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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.12.09 22:11:00 -
[1]
I think everyone is keen to see the results of real staged combat trials from the testing of the jump system on chaos, hence I'm starting this post to try and encourage it.
If you've tried a scenario on chaos, please write out what you tried, what you tried it with and against, what you think the outcome should have been and just as importantly, why. Please also pick a consecutive number, starting at #1 that people can use to quickly refer to which test people are talking about. This will give people a chance to discuss real results, then go away and check any ideas that people come up with in reply, and help to form a better conclusion about the workings of the new system.
Please, try to keep it to ideas about what people can try out, and real results of testing, rather than conjecture.
Redundancy |
Basilisk Bonita
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Posted - 2003.12.10 00:28:00 -
[2]
I managed to get through a blockade with a Rifter, which had 2xWMD equipped. The run was made with Autopilot to not loose any time with the UI, to jump manually.
After warping to the gate, i activated the 2 MWDs and managed to reach the gate with only one hit from a Cruise Missle. Top Speed at Gate was 10km/s. So i got through with 55% Armor.
For the Indy-Pilots (like myself) it¦s not worth to even think about flying to a blockaded gate. The Indus do not have enough power to fit in appropiate ABs or MWDs which will accelerate their mass. So prepare to fly with 120-200 m/s with an Indy in the future (if Indys do not get more power). 
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Gwildee
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Posted - 2003.12.10 01:54:00 -
[3]
6 other Chaos testers and myself did some gate camping and blockade running tests. We blocked the FD gate in the PF system. We discovered that a few ships could keep a BS from gating. Only a few ships set up with 2 MWD were able to pass the Blockade. The Jump point during this test only worked when a pilot was within 2.5km. 20km out and only 17.5 km of Turkey shoot ally.
Please keep to the topic at hand. I can appreciate frustration with the system, but this thread is not the place to bring up quitting because of it, just the results of testing. - Red
Eletta VII Moon 9 University Asst Store Manager.. Over 140 items on sale at greatly reduced prices
Minerals always needed |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.12.10 02:50:00 -
[4]
...
#1
Incursus vs. Bestower
Bestower tried to get from warp-in (20km) to jump range. No success, regardless of setup.
Incursus frequently had to run from the Serpentis Guards spawning at the gate. (!)
Considering how easy it is to chase a Incursus away from a gate, and with the changes to warp core stabilizers (which wasn't used), I see no problem with this. Especially not since the Incursus would be entierly limited to targetting Industrials (other frigates would be to fast to catch, cruisers would kill it in 2 shots, Bships would just fly by at 150 m/s and laugh).
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
what
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Posted - 2003.12.10 05:08:00 -
[5]
Could there be a JIP timer displayed as there is no other indicator that your ship is no longer invulnerable or have your ship partially cloaked when you have invulnerable?
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Shaqan
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Posted - 2003.12.10 10:48:00 -
[6]
Thorax vs. Apocalypse
ingredient's:
1 thorax with 2x10meganewton MDW's (no other speed boosting equipment)
1 Apocalypse battleship (pure combat setup, no webs)
Used autopilot. when i got out of warp i engaged the mwd's and he got one hit before i jumped. Because of the time it takes to target a ship after it has exited warp + targeting time, one should be able to get past blockades consisting of several BS's without much trouble. A web would do no difference. With one MWD it was pure luck i survived.
I havent tested jip yet.
As i see it that is "natural". no cruiser without MWD should be able to get past blockades consisting of BS's without altering the setup to that purpose.
Disclaimer: above text is written to express my thoughts about this subject, and are not an attack on anybody. Spelling errors may occur frequently, and will always do, please do not comment -i know. |
Golgrath
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Posted - 2003.12.10 11:27:00 -
[7]
Raven with one sensor booster camping the FD gate. Bestower with 4 local hull nanofibers and a 10 MN AB (need engineering 5 to fit the 10 MN MWD, only had lvl 4) trying to go for the gate. Bestower got to 10km of the gate before destroyed. Poor Beslower.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.10 11:45:00 -
[8]
Kestrel vs mixed force.
3 campers at the gate:
* Fitted with one MWD and 2 AFB's. Max. speed of the ship is about 1.2 k/sec. Got shot by cruise missiles from the camping frigate about half way to the gate.
* Fitted with 2 MWD. Max speed of 3 k/sec, enough capacitor for single burst. Got through.
4-5 campers
* Fitted again with 2 MWD. Stopped dead in track and shot ~100 m from the jump distance.
Incursus vs mixed force of campers.
3 campers.
* Fitted with 1 MWD, max. speed of ~1.9 k/sec. Got to the gate, right clicking on the gate didn't invoke the menu despite repeated attempts. Wasted few seconds unable to jump, got shot.
* Tried the same setup running again, got the menu to open, got through with shields down and some armor damage.
didn't try that one against the larger force, would most likely fail to get through, though.
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Serge
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Posted - 2003.12.10 12:31:00 -
[9]
4 campers vs 4 runners
campers consisted of 2 BS and 2 cruisers (BB and Thorax)
attackers: 3 BS (4th BS never showed up ... )
camped gate to PF from FD. Quickly able to get a target with BB ( sensor booster, webbifier, warpscrambler). BB was destroyed first ... Test ended with big battle ... all destroyed.
Need to setup better test!
***********************************************
... "we suddenly have a good 2 dozen Chicken Littles running about proclaiming tha |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.12.10 20:11:00 -
[10]
In reference to #1
Industrials can now use cruiser-sized turrets, which are actually quite effective against single frigates.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Basilisk Bonita
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Posted - 2003.12.10 21:15:00 -
[11]
uh, i will test this one out val. :)
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.12.11 13:08:00 -
[12]
For the record - when testing gate camping, please only do it with people who have agreed to help you test. This isnt a liscence to sit at any gate and kill everyone that comes though.
Redundancy |
Gan Ning
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Posted - 2003.12.11 15:56:00 -
[13]
I really dont like the changes. Basically if you get caught with 2 webifiers you are dead meat, no escape.
With frigates having lock times under 1 min, you really have no chance to run any blockade. I think the hanges are too much in favour for pirates.
That and the fact you can't warp if in 20km of a gate AND you can still be warp scrambled whilst aligning. Castor patch is a pirates dream I have to say. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.12.11 19:28:00 -
[14]
here's a test, can we run a test where the campers attempt to escape from the attackers? Like, as soon as they see the first ship from the mapdot arrive, they attempt to bugger off.
The campers victory is to escape, the attackers is to prevent them while suffering under 50% losses. In the event of a mix the "victorious" side will have a 3:1 kill ratio, 2:1 marginal, 1:1 is a failure.
I realize you need a lot of people to really get a good final score by that method :D
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.12.11 22:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 11/12/2003 22:18:16
Warp-jammers will be a pointless module for gate camping - double webify, hit with missiles, and bingo!
One dead ship.
With this patch, I'm so very glad I'm the hunter and not the hunted.
The situation I envisage is this:
Pirates camp outside the 20km no-warp zone and only kill what they can - solo-pilots.
A force setup to drive them away jumps in and the pirates warp away, leavin the blockade-busters wallowing around trying vainly to travel 3km so they can give chase.
A ****ty victory for the blockade-busters and, for all the changes, is EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT IS NOW.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.12.12 00:27:00 -
[16]
 Quote:
Warp-jammers will be a pointless module for gate camping - double webify, hit with missiles, and bingo!
One dead ship.
With this patch, I'm so very glad I'm the hunter and not the hunted.
The situation I envisage is this:
Pirates camp outside the 20km no-warp zone and only kill what they can - solo-pilots.
A force setup to drive them away jumps in and the pirates warp away, leavin the blockade-busters wallowing around trying vainly to travel 3km so they can give chase.
A ****ty victory for the blockade-busters and, for all the changes, is EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT IS NOW.
How do you webify players that just approuch the stargate and jump back?
They appear at 7-8 KM from the end of the warp dirubtion field so they only have to fly 2-3 KM to be safe from stasis web (10 km) if you are located at the exact location where they appear?
"Where is my hat?" |
Jael
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Posted - 2003.12.12 00:58:00 -
[17]
The jump range is quoted as being ~8km - this seems to be more like <2.5km for many Empire gates - can you confirm, please? |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.12.12 03:01:00 -
[18]
Quote:
The jump range is quoted as being ~8km - this seems to be more like <2.5km for many Empire gates - can you confirm, please?
Yes it was changed to 2,5 km
"Where is my hat?" |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.12.12 03:26:00 -
[19]
Edited by: ClawHammer III on 12/12/2003 03:34:41
I think itÆs a bit unfair that you jump into a warp scramble field. You have no way of knowing what's on the other side. If the enemy has some frigates or cruisers with stasis webs you are pretty much screwed no matter what. They don't even need warp scramblers cuz the gate does that for them automatically.
With 4 webs my top speed in a battleship was like .4 m/s with an AB running, which means there is no chance of escape.
Instead I propose that you jump in outside the warp scramble field or get rid of it all together. At least that way they need a warp scrambler to lock you down as well so you have a chance to escape.
If you guys are dead set on the warp scramble field around the gate at least make the warp scramble field emanate form a deployable instead of the gate. That way you could destroy the scrambler field in order to escape or at least give others a chance to escape.
The deployable scramble field should be very big so that it can only be carried in an industrial and they shouldnÆt be able to overlap. They should also be pretty expensive to make so people wont just litter them at every gate they find. They should also be prohibited in empire space. At least in the high security areas.
Another advantage to only having the field come from a deployable is that it wonÆt slow down travel time in 0.0 space unless there is a blockade underway.
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Jael
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Posted - 2003.12.12 04:20:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Jael on 12/12/2003 04:27:04
Quote:
Quote:
The jump range is quoted as being ~8km - this seems to be more like <2.5km for many Empire gates - can you confirm, please?
TomB:Yes it was changed to 2,5 km
Thanks. Is this a parameter that's under consideration for tweaking to keep travel time down?
EDIT: ... and to stop us bouncing off the gates all the time? [;)] |
ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2003.12.12 04:48:00 -
[21]
2-3 frigs at gate webbing ships with bships with tach's and 1400's sit 40km out. TomB, I like the idea, I really do, but it is not balanced. I wish I had a good answer to suggest. What is currently on chaos, is not an adequate solution. It is quite simply TOO easy to lockdown a ship. As opposed ofc to TQ being to hard to lock one down. There must be a middle ground here. Perhaps web's don't function the same in the warp stasis bubble around gates would be a direction to go. Not sure.
And, offtopic the 100mn mwd uses way to much cap for it's benefit.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2003.12.12 08:36:00 -
[22]
Experienced players is one thing, but new players will have an even harder time to deal with camping pirates and the likes. I fear this might be another Mara/Passari subscription cancellation nightmare.
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Artean
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Posted - 2003.12.12 09:19:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Artean on 12/12/2003 09:21:09
/agree
This solution got a somewhat over-ambitious feeling to it; a solution that affects more than just PvP. Ive seen some peeps suggesting modules to do the job instead, ie area effect warp-scramble modules. Or, perhaps, a module that activates the "built-in" warp-scrambler in the jump-gate (something for pirate agents to hnd out?). Then will at least only the gates that actually ARE camped be affected.
EDIT. sorry for beeing a tad of topic. |
Eduard
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Posted - 2003.12.12 11:44:00 -
[24]
Last changes simply make death trap to every traveler. It give no chance of escape for prays. Here are numbers why a bit about tactic.
1st JIP to system. Ship is siting duck in middle because your ship apear in 11km radius sphere. It's aproximately 9km to gate back and 9km to warp out sphere.
Average BS or Industrial will make 9km trip in 9 x 5s if I consider them flying 200m/s which is far above reality. In total anyone have 45seconds to kill ship.
2nd warp to gate ship will end around 17km from gate so ship need fly 15km to gate or 3km to free zone. In case when ship try to flee it need turn 180 degree and then fly over 3km + allign ship + warp out. In total more than 20 seconds again. If ship will try fly to gate it will be 17 * 5s = 85 seconds.
As you can see both cases are death trap and these numbers bring up another issue. Travel time! Actually travel time are 5 or 7 times longer than with old system.
You devs goes so far in game changes. PvP can't be forced to people. For industrial pilots is slap to face because no one can expect PvP Industrial vs everything. Even NPC pirates are thread for industrial pilots now.
What I see if this change will hit TQ server CCP can expect revolution, exodus and rise of PKers.
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Triniton
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Posted - 2003.12.12 13:24:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Triniton on 13/12/2003 07:25:52
:]
ZOMBIE PRUNES! |
Zarthan
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Posted - 2003.12.12 14:22:00 -
[26]
Trin beat me to the punch, everyone is complaining when now only lawless space will be lawless. This patch effectively 100% ends any pirate activies in any empire space nearly.
BTW i didn't hear nearly as many people cry when PVP got nerf'd big time last patch. People are saying the changes are unbalanced in pvp's favor. Lets look at the last two major patch's i think you'll find it's very balanced.
Senty Guns- Are now in every empire space solar system. Ok now the gate campers are gone from .4-.1 . The Bookmark nerf was promised then to balance this change but did not happen.
MWD- Mucho uber with 2 of these on you can run any and all gates. Controling space is impossible with MWD's. I tested this traveling into FA space NVA space etc etc. nobody ever was able to stop me. With the nerf now an mwd does not put you in GOD mode which it shouldn't so it's a good nerf.
The no warp zone deal- This i'm guessing is partially done to prevent the bookmark jumping. Also based on the changes in empire space you don't have to go far to avoid being shot at by somone trying to camp way out of range in order to avoid the sentry guns. Also sentry guns are suppose to get upgraded to unjamable so you wont see people in empire space.
OK back to be 100% on topic, with 2 mwd unless they use a frigate with some well placed missels they have no chance of stopping you from jumping. I tested this and a battleship flat out cant target anything smaller then another battleship in time to kill it really.
Also the no warp zone will prevent the camping frigate or cruiser from jumping as well. If they camp outside the no warp zone they will only propel your ship to the gate faster. So now to effectively camp a gate the camper has to be willing to hae no ability to warp out, sounds fair to me.
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
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Eduard
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Posted - 2003.12.12 14:45:00 -
[27]
Quote:
U guy¦s are forgetting one thing, no more JIP camping and u spawn at the gate and the gate has sentry¦s so u can only camp 0.0 space now unless u tank the sentry¦s. Empire space in now 100% save and u still complainin JEEZ!
JEEZ! you are so stupid! Sentry guns have range only 60km. Every PKer noob or carebear can sit 90km from you and blow you to hell. It could be easy made and he doesn't need to go close to you just because he have unlimited warp scramble range. Your ship at JIP sit in warp disruption field.
All what he need is have sitting hauler close to gate who will get ship remains and body.
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Falhofnir
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Posted - 2003.12.12 15:08:00 -
[28]
zarth/trin, you should think twice before posting such idiocies.
The changes as they are at the moment improve rewards for pirates (=blockaders that kill every weaker ships that comes by) by a HUGE extent, while it doesn't change much to the risks they take.
I see people already saying 'but true pirates who catch their preys and ask for ransom will be ****** !'; well, do you really think any sane pirate would do it from inside the warpscrambling bubble ?
Anyway, im willing to bet 5 isks that's what we're gonna get on tq on monday, and that'll be changed after X days of constant yelling (along with flaming 'ONO YOU CAREBEAR YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW HARD IT IS FOR US TO PIRATE NOW !!') on the boards, and yeah, people are gonna lose ships on TQ to actually balance that improperly balanced change.
i'm kinda pessimistic about all that, but we'll see what comes out of castor on monday, hopefully i'm wrong.
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Merdekka Radaen
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Posted - 2003.12.12 15:25:00 -
[29]
No patch has removed pirates - it has only ever moved them. This one is just the same. They can't camp gates, sentries were put in. Now they can't camp jips because such a thing doesn't exist. What now? Easy - They'll go outside sentry range with long range weapon setups for taking out indies before they can jump. There's already pirates doing it now, maybe because they dislike the risks associated with getting jumped at a spawn. You can easily setup an apoc to take out an indy from 70+ km away in one volley of heavy laser carnage.
Anybody who thinks this patch makes empire 100% safe is just deluding themselves.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.12.12 16:58:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 12/12/2003 16:59:45
I couldn't care less what/when/how pirates behave - I just know that this patch does nothing to make it easier to catch someone.
Chasing someone is going to be pointless, only idiots will jump into an unscouted system, and the no-warp zone does nothing to encourage people to fight.
It achieves exactly the opposite - it makes people think "How/where should I run" rather than "How/where should I fight". It makes battle even MORE gate/station centric without introducing anything truly helpful.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.12 17:28:00 -
[31]
Edited by: j0sephine on 12/12/2003 17:32:15
"How do you webify players that just approuch the stargate and jump back?
They appear at 7-8 KM from the end of the warp dirubtion field so they only have to fly 2-3 KM to be safe from stasis web (10 km) if you are located at the exact location where they appear?"
... a Vigil with MWD and webifier will be on top of you (or at least within webifier range) and locked in 3-5 seconds, TomB. It can also run the warp scrambler in its 3rd slot to prevent you from warping away.
Been there, done that.
(i dunno why you presume the pirate will be sitting still, tbh...)
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Gafton
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Posted - 2003.12.12 17:52:00 -
[32]
A possible solution would be to have the gate scramble strength set to 1. That way people would have the chance to at least warp out. The warp stab wouldnt be able to run in warp so players wouldnt be able to use bms jumping in, but would be able to jumping out. This would also require the pirates to carry a scrambler to try and keep the ship in system.
Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. |
Triniton
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Posted - 2003.12.12 18:23:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Triniton on 13/12/2003 07:26:05
:]
ZOMBIE PRUNES! |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.12 19:13:00 -
[34]
did you guys ever think that this is counter productive to move ppl out of empire space? as dev's have wanted to?
now all pirates will be attacking alliances or any good areas that are in zero sec? that means that pretty much out there pirates get 100% kills and can camp...
do you think ppl really wish to go out there, now with the travel times being so bad and CCP didnt do JACK to boost the NPC drops or the rewards, and hardly said anything about the roids being fixed...
if some ppl said travel time is now 5-7x then do you think CCP can fix the ores to counter that?
so what are you saying that now i need to go and get a cruiser to go mine, and then need a **** load of BS's just to guard me so i can mine from those BS NPC's oh ya that really sounds like a good plan to get ppl to go out into zero sec...
please this patch might be the one were ppl just hit the cancel button, and me just waiting here doesnÆt mean that i wouldnÆt have my finger on it 
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
SUNscatcher
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Posted - 2003.12.12 19:58:00 -
[35]
Edited by: SUNscatcher on 12/12/2003 20:25:30
sorry this doesn't belong here.
If you can catch me you can have me. |
Gwildee
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Posted - 2003.12.12 20:10:00 -
[36]
Quote:
TomB Posted - 02/12/2003 21:00:00
Currently when you jump via stargate on Chaos you now arrive at the end of the stargate that leads back to the system you came from.
Incoming player appears cloaked until he makes an action, tries to warp, activates module, logs out - the maximum cloaking period is currently set to 1 minute timer.
Related to this:
* Players warping to stargate arrive ~20km from stargate
* Players jumping via stargate arrive ~15-20km from stargate
* Jump range is now set at ~8km from stargate
This needs well tested, please post about any bugs and comment on how this affects camping and blockades.
Please keep flames and bad language out of this thread.
End TomBà
Chandra Posted - 02/12/2003 21:42:00
To clarify:
When you warp towards a gate you now come up at about 20 km from the gate
When you enter the solarsystem from a stargate you will end up on a random position in the range 15-20 km from the gate
If you want to jump through the gate you must be around 8 km from it.
Now, for those coming in the system, they will end up cloaked for a minute (except if they move). This allows them to look at their surroundings, but nothing else. If they want to jump right back, they have to sail (and thus vulnerable) to 8 km from the gate. If they want to warp, they will still have to align themselves to warp destination, which might take some time (especially for heavier ships).
All of this should make it possible to have a fighting chance against campers, as well as forcing blockades.
LeKjart
LeadDesigner
End Chandra post..
After reading through several posts on this topic and picking out the two quotes above I think I understand the (WHY) the Jumping at gates is being changed. To stop Jipping in Empire space and to:
(All of this should make it possible to have a fighting chance against campers, as well as forcing blockades.)
There is another way to give people a way to secure a section of space without hampering free gate travel. Instead of sentry guns..
Create a Module that a Corp or freelancer can use to secure a 200km diameter area of space. Not a Dyson Sphere (StarTrek NG) but a Dyson Deflector..
Only those people authorized can enter that area of Space. It can give some protection while mining which Pkers could sit outside and wait. Soon a indy would have to try to leave that Deflector or reenter it. It would become a waiting game then.. At least not a turkey shoot.
As to the Players who like to hunt other players then let them Hunt them. DonÆt set up a turkey shoot for them.
When you limit free travel then commerce will suffer, as you limit the market system. Does anyone Recall the Soviet travel system.. ôPapers Pleaseö ?..
Free Enterprise needs to have Quick and clear routes of travel. If a Corp wants to Claim a Belt, the Dyson Deflector (tm Gwildee) can provide them a safe haven in space. Please DonÆt Give a few the ability to Forcing a Blockade of a system that could be the only route to an entire Region of space.
Please.. Please. Pleaseà
Give me instant Gating.. Or Give me Death.
From the hall of Montazuma to the Shores of Tripoli.. I seem to recall a battle at Tripoli (sp) to keep free trade lanes open.
Maybe it is a stupid idea.. at least itÆs an suggestion.
Gwildee.. a Freelancer that wants Eve to Prosper.
Eletta VII Moon 9 University Asst Store Manager.. Over 140 items on sale at greatly reduced prices
Minerals always needed |
Falhofnir
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Posted - 2003.12.12 23:19:00 -
[37]
Quote:
@Falhofnir: improve rewards for pirate¦s my ass. They are remove-ing JIP camping(witch is good) and they are decreasing drone LAG i think(witch is good) but they are makeing 0.1 - 0.4 to hard to pirate in and that¦s a fact :]
you fail to see the point, and you go 'ono pirating is sooo hard'. no use arguing that over with you, and give you ideas as to how you should do your homework.
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Triniton
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Posted - 2003.12.12 23:47:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Triniton on 13/12/2003 07:26:24
:]
ZOMBIE PRUNES! |
ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2003.12.12 23:59:00 -
[39]
I would much rather pirates had a chance to pirate in empire space, then have 100% chance of locking down ANY ship in 0.0.
I guess this is all a moot point, as I imagine the code is froze and we will be stuck with this for a while.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Falhofnir
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Posted - 2003.12.13 01:07:00 -
[40]
Quote:
I never said "ono pirateing is soooo hard"
I was just pointing out that this patch will kill all pirateing in empire space. Did u comment on that nooo... u had to go with all the other pirate hater¦s and that is pointing out how pirate¦s whine all the time.
Gimmie one good reason why we should take it up the ass every damn patch and not say a word, if u do ill stop talking.
And dont say camp 0.0 cos u know there is litle as no traffic there + all the alliance¦s.
pirating in empire space won't die with this patch.
now did you get that line ?
gimme one good reason ccp should serve you guys ways to kill other people and affect their gaming experience without risking much on a silver platter.
and no, you're definately aren't taking it up the back way with this patch, and this is what you fail to see.
kthxbye.
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Triniton
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Posted - 2003.12.13 02:06:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Triniton on 13/12/2003 07:26:56
:]
ZOMBIE PRUNES! |
Falhofnir
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Posted - 2003.12.13 02:35:00 -
[42]
you're too narrow-minded. sorry. and you could have come up with fresher arguments than those overused ones.
i'll let other people have fun debating with you.
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Triniton
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Posted - 2003.12.13 06:51:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Triniton on 13/12/2003 07:51:56
STOP QUOTE-ING ME. U are ruining my edit¦s. :]
No point in this arguement. U got your point i got mine, imo PVP in this game is crap. I went on chaos to test this patch, see how the gate to gate jump¦s are and stuff and it was FULL of ppl pvp¦ing, 1on1 4on4, ppl dont do that on TQ and that imo suck¦s, ppl "testing" setup¦s! :/
Never been on chaos before and seeing this sucked, no risk no thrill no fun. Now i get it when ppl tell me "ill PWN your ass on chaos" off topic, sry.
ZOMBIE PRUNES! |
Loraine Riesel
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Posted - 2003.12.13 08:52:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Loraine Riesel on 13/12/2003 08:56:04
Just one line:
CCP can prepare for a huge drop in players (ie: loose much income in $$ ÇÇ), when implementing the non-empire-BS-mining, JIP feature, change in mwd's and afterburners with the implementation of the patch this Monday! |
Khrom Hazen
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Posted - 2003.12.13 15:17:00 -
[45]
Quote:
For the record - when testing gate camping, please only do it with people who have agreed to help you test. This isnt a liscence to sit at any gate and kill everyone that comes though.
No but a sure hell of a way to invite it with open arms.... With all the thrill seekers you really think that some will ask? Dear god lady, what kind of world do you live in ?
Khrom Hazen
XO Kusari Systems
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.12.13 15:18:00 -
[46]
Did any1 test gate camping with a common cenario, like 3 or 4 camping BS, 2 somewhat fitted for EW and 2 for dmg, and tried to run that blockade in a BS ?
I would like to hear about their findings. Unfortunately, I can't test it right now... But my idea is quite simple:
EW ships (scorpion prolly) fitted to web and scramble, and fast locking speed (2 webbers and 2 scramblers and at least 1 alumel sensor booster). 2 megathrons fitted with at least 4 425mm rails with pluto or am, an optical tracking CPU and 1 or 2 vortexes.
The incoming BS is free to change his setup (I would suggest some common setups like 1 MWD, 1 MWD and 2 ABs, etc.).
I would be really glad yo hear the outcome.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.13 15:46:00 -
[47]
"No but a sure hell of a way to invite it with open arms.... With all the thrill seekers you really think that some will ask? Dear god lady, what kind of world do you live in ?"
... The 'thrill seekers' are dealt with on Chaos in number of simple ways (ban being one of them -- your subscription entitles you to access to the TQ servers, Chaos is a bonus rather than part of the service package)
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Lallante
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Posted - 2003.12.13 21:05:00 -
[48]
"you're too narrow-minded. sorry!"
This is insane hypocracy but never mind.
NOTE TO ALL: This patch does indeed make Piracy easier. NOW piracy is almost a possible career (as opposed to a hobby). The risks however have MASSIVELY gone up. A proper blockade cannot work with the pirates outside of the warpscramble sphere: why not? The pirates need a quick lock to stop people. Therefore they need frigates and cruisers with them. Frigates and Cruisers need missles to kill stuff properly. If the pirates are outside the area, misses will propel the targets TOWARDS the gate, lowering the number that will hit.
It is true now that an indy cant get past a blockade. um? Isnt that how it should be?
notice: If the blockading fleet is attacked, it cannot escape: it cant jump due to hostilities, it cant warp due to the field. There are no MWDs that put BSs at 5km/s anymore. So If a decent anti pirate force can surprise the pirates you get a total kill scenario. After a while, pirates will stop risking solo camping and so less gates will be camped, the ones that are camped should be obvious from a glance in local.
I love these changes, im not a pirate, but ive always thought that Piracy deserves to be a possible choice of career. And before this patch its not even close. Money spent on missles exceeded loot collected.
Just because you cant carry on doing what you did before doesnt mean the changes are bad. Try playing differently.
Personally I think there should be a new shipclass now: SuperIndustrials: 5-8x the cargo space, illegal in Empire space (too much pollution/congestion?), even slower.
A note on Travel times: They are a little excessive. How about having the no warpsphere neededing activation by the camping force, perhaps using an existing module: Energy transfer to the gate for example.
Then empty systems can be passed quickly.
There should be more regional fluctuations in PC prices in eve. Longer travel times will help that a lot.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Dirus
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Posted - 2003.12.14 01:38:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Dirus on 14/12/2003 02:12:03
More testing done...
Ok, have some results from a 2 person blockade.
2 camping ships, both scorpions.
Scorpion 1
two Stasis Webifiers, two Warp Disruptors, 100 Meganewton MWD, two Sensor Boosters.
Runs up to target as fast as possible to lock them down (can also use a Blackbird)
Scorpion 2
-20 ECM power.
Makes sure target doesn't shoot back.
Results
Can stop from entering gate:
Haulers have no hope.
Single MWD cruisers/battleships have hope.
(depending where they arrive)
Dual MWD ships are insta-jumps...
Can stop from warping away from gate:
Haulers have no hope.
Single MWD cruisers/battleships have hope.
(depending where they spawn)
Dual MWD battleships can sometimes be caught, depending on where they spawn, and where they are trying to warp.
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
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Stepping Razor
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Posted - 2003.12.14 02:42:00 -
[50]
Quote:
A note on Travel times: They are a little excessive. How about having the no warpsphere neededing activation by the camping force, perhaps using an existing module: Energy transfer to the gate for example.
Then empty systems can be passed quickly.
This can't be said too often. The PvP aspects we're all prepared to play with. The long distance travel implications though, what's the point in them aside from discouraging travel?
Razor
Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon
CCP is the best at at least three things:
1. Really, really fun gameplay
2. Good forum presence
3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly |
Stepping Razor
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Posted - 2003.12.14 02:45:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 12/12/2003 16:59:45
Chasing someone is going to be pointless, only idiots will jump into an unscouted system, and the no-warp zone does nothing to encourage people to fight.
Aye. You'd almost think they though it up to sell 2nd "scout" accounts to every player.
Of course 1254 still CTDs running 2 account on the same comp, to the point that I'll have to cancel 1 or 2 accounts if they don't fix it.
*sigh* Okay, I don't get it either...
Razor
Originally by: Bonaventure Phaidon
CCP is the best at at least three things:
1. Really, really fun gameplay
2. Good forum presence
3. Inventing new and exciting ways to bring about in-game catacly |
Falhofnir
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Posted - 2003.12.14 02:49:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Falhofnir on 14/12/2003 11:06:17
I didn't get the hypocrisy part, but never mind.
I maintain blockading (the profitable kind, ganking industrials full of goods, maybe even ransoming battleships) can work with pirates sitting out of warpdisruptionfield in battleships (or as dirus shown, can work with risking only ONE battleship inside of the bubble).
Of course, if what you call proper blockading is intercepting 99-100% of the ships that pass by, we might see frigs/cruisers operating inside of the wdf.
But pirates play to win (and as everyone else who's a bit clever, don't particularly like getting ganked and usually don't get into situations where they're weak), so i *really* doubt we'll see many of them doing that. They'll use the rational approach, which is to lower the risks as much as possible.
Anyway, you can create an alt that can do the close-range webbing in a frigate in about a day.
So my guess is 0% of the 95% of pirates that'll stay in their battleships post-patch will stick inside of the WDF.
The only change that'll make the pirates more vulnerable is the ability to lock em and break their warp as they're aligning.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.12.14 04:40:00 -
[53]
For the ones that think that attackers (blockaders) can't escape, think twice. If you properly fit your ship, and properly position it, you can.
This is no secret: If I was a pirate, I would warp from every single direction to the gate I want to camp, and bookmark the warp in spawn. Then, I would draw a radius around the warp in spawns, and stay the required distance from it (remember: ships drop from warp 17 Km from the gate, so it's quite possible for an EW ship to be positioned in range of scramblers and near the disruption border radius, so it can do a short trip and warp away).
Dmg dealers would of course fit for some range and dmg, and since the warp in spawn point radius is set, position outside the disruption radius, but inside their optimal.
A lot of effort ? Don't think so, with this setup you can gate camp without risk, and with almost 100% success.
So nice it is.
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Cristian Rosseman
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Posted - 2003.12.14 10:06:00 -
[54]
if i'm correct will the travel time be balanced thru a increased warp speed..,?
but 1 thing i still don't understand is the point about people jumping to a gate in 0.0 space which is being camped (on the other side at the jip point and jumpgate to the system u came from.)will u have to wait a few seconds before u can starting to lock someone?
if thats so then most 0.0 regions will be hard to enter due to all those gate campers.,,
take in mind that u will get gangs of 10+ that will camp those gates., which will be profitable for either the one who's first sit's there ... ic a whole bunch of players that will train some alts to sit there with some ew/misile equipment ., 
- Ascendancy Inc - - Corp Fun Level . |
Ralimenua
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Posted - 2003.12.14 11:45:00 -
[55]
Quote:
if i'm correct will the travel time be balanced thru a increased warp speed..,?
In theory... but not really, bearing in mind you've got to:
1. Move 17.5km to the gate to jump.
2. Move 8km out of the WDF to warp.
Maybe over 60 jump hauls with some 100AU warps in between... but not if your cap. is at zero when you warp, because you've had to run your MWD to get to the gate before you're debris surrounding a capsule. |
Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.12.14 19:44:00 -
[56]
Quote:
A note on Travel times: They are a little excessive. How about having the no warpsphere neededing activation by the camping force, perhaps using an existing module: Energy transfer to the gate for example.
Then empty systems can be passed quickly.
There should be more regional fluctuations in PC prices in eve. Longer travel times will help that a lot.
Agree with the whole post, especially this point.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.14 21:42:00 -
[57]
yes i would have to agree, that it would be a cool feature IF, say the gates in 0.0 are not that great and they do have some warp disruption going on but its like 2.5-5km... and CCP could make a module with high skill req and a lot of power maybe req more ships to do it.. but what it would do is overload or something the gate to cause the warp disruption to go out to 20km
in empire space that could not be done, or would be very very difficult since the empire has advanced the tech and made sure that there gates are stable etc...
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
White Tiger
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Posted - 2003.12.15 00:20:00 -
[58]
Originally posted by Zarthan:
Quote:
Senty Guns- Are now in every empire space solar system. Ok now the gate campers are gone from .4-.1 . The Bookmark nerf was promised then to balance this change but did not happen.
I am not surprised to hear you complain about this...GRIN
Sure, the Gate campers are gone from 0.4-0.1 systems but did this stop you Grievers? No...You just started camping the JIPs; deploying mining drones and cons to lag your victim long enough for you to get a lock on them and smoke 'em.
And the "bookmark" nerf is no nerf at all. I have seen numerous grievers use bookmarks to get away from hunter groups. I myself have used bookmarks to get past Griever blockades. So both of your arguments/complaints are baseless.
Quote:
MWD- Mucho uber with 2 of these on you can run any and all gates. Controling space is impossible with MWD's. I tested this traveling into FA space NVA space etc etc. nobody ever was able to stop me. With the nerf now an mwd does not put you in GOD mode which it shouldn't so it's a good nerf.
Once again you complain about a "nerf" that you and other grievers use to successfully escape from hunter groups when you guys are doing other things (other than camping NPC rat spawns and JIPs). So once again you argument proves baseless.
What I haven't seen addressed here is whether webifying a target is still concidered a hostile act and whether or not the Sentry guns will deal with such presumably hostile acts with their regular finality.
If they do respond normally, then yes, this latest patch will put an end to pirate gate camping in Empire/State/Federation/Republic Space. But that is how it should be. Grievers are, for all intents and purposes CRIMINALS and should be limited to 0.0 space. To allow otherwise would be akin to renting a room to Ted Bundy and then protecting him from the cops when they show up to arrest him.
White Tiger
Founding Member and CEO of Tactical Advisory Group
"The Only Easy Day was Yesterday." |
Dragonday
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Posted - 2003.12.15 05:40:00 -
[59]
I think in the next few week we're going to see a lot of people leaving the game because of this. Some people will be dead before they're computer catches up with their ship. People with haulers won't want to haul after they've lost 2 or 3 ships in a row, Quit in furstration. Soon this game will be a ghost town. Abd being a Ghost town nobody will want to play. Word of mouth goes a long way. Forcing people to go PVP isn't fun for those people that don't want to. This game is fun because of the CHOISE factor. You have the CHOISE to go pvp. And NPC pirates camping the gates?? That's not cool eather. some poor guy in his n00bie ship jumps in a BLAMO looses it. Quit game in disgust. So far these thing that are suposed to make the game more fun, will end up ruining it.
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Hurm (?) (!) |
Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.12.15 14:25:00 -
[60]
The changes announced make this thread redundant . Unstickied.
Redundancy |
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