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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
H3llHound
Koshaku
Tactical Narcotics Team
66
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Posted - 2016.02.11 23:45:57 -
[31] - Quote
Fozzie, will the semiconductor memorycells rigs be changed aswell to provide boosts to neut resistance? |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
307
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Posted - 2016.02.11 23:50:29 -
[32] - Quote
Going to have to compare these side by side to the current modules and other cap options, but they sound more useful in principle. The cpu requirements sound way too high though still. |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
425
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Posted - 2016.02.12 00:16:23 -
[33] - Quote
I like the concept but need to use them a bit more to find out if they are useful at their current PG and CPU levels. They definitely need to be significantly better in terms of their cap bonus. You've got to bear in mind how valuable a mid slot is in PvP, and so to even think about fitting one in the first place these have got to be good.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2968
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Posted - 2016.02.12 00:21:16 -
[34] - Quote
I have to agree with the other posters about the requirements being way too high still. That was the main reason they were never used was the fitting requirements were 3-4 times higher than a cap recharger on CPU, and you had to sacrifice PG as well. You will still see low use with those CPU values. The PG values have gone up by a similar amount to the cap as well so you haven't really increased their efficiency much on PG either. |
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
The Otherworld
56
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Posted - 2016.02.12 00:39:13 -
[35] - Quote
This is by far the best tieracide I have seen so far in the upcoming patch. It really adds some spice to these once reject modules!
It's great to see the neutraliser resistance function is finally being realised. |
Kirzath
Concordiat
Spaceship Samurai
3
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Posted - 2016.02.12 00:40:53 -
[36] - Quote
"Large Ld-Acid Cap Battery I" is missing 'Compact' in the name. |
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
39
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:20:12 -
[37] - Quote
Why is the capacitor module added to minmatar lp stores instead of amarr lp stores? |
Zappity
Black Aces
I N F A M O U S
2674
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:22:28 -
[38] - Quote
You guys have done a stellar job getting all of these module groups out at the same time. The energy warfare resistance is a great addition, I love that damage controls are going passive and the falloff addition to sensor damps is nice. Top job all round, thanks.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Sturmwolke
681
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:31:13 -
[39] - Quote
Too many new RF mods. I'm sensing a heavy bias? Why? *
Cap warfare is an Amarr-ish specialization, makes little sense for RF to specialize in batteries..
*note Imperial Navy Cap Rechargers, Cap Relays etc. Are we to assume the Imperial Navy is incapable of producing good batteries?
Come on. There should be at least an Imperial Navy version. |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
556
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:31:50 -
[40] - Quote
STOP WITH THE MINMATAR BIAS FOR FUCKS SAKE. Why doesnt the master race of capacitor(amarr) have faction module in this line up?!
WHY!?
thats 3 more modules so far for the minmatar republic to wet its beak at the lp stores. seriously this is ridiculous fozzie.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Cristl
329
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:36:02 -
[41] - Quote
These still have super high fitting requirements. I would use the compact versions as the T1 baseline and see how that plays out on Sisi |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Friends and Feminists
368
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Posted - 2016.02.12 01:58:24 -
[42] - Quote
I love the proposed revamp. I can think of a few armor tanking fits I would love to use these on if the numbers were right.
But, using a cap booster is going to provide better resistance to neuts in most cases anyway. And, on some ships that could really benefit from the battery, there does not seem to be a way to usefully fit the battery in the first place. On a dual armor rep Deimos, for instance, the battery would be incredibly useful, but with only 4 mid slots there's nothing you can get away with replacing.
The other big problem is, the CPU is too high on all of the sizes, and the PG is too high on the small variant. I think they would only be worth using if they had roughly the same fitting requirements as cap boosters (or maybe with slightly more CPU but similar PG). To be honest, to really be worthwhile instead of a cap booster, the battery needs to provide more resistance to neut pressureGÇösuch as in the range of 30% or more.
Lower CPU, lower PG on the small, and higher neut resistance are my suggestions. |
Rovain Sess
Kameiran Order
Team Amarrica
42
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:00:10 -
[43] - Quote
Maybe just do this:
Hey, all you newer players; or any players thinking of joining FW, we as game developers are asking - actually sorta coercing you to favor the Minmatar. Just to show that we are serious about our desire to aid this faction - we will add items to their LP stores that many a pilot would like to have. Please remember that we can't directly support a side - but - hey actions don't speak louder than words.
Maybe its me - but i'm becoming more and more disallusioned by the term - "Balanced".
Fin |
Anomilk Dairlylover
Lazerhawks
15
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:00:53 -
[44] - Quote
I'm a bit sad that most of this tiercide will actually end up being a general nerf. A lot of cruiser fits which relied on large cap batteries will have to use mediums instead, and old large >>> new mediums.
I hope the resist bonus works out well. The reflect is the sole reason why we put them on some of our doctrine ships.
Quote:This is actually a change that we began in December but there was a significant bug with it that we are fixing along with this Tiericide pass.
Guess we know why they haven't been reflecting for past ~2 months  |
Kibitt Kallinikov
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
Heiian Conglomerate
16
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:24:07 -
[45] - Quote
General comment - CPU cost is huge. I assume this is to make small sized cap batteries still have meaningful cost on larger ships.
As for small size in general, there's no justification for a frigate to fit one as far as I can see. You sacrifice an entire tank's worth of fitting space. The only combat frig that could do it and benefit from it would be Hawk, though I doubt the fit would be very competitive. Your most likely candidate is the Thalia.
I would start thinking of cap batteries being akin to shield extenders in a passive fit. You generally want to fit your size, and it has to have a huge impact but because of fitting restraints, you can't fit many at all. I'd say, make the GJ increase even higher for their respective sizes, maybe by 15% of the values you have here. |
exiik Shardani
Terpene Conglomerate
45
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:24:29 -
[46] - Quote
Cap boosters & cap recharges & capacitor power relays & power diagnostics and neuts & nos are Amarrian or true sansha, why the hell batteries suddenly minmatar and not Amarr or sansha?
as well it needs more capacitor (10% more) or less cpu requirements
sry for my English :-(
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Alexis Nightwish
406
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Posted - 2016.02.12 02:27:58 -
[47] - Quote
Came expecting cap batteries to be worth their fitting cost. Left disappointed.
(PS Fozzie, no one uses them because they suck. Make the not suck and maybe we will)
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3495
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Posted - 2016.02.12 03:04:06 -
[48] - Quote
i can't imagine minmatar can build batteries
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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elitatwo
Eve Minions
The-Company
1068
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Posted - 2016.02.12 03:25:43 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:...We are also adding faction cap batteries for the Republic Fleet, Dominations and Thukker Tribe....
Is there a reason why minmatar are getting those? Those should me modules for the Amarr Navy or Sanshas or Blood Raider since the Amarr are the masters of capacitor and the barbariens have no use for capacitor anyways.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Jajuka Cirim
23
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Posted - 2016.02.12 04:00:28 -
[50] - Quote
Why is Small the only class that gets two Meta 6 storylines? Just not worried about providing for niche fits on larger ships? |
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Trajan Unknown
Rifterlings
Zero.Four Ops
75
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Posted - 2016.02.12 05:41:32 -
[51] - Quote
Make them useful by rethinking the fitting costs, give them to Amarr as stated by several others and we will be happy.
If cap batteries would be less effective than cap boosters but have a better sustain it would be perfect I-¦d say. With the current numbers I can-¦t see any fit who could replace any module for the battery. 40CPU is pretty harsh to fit. |
Lena Lazair
Sefrim
553
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Posted - 2016.02.12 06:01:28 -
[52] - Quote
Thukker Tribe? Why not stick them in the equally pointless Khanid LP store? At least it would make sense thematically.
Also I agree with others, these aren't competitive with cap injectors yet. Not at these fitting costs... |
Lauren Vaille
Dutch East Querious Company
Phoebe Freeport Republic
4
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Posted - 2016.02.12 06:10:03 -
[53] - Quote
One thing I've always disliked about the smaller batteries is that they're mostly useless compared to cap rechargers.
I'm very fond of sticking a large battery on my dual rep VNI or ishtar (ESPECIALLY the ishtar thanks to its already low cap recharge time) but when I've tried using say a small battery on a frigate or a medium on a cruiser, the benefits just aren't there.
The neut resistance is a nice start, don't get me wrong - I don't think any pilot alive (or even CCP) could tell you exactly how the reflection mechanic works right now, but right now the batteries of a given class are just not worth using on the same class of ship - a small battery is no way near as useful on a small ship as a compact medium variant is, and a large battery is only useful on a cruiser.
They do bugger all compared to cap rechargers on a battleship - like my Hyperion here - a cap recharger is better in every way. (shh I have no blasters handy where I am atm)
http://i.imgur.com/ZoG1sIg.png
Even compared to power diagnostic systems, they're kinda crap. Power diags give a capacitor capacity increase, AND recharge rate increase, AND do the same for shields, AND give a power grid boost - for a significantly reduced fitting cost.
I do not believe the changes proposed will increase their use or versatility. They are either a niche use case for active tanked ships with already good recharge and plenty of spare fitting room, OR they are a way for carriers to bounce back some of those annoying geddon and bhaal neuts.
As was addressed in your criticism of ECCM in literally the next thread over, while you do get an inherent bonus to cap recharge thanks to the capacity bonus, it's not really significant enough to make it so that someone fitting a cap battery with their large fitting costs simply in the hopes that they will run into an enemy with neuts will spent their trip going 'oh man i'm so glad I had this extra +2 per second cap recharge instead of a web, or a shield extender, or an MWD instead of an afterburner' (since battery bonuses are ******** to stack with MWD's as well)
However, if you added a recharge rate bonus, even a very slight one, similar to a power diagnostic system (say even 3-5%) then I believe you would have a significantly more useful module, that would be very enticing for people to fit on their ships given enough fitting room.
Since the neut resistances are going to be good (plus I see you're adding to the cap provided by the mods by a moderate amount), I would say go on the lower end of the spectrum - perhaps between 3 and 5%, maybe 7.5% on the faction modules.
This would make the modules much more viable when considering between them, cap boosters and cap rechargers, as well as power diagnostic systems - even on the larger ships which don't benefit so much from an increased capacitor amount as opposed to recharge rate bonuses.
Also, it would make it worthwhile to use the same sized cap battery for the ship that they were going on, WITHOUT risking gimping the fit of the ship - sure, fitting a large battery would give cap for days on any smaller ship after these changes, but combined with your proposed powergrid requirement increases this would severely limit the options when trying to complete the fit.
As a follow on to this, it would also make it viable to use them with microwarp drives, because while you would be fitting a hefty module onto your ship which your MWD then neuts (lol) 50% of the bonuses of, you could still get that tiny bit of cap recharge rate to help counteract it.
CCP, I love these modules and see they have a lot of potential, but I do think that to encourage their more widespread use and make them actually viable when compared to either cap boosters or rechargers, I strongly recommend making this last adjustment.
tl;dr to make these modules less of a niche than they are now and a viable alternative to either cap boosters or cap rechargers, simply make it so they have a tiny amount of cap recharge in addition to the current changes.
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Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
24
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Posted - 2016.02.12 06:42:43 -
[54] - Quote
did a quick check on fits with new batteries:
Large batteries are ok. Medium and small batteries need to downsize the CPU for fitting.
50 nad 60 CPU for small battery is very-very strange. 35-45% of frig CPU by one module? strange.
60 CPU for medium battery II will be in fine.
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Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
76
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Posted - 2016.02.12 07:31:06 -
[55] - Quote
This is DEFFINITELY a step in the right direction, but not enough of a step. Their fitting cost to benefit is still very bad. I think the benefits they provide are perfect though, from a slot cost perspective. They could use about 15% less cpu and grid cost across the board for their current benefits. I think that would make them a great cap booster alternative for a good number of ships. Dual rep and laser ships would still need boosters, while cap free ships would like the passive defense for their hardners and props. |
Cyrek Ohaya
Blazing Sun Group
21
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Posted - 2016.02.12 07:58:10 -
[56] - Quote
It hasn't been mentioned yet on this thread but anything that improves buffer such as armor/shield or capacitor is somewhat connected to their corresponding remote assisted module. What cap warfare needs, in fleets specially is a way to tell a player how much capacitor another fleetmate has in their stores much like how much hit points they have on my Watch List, I know ship scanners exist to provide that information but cmon, we need some quality of life changes. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
2320
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Posted - 2016.02.12 08:16:08 -
[57] - Quote
Lauren Vaille wrote:One thing I've always disliked about the smaller batteries is that they're mostly useless compared to cap rechargers.
I'm very fond of sticking a large battery on my dual rep VNI or ishtar (ESPECIALLY the ishtar thanks to its already low cap recharge time) but when I've tried using say a small battery on a frigate or a medium on a cruiser, the benefits just aren't there.
I cannot agree there, at least with my "limited" experience in them. I use a Small T2 Battery on my Astero to run Blood Raider DEDs and it works surprisingly well at reducing the neutralizer pressure from the long range neutralizer cruisers.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus
Odin's Call
1008
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Posted - 2016.02.12 08:58:57 -
[58] - Quote
I had a single ship that has ever fitted a battery and thats a C3 ratting EOS ... pretty rare in of its self lol
No chance of fitting it now... none zero zip....
Buffs are nice but you took with the other hand and made them impossible to fit...
ADD THE BUFFS >>> KEEP THE FITTING THE SAME!!!!
No Worries
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
309
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Posted - 2016.02.12 09:29:53 -
[59] - Quote
So, had a closer look at the numbers - these are better than I first thought. Each level gives significantly more cap bonus than the current ones, it's not just a case of being pointless unless you oversize now. There is also huge variation in the fitting requirements of different meta levels that will open up some options. That Thukker large battery is very strong looking - although I think the fact it's minmatar faction is crazy, surely it should be Amarr Navy / Blood Raiders from a lore perspective?
Fozzie - please can you update the OP to include the before/after stats for comparison? I think it would really help here. |
Vulfen
Snuff Box
Snuffed Out
183
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Posted - 2016.02.12 09:39:27 -
[60] - Quote
Fozzie
Please can you clarify the cap resistance stat.
Here they are both listed as the same value (25% on T2) however on the existing modules you have 25% nos 12.5% neut resistances.
Does this mean now that they 2 values of resistance will be the same? i.e you will reflect 25% on both a nos and a neut. |
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