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Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 620	Posted - 2016.02.14 13:09:00 - [1] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: there was restrictions then vets moaned because they were being penalised more for playing longer, they cant win really They just opted to listen to those who weren't completely opposed to the idea of SP trading. Within that minority, the ones intending to swap around skills on high-SP characters were the majority. At least that's my impression. CCP just lisened to the community - somewhat selectively, but they did. And that's what we ended up with.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 628	Posted - 2016.02.16 16:46:21 - [2] - Quote The Character Bazaar - even though I don't like it was not too bad. Character trading is going to happen anyway in an MMOG, whether it's allowed or not. So, I think it's better to allow it in a regulated, controlled fashion than to let it run wild on ebay.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 629	Posted - 2016.02.16 17:33:32 - [3] - Quote Avvy wrote: Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. That alone makes the CB much better (or less bad) than SP trading. Now it's pushed into everybodys face, which in and of itself creates some kind of pressure to buy some SP already. Also - you could never buy anything on the CB that was impossible to achieve without normal skill training. So, you could not buy a maxed out character. Now you can. True, it's much more expensive than the CB, but the simple fact that this character exists is proof that balancing something through the price does not work.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 635	Posted - 2016.02.16 21:01:38 - [4] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? I'd probably opt to not cross an ocean, but if I really had to and could afford it, I'd pick the boat. Well - a ship, just because a "boat" implies that it's not actually capable of crossing an ocean. Through being able to cross an ocean in just a couple of hours people have come to expect you to. Everything needs to be fast, everyone needs to be mobile and available anywhere anytime. It's rather stressful. I'm not saying that jet planes and mobile phones don't have their merits, but with them comes a lot of bullshit I have to deal with now every day. If it was still socially acceptable (and possible) to not have a phone, travel by carriage or ship and send letters via horseback courier, I'd certainly prefer that. I don't need everything right now.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 637	Posted - 2016.02.16 21:15:02 - [5] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Too bad you died of cholera. I can live with that. No - wait ... I can't.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 637	Posted - 2016.02.16 21:32:16 - [6] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: The notion that people MUST use skill injectors to get a maxed out character is just dumb. I for one will not spend $30,000 doing that. Not unless I get a substantial boost to my income like an order of magnitude boost...and even then...still probably wouldn't. I'd probably rather spend it doing a Pat O'Brien. Of course it's dumb. But I've already read articles on how SP trading is great for alliance leaders, because they can now insist that people train doctrine ships. Which implies that they can be expected to purchase SP injectors every time a new meta comes along. Now, of course I do have the option to not go along with this bullshit (and I won't), should it ever come to this. I also have the option to not play this game. It's not so much about how this is goint to affect me directly. But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. The ones who are fine with dumping money into the game might be more compelled to stay than those who don't if they get Gold Ammo plastered on their faces from day one. (I know it's not Gold Ammo, but to someone who doesn't know jack about the game it sure does look like it.) Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 637	Posted - 2016.02.16 21:45:25 - [7] - Quote helana Tsero wrote: Neuntausend wrote: ......... But should alliance leaders actually come to expect people to buy Injectors, it will eventually drive those unwilling to out of the game. And that would include myself. And self centered as I am, I don't like the notion of that. It would also influence the type of newbie that will find it's way into the game. . Good thing is, at this point it's only a hypothetical scenario that may never come to be, but it makes me wonder if CCP thought about this. LOL... if Mittani actually tried this it would be the death of the goons. wait... yes actually he should make you all buy injectors. encourage him ! That's not how social expectations work. People typically won't straight up tell you to behave a certain way, even if they expect you to. But if you don't they'll just not bother with you. I'm not so much afraid of alliance leaders saying "you have to buy injectors" all of a sudden - nobody in their right mind would do that. It's more the common consensus that it's "normal" to buy Injectors that may take hold in the community. Once that has happened, it doesn't matter if anyone actually demands the use of Injectors once a new doctrine pops up. People will just do it, and those who don't will get left behind. Admittedly, that's a bit of a horror scenario I am painting here, but it's certainly not impossible.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 640	Posted - 2016.02.16 22:37:10 - [8] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: The insistence to train doctrine ships has always been there in the serious alliances. At least it was with EXE. Back in the day it was "do not fly a BS if you did not have T2 guns". The reason put forward were manifold, but I'll list 2 points. 1. If you fly a ship other than the doctrine the FC cannot do what he wants because of varying ranges/DPS. Kitchen sink fleets are always beaten by doctrine fleets (assuming similar size). 2. The alliance and its leadership have worked, with the help of line members, to have space to use and one of the requirements is to actively work towards training doctrine ships. The idea, that this demand will suddenly appear is misleading, IMO, in that it has already been there. Alliances have doctrines - of course. But without the possibility to just inject SP whenever, one can only change the doctrine every so often to allow the players to catch up, and typically we get a bit of a warning beforehand so we can at least train T2 guns or a certain hull in time. But a day may come where Alliances switch doctrines on a whim because players can just buy the skills they need. Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful. Also, what about those who are not us and therefore not spacerich?
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 640	Posted - 2016.02.16 23:00:04 - [9] - Quote stg slate wrote: Neuntausend wrote: Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful. Also, what about those who are not us and therefore not spacerich? I remember one day 1 on goonswarm people kept throwing huge piles of ISK at me even though all I could fly was a coercer. I was a billionaire and I never asked for a dime and even told people to stop donating me ISK. On the upside I flew a pimpin coercer in every fleet battle i was in, because why the **** not? Yeah, that's just us being us. As usual, goons will be fine. We always are.

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