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Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:31:00 - [1] Dear Sirs, I strongly suggest you do a check of your loot tables, in particular the ones used in empire for missions or complexes. The test I suggest is a simple one: generate 100 loot tables for every mission and complex and look how much of them have items even marginally desiderable. As you are gamers and not only Developers, you know the game and what is used or liked. You will find that on 100 mission you will keep at most 10 items. Not top of the line items, simply usable and better than most common ones. I don't want faction or officer items in every mission (as someone will surely start to cry), but finding 1 or 2 low level named items in a high end mission, with numerous enemyes is really disheartening, even worst usually they are totally uninteresting (named remote armor repair systems? The nth named warp disruptor?). When I started playing the loot usually had a value paragonable to the bounty value of the enemyes, today it 1/4 of that (and the bountyes have ben reduced too). The reduction is partially compensated by the salvage, but while salvage is interesting, it is mostly unsalable. But even if you feel that it is needed to keep the current walue of item dropped, at least make them 1-2 decent items, not 25 worth only reprocessing. In the last missions I have done, both in 0.5 and 0.3 systems, the only value of the loot was in the reprocessed minerals, nothing in usable or sellable items.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:31:00 - [2] Dear Sirs, I strongly suggest you do a check of your loot tables, in particular the ones used in empire for missions or complexes. The test I suggest is a simple one: generate 100 loot tables for every mission and complex and look how much of them have items even marginally desiderable. As you are gamers and not only Developers, you know the game and what is used or liked. You will find that on 100 mission you will keep at most 10 items. Not top of the line items, simply usable and better than most common ones. I don't want faction or officer items in every mission (as someone will surely start to cry), but finding 1 or 2 low level named items in a high end mission, with numerous enemyes is really disheartening, even worst usually they are totally uninteresting (named remote armor repair systems? The nth named warp disruptor?). When I started playing the loot usually had a value paragonable to the bounty value of the enemyes, today it 1/4 of that (and the bountyes have ben reduced too). The reduction is partially compensated by the salvage, but while salvage is interesting, it is mostly unsalable. But even if you feel that it is needed to keep the current walue of item dropped, at least make them 1-2 decent items, not 25 worth only reprocessing. In the last missions I have done, both in 0.5 and 0.3 systems, the only value of the loot was in the reprocessed minerals, nothing in usable or sellable items.
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:35:00 - [3] Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread
ArtemisEntreri Turbulent	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:35:00 - [4] Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:37:00 - [5] I made 250 million ISK selling this not so good named items in the newbie systems. What I could not sell I refined for the minerals. It was a win win thing for me. Mission rewards, bounties, sales, and recycle material. So I would think changeing these loot tables would'nt be needed. But at the same time, I think missions should be limeted down to max 3 a day. And more penalties for turning down the boaring ones. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:37:00 - [6] I made 250 million ISK selling this not so good named items in the newbie systems. What I could not sell I refined for the minerals. It was a win win thing for me. Mission rewards, bounties, sales, and recycle material. So I would think changeing these loot tables would'nt be needed. But at the same time, I think missions should be limeted down to max 3 a day. And more penalties for turning down the boaring ones. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:47:00 - [7] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 02/02/2007 19:45:15 Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread 13 millons/hour of active missioning, loot, salvage and bonuty included. You have ever done them in the last months to have recent data? And if you read what I wrote I suggest a check, mostly on the quality of the items in the loot, then the Dev will decide if a change is warranted or not. I think that costantly reducing the loot for fear of exploits and never doing missions (as they are nauseated by those after testing them for bugs), they have lost the perception of what are the items that currently are given out.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Roshan longshot I made 250 million ISK selling this not so good named items in the newbie systems. What I could not sell I refined for the minerals. It was a win win thing for me. Mission rewards, bounties, sales, and recycle material. So I would think changeing these loot tables would'nt be needed. But at the same time, I think missions should be limeted down to max 3 a day. And more penalties for turning down the boaring ones. Picking the items to sell in how much time and how much missions?
Pepperami Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:51:00 - [9] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread [EVE TASK BAR?]
Exlegion New Light Schism.	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Roshan longshot But at the same time, I think missions should be limeted down to max 3 a day. And more penalties for turning down the boaring ones. /Agreed And to balance things off pirates should only be allowed 3 kills per day. And more penalties for not engaging other PVP ships.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.02.02 19:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Roshan longshot I made 250 million ISK selling this not so good named items in the newbie systems. What I could not sell I refined for the minerals. It was a win win thing for me. Mission rewards, bounties, sales, and recycle material. So I would think changeing these loot tables would'nt be needed. But at the same time, I think missions should be limeted down to max 3 a day. And more penalties for turning down the boaring ones. Picking the items to sell in how much time and how much missions? 4-5 missions a day...3-5 days a week...7 weeks. But that 250 million is only the sales of the loot I did not want to keep. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:08:00 - [12] So 447= 112 missions = 2 million in sold loot for mission. Let's say what you keep is worth duble that 4 millions for mission. Total worth of the lot for (I suppose) a level 4 mission = 6 millions. Time to run and loot that 1-2 hours, if you use a raven with T2 gear and a salvage ship.
Ralus eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:12:00 - [13] I've recently been doing some missions and yes this: Originally by: Venkul Mul 13 millons/hour of active missioning, loot, salvage and bonuty included. You have ever done them in the last months to have recent data? Is about accurate, in fact probably slightly more than I was getting but not a lot. People need to get there head out the sand and realize that missions have been nerfed since they last ran them, a dedicated mission runner in secure high sec space will make about as much as a dedicated high sec miner, let nobody seems to complain about the miners. However back on topic about loot tables, I don't believe that they can be balanced that much, items fall in and out of favor, the constant nerf/boost means that what was once hot property is now worthless and trying to ask a dev to be constantly rebalancing those values is impossible. I think missions will have to stay they way they've always been, you celebrate when you hit it lucky, everything else just gets reprocessed.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:14:00 - [14] I think the loot is perfectly balanced. I make about 12-13 million per mission, not including salvage and loot, and if you include that, it's up towards 20 million (gotta love salvage ) That's quite enough for the level of risk (= close to zero) involved. Better loot can be found by ratting in 0.0, just as it should be. /Ki Haven't got one yet?
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:22:00 - [15] Dunno if I ever get any uber loot. Unless something catches my eye on the way to my cargo, it all goes into my 'loot' station container. When that's full, it all gets reprocessed!
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:26:00 - [16] the loot system is quite fine u want to make ISK goto 0.0
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.02 20:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Pepperami Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread Half Assed Rhymage
Gorion Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai	Posted - 2007.02.03 04:11:00 - [18] I just want to know why I keep finding Serpetis logs on Sanshas.... ----- results may vary
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Serenity Fallen	Posted - 2007.02.03 04:18:00 - [19] zomg Retired [ISSN] [Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy
Cmdr Delrox Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.03 04:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Pepperami Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread I agree loot tables needed to be looked at. I like the way they fixed the Empire missions to make them less desirable as ways of earning income for players. There was not much risk involved for the amount of money being made. A move should be made to naught point naught for better reward for the risk involved. -------------
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.02.03 05:50:00 - [21] Edited by: Soulita on 03/02/2007 05:49:23 Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread It is just as much a myth that lvl4 missions are easy as it is that pvp is hard. People lose ships in both. Of course experienced mission runners do not lose many ships mission running, just as experienced pvpers do not lose very many ships pvping. Still there is a risk to both. Also, do you realize how little additional risk (besides that of the mission itself) there is running missions in 0.0 if you own the space?
Fauza	Posted - 2007.02.03 06:04:00 - [22] Ratting in low sec is already much more dangerous and usually gets us less money...
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.02.03 07:11:00 - [23] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Do you realize how much isk you can make risk-free in high-sec doing missions? Btw this reply will probably be every second in this thread Lost a ship today.... yeah it sure is risk free. I had rigs too asshat. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.03 07:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Fauza Ratting in low sec is already much more dangerous and usually gets us less money... Again: how much every hour of active ratting, included salvage and loot? I have put a precise range of income: between 10 million to 20 million hour, including in the average the storyline missions. If you want to add the LP good offer Navy Raven for 500K LP and 200 millions in tags. Sell price 1 billion. So another 5 millions for every mission. And 150 missions with the same agent to get it.
Samirol OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.02.03 07:25:00 - [25] you dont die in missions unless you are stupid or you get lagged out
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.02.03 07:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Samirol you dont die in missions unless you are stupid or you get lagged out Or you get scrammed by three npcs at the same time (1 str, 2% chance) and go pop. Doesn't happen a lot, but obviously, it can (and does) happen. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Topaz Skydiver	Posted - 2007.02.03 07:52:00 - [27] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Fauza Ratting in low sec is already much more dangerous and usually gets us less money... Again: how much every hour of active ratting, included salvage and loot? I have put a precise range of income: between 10 million to 20 million hour, including in the average the storyline missions. If you want to add the LP good offer Navy Raven for 500K LP and 200 millions in tags. Sell price 1 billion. So another 5 millions for every mission. And 150 missions with the same agent to get it. If you make 15 to 25 mil per hour with missions including everything like LP offers, then it seems more than enough, because bigger rewards are for 0.0 and/or people, who chose a more intelligent individual way to earn money.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.02.03 08:15:00 - [28] I agree that there is some loot that I could just do without; civilian shield boosters and 75mm rail I's come to mind, along with lead and iron charges (small... charges). It takes me 5 minutes to cover the 50 km I killed the rats at to find out that I've been given the EVE-equivalent of candy-corn as a treat. I'd rather have nothing but empty wrecks EXCEPT rare drops.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.03 08:54:00 - [29] Originally by: Samirol you dont die in missions unless you are stupid or you get lagged out The same in ratting or mining. This is about PvE, not PvP. The risk are exactly the same: hi sec low; low sec high wile getting in - getting out - doing your thing (yes, the risk doing missions or ratting in low sec is very near equal: the rattler has way better chance to escape but is easier to spot, the mission runner is harder to spot but when found is a easyer prey as he as more things to cheeck that a single spawn of rats in a belt and waymore damage to soak). 0.0 moderate War to control of a territory is another thing. With different reward/costs. And can get you even in empire.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.03 09:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 03/02/2007 07:54:46 Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Fauza Ratting in low sec is already much more dangerous and usually gets us less money... Again: how much every hour of active ratting, included salvage and loot? I have put a precise range of income: between 10 million to 20 million hour, including in the average the storyline missions. If you want to add the LP good offer Navy Raven for 500K LP and 200 millions in tags. Sell price 1 billion. So another 5 millions for every mission. And 150 missions with the same agent to get it. If you make 15 to 25 mil per hour with missions including everything like LP offers, then it seems more than enough, because bigger rewards are for 0.0 people, group activities that require more effort or for players, who have found their individual not so straight forward way to earn isk. edit made my point clearer You still, accurately avoid to give a value to what you get in PvE in 0.0. We know that mining, at the curret deflated prices for high end minerals can give more than 100 millions hour. 5x an average of 20 millions (BTW, I have forgot to factor the minerals for the Raven, so in reality the average is about 1 million lower, 19). Ratting and complex running? From what I read complex can give multi billion rewards, so 50x? 100x? Or it is a fable and you get lower rewards? As long as you refran for giving some hard data, I can only think, based on what I read, that you get about 1 billion every hour of active ratting/complex running (pew-pew and looting/salvaging, not moving around, chatting, ecc).

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