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Centauri
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Posted - 2003.12.08 03:18:00 -
[1]
Hello all.
Sold my Armageddon - typically I've flown Amarr ships, as I love the lack of ammo needed for lasers. However, I'm faced with picking an Apocalypse, or a Tempest. I can't afford both 
At any rate, I never mine - ever. I hunt NPC 'rats, and only engage in PvP with player pirates.
The Apoc seems like a death trap for pvp - the lack of mid slots scares me. I was terrified in my Armageddon.
I have no Minmatar BS skills, but I can afford them. I simply need to know which (excluding mining) is the "better" ship in a well-rounded sense.
If the Tempest is better, I'd rather take the week I need to train up to fly it than buy an Apoc.
Cheers!
Centauri,
Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control |
Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.12.08 03:21:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Nirvy on 08/12/2003 03:22:49
Tempest is better for PvP.
More mid slots, harder hitting weapons (with skills, with a lot of skills)faster, better shields etc.
You need a LOT of skills to make a tempest effective, im talking 4m skill points in the skills relating to gunnery, elec/eng missiles etc
Mercenary | The Azath |
Captain Zelnick
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Posted - 2003.12.08 03:25:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Captain Zelnick on 08/12/2003 03:26:00
All my gunnery skills are level 3, and most are level 4. That should be sufficient?
If not, let me know ;0)
Long and short is this BS will be with me "for life". I don't ever want to trade whatever I pick up in on something else preferably.
Any opinions?
Captain Zelnick,
CEO, Star Control
Star Control Webpage
http://www.mechlord.ca/starcontrol/starco5.jpg |
Centauri
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Posted - 2003.12.08 03:33:00 -
[4]
Whoops. Posted with the wrong char there.
Any other opinions?
Centauri,
Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2003.12.08 04:16:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Slithereen on 08/12/2003 04:30:32
Surely the Tempest has better defensive options than an Apoc, but for the money I would probably get a Raven and best yet, a Scorpion, which is cheaper than both a Raven and Tempest. The Scorp can be configured both as an EW or as a defense specialist. The latter means being able to put hardeners for very tough shields and ECCM to make it unjammable.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.12.08 05:15:00 -
[6]
The Tempest is a very good PvP ship. Good slots on all levels, and great stats. You'll never run out of relevent skills to train too 
As a Scorp/Raven pilot, there are few ships I'd rather have by my side. Aren't many that are more dangerous either. Projectiles are a nightmare if you're rigged to skim off lasers with hardners and the mid slots let you do just about anything you could want to do.
The Apoc isn't as bad as you might think... it just doesn't have the flexibility that the Tempest has. If you want the best ship for pushing out the maximum damage over the shortest amount of time, it'll do quite nicely. Just make sure you bring a friend or two to deal with the jamming.
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DrStrangelove
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Posted - 2003.12.08 06:07:00 -
[7]
Tempest 
m0o corp
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2003.12.08 07:44:00 -
[8]
Tempest forever.
That baby can do almost anyhting, except fetch my morning paper
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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AlexisMachine
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Posted - 2003.12.08 08:27:00 -
[9]
Tempest all the way <nods to the doc...>
BTW, doc, when we gonna get ours together again for some more mutual poundage
I miss u sweetums
Unban Lord Zap and Reverend |
Kurtz
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Posted - 2003.12.08 09:36:00 -
[10]
Every ship has its purpose. The Tempest is an excellent NPC platform, and the best all around Battleship. But there are a couple of caveats to this position.
The first being, only a fool uses anything other than projectiles on a Tempest. The ship damage and ROF bonuses are too good to toss away in favor of another weapons system.
The second being all that ammo you have to carry around, for extended operations with a Tempest, I require an industrial as a support ship to keep the ammo topped off. Running 6 artillery cannons on spawns can run through a couple thousand rounds in no time.
On the other hand, I see many of the ôProö farmers out in deep space running Apocs, and I donÆt think they are the loose sphincter types. They seem quite comfortable with only 4 mid slots. The idea of facing down all those beams shies most people from trying to take them out in a one on one situation.
The third thing to consider is the RP angle. Many pure Amarrian corps will take affront to a Mimmater operating an Apocalypse, and this might bait them into taking action they would normally ignore. Perhaps you ran across some of this attitude while flying your Armageddon.
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Bigfoot Hunter
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Posted - 2003.12.08 10:01:00 -
[11]
When you are pvping do you do it alone or in a group? i have flown my tempest in pvp many times but i always go with ew backup if your going solo i would recomend a scorpian u can make it into a sheild tank or ew beast i think people overemphasis how good a raven is 1 missel launcher loaded with defenders does pretty well at stopping the masses of missels it can fire but thats kind of off topic.
Since your limiting it down to the apoc or tempest i think the deciding factor would be which you do more farming or fighting if its more farming then id say apoc it uses no ammo and is decent at pvp. If your going to do more pvp then i would say chose the tempest they are awesome war machines and also have very nice texturing  .
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Fortis cadere, cedere non potest |
Siddy
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Posted - 2003.12.08 10:11:00 -
[12]
read my signature :P
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Golan Trevize
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Posted - 2003.12.08 11:38:00 -
[13]
Id go for the Tempest its more flexible.
Apocalypses can however be VERY deadly and durable in pvp if you know your stuff.
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
Slithereen2
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Posted - 2003.12.08 11:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Slithereen2 on 08/12/2003 11:58:37
 Quote:
The first being, only a fool uses anything other than projectiles on a Tempest. The ship damage and ROF bonuses are too good to toss away in favor of another weapons system.
The second being all that ammo you have to carry around, for extended operations with a Tempest, I require an industrial as a support ship to keep the ammo topped off. Running 6 artillery cannons on spawns can run through a couple thousand rounds in no time.
The second paragraph ironically explains why some Tempest owners use Tachyons instead.
Quote:
The third thing to consider is the RP angle. Many pure Amarrian corps will take affront to a Mimmater operating an Apocalypse, and this might bait them into taking action they would normally ignore. Perhaps you ran across some of this attitude while flying your Armageddon.
I think they're used to it, since ironically, there seems to be more Minmatar who don't really RP and just fly anything they like, including Amarr ships.
And the reason why you see more Armas, Apocs, even Megathrons and Doms than Typhoons or Tempests---even in Minmatar space---is that the Gallente and Amarr ships makes the best miners, and miners seems to be the predominant reason of buying a battleship for many corps. Battleships for PvP is usually only a second or third BS purchase after the initial mining battleship, and even then, Minnies have a choice of keeping with their own race ships, or pick Caldari which remains the hot choice for PvP, especially the Scorpion.
Love Slaves for Bald Headed Amarrian Men |
SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2003.12.08 12:10:00 -
[15]
only thing being that i can see is you need a hell of a lot of training now to make projectiles deadly for you. Using lasers requires bare skills oposed to projectiles.
Although you may have trained them i dont know
!
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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Vegeta
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Posted - 2003.12.08 18:24:00 -
[16]
To make the tempest your going to need the following skills:
Gunnery 5
L Proj. 4
Traj. Analysis 4+
Sharpshooter 4+
Surgical Strike 4+
Motion Prediction 4+
Rapid Firing 4+
Good skills to have is mechanic and hull upgrades 4+, navigation 5 for max speed.
2005.04.25 16:40:42 combat Your 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes LawrenceNewton [WARAG], wrecking for 2706.9 damage.
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darth solo
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Posted - 2003.12.08 20:45:00 -
[17]
Quote:
To make the tempest your going to need the following skills:
Gunnery 5
L Proj. 4
Traj. Analysis 4+
Sharpshooter 4+
Surgical Strike 4+
Motion Prediction 4+
Rapid Firing 4+
Good skills to have is mechanic and hull upgrades 4+, navigation 5 for max speed.
And, battleship lvl 4, u get 5% quicker firing with it, and that makes 20% diff.
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.12.08 23:06:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nirvy on 08/12/2003 23:07:15
Quote:
To make the tempest your going to need the following skills:
Gunnery 5
L Proj. 4
Traj. Analysis 4+
Sharpshooter 4+
Surgical Strike 4+
Motion Prediction 4+
Rapid Firing 4+
Good skills to have is mechanic and hull upgrades 4+, navigation 5 for max speed.
I have to recommend:
Lvl 5 Electronics/Engineering also, especially if you want to go for 4 or 5 1400 and the rest launchers.
Lvl 5 missile Ops for Cruise missiles and a few FoF's
LvL 5 Drones
Lvl 4 ESO, Shield Ops, Mechanics, Hull upgrades, Weapon upgrades
Mercenary | The Azath |
Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.12.09 02:53:00 -
[19]
1 Co-Processor in low slot
Gyroscopes in the rest of the low slots
2 Tracking computers in med slots
Lvl 4 rapid firing
Lvl 4 Minmatar BS skill
Lvl 4 Large Projectile Turret skill
Lvl 4 Motion prediction skill
Lvl 5 Enginneering skill
Lvl 5 Electronics skill
The rest is whatever you think you want/need but those skills and devices is what will directly effect your damage amounts, ROF and number of 1400 mm installed.
Using those skills and devices should get your ROF close to 10 secs and avg damage of around 450 per shot per 1400 mm installed with wrecking shots around 1000.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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MrBinary
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Posted - 2003.12.09 05:55:00 -
[20]
The Tempest is a beautiful ship. You will learn to love its capabilities.
It may not look as neat and shiny like other battleships...but it makes nice holes. 
Minmatar forever!
"[ 2004.05.20 20:11:42 ] Hodal Xibur > Die MrBinary" |
T'Kahr
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Posted - 2003.12.09 06:23:00 -
[21]
Quote:
It may not look as neat and shiny like other battleships...but it makes nice holes.
Tastes differ, I think the tempest is the coolest looking battle ship in the game.
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Lentia
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Posted - 2003.12.09 06:49:00 -
[22]
Depends on what youre using in for. I use a Megathron for mining and have trained up lasers for rat farming, though may switch back to hybrids if the un-nerf delivers.
I use a Raven for PvP. Apocs are great ships for mining, farming, and if you know what you're doing for PvP as a support ship.
The general take on tempest is you need lvl 5 in everything but at that point its a very tough ship to beat.
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Siddy
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Posted - 2003.12.09 08:43:00 -
[23]
and the sheer Sight of Tempest at range 20-30 kliks Strike Fear in hearts of ur enemys !
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toaster
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Posted - 2003.12.09 17:21:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Edited by: Slithereen on 08/12/2003 04:30:32
Surely the Tempest has better defensive options than an Apoc, but for the money I would probably get a Raven and best yet, a Scorpion, which is cheaper than both a Raven and Tempest. The Scorp can be configured both as an EW or as a defense specialist. The latter means being able to put hardeners for very tough shields and ECCM to make it unjammable.
Unless something happened in hte last patch, mid slot ECCM mods definiletly don't make you unjammable. They break the jam for a short time which in real life amounts to very little. By the time you fire a volley, the ECCM units 'reset' and you're all over again. And around and around you go until ur dead.
Did something change in the last patch?
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Alan Bell
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Posted - 2003.12.09 17:23:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Slithereen on 08/12/2003 04:30:32
Surely the Tempest has better defensive options than an Apoc, but for the money I would probably get a Raven and best yet, a Scorpion, which is cheaper than both a Raven and Tempest. The Scorp can be configured both as an EW or as a defense specialist. The latter means being able to put hardeners for very tough shields and ECCM to make it unjammable.
Unless something happened in hte last patch, mid slot ECCM mods definiletly don't make you unjammable. They break the jam for a short time which in real life amounts to very little. By the time you fire a volley, the ECCM units 'reset' and you're all over again. And around and around you go until ur dead.
Did something change in the last patch?
mmm.......eccm makes it harder to jam you by makin ur sensor stronger.......for instance making ur sensor in a category 19, so it wld take 4 race specific ecm rather than 3. but it wld never stop in the middle of it
http://coldfusion.online-guild.com |
toaster
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Posted - 2003.12.09 17:32:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Slithereen on 08/12/2003 04:30:32
Surely the Tempest has better defensive options than an Apoc, but for the money I would probably get a Raven and best yet, a Scorpion, which is cheaper than both a Raven and Tempest. The Scorp can be configured both as an EW or as a defense specialist. The latter means being able to put hardeners for very tough shields and ECCM to make it unjammable.
Unless something happened in hte last patch, mid slot ECCM mods definiletly don't make you unjammable. They break the jam for a short time which in real life amounts to very little. By the time you fire a volley, the ECCM units 'reset' and you're all over again. And around and around you go until ur dead.
Did something change in the last patch?
mmm.......eccm makes it harder to jam you by makin ur sensor stronger.......for instance making ur sensor in a category 19, so it wld take 4 race specific ecm rather than 3. but it wld never stop in the middle of it
Yes this is true, but I've done some testing on this. I don't wanna hijack this thread but ECCM mid slot units don't stop, they 'recycle' so to speak. For instance, say ur in an apoc (radar 13). A scorp comes along and jams you at 15 (just for this example). Your jammed... then u hit ur handy-dandy ECCM mid slot which bring you up by 3 (now radar 16). You have successfull broken the jam, however in 10 seconds (or however long the 'activation time' is on the ECCM unit), the unit will 'autorepeat/recycle' and you will be jammed again.
Unless something in ECCM changed in the last patch, this is how it goes. With the current locking times of BSs, basically if u jammed ur farked. If you don't believe me, I will meet you anywhere and show ya. 
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Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.12.09 23:15:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Slithereen on 08/12/2003 04:30:32
Surely the Tempest has better defensive options than an Apoc, but for the money I would probably get a Raven and best yet, a Scorpion, which is cheaper than both a Raven and Tempest. The Scorp can be configured both as an EW or as a defense specialist. The latter means being able to put hardeners for very tough shields and ECCM to make it unjammable.
Unless something happened in hte last patch, mid slot ECCM mods definiletly don't make you unjammable. They break the jam for a short time which in real life amounts to very little. By the time you fire a volley, the ECCM units 'reset' and you're all over again. And around and around you go until ur dead.
Did something change in the last patch?
mmm.......eccm makes it harder to jam you by makin ur sensor stronger.......for instance making ur sensor in a category 19, so it wld take 4 race specific ecm rather than 3. but it wld never stop in the middle of it
Yes this is true, but I've done some testing on this. I don't wanna hijack this thread but ECCM mid slot units don't stop, they 'recycle' so to speak. For instance, say ur in an apoc (radar 13). A scorp comes along and jams you at 15 (just for this example). Your jammed... then u hit ur handy-dandy ECCM mid slot which bring you up by 3 (now radar 16). You have successfull broken the jam, however in 10 seconds (or however long the 'activation time' is on the ECCM unit), the unit will 'autorepeat/recycle' and you will be jammed again.
Unless something in ECCM changed in the last patch, this is how it goes. With the current locking times of BSs, basically if u jammed ur farked. If you don't believe me, I will meet you anywhere and show ya.
I saw somewhere that the ECCM recycle bug is been fixed. So soon it will not work in that way any more
Mercenary | The Azath |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2003.12.09 23:33:00 -
[28]
I think the Typhoon and the Armaggedon is the coolest looking battleships in the game.
The hollowed tube look of the Typhoon is just totally menacing, a really evil looking ship.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Naz Farooq
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Posted - 2003.12.10 00:20:00 -
[29]
Quote:
The hollowed tube look of the Typhoon is just totally menacing, a really evil looking ship.
I think it looks like the bad guy ship from Galaxy Quest.
Sure, everyone supports saving Einstein's brain, but when you put it in the body of a Great White Shark, suddenly you've "gone too far". |
Pojo
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Posted - 2003.12.10 11:03:00 -
[30]
I am currently using the Typhoon and I am very impressed with this mini-tempest. As I dont have the high skills needed for a tempest I will be using the typhoon for a long time. The skills and tactics should cary over extremely well when I decide to jump into a better typhoon.
I say get the tempest or maybe consider using the typhoon as a test bed.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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