EVE Search - Possible Basilisk Fix (they want to promote support ships, right?)

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Possible Basilisk Fix (they want to promote support ships, right?)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.27 16:33:00 - [1] Since last summer i have an alt who can use one fo these lovely spacefaring chunks of metal - the Basilisk. Having used them in various PVP and PVE environments, i came up with a few things that i believe could be changed in order to make it a better support vessel, especially in PVP situations, where the use of these ships, in my opinion, is sorely lacking. First, let's take a look at the current state of the ship: Positive sides: + Decent ship bonuses + Sexy looking + Cheap + Relatively easy to train for, most requirement skills are very useful Downsides: - Dies very easily due to moderate resists and low HP - Several cruisers and most battleships can perform the same role with alot less skill requirements, and less specialised equipment - (Relatively) Expensive to fit (T2 rechargers, T2 transporters, CPR's, rigs) For the PVE side, the advantages are easily distinguished. Since most situations do not involve target switching by hostiles, you warp in your damage dealer, get aggro, warp in the support ship, start tanking and killing. A moderately expensive setup with medium shield transporters, named cap rechargers and no rigs fitted will suffice for nearly all mission runners and most complexes. However, it's the PVP side i'm interested in. The nature of PVP, with alot of burst damage and target calling from both sides requires quick responses and burst healing power. The low hitpoints, moderate resists and zero offensive capabilities of the Basilisk will have it fall victim to the first assault frigate or cruiser that encounters it alone. Of course, it shouldn't be flown without proper support, but if a single battleship can one-volley it in almost any situation (tempest w/ EMP), what's the use? So, i have something to ask CCP and some propositions to make depending on the answer: What is the intended use of the ship (need to be more specific than it is now!) I'll list some options with my propositions. The NPC-ing support vessel. In this case, the ship is nearly fine as it is. It can't and doesn't need to take or deal damage, and it can heal others with a steady stream of shield HP. One minor suggestion i might make is, give it more highslots and slightly more grid (around 700 versus the 600 base it gets now) The PVP-ing burst support This is where it gets interesting. To perform this role, the ship would need more HP (roughly double), the ability to better accomodate cap batteries to support burst repping and above all, something to increase the 'alpha strike' of repping modules. Proposed fixes: double the hitpoints, 800 instead of 600 base grid, 500% bonus to shield transporter rep amount, 500% penalty to shield transporter cycle time and cap use. The i-can-fight-back PVP support option Another, separate, interesting niche that needs filling IMO. As it is now, this niche is non-existant. Some existing ships could be modified to fill it but nobody does cause they'd rather have a full damage dealer instead. Proposed changes: 50% more overall hitpoints. One more medslot and 900 instead of 600 base grid, 8 instead of 6 highslots, 4 instead of 2 launcher hardpoints and replace the shield transporter range bonus by a 10% per level bonus to missile kinetic damage for assault, heavy assault and heavy missiles, and give it a 25M3 drone bay. I do not fly the other races support vessels, but apart from the alliance tournament it seems to me their roles are poorly filled in the current state of PVP in Eve. I would really like to see these ships become of more use. Maybe the above ideas could be incorporated into different tier versions of the ship (which sounds really neat, different support vessels for different situations), but of course, that is up to CCP to decide. I shall now put on my flame-suit, and start barricading the doors. Comments and questions welcome. - Sok. Basilisk Fitting Link
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.01.27 20:25:00 - [2] I agree 100% /signed Logistic Ships are costly, and the have no way to stay alive long enough to be of much use. I can use a Basilisk currently and I don't care to buy it. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
RogueWing GIT-R-DUN Southern Connection	Posted - 2007.01.27 21:14:00 - [3] Just adding a drone bay to the Logistics ships (and a possible bonus for logistics drones) would be a HUGE boost for this class of ships. [G-R-D].....we've buried 50 kittens up to their necks in the yard......join us or we get out the lawn mower.
Nether Haze	Posted - 2007.01.27 22:28:00 - [4] Indeed, if they had a little dronebay for either a little extra damage or a little extra remote repping, i think i might get one or two ^^
Ezra Gallente Calista Industries	Posted - 2007.01.27 22:39:00 - [5] Originally by: RogueWing Just adding a drone bay to the Logistics ships (and a possible bonus for logistics drones) would be a HUGE boost for this class of ships. Interestingly enough, I recall someone commenting that an Exequeror made a better remote repair ship than the Oneiros due to the fact that the Exeq could run 4 medium repair drones instead of 1 medium 1 small, and that difference was enough to make up for the additional remote reppers you could run on the Oneiros. I haven't gotten around to confirming this yet, but given how powerful repair drones are I wouldn't be surprised. At least in the case of the Oneiros, a much larger drone bay is needed. ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Calista Industries
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.27 22:44:00 - [6] Linkage
Amarr knight Mercenaries of Andosia Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.27 23:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Sokratesz Positive sides: + Cheap T2 ships are only cheap when they are close to useless. Make them useful and watch the price go sky high.
Denrace Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.28 01:11:00 - [8] Nice thread, been a long time coming. I believe the biggest issue is: There is no reason to have a Support Ship in a gang when it would be far more useful to add to the "blob" with an extra gank-fitted Battleship. Right now, extra DPS means more than extra repair abilities. While I used to fly logistics ships heavily (and get nothing but stick from "true" pvpers) it was certainly nice to save many peoples asses. However, we've gotta need a big reason to keep off killmails voluntarily. Battleship-sized logistics please. Den ________________________________________
Tactus the Organ Grinder and Company Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.28 03:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Sokratesz + Sexy looking fat bottom girls, you make the rockin' world go 'round. These ships need a BIG drone bay, double HP, and bonuses to fitting gang mods.
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.28 09:19:00 - [10] I wouldn't want to give it too much of a drone bay since gallente rule that area, and i hope that a modified T2 exequeror will have some more useful boni and drone bay (like 250m3 bay, 50% bonus to repair drone HP and rep amount per logistics skill level) Basilisk Fitting Link
Caletha	Posted - 2007.01.28 12:18:00 - [11] The ability to insta-lock your gang members -or- allow you to use remote reps without targeting would benefit this ship greatly as well. Both not hindered by any ECM / Dampning / etc. That should be added to carriers too
Lakotnik	Posted - 2007.01.28 22:13:00 - [12] Low HP is a problem till you fit an extender or a plate. Plate preferably. Then you need just a couple of resits modules and you have some buffer on the ship. Add an AB, put small signature in consideration and you have some tank. If you re planning to tank an entire fleet in this - impossible in any ship. Well tbh i am not using the basilisk, but guardian is just good. Not perfect, but decent healing ship. Smile, tomorrow will be worse.
Magr Rose Contention Inc	Posted - 2007.01.28 22:45:00 - [13] IMO take off all the weapon slots but add a good sized drone bay and give these poor prime targets bigger shield HP as well.
Ariso	Posted - 2007.01.28 23:10:00 - [14] Edited by: Ariso on 28/01/2007 23:08:50 I'm just gonna repeat what others have said in other topics like this "area of effect". Dont have the remote reppers work only in active mode, only on logistic ships have a passive benefit, diminishing with the number of ships around the logistic ship. Plucking numbers out of my head example, with 4 medium reppers 1000 armour or shield; depending on the repper type, is dished out to whoever is within the repair range. So 1 ship gets the lot, 2 get 500 each etc etc. Plus with the normal remote repping you can concentrate on the primaries more while still covering people who are taking damage as secondaries.
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2007.01.29 07:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Ariso Edited by: Ariso on 28/01/2007 23:08:50 I'm just gonna repeat what others have said in other topics like this "area of effect". Dont have the remote reppers work only in active mode, only on logistic ships have a passive benefit, diminishing with the number of ships around the logistic ship. Plucking numbers out of my head example, with 4 medium reppers 1000 armour or shield; depending on the repper type, is dished out to whoever is within the repair range. So 1 ship gets the lot, 2 get 500 each etc etc. Plus with the normal remote repping you can concentrate on the primaries more while still covering people who are taking damage as secondaries. well having a localized effect of logistic woudl only motivate blobbing more and as i understand it ccp want to avoid blobbing so i guess that is out of the question. what most of you may have failed to consider aswell are the low sigradius. support cruisers needs speed to stay alive. most support cruisers do awesome against bs fleets cause bs simply cant hit em. of course that is a downside on caldari ships bar the crow and flycatcher all caldari ships are ment to be stationary ships almost, and only spewing out missiles. i say increase the speed on support cruiser so they with decent setup can do 4km/s. add more sensors so they cant be so easily dampn and jammed. and increase range on support mods even further to tear up the blob even more
Dita Jin	Posted - 2007.01.29 08:06:00 - [16] If these bonuses was to be implemented in a good way, then we might actaully se the recon cruisers do what they were intended to do from the beginning: Anti Support Support
Chi Prime Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.29 09:03:00 - [17] Addding a gangmod capability to the logistic ships could be nice, to give them a further advantage over their t1 counterparts.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.29 13:16:00 - [18] Edited by: Jaketh Ivanes on 29/01/2007 13:19:31 I think its funny that so many Fleet Logistic complain that they are primary and therefor useless. First off, any ship that is destroyed is useless Second, why is it called primary if it's useless? (Food for thought) Perhaps its the tactical/strategical use that is not yet perfected by us (players). I do like the logistic ships and have seen their use in small encounters. The way i see the problem is, that the log ship can't stay out of range of the opposing fleet while staying in range of those it has to help. The opposing fleets BS's has enough range to choose either a BS or the Logistic ship without moving. Making either weapon range shorter or logistic repair range longer, could solve the problem. That will force enemy fleet to move to reach the logistic ships. EDIT: Wish i could write what i meant to write
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.29 13:23:00 - [19] I just sold my Basilisk bpo. Wouldn't surprise me if CCP boost is a lot now.
Chi Prime Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.29 13:36:00 - [20] Originally by: Shin Ra I just sold my Basilisk bpo. Wouldn't surprise me if CCP boost is a lot now. hehehe, just your luck, eh?
Djafa	Posted - 2007.01.29 13:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Denrace Nice thread, been a long time coming. I believe the biggest issue is: There is no reason to have a Support Ship in a gang when it would be far more useful to add to the "blob" with an extra gank-fitted Battleship. Right now, extra DPS means more than extra repair abilities. While I used to fly logistics ships heavily (and get nothing but stick from "true" pvpers) it was certainly nice to save many peoples asses. However, we've gotta need a big reason to keep off killmails voluntarily. Battleship-sized logistics please. Den I agree with this post. Until the blob issue isn't fixed, logistic ships wont have their place in a large fleet. They are useful in for PVE and small gang PVP but thats all. And give them bigger dronebays. Someone said something about a gangmod, i dont like it, gangmods are for bc's and command ships, logistics should stay with their role and this is healing other ships.
Magunus The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.01.29 14:25:00 - [22] I'd also like to see the cap requirements of all remote repairers doubled, and the bonuses on logistics ships adjusted to compensate. As it is right now, most tech 2 ships have a role at which no other ship can do as well, while logistics ships don't. Range doesn't matter that much for ratting because you can force aggro so you know which ship is going to get hit. For PvP, remotes aren't used much in any case, for many of the reasons stated above. Sometimes it's just a matter of having the wrong ship for the job. Not much use taking a basilisk along with a mostly amarr fleet. To correct this, I think logistics ships should be able to fit 1 (and only 1) type of gang module. Give the basilisk a bonus to fitting the shield resist module and none of the others. This keeps the command ships very usable, but boosts the logistics ships because they'll be able to boost shield resists even on non-shield ships. Let them fit up to 3 and stack them, but don't give them the HP or recharge bonus ones. --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'
Chi Prime Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.29 14:41:00 - [23] Edited by: Chi Prime on 29/01/2007 14:38:15 Originally by: Djafa Someone said something about a gangmod, i dont like it, gangmods are for bc's and command ships, logistics should stay with their role and this is healing other ships. That is the thing, a gangmod would not take away their intended role. By allowing someone who prefers the support role to choose a logistic ship over a command ship and thus swapping some firepower and gangmod boni for logistic bonuses you give such support oriented players more flexibility. As it is such players are confined to passive support (through gangmods).
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.29 16:03:00 - [24] Originally by: Denrace While I used to fly logistics ships heavily (and get nothing but stick from "true" pvpers) it was certainly nice to save many peoples asses. However, we've gotta need a big reason to keep off killmails voluntarily. Good point. Given how people can whine about their kill stats vs. yours, and the game already knows if you're assisting in a kill (flagging rules), you should added on the killmail.
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.01.30 13:53:00 - [25] Bumpeh...do more combat pilots have pvp experience with logistics ships and can thus comment on my ideas? Basilisk Fitting Link
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.30 13:56:00 - [26] No-one flies them, thats evidence enough for me so I agree completely.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.30 15:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Sokratesz Bumpeh...do more combat pilots have pvp experience with logistics ships and can thus comment on my ideas? Ya'know, I don't think they exist.
Tequila Sunshine	Posted - 2007.02.01 12:56:00 - [28] I am a fleet Logistic (Basilisk) pilot I agree that its useless in big fleet battles not the fact that your are called primary, its the fact that you cant keep up with the dmg the opposing force is dealing. "The i-can-fight-back PVP support option" That i don't like at all. I find it soooo funny when i see people fitting guns or launchers on a Logistic ship. Its a f**ken ambulance, you take care of people not shoot them the cool thing with the Logistic ships is that you don't get aggressed for assisting people so you can always jump a gate or docked when you are called primary, if you shoot you cant. I agree with some of the things you put in there but not all. I'd like to see 300% increase of Shield HP I'd like to see gang modules on these ships I'd like to see more useful UI for Logistic pilots f.ex see the health of of everyone in your fleet not just your squad, and or get notification who is taking the most damage who is shield tanking who is armor tanking and such things. I have Logistics 5 so i can run (with the right setup) 4 large shield transports for ever. The basilisk is by far the best logistic ship in the game CCP might want to start with balancing the other ships first :)
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.01 13:24:00 - [29] I don't use a logistics in a gang, because it dies too easily, and in addition, people fly ships with different styles of tank. Don't use them in a fleet, because they die too easily, and ...well the way fleet fights go is that primary dies fast. In and of itself, it's not all that bad, but the limiting factor in a fleet is always numbers of pilots. A logistics ship would have to compete with another BS in terms of 'usefulness to the fleet'. Oh, and logistics drones are actaully fairly handy substitutes. Suggestions to fix: Give them bonuses to all forms of logistics mod. Bias racially as you will, but a basilisk needs to be good at shield repping and cap transferring, but at least acceptable at armour repairing. - 20% cap use reduction, and 100% range bonus to 'primary' logistics/level of logistics. - 10% cap use and 50% range boost to 'all other' forms of logistics/level Also, HAC or commandship grade tank. You're still a defenseless nugget, but at least you have a chance of staying alive. In fleet thought? Well, the problems in fleet, is that 'primary = dead'. You need a lot of repping to keep up with that, (in addition to mixed tank styles) especially if you have lag to contend with. So, perhaps some kind of 'automatic' shield transfer? Target a bunch of people, activate the transfer mods, and it'll fire as soon as they're down 'a bit'. At least, until you run out of cap :). Target 10 people with your logistics, and have it automatically repping would make it worth bringing to a fleet. Especially if you can do a high 'burst' repair, somehow.

finnz.	Posted - 2007.02.02 23:34:00 - [30] Very nice ideas in here ill ask the Tux to read this.


Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.