why transmitting them should take so long. Make the window re-sizable and zoom the content. And the tutorial needs A LOT more love.
Scotsman Howard The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 0	Posted - 2016.01.22 20:44:10 - [8] - Quote Can you confirm or not whether the results from Singularity will actually be used in the research project? I ask because you come to us on the singularity server to essentially try to break things and work out the bugs. However, if we are breaking things in this case (by randomly clicking to see how close we can get with the least amount of work), that would be very bad for the intended goals. If I am able to get a 40-50% just by randomly clicking in a short amount of time, you know it will happen on the main server. My advise would be to set the payout structure to be something like this: 0-75% - 0 LP 75-80% - 10LP 80-85% - 50LP 85-90% - 150LP 90-95% - 250LP 96-99% - 450LP 100% - 500LP While the actual ranges and payouts could be adjusted, I think you can see that this method rewards those who actually try and get good at this. This would help discourage people from randomly clicking and ruining SOE LP.
Sven Viko VIkolander Friends and Feminists 363	Posted - 2016.01.22 20:49:34 - [9] - Quote I've been on the test server addicted to Project Discovery for the past 2 hours. I love it. I am finding it tough to get an accuracy rating over 50% and am particularly confused when two (or more?) options are selected. Maybe the tutorial could explain when/why you'd want to pick multiple options? My feedback so far is primarily that the LP rewards are WAY, WAY too high. I am getting 250 LP per submission for 50% accuracy (which is equal to a coin flip, or not at all statistically useful). I think you should ONLY get LP above a tiny amount (10 or less) if you are getting above 50% accuracy. I agree with the LP payout suggested already in this thread: Scotsman Howard wrote: My advise would be to set the payout structure to be something like this: 0-75% - 0 LP 75-80% - 10LP 80-85% - 50LP 85-90% - 150LP 90-95% - 250LP 96-99% - 450LP 100% - 500LP I completely agree with this payout structure, except maybe that 0-75% accuracy should still get a tiny amount of LP (between 1-10). My second piece of feedback (which has also been suggested by others) is to have a skip button for when you really don't know.
Yadaryon Vondawn Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 82	Posted - 2016.01.22 20:59:46 - [10] - Quote Most of the stuff is already said but I wanted to give my feedback nonetheless point by point: People could easily skew the average accuracy by just deciding that every image is a....negative for example. Take a look at this image. It is very clear to anyone that played this game for over 15 minutes that that is NOT a cytoplasm. Most likely it is a negative but 93% voted for cytoplasm anyway. This can be abused and needs to be taken a careful look at. Lower accuracy should (at the start) not be punishing but later on it needs to be, lest it be abused. Tie rewards to leveling up a rank. Like an additional LP reward or a special item like an implant, this will incentive people to play. Do not give SoE LP, this (if implemented correctly) will be the new favourite pasttime of everyone waiting for a fleet or something. The SoE LP market will be flooded right away. I think it is better to give CONCORD LP or heavily reduce the SoE payout and up the ISK payout Make the tutorial better and longer by giving more and more clear examples. Currently there are only a few images before one is thrown in. It took me some time before I got a clear understanding of how it worked and that was not thanks to the tutorial! The tutorial is the HOOK which will leer people in to this game. It has a huge potential RL impact and creates a pasttime activity. Making sure that people understand how to play it is imperative, I feel. Allow players to invite other players to the image they are working on, this creates more interactive play and it probably will form groups. People can help each other which creates bonds, friendships and more of that good stuff. For that matter: a common dedicated chatchannel might be in place. Resizable windows For the rest I can say it is a very nice addition, one I will use very much enjoy and use. A little tweaking, especially to the tutorial and the accuracy/payout tie and bring it on :)

Lugh Crow-Slave 1461	Posted - 2016.01.22 21:27:20 - [11] - Quote with the small number of people the acuuracy is skewed i dont think we can test this all that well untill it goes live one thing i would like is some form of Pass like i can clearly see there is a pattern but i cant say what it is i would rather not be hurting the project by just guessing Citadel worm hole tax
Darkblad 2568	Posted - 2016.01.22 21:58:42 - [12] - Quote Add an Option to either adjust or mute the constant background sound that plays when the window is open. NPE GÇô ISD
Starbuilder Stasarik EVE University Ivy League 8	Posted - 2016.01.22 22:23:00 - [13] - Quote Having other options highlighted after Submitting on the tutorial is a bit confusing. Examples: http://puu.sh/mFNTg/39df5f351c.jpg and http://puu.sh/mFMRG/e8f3a722ec.jpg. Is there a reason for that, or is that a bug?
Destiny Dain2 Your Destiny Corporation 30	Posted - 2016.01.22 22:26:30 - [14] - Quote Got to head out, but I will check this out later. This should be interesting :)
Murtac Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2016.01.22 22:58:42 - [15] - Quote Starbuilder Stasarik wrote: Having other options highlighted after Submitting on the tutorial is a bit confusing. The other option is highlighted because you should have chosen it (you can choose more than one option).
Un Lapin Moosearmy I N G L O R I O U S 3	Posted - 2016.01.22 23:32:09 - [16] - Quote Okay so I spent a while on this actually TRYING to get the correct answer. It became clear that there was a disproportionate number of players purposely random clicking in order to see how far their could get. Some ideas from my experience so far: 1) The tutorial needs to be longer: - Variations of the same formation type and to cover ALL of the options. - Shouldn't be able to leave the tutorial until you've passed a threshold of accuracy. - Given the length of the tutorial, a reasonable reward should be given at the end 2) A practice option: - Rather than revisit the tutorial, include an option to practice against a database of samples which have already been solved. - This wouldn't affect your accuracy rating. - Reduce reward but enough to incentivize people to perfect the skill. 3) Higher accuracy threshold for payments - To discourage people from RNG clicking to farm. - Encourage people to use practice mode. 4) Restrict who affects the result: - Only higher accuracy pilots count towards determining the answer to a sample. - Lower accuracy pilots will still get same payout if correct, but will not contribute to determining if it's correct. - The threshold could be the mean accuracy, adjusting later depending on number of false positives. - Alternatively have people's accuracy count as an exponential multiplier i.e. their choices have more weight.
Bertram Renning Adrift and at Peace JJS Spectral Coalition 0	Posted - 2016.01.22 23:38:28 - [17] - Quote Crazy Kitten wrote: need more examples to compare for the different options, to get a better impression of whether or not an option can actually apply. only one picture for the option doesn't suffice :/ also, regarding the history: it'd be nice to be able to actually see the approved result when it's in, so i can better learn what i did wrong. and finally, it really needs a "no clue, next!" button. no rewards, just an option to not knowingly submit bad data :/ edit: almost forgot: needs to be resizable, and more zoom options. maybe also take the "overview" outside the zoom view, to provide more visible space I completly agree with that. We need to better understand what we do wrong. the "no clue, next!" button seems an absolute necessity to me too. the overall navigation inside the picture could be improve : => zoom in and out with mouse-wheel => be able to use the "overview/minimap" by clicking at it would be nice => the fact it automaticly zoom when I move my mouse over the picture get me confuse It was say before but I like to highlight that it will need some way to prevent feeding random or bogus data. As the "right" choice would be the one with the most vote, it seems that even if the reward is only gain for a "right" answer, the result could be manipulate by players for profit and would be devastating for the data's value. All that said, it is an amazing project and nothing should keep us from making it happen.
Cixi 16	Posted - 2016.01.23 00:22:19 - [18] - Quote The reward curve needs to be exponential instead of linear, otherwise it is easy to farm without caring about the results

CCP Paradox 1439	Posted - 2016.01.23 00:24:40 - [19] - Quote Starbuilder Stasarik wrote: Having other options highlighted after Submitting on the tutorial is a bit confusing. Examples: http://puu.sh/mFNTg/39df5f351c.jpg and http://puu.sh/mFMRG/e8f3a722ec.jpg. Is there a reason for that, or is that a bug? At the bottom right, do you see the Help button? Click that and it explains these tiles! CCP Paradox \| EVE QA \| Team Astro Sparkle Always bet on the Drifters.

Lugh Crow-Slave 1462	Posted - 2016.01.23 00:50:44 - [20] - Quote Starbuilder Stasarik wrote: Having other options highlighted after Submitting on the tutorial is a bit confusing. Examples: http://puu.sh/mFNTg/39df5f351c.jpg and http://puu.sh/mFMRG/e8f3a722ec.jpg. Is there a reason for that, or is that a bug? those ones that are highlited were also in the image and you missed them red X you picked wrong green check you picked right green outline you missed this Citadel worm hole tax

Tiberius StarGazer Destructive Influence Northern Coalition. 472	Posted - 2016.01.23 00:51:29 - [21] - Quote Got testing it out and so far it's pretty neat! Can imagine using this a lot while waiting for form ups or to Spring a trap or sitting in a pos! So far my only main criticisms is the number of examples provided are some what limited. I will often find myself looking at a sample and be comparing two possible options - but not really definitively being able to decide which one to use. This seems to be reflected in some of the results. On the hover over for each one where it gives you an example image would it be possible to make this into a sideshow so it goes through a number of images? This will help people get a better idea for the variations of a particular example. Secondly, some of the sample images are shown with filters set - this can somewhat confuse matters as you have to read the text, set the filter and then decide. If a particular example is best seen under that filter - can the button then be hilighted to indicate that when you have the filter selected? Or, when you select a filter can the example image also change to match?
TigerShadowclaw Armageddon Enterprises 0	Posted - 2016.01.23 01:33:06 - [22] - Quote I don't think anybody has mentioned this yet, but I would like to see an option to "pop out" the Tissue Sample image such that you can see the whole "zoomed in" image at once. I know that people will be using this as an easy way to get free LP and ISK but I think that this would make it easier for the people that are legitimately trying to identify things.
Un Lapin Moosearmy I N G L O R I O U S 5	Posted - 2016.01.23 01:41:40 - [23] - Quote Tiberius StarGazer wrote: On the hover over for each one where it gives you an example image would it be possible to make this into a sideshow so it goes through a number of images? Definitely like this idea +1
Chillya Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate. 18	Posted - 2016.01.23 02:37:28 - [24] - Quote Some feedback: 1. Definitely agree with the people above that we need more solved examples. Moreover, we should have examples for both "single" elements and their combinations. I also would not mind more expansive desctiptions (possibly in a separate window?). 2. It would be amazing if the examples either provided several identical samples with different filters enabled, or, better yet, would switch their filter according to the currently enabled filter. An option to switch between example and sample filter synching would be even better. 3. Maybe it's personal, but could we get a bigger window for this? 4. Is it possible to have just separate "blue" and "red" filters for examining the cells' structure better without the green-marked elements? 5. UI: is it really nessessary to "blink" all the hexagons on the right after every filter change? 6. UI: if you click the tutorial button in the lower left several times, you have to confrm the start of the tutorial for each mouse click. 7. Any plans to add right mousebutton functionality? 8. What is the current update rate plan for unsolved samples answers on SISI (so that we can see how our accuracy is updated)? 9. To everyone suggesting LP rewards for certain margins of accuracy: do at least 40 of these and let's wait for our ratings to properly update first (the starting "calibration" is fine and dandy, but let's see how good we actually are). Just some additional thoughts on 1: the more examples you could provide, the better (both single elements and combination). After an hour and a half of several tutorials and regular voting, I'm still not sure about the visual distinction between, say, cytoplasm and plasma membrane. And I have positively no idea how to identify focal adhesions. I wouldn't mind a more expansive tutorial (15 steps?). Overall, I feel very excited about this feature.
Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar 1592	Posted - 2016.01.23 02:46:30 - [25] - Quote Spent 4 hours playing with this on a twitch stream earlier. Generally pretty happy with it. It's fun and simple, and gives me something to do actively rather than sit and spin my ship. Best of all it can be done anywhere as long as I'm logged into the client, so I can do it while sitting cloaked and waiting for a target, or while I'm docked and waiting for a fleet to form up. I did find some issues, so I'm going to split them up based on what part of PD they are affecting. User Interface: Issue: The size of the Project Discovery window isn't adjustable. Description: Some players (like me!) are going to have a lot of spare screen real estate to work with, and we'd like to make use of it. Allowing us to resize the interface would allow for players to use the space they've got available. As it is, the default window size is great for small or compact screens, and all of the UI elements feel like they fit neatly and effectively, but an expanded window size would allow for more effective use by players who want to spend time doing this. It would also help with some other issues I'll list below. Suggested Fix: Make it possible to resize the window within reason. Tthere should, of course, be a minimum size - what we've got now works well for that. Issue: Switching quickly between whole-image and a 'locked' magnified area is awkward. Description: The click-to-lock-viewfinder behavior is useful but in order to view the whole image for a moment and then return to that zoomed in area, one must click in the image to unlock it, move the mouse out, then move the mouse back to where it was originally and click to lock again. Suggested Fix: Add a keypress (or button) to quickly toggle between showing the whole image and the selected magnified area. Issue: Minimap sometimes covers portion of image that user is trying to look at Description: Using the magnifying glass functionality causes a small minimap of the full image to appear in the lower-right corner. If the user is attempting to look at the lower-right corner of the whole image, this map can get in the way. Suggested Fix: Move the minimap out of the larger image entirely. Issue: Magnifying glass functionality on image is awkward around edges of image. Description: Because the magnifying glass functionality uses the relative position of the mouse cursor to the whole image itself, trying to look at things near the edges of the image is difficult because the cursor must be on the edge of the image in order to view things at the very edge, which, as one can imagine, results in the mouse cursor often going off of the image entirely and deactivating the magnification as a result. Suggested Fix: Change the anchoring point for the mouse cursor so that it represents the center of the magnified area; this will also allow for a "deadzone" along the edges of the image. Alternatively, allow the user to click and drag on the minimap (if moved out of the main image, as in the previous suggested fix) to move the viewport around in the larger image. Color Filters: Issue: Need more filters. Description: For some images, the four filter settings we have (red/green/blue, green-only, green/blue, green/red) are not enough to clearly discern certain cellular formations in the image. Suggested Fix: Add filters for red-only, blue-only, and red/blue. Issue: Colorblindness sucks. Description: For people with normal vision, the minigame looks and works great. For people with colorblindness it could become nearly impossible to participate. Suggested Fix: An option for players to select the colors they want to be used instead of RGB would probably be ideal if it is possible. Issue: Some tooltip examples use color filters and some do not. Description: Some of the tooltip examples for the cellular formations are shown under specific color filters. The ability to view tooltip examples under different filters would help users spot them more easily. Suggested Fix: Show any given tooltip example under multiple color filters. Gameplay: Issue: Tooltip examples of the different cellular formations need a little more variety. Description: There are a wide range of correct uses of each of the formations that players are trying to identify. A few more examples of each would help players identify them in some more obscure cases. Suggested Fix: Add some extra examples for each tooltip. Issue: 'Results' page is often wildly inaccurate. Description: The results displayed on images that have not yet reached a "consensus" often appear to be so wildly incorrect that it is either an issue on CCP's end or users are deliberately being lazy *** on sisi and clicking the wrong things and skewing the statistics as a result. Suggested Fix: Not really sure, but it needs to be looked into. If it's an issue of users deliberately skewing the results out of laziness, then a way to eliminate and discourage that needs to be found. Other posters have touched on this already. Issue: Player has no idea when his or her submissions will be factored into their accuracy ratings. Description: There's no way to tell how long it will be before a particular image will have a consensus reached and accuracy ratings back-tracked for users that contributed to that consensus. Suggested Fix:** Include an estimate, either as a percentage of completion, or perhaps a time, for "pending" submissions in the history dropdown. If possible, of course. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar Owner, The Golden Masque
Arista Shahni Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 221	Posted - 2016.01.23 02:56:47 - [26] - Quote Former Rad. Oncology researcher here (fluorescnet immunohistochemistry, cryostat work, fluorescent microscopy and objective image analysis, western blot analysis and 3D gels, some minor experience in proteomics, published author, but shelf life of lab techs is short.. about 10yrs before repetitive stress issues.. so, here I am... bored ...) .. I personally don't care if I get paid in jelly beans, balls of lint, or a pat on the back, as I miss my career so painfully, anything will make me feel better. (so don't look to me to gauge an appropriate reward. I was Academia -- for us, as most know, the work can be the reward. So listen to everyone else. I say - special monocles. >:) ) DLing the launcher and going to look into it this week. My CV is dusty. Can I add this? >:) "I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also. -áAnd as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."
Kyle Hargrove EVE University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2016.01.23 10:33:55 - [27] - Quote Heyo! As someone really interested into gamification, and who has participated in similar projects before: huge props! I really like the idea behind it, and the implementation is also really nice! Aside from "balancing issues", which I'm sure you'll handle appropriately, here are some more suggestions, most of which have been mentioned by other people in this thread: "Colourblind mode": or at least something to make it more accessible to colourblind people. Unfortunately, I cannot help with a constructive solution myself... Because I'm colourblind. But let me know if you need any help with testing! :D "Skip" button: definitely something that is needed for when you can't really recognize one pattern from the other. Also helps colorblind people for when they can't recognize a pattern. Of course, "skipping" would give no rewards and no penalties. Reducing "Transmitting results..." wait time. That looks very fancy, but it's also unrealistically long for transmitting such a small piece of data. I would suggest just speeding it up. Rethink the "Rewards" screen. I see you want to show it after each successful task, to have someone feel actually rewarded for the effort they're doing, but some people might be there for the long haul, and therefore don't really care how many spacepoints they're making for each round, and might be already committed to making 10, 20 rounds. My suggestion here would be to transform the reward panel to a "notification icon" on the Project Discovery window that flashes every time you complete a task. That way you still give the players visual feedback for their successful completion of the task and a possibility to check how much they've made without annoying those users who want to commit more time into the minigame. Keep up the good gameplay and, of course, the science!
Feer Truelight 202	Posted - 2016.01.23 10:45:01 - [28] - Quote - SOE LP is fine, but start with rewards with an accuracy above 50% (prevents random clicking/spamming) - More example pictures - it is hard to distinguish with just one picture - Change description texts to be easily understandable 8/7/2006 3:39:36 PM UTC FreeCCP Promotional Game Time 7 Days Paid 6/1/2012 5:48:57 PM UTC PayPal 1 x 1 Month EVE Subscription + Signup Gé¼19.95 Paid CCP took 6 years to convert me to a (still) paying subscriber :)
Sgt Ocker Kenshin. DARKNESS. 805	Posted - 2016.01.23 13:31:14 - [29] - Quote Scotsman Howard wrote: Can you confirm or not whether the results from Singularity will actually be used in the research project? I ask because you come to us on the singularity server to essentially try to break things and work out the bugs. However, if we are breaking things in this case (by randomly clicking to see how close we can get with the least amount of work), that would be very bad for the intended goals. If I am able to get a 40-50% just by randomly clicking in a short amount of time, you know it will happen on the main server. My advise would be to set the payout structure to be something like this: 0-75% - 0 LP 75-80% - 10LP 80-85% - 50LP 85-90% - 150LP 90-95% - 250LP 96-99% - 450LP 100% - 500LP While the actual ranges and payouts could be adjusted, I think you can see that this method rewards those who actually try and get good at this. This would help discourage people from randomly clicking and ruining SOE LP. The payouts are fine just as they are. It works on diminishing returns. And if you don't think players will random click on TQ just for a bit of LP, you don't know the Eve player base very well. Mini games in general suck, this one will be no different. Likely; It will be farmed (excessively) by a few and used for short term gain by many. This will devalue SOE LP even with 200LP per click return, that alone could net a knowledgeable individual around 120K LP p/h. (risk free) What would 500K per submission do to it? (greed is good until you get too greedy and devalue your income stream) Oh and as this is Eve - Where is the "Risk" vs Reward side of this. It seems this is all reward and quite good rewards for a minority. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Un Lapin Moosearmy I N G L O R I O U S 8	Posted - 2016.01.23 16:58:02 - [30] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: The payouts are fine just as they are. It works on diminishing returns... ...It will be farmed (excessively) by a few and used for short term gain by many... ...This will devalue SOE LP... ...It seems this is all reward and quite good rewards for a minority... So you say the payout is fine, then contradict yourself with the everything you say afterwards? It's not diminishing returns since diminishing returns implies as you increase 1 factor (accuracy) then the output per unit (reward) will reduce. Example of diminishing returns in EVE: Incursions and player numbers in fleet; at a certain threshold increasing players reduces the individual gains. They need to figure out the threshold between random clicking and being bad at this game, below this should be no payout. You shouldn't get paid well for being bad at EVE, especially considering this game requires no skill training or capital investment.



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