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Lakota Ellecon Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords 27	Posted - 2016.02.08 07:49:43 - [1] - Quote Hello Capsuleers of New Eden, I'm writing because I'm more & more interested in Market & Trading recently, and start some kind of station trading. ( Still not good at that but... nevermind ! ) i'm asking you if someone can explain me exactly what is a 3rd party in a loan/Bond deal. I saw some of you are even famous, like Angelica Everstar, Chribba, etc. What ISK (or %) the 3rd party take on the deal as well ?? Thanks in advance for your explanations. Fly safe, Lakota Ellecon, CEO/RGI

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 15184	Posted - 2016.02.08 08:42:34 - [2] - Quote Can only speak for myself. My role in a bond is to hold collateral for the bond to make sure that the person running the bond doesn't run away with the ISK, or in the case they do so make sure the investors get back their original investments. Can also apply if the pilot running the bond stop paying interest or in other ways show that he/she is not intending to do the bond as outlined. I usually require the bonds I assisst in to be over-collaterized. So if you're asking for a 10b bond I may require you to give me 12b collateral both to protect the investors as well as market changes depending on how and what the bond aims to do. My fee is usually a static one of a few hundred million ISK, depending on type of bond, collateral and amount of time it runs. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Lakota Ellecon Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords 27	Posted - 2016.02.08 09:15:30 - [3] - Quote Thanks for you answer Chribba. So if for example, I want to propose a loan/bond of 10bn to a customer, I need to give you 12b for the "insurance" right ? or is the customer who will give you the 12b ? I'm quite new, so it's something not clear for me, sorry :( Thanks, Lakota

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 15184	Posted - 2016.02.08 11:19:47 - [4] - Quote Usually it would be you that give me the 12b in order to get the 10b from the investors. Depends on the type of bond and plans. There could be situations where the investors money go to me to buy for example blueprints which I then buy and make copies of to you to sell and give out dividends from. But most of the times yeah I hold collateral you give me, then you get ISK from investors. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Lakota Ellecon Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords 27	Posted - 2016.02.08 11:24:11 - [5] - Quote Thanks for helping me figuring out this... But what is the interest for me send you 12b collateral if I only get back 10b from the investor person + some interests which will be probably less than 2b ? I don't see the profit here ...
flakeys Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 3245	Posted - 2016.02.08 11:37:14 - [6] - Quote Lakota Ellecon wrote: Thanks for helping me figuring out this... But what is the interest for me send you 12b collateral if I only get back 10b from the investor person + some interests which will be probably less than 2b ? I don't see the profit here ... ////// Sorry was thinking as an investor, not a loaner.. :) It's quite simple.You give the 3rd party 12 B worth of stuff , then the investors either give you direclty 10 B or it goes through the 3rd party middleman to you.Each month you pay the interest to the customers directly who then vouch they have gotten it.If all goes well at the end of the bond you get your collateral back and investors get their initial amount back.If **** hits the fan and you don't pay interest or ''get hit by a bus'' the 3rd party sells all the colleteral and provides the investors their initial investment back. In some cases , you can directly trade the collateral to the investor but that has to mean that you know that person is trustworthy enough to not just walk away with the overcollateral you gave him.And knowing someone is trustworthy enough is kinda hard in eve hence we have the 3rd parties. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Sabriz Adoudel Move along there is nothing here 5674	Posted - 2016.02.09 10:58:23 - [7] - Quote Here's how it works. You own 100 Oneiros hulls, which (for argument's sake) have a 150m ISK price on buy orders. You need hard currency to invest in something, but don't want to firesell your Oneiroses. You are confident you can actually get 160m for each of them, given time, but you need 12.5b ISK right now. You find a lender that has 12.5b they are willing to loan if they can get security, but you don't trust the lender (they might run off with your Oneiroses). But both parties trust Chribba. So, you approach Chribba, and he holds the Oneiroses as 12.5b security. If you default on your loan, Chribba refunds the lender their 12.5b, and keeps the Oneiroses. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Lakota Ellecon Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords 27	Posted - 2016.02.09 11:10:58 - [8] - Quote Thanks again Sabritz ! My question is, why a 20% collateral for the 3rd party ? (for ex. what is justifying 2b collateral on the 10b loan) ? the market is of course fluctuating, but I don't understand why 20% Thanks; Lakota Ellecon, CEO/RGI
Henry Noir Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.02.09 12:34:50 - [9] - Quote Noone uses 20% collateral, where did you got that number? They will use 120% value collateral. so additional 20% will cover price fluctuations and unpaid interest and collateral holding fees! I just made a loan deal with 110% collateral, read my conditions: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=468082
TheSmokingHertog Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium 370	Posted - 2016.02.09 12:38:43 - [10] - Quote Lakota Ellecon wrote: Thanks again Sabritz ! My question is, why a 20% collateral for the 3rd party ? (for ex. what is justifying 2b collateral on the 10b loan) ? the market is of course fluctuating, but I don't understand why 20% Thanks; Lakota Ellecon, CEO/RGI 20% is due to Pareto's principle... google it ;). "Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X "Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron -= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Lakota Ellecon Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords 27	Posted - 2016.02.09 13:15:05 - [11] - Quote This Pareto principle is very interesting... EvE Online is definitely a deep game & is touching much more then just economics & Astromomics knowledges. Thanks for your help everyone ! Lakota P.S: My last question will be: What minimum we need to "become" a lender in EvE & this Market Business ? I can lend 5b for a 1st try, but with discussions of course.
Cista2 Caldari Provisions Caldari State 203	Posted - 2016.02.09 14:18:54 - [12] - Quote You don't need to lend people a certain big amount. There are many offers, you can distribute your money. My channel: "Signatures" - Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
Doug Shahni New Quafe Zero Music Department 0	Posted - 2016.02.15 19:48:25 - [13] - Quote ok
Buzz Orti State War Academy Caldari State 118	Posted - 2016.02.15 19:51:24 - [14] - Quote Loan / Bond = in liquid ingame ISK Collateral in exchange for bond, to cover for contract default = collateral of items value, not liquid asset. Collateral requires to be liquidated to have any value, or to have an ISK value. It may or may not cost more than 2 b ISK to liquidate 12b worth of asset (relative worth that is). In fact, if you have 144b worth of assets and it costs 30b to liquidate, you make 14b on the total work, which make take a few months to do. For instance, if you have 12b worth of 1m each Serpentis 30 days skins, it may be a rip off. (They don't make that much volume yet)
Caleb Ayrania TarNec Invisible Exchequer 282	Posted - 2016.02.15 20:03:08 - [15] - Quote Beware that in MD some posts and posters should be taken less serious than others! If you do a bond, Jerry T offers may be ignored.
Buzz Orti State War Academy Caldari State 118	Posted - 2016.02.15 21:35:04 - [16] - Quote So, if you think your 12b collateral on day 1 is worth more on day 30 or 60, or on terms, you can offer the lender , bonding agent (party) to accept liquid ISK in exchange. Remember that ISK value is likely to depreciate with time, even though this may also not be true. So, if the other party wants the new deal, the third party could do it, if both party agrees. Of course, due to the original contract, the other party can keep the collateral, or your due payment, if you agreed to pay money back instead of collateral items. So 12b in 2 months is worth less or can be worth less than 10b today, although, 10b today may not be worth anything, and 12b in 2 months may save your life or alliance. He's buying your time, and you're selling him your time.
Dethmourne Silvermane Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore 105	Posted - 2016.02.16 20:54:10 - [17] - Quote I'm confused, are you investing money or borrowing money? Interested Party (TM)
Lakota Ellecon Gallente Rebels Inc. Villore Accords 29	Posted - 2016.02.16 21:06:32 - [18] - Quote I'm actually thinking to invest money for some trusted pilots.


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