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Larkonis Trassler Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.03 00:24:00 - [61] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Originally by: Venkul Mul Lets try putting in another form: Changing the ownership rules don't influence only the wrecks but a lot of things. So, even if the Dev think to implement some change about that, it will require time. For example? Cans Drones Ships Gang gestion of ownership ecc. Every item has an ownership, so changing something in the rules and programming can have effect on something apparently unrelated. Look the effect of changing the gang system on ownership. Now, if the member of a gang that has destroyed the ship and generate the wreck dock or leave the system, the ownership of the wreck change from the gang to the player only, starting an aggression timer if someone in the gang take from the wreck. I am not against changing the rules, but I tink that it will require time, and careful testing. Your flawed logic is making my head hurt. I can leave an NPC wreck of mine in a system, someone can loot from it, I can come back and they'll still be flagged. Player/Gang A engages Player B. Player B is destroyed. Player B's wreck becomes ownership of Player/Gang A's and Player B's Repective Corps. Simple. Noone is talking about drones or ships or any of that rubbish. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Elefantmanden Gallente x13 Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.03 09:22:00 - [62] signed
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.03 10:35:00 - [63] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Originally by: Venkul Mul Lets try putting in another form: Changing the ownership rules don't influence only the wrecks but a lot of things. So, even if the Dev think to implement some change about that, it will require time. For example? Cans Drones Ships Gang gestion of ownership ecc. Every item has an ownership, so changing something in the rules and programming can have effect on something apparently unrelated. Look the effect of changing the gang system on ownership. Now, if the member of a gang that has destroyed the ship and generate the wreck dock or leave the system, the ownership of the wreck change from the gang to the player only, starting an aggression timer if someone in the gang take from the wreck. I am not against changing the rules, but I tink that it will require time, and careful testing. Your flawed logic is making my head hurt. I can leave an NPC wreck of mine in a system, someone can loot from it, I can come back and they'll still be flagged. Player/Gang A engages Player B. Player B is destroyed. Player B's wreck becomes ownership of Player/Gang A's and Player B's Repective Corps. Simple. Noone is talking about drones or ships or any of that rubbish. It is simple, read it, point by point: 1) We are speaking of ownership of wrecks 2) ownership is not limited to wrecks 3) changing ownership rules will change it for wrecks and all not wrecks alike got it?
Klasper x13 Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.03 12:00:00 - [64] I totally agree with this thread. Signed
Larkonis Trassler Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.03 20:18:00 - [65] Originally by: Venkul Mul Nonsence got it? No, you need to explain better than that. Your logic is flawed with regards to drones and what not anyway. If drones are left in space, anyone can grab them. If a ship is left empty in space, anyone can grab it. ETC ETC. Please use some actualy logic to explain how ownership of wrecks would affect this and cans? ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.03 21:57:00 - [66] Edited by: Crazy Tasty on 03/02/2007 21:54:20 Quote: It is simple, read it, point by point: 1) We are speaking of ownership of wrecks 2) ownership is not limited to wrecks 3) changing ownership rules will change it for wrecks and all not wrecks alike got it? So, your aurgument being? The only change needed is to PvP wrecks. NPCs are fine, cans are fine, drones are fine. The change is pretty simple, instead of the person owning thier own wreck as it is now, the gang/corp/person that landed the final blow will now own it. Coding for an entire gang to have ownership would probably be difficult as I don't think a system is currently inplace for that. However, makeing the corp/person that lands the final blow the owner of that wreck would be pretty simple, as that same system is already used for NPC wrecks. You seem to think that this is an immense programming challenge and that one change in ownership rules could screw the entire system. Do you have knowledge of the code behind this game? Do you have any programming experiance at all? How bout we let the devs decide how to impliment it.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.04 00:12:00 - [67] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/02/2007 00:10:35 Originally by: Crazy Tasty Edited by: Crazy Tasty on 03/02/2007 21:54:20 Quote: It is simple, read it, point by point: 1) We are speaking of ownership of wrecks 2) ownership is not limited to wrecks 3) changing ownership rules will change it for wrecks and all not wrecks alike got it? So, your aurgument being? The only change needed is to PvP wrecks. NPCs are fine, cans are fine, drones are fine. The change is pretty simple, instead of the person owning thier own wreck as it is now, the gang/corp/person that landed the final blow will now own it. Coding for an entire gang to have ownership would probably be difficult as I don't think a system is currently inplace for that. However, makeing the corp/person that lands the final blow the owner of that wreck would be pretty simple, as that same system is already used for NPC wrecks. You seem to think that this is an immense programming challenge and that one change in ownership rules could screw the entire system. Do you have knowledge of the code behind this game? Do you have any programming experiance at all? How bout we let the devs decide how to impliment it. As not I, not you, and no one it this thread know the coding of the program we can make hypotesis. So my reply is an hypotesist of what I think is linked to the proposed modify (note: this are the things I can see, and so a Developer can certanly see and address them, the bug come for the things not so easy to see and linked to the modify): 1) "The only change needed is to PvP wrecks." This items exist? For all I know the items are "NPC wrecks" "PC wrecks". NPC wrecks are produced when a NPC ship is destroyed and the wrecks is property of the one giving the killing blow or is gang; PC wrecks are produced when a PC ship is destroyed (by other PC, CONCORD, gate guns, rats, ecc) and are property of the owner of the destroyed ship. If you simply change ownership of PC wrecks to the one giving the killing blow, without other changes, the problems start: who is the owner of a PC wrecks destroied by NPC? the gate guns, CONCORD (the rats aren't a problem as they are automatically ostiles), factions navy? No one? If after losing a ship to CONCORD you return after the end of the aggro timer to pick up your can, but the can is CONCORD property they will attack you again? Or if the NPC don't get ownership, the wreck of your ship is free for the taking by everyone? (as you aren't the owner) 2) we can have duble ownership of the wreck, as suggested by the OP, both the PC losing the ship and the one killing it. Currently that is not implemented, so it will require some serious change in code. And again when a NPC give the killing blow some problem can be generated. 3) Cans: right, they are no wrecks, but they have ownership. The programming change the rules of ownership. They can be affected or not. Hard to judge. For sure the coding of the wrecks ownership is based on the coding of the can ownership, as the can existed before the wrecks. So to change one and not the other the two set of ownership rules must be separated. Can be simple or complex, again an unknow as we don't know trhe code. There is still a good chance that some unmodified bit of programming can cause conflicts. 4) ships, drones, ecc: this is more far fetched, but ship ownership is used to judge who has laid the final blow, ecc.; for example, if you hanger CONCORD, and you have an empty ship near the site where you have angered CONCORD the will blow not only the ship where you are in, but the empty ship too (tested on Sisi some time ago). Start touching ownership and even there some bug can develope (it is not guarantee to develope, I stress can). You are totally entitled to think that it is simple. An opinion from a Dev would be wellcome as it will give a clear reply by someone with access to the fact.
Larkonis Trassler Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.04 04:09:00 - [68] Originally by: Venkul Mul Blah So really all you're doing is making assumptions on programming difficulties you think may be encountered (leave that to the devs, K THX) rather than discussing the actual issue here. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.04 10:55:00 - [69] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/02/2007 10:51:41 The issue is "we want this fixed now, better yesterday", I am trying to say it will not be so fast. And why.
BigBoy Dan FW Inc Kith of Venal	Posted - 2007.02.05 21:57:00 - [70] You got that! Ore thiefs should be aggressed by the Sentry guns outside stations/stargate aswell :) Then you can loot their stuff along with the stuff you alreayd had :) Oh and hey Preatorian :) Remember me :) Sig must be less than 24000 bytes with max dimensions 400W x 120H - Cathath
Alangiv Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.06 01:36:00 - [71] -Signed. I've lost 2 much loot to bastards who lie in wait with their fast little ships and loot stuff after a hard and dangerous fight. If someone steals from a can then the get a 15 minute aggression countdown. Why is it not the same for this? Also, sitting right next to the wreck will not always guarantee I get the loot - there is always the issue of lag or if we both take it at the same time (I forget what that problem is called in DB speak). At the very least I want to be able to punish the cheapskate git who takes my stuff.
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.06 10:18:00 - [72] lol ______________________________________
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Riggers Incorporated	Posted - 2007.02.06 15:41:00 - [73] As i've said in an earlier post, it comes down to the definiton of ownership. If you kill me, what I have on my body is not yours. It is still mine and will be distributed in accordance with my will. I cannot stop you from taking it, but neither can i stop the next man from taking it. Translated to EvE, it means the wreck that lies infront of you from your latest victim, is still his. You have no more claim over it than the git that "steals your stuff", which will be flagged towards me as the rules dictate. If you want retaliatory rights, got to low sec space and pirate (like the real pirates do ). This is only a high sec pirate "problem". Annoying, yes, but part of the rules of the game.
Mathsage	Posted - 2007.02.06 16:26:00 - [74] The only way this would make sense, in in the case of wardecced corporations. Even still, that's a matter between them. I'm glad, however, that I'm not the only one that sees the hillarious irony in pirates complaining of being pirated. The system is fine as is. There is no reason to make high sec pirating viable.
Roddic Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.02.07 03:03:00 - [75] Leave it alone..... the anger you feel when this happens to you.... the uselessness you feel..... this is what it feels like to a miner when a ore thief hits. god i hope its the miners stealing your stuff,.... thats irony isn't it.....thats Justice.
Avoid Gallente Captain Morgan Society Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 06:11:00 - [76] First, when I was in war against privateer, I got 0 loot. I did kill a good amount of targets and had lots of fun, but lost 100m or so in the process, because I didnÆt loot a thing. It would properly have helped, if you selected to die an other place, then the most used station or gate in eve. Now as a privateer, i get plenty of loot. 80%-90% of the time I get the loot. The reason why YOU 0o0Preatorian0o0, dont get any loot. Is that you fight were you do. Tbh im happy that it dont pay out to kill black screeners outside 4 4. Cause thats what you kill outside 4 4. Any normal player, will redock if there is 5 newbs outside the station in big red flashing ships. So basically you need to get your bip out on the field and do some kills other places then jita. It would properly help allot on the reputation privateers have atm. Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes "Here was the brand of the cigerates i smoke" I don't smoke - Cortes
eXtas Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 09:20:00 - [77] its really anoying... wouldnt be that bad if was just in the hub systems, u can avoid them.. but when a damn noobcorp rifter is folowing you around all over empire and takes all loot it starts to be a problem
Templer Relleg x13 Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 09:24:00 - [78] Originally by: eXtas its really anoying... wouldnt be that bad if was just in the hub systems, u can avoid them.. but when a damn noobcorp rifter is folowing you around all over empire and takes all loot it starts to be a problem Yes. I have seen bloody haulers in noob corps with random 1337 names follow me, and grab my loot before i can, because i orbit the target at 15km.
Dravin Dread	Posted - 2007.03.11 11:37:00 - [79] Originally by: Templer Relleg Yes. I have seen bloody haulers in noob corps with random 1337 names follow me, and grab my loot before i can, because i orbit the target at 15km. Oh no, someone stole my grief loot, waaaa! Karma sucks, deal with it.
gerku Serial Killers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 12:36:00 - [80] I agree with this i had noob alts folow me around system even folow me for 5 jumps locking me etc just rdy 2 nick my loot or sombodey else his loot i don't think that's part off playing a game just logging on every day just 2 steal loot ???? it must be changed cpp must stop helping npc and mission runners every time and think abit about the pvp's ?? nerf nano's ??? help vs loot stealer's ???
A'ruhn Shadow Core Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.11 16:58:00 - [81] Edited by: A''ruhn on 11/03/2007 16:58:31 You know.... there is this magical place in eve, where PVP is supposed to happen, where there are no problems with people stealing loot and not getting shot at... Its called 0.0 space... you should try it sometime instead of hiding where the targets are all carebears and noobs just now learning to play. Go out and play with the big-dogs. I mean, if you guys just want to hide in empire, and play it safe, then go ahead, but realize that your **** will get stolen from you.
Icome4u IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.03.12 10:24:00 - [82] Wrecks are FFA... if you don't want people taking your wrecks then fight in low sec

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