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SOO its normal to be killed while offline

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Rowan Mayfair	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:25:00 - [31] He's a pirate, that's his job.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:26:00 - [32] CCP needs to fix it so ships don't warp out of the POS bubble when logging.
Valrandir Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: Valrandir Originally by: canadus hmm i killed about 3 rats in system prior to warping to pos and chatting yes.. There you go This loss is within game mechanics and should not be reimbursed. lol shooting wrecks to create an aggro timer is not within game mechanics its an exploit. Shooting wrecks create an aggro because the game mechanics make it so. It might be an hidden feature or a bug, but it's still how it works. Let's not get to the point where losing a ship mean spamming a few petitions to get it reimbursed everytime. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:31:00 - [34] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 30/01/2007 16:28:29 Originally by: Valrandir Shooting wrecks create an aggro because the flawed game mechanics make it so. Fixed. Use of flawed game mechanics to achieve an end, not intended to occur as a result of that action, is exploiting. Its the same as changing people's roles to stop them leaving corp while imposing maximum corp tax on them. Yes its part of the game. No its not meant to be like that. Yes its an exploit. The aggro timer is there to discourage logging off in combat situations, not to give cheap kills to people who dont have the balls to face their opponent while he is actually online and can shoot back, or don't have the brains to catch him and cause an aggro timer while he is actually playing the game.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:33:00 - [35] Actually the rweck shooty thing is petitionable. If a gm think you have been doign that on purpose you;re in for a nice talk. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Valrandir Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Nev Clavain Edited by: Nev Clavain on 30/01/2007 16:28:29 Originally by: Valrandir Shooting wrecks create an aggro because the flawed game mechanics make it so. Fixed. Use of flawed game mechanics to achieve an end, not intended to occur as a result of that action, is exploiting. Its the same as changing people's roles to stop them leaving corp while imposing maximum corp tax on them. Yes its part of the game. No its not meant to be like that. Yes its an exploit. The aggro timer is there to discourage logging off in combat situations, not to give cheap kills to people who dont have the balls to face their opponent while he is actually online and can shoot back, or don't have the brains to catch him and cause an aggro timer while he is actually playing the game. Again, two options A- Be a victim, ignore current game mechanics (whether it is as intended or not does not matter), die, petition and whine, repeat B- Learn current game mechanics, take them into account and use them to your advantage. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
Vasiliyan PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Beef Hardslab Simple fix tbfh - don't hide the damn aggro timer in 0.0. Yeah, if it can get you killed it should be displayed. At the moment we have the situation where some people are ctrl-qing in fights and living and some people are logging off legitimately and getting killed. It would be amusing to use this as a baiting tactic: get someone to log out in a cheap passive tanked BS and then have a friendly covops probe him down. Enemies warp in, start shooting, then find themselves in a dictor bubble being shot at. The bait pilot should be able to save his pod if he logs in after it's warped out of the bubble.
The Slayer Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:38:00 - [38] Originally by: Valrandir Again, two options A- Be a victim, ignore current game mechanics (whether it is as intended or not does not matter), die, petition and whine, repeat B- Learn current game mechanics, take them into account and use them to your advantage. And what PRECISELY would you suggest the pilot in this case do in future? How exactly can this exploit be countered? "Use them to your advantage"... are you suggesting we ALL start using exploits, just because some people stoop that low?
Valrandir Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:43:00 - [39] Originally by: The Slayer Originally by: Valrandir Again, two options A- Be a victim, ignore current game mechanics (whether it is as intended or not does not matter), die, petition and whine, repeat B- Learn current game mechanics, take them into account and use them to your advantage. And what PRECISELY would you suggest the pilot in this case do in future? How exactly can this exploit be countered? "Use them to your advantage"... are you suggesting we ALL start using exploits, just because some people stoop that low? As other already suggested, in the future the pilot could warp to a deep savespot before logging out, instead of staying at the POS. By the time that his ship goes out of the long warp the logout timer should be finished. Also he should not leave wrecks available for others to get accro on him. Simply salvage them your wreck, or shoot them to explosion. Don't leave them behind. How about you? Are you suggesting that he should keep on doing the same thing? Keep on creating more petitions? Or should he instead learn and adapt? The petition system should not be a fix for ignorance/stupidity/carelessness -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware
Gaius Flaminius	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Valrandir Originally by: The Slayer Originally by: Valrandir Again, two options A- Be a victim, ignore current game mechanics (whether it is as intended or not does not matter), die, petition and whine, repeat B- Learn current game mechanics, take them into account and use them to your advantage. And what PRECISELY would you suggest the pilot in this case do in future? How exactly can this exploit be countered? "Use them to your advantage"... are you suggesting we ALL start using exploits, just because some people stoop that low? As other already suggested, in the future the pilot could warp to a deep savespot before logging out, instead of staying at the POS. By the time that his ship goes out of the long warp the logout timer should be finished. Also he should not leave wrecks available for others to get accro on him. Simply salvage them your wreck, or shoot them to explosion. Don't leave them behind. How about you? Are you suggesting that he should keep on doing the same thing? Keep on creating more petitions? Or should he instead learn and adapt? The petition system should not be a fix for ignorance/stupidity/carelessness I agree that he could have been more careful, but that's not really the point here. As far as I know the devs have said this is a bug and that exploiting it is an offense (don't know the penalty). Someone could probably even provide a link, but I cba to find it for you. /Gaius Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.01.30 16:48:00 - [41] Originally by: The Slayer Originally by: Valrandir Again, two options A- Be a victim, ignore current game mechanics (whether it is as intended or not does not matter), die, petition and whine, repeat B- Learn current game mechanics, take them into account and use them to your advantage. And what PRECISELY would you suggest the pilot in this case do in future? How exactly can this exploit be countered? "Use them to your advantage"... are you suggesting we ALL start using exploits, just because some people stoop that low? You can eject from the ship first, then log right? I thought I read somewhere that it helped. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:06:00 - [42] There needs to be an indicator when its safe to log legit anyway. And shooting someones wrecks/cans just to aggro them without them knowing is silly. When the indicator is green, you can logoff safely. You press control-Q, and your ship sits for 1 minute immobile before you ACTUALLY logoff. If you are aggressed, logoff is canceled. If not, your ship warps off and disappears immediately. All problems are solved. Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:11:00 - [43] Originally by: Valrandir As other already suggested, in the future the pilot could warp to a deep savespot before logging out, instead of staying at the POS. By the time that his ship goes out of the long warp the logout timer should be finished. Also he should not leave wrecks available for others to get accro on him. Simply salvage them your wreck, or shoot them to explosion. Don't leave them behind. How about you? Are you suggesting that he should keep on doing the same thing? Keep on creating more petitions? Or should he instead learn and adapt? The petition system should not be a fix for ignorance/stupidity/carelessness No one is suggesting he keep doing the same thing, and I doubt very much he will. However its only you suggesting his petition is stupid in this case. Its not stupid, I would bet he is going to get his ship back, and he's learned his lesson. The petition isnt a fix for stupidity, however it is often a fix for broken game mechanics being exploited, which is exactly what is happening here. Maybe you should adapt to that. If you think that the current shooting wrecks aggro bug system is really how this game should work, well then you have a warped idea of what a fun game is for most people. A fun game for most people isn't about being really anally retentive and finding every little known bug and exploit and using it on unsuspecting people who just want to play the game within the rules and framework described to them. The fact that his ship was killed 9 minutes after he logged off, without him having any combat interaction with another player, suggests something is borked here, and he deserves reimbursement. What you are being so bitter and demeaning about it is hard to tell.
III LightBringer Death by Drones	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:18:00 - [44] Edited by: III LightBringer on 30/01/2007 17:15:29 Doubt this is an exploit as the thread is not yett locked. Still, it smells like an exploit to me... edited : Lets make that, the smell of an undescribed feature.

Cyrano Syme Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.30 17:54:00 - [45] Please remember that GM conversations are to be kept confidential. They are not allowed to be posted on the EVE Online forums. \| forum rules \| crc website \| forum faq \| [email protected] \|

Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.30 18:06:00 - [46] In all seriousness, flame-mode turned off, you are an unfortunate casualty of a much needed game mechanic. The 15 minute thing is there to stop people logging off in the heat of combat to save their ship. As we all know, logging off is still far too easy, so every little measure to stop it is extremely welcome. Unfortunately for you, you got popped due to the side effect of this game mechanic. Is it fair? Not especially. But would we change the mechanic? Dear lord no. Its something that has to be in game, and you've just been unlucky with it. Accept it, learn from it, maybe make use of it yourself in the future, and get on with the game. -----------------------------------------------
Svett Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.30 18:11:00 - [47] Edited by: Svett on 30/01/2007 18:08:28 Originally by: Jon Hawkes Edited by: Jon Hawkes on 30/01/2007 15:14:19 With the new probing system it is possible to probe out a ship in under 40 seconds for a well-skilled Cov Ops pilot. By the sounds of it, you were probed, then aggressed (15 minute aggro timer restarts at this point, even though you are offline), then lost your ship 7 minutes later. At this point, the 15 minute timer starts on your pod, allowing it to be probed easily. Petition it under "reimbursement", being sure to mention that there was no aggro timer involved (the GMs can verify if this is the case or not), as it is not classed as an exploit. I lost a fitted BS this way some time ago, and it took a month or so to get it returned. Also, do not log off at a POS in future. Use a safespot at least 2 AU from a warpable object. You can probe someone in 24 seconds with the right skills & rigs. However as my understanding of the agg timer goes, if you are offline with no agg (no 15 min timer) and your ship is shot in the 1 minute it is in space.. you still do not 'gain' an aggression timer and will disappear. I could be wrong however, but this is how it has worked for me in practice (having ppl disapear). Edit : read about the wrecks he left in space, ok now I see how it happened. Now that is a bug imo.
Tsueng	Posted - 2007.01.30 18:15:00 - [48] Again, two options A- Be a victim, accept current game bugs, don't petition, and flame others for noticing it. B- Realize it is a bug, file a petition, have it fixed, and learn to use /real/ strategies for kills.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.30 18:51:00 - [49] Originally by: Valrandir Originally by: canadus hmm i killed about 3 rats in system prior to warping to pos and chatting yes.. There you go This loss is within game mechanics and should not be reimbursed. Wrong firing on wrecks is an exploit (90% sure to have seen a ruling in forum) or should be.
Princess Jodi	Posted - 2007.02.02 17:08:00 - [50] I'm not gonna comment on the mechanics or exploits that may have occurred in your instance, but I'd like to point out a Good Practices lesson: Never log out at a POS. The reason for this, besides the possible exploit/tactic you mentioned, is that the POS just might get destroyed before you return to the game. Then an enemy POS could be put up in its place. I've done that before myself - catching many offline hostiles who long on only to find themselves warping to a now-hostile Battlestar. Its a common tactic during POS-wars. And for Christ's Sake don't eject from your ship and then log. You ship then becomes a tasty morsel that might invite an attack on the POS, be stolen or stripped by a corp member/spy, or just bumped out of the shields. I believe that the first Dreadnought ever lost was one that got bumped out of the shields and stolen by the enemy. The best solution seems to have a variety of deep safe spots, and to log off at them or in warp to them.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.02 18:33:00 - [51] And let us not forget, until the "bug" is fixed and even after, don't leave your "junk" floating in space. Clean up after yourself. There are apparently harsh penalties for littering in EVE.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:25:00 - [52] Originally by: Sorja If what you describe is indeed what happened, it sounds like a bug to me. One should be able to safely log off when not under agression timer. Whoever used that 'tactics' against you is at best a lamer, at worst an exploiter. If he ratted in the hour before the hour he sat at the pos, he might have left a wreck behind somewhere. They shoot the wrecks, and there's you aggro flag. It's lame. It certainly should be consider exploiting. As far as I know no official word has been spoken about it. To the OP: That is sucktastic. I hope you didn't lose too much. Logging at POS should be fixed one of these days..... --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:25:00 - [53] Originally by: Sorja If what you describe is indeed what happened, it sounds like a bug to me. One should be able to safely log off when not under agression timer. Whoever used that 'tactics' against you is at best a lamer, at worst an exploiter. If he ratted in the hour before the hour he sat at the pos, he might have left a wreck behind somewhere. They shoot the wrecks, and there's you aggro flag. It's lame. It certainly should be consider exploiting. As far as I know no official word has been spoken about it. To the OP: That is sucktastic. I hope you didn't lose too much. Logging at POS should be fixed one of these days..... --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Assur Minmatar Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:30:00 - [54] Maybe talking to your corpmate only seemed like an hour... Some people really are that booring.
Assur Minmatar Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:30:00 - [55] Maybe talking to your corpmate only seemed like an hour... Some people really are that booring.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:33:00 - [56] Warping from your own POS when you logout shouldn't happen. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:33:00 - [57] Warping from your own POS when you logout shouldn't happen. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:50:00 - [58] I see the three things OP did wrong. 1. Did'nt pay attention to local...Unknown in system. 2. Loged from the POS. Should have a SS. POS may be under attack when you log back in. 3. Came here to post about it...should of requested Senior GM assistance. Or contacted one of the community rep Devs. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:40:00 - [59] Edited by: Sebastien LeReparteur on 02/02/2007 20:38:27 I am sorry but (taking in account that there was no POS war or anything) what would it have changed if he logged form a SS? Whit the People & Places I can know exactly when you log out. So when he aligns for SS he waits for a little while then starts probing sees guy going off line, probes hit ship anyways, voila guy still flagged from a wreck shot. The only thing he could have done would be to eject then pray no Mothership scooped is ship then log off in POD. He would have only lost a POD. But then again it is an exploit or not? No official answer here else then moderation.
Krashtest Exploratory Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.02 21:25:00 - [60] Originally by: canadus just checked my logs i logged off at 20:49 at 21:01 the ship was killed i am sure i was behind the pos shields (was right next to the tower) and didnt make any achion (other then chatting) that could give me any kind of timer.. canadus According to your logs , you died within the 2 minute ship disappearance, so there was a covert ops sitting near your pos waiting and scanned you down right after you warped away. While this is unfortunate, it is neither an exploit nor a bug, just a very good prober.

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