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Contract Scam: Corporate Auction

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2PackLivesForever	Posted - 2007.02.03 04:22:00 - [1] auctioning ur items to a corp does not allow for reserve price, so look very carefully when u set price. set it so that start bid = buyout bid is about ur only way out, ccp probably wont reimburse u or use their power to delete ur contract while the auction is still running with the minimum bid in place List of scammers running this atm: Corillia Fenian
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.03 05:08:00 - [2] I think what the OP means is that if a corporation places a winning bid at auction the reserve price is ignored. Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU!
JellyDot	Posted - 2007.02.03 05:16:00 - [3] actually what i'm trying to point out is the loophole ppl are using to scam ppl; Create Contract -> Auction -> Private -> Set it to a corporate then u'll notice that it doesnt allow u to put in a reserve price, and then buyers typically ask for 1M start bid to "avoid paying tax". and when auction is up, then place the minimum bid then auction can't be taken off at all, unless GM has the power to do that... if standard public auction is able to set reserve, why shouldn't other auction types have it too.. Please close this loophole CCP
Karille Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.03 06:18:00 - [4] I still don't understand what you're trying to say, your corp mates are scamming you? _________________________________________________________
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.03 06:28:00 - [5] u got scammed by another corp ?
Natasha Kerensky The Company Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.03 06:46:00 - [6] Wait, youre saying if i auction my stuff off to a specific corp, that corp can take all my stuff for 1 mill? Would setting the start bid to a decent amount not fix this problem?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.03 07:09:00 - [7] If I get it right he is saying that, when auctioning to a corporation, if you start an auction at an artificially low price to avoid the station tax, as you can't put a reserve price to buy back the item, the one buying it can get it for a low price. It seem fair, you avoid the tax but run a larger risk of not getting the money you want.
AvatarADV	Posted - 2007.02.03 08:27:00 - [8] You shouldn't use an "auction" contract if you are in contact with the bidder. Either just meet and trade the item, or use an "item exchange" contract. Proper tool for the proper job...
Syril Mert Serenity Technology	Posted - 2007.02.03 09:20:00 - [9] Whats the purpose of a reserve?
Spix 'UK	Posted - 2007.02.03 13:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Syril Mert Whats the purpose of a reserve? you Noob! LOL Its so that you can put a tiny price tag on a item to get more bidders in .. but if they dont meet the price you would wish to sell the item at , u can simply not sell & try again at another date.. Do you never watch the road show ?
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.02.03 13:31:00 - [11] This is a non-issue. You are trying to scam the tax collectors by using an auction contract in a way that its not intended. If you are doing an item exchange, use an item exchange contract. Simple.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.02.03 14:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 03/02/2007 13:59:20 This is a loophole with you, not with the game. There is no tax. You have been tricked into avoiding something that is not there. Sad that it took 10 replies to point it out.
Cillin MacroGenesis Industries	Posted - 2007.02.03 18:55:00 - [13] Its just another tool in the contract scammers bag of tricks. I recently had corrillia (sp) try it on me as well. Also a guy named "Magic Hat". They have some pretty convoluted rationales for why I should use a private auction instead of a straight item exchange... and why they cant simply bid on my public auctions. General rule is if it smells odd, its probably a scam.
ostropel	Posted - 2007.02.05 00:37:00 - [14] Yeah, here is an example, a mail I just received: Quote: From: Captain Zyrian Re: offer Hello, My corp is interested in purchasing your xxx for x billion isk To make up for the fact you have to take down the contract I will share a little tip with you to avoid being taxed. If you setup the item in an auction contract specifically to my corporation with the buyout as the price but leaving the starting bid as default it will not recognise that you should be charged the max tax amount and will save alot of isk. If your willing to accept my offer, simply make a the Contract Availabilty out to Metropolitian Evolutionary Genetics Association and send me the link so I can accept the contract. Cheers
Arthmandar Valikari Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:13:00 - [15] I am most appreciative that this thread exists, it just saved me 100 million. As a service to the community, I would add that the 'Mining Dutchman' also attempts to employ this scam technique. Luckily, he was bad at math, or I might have fallen for it (offered me 110 for an item that would cost him 103 to buy directly, as I wasn't running an auction at the time). Was fishy enough that I went looking for scam info, and here I am. :) Thanks to the OP for making this public knowledge. Eve really has an awesome community. Quote: I for one welcome our new centrifuge generated superchicken overlords. -- Delerium of Disorder
Brisi Veto.	Posted - 2007.02.16 00:28:00 - [16] The Dev's have stated that they will change the system so this won't be possible anymore. But until they do so, it's perfectly legal. Resistance is Fertile.
Diziet Linter	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Brisi The Dev's have stated that they will change the system so this won't be possible anymore. But until they do so, it's perfectly legal. Stated where? Link please. As to the concerns of the OP, and this thread in general... Please, don't be FLAMING MINDBOGGLINGLY DENSE AND STUPID, and you won't get scammed! This thread, and the general sentiment in it just made me sick. Private... Auction... Duh? Think? For 3 seconds? You make a private auction to a corp (usually a one-man corp). You set a low or zero starting price. "Private" means that ONLY members (or the ONLY member) of the corp can bid. NOTHING will compel these people to pay you your buyout price. Duh. Now tell me again, why did you set up this kind of "auction" for 100 million in faction loot? Or for that Navy Raven? You wanted to save 500K ISK so badly you did not THINK? Or you just did not think because it is... tough and painful? As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, there is NO broker fee on private contracts. You don't need to have a degree in interplanetary law to know that. There is also a contract system tutorial built into EVE. Even if there was a fee... Private... Auction... Duh????? I agree that some well-known scams just had to be nerfed. Like the old Escrow 1-unit-of-trit scam. Or the "239898 x Zydrine" scam. Because these relied, at least in part, on the deficiency of EVE user interface. But the bloody private auction scam? You've got to be kidding me. A private corp auction actually has legitimate use. My alliance and my corp actually use these all the time for their intended purpose. If this nice tool gets disabled because of the people like the OP, I will get seriously mad. Yes, I am an alt. No, I do not do scams - auction or otherwise.
Diziet Linter	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:43:00 - [18] And let me repeat again, there is NO loophole in this one. If there is one - show it to me. I have had a chance to talk to a guy who actually does scams on trade channels. He told me that this kind of scam has a very low response rate. Very, very low. Most people, according to him, just test out the item exchange contract type silently, and then inform him that the fees are actually the same. Or they set the starting price equal to the buyout. Or they tell him to bugger off. He scammed two people in a week. Out of about 400 convos. 2PackLivesForever, you are truly special. Oh, and Fenian is a known professional con man. No news here.
Kerushi Caldari AeroSpace Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.16 01:59:00 - [19] Edited by: Kerushi on 16/02/2007 01:55:39 simple question: would u do it with a public auction? i`ll bet it`s no, cause if ppl don`t see it u don`t get squat auction to corp, no one sees it besides that person it has been warned more times then anyone can count to what is it with some ppl? now imagine it said "corperation" instead of "character", would it make sense? why do ppl keep falling for it? opressed greed? 3x cap rig I hyperion for sale
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:02:00 - [20] IT IS SPELLED TuPac FFS! 2pack!? 2packs of what? sugar!? Snip Not appropriate, email [email protected] with a link to the sig for a reason why - hutch
Diziet Linter	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin IT IS SPELLED TuPac FFS! 2pack!? 2packs of what? sugar!? Probably Osmium pellets in this case. Did you know that Osmium is the densest of all chemical elements?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Diziet Linter Originally by: Marcus TheMartin IT IS SPELLED TuPac FFS! 2pack!? 2packs of what? sugar!? Probably Osmium pellets in this case. Did you know that Osmium is the densest of all chemical elements? intrigued look Fascinating tell me what are the uses of this element? Snip Not appropriate, email [email protected] with a link to the sig for a reason why - hutch
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:13:00 - [23] Originally by: Diziet Linter rant Pull your bloody horns in. There is more to this than just a few people falling for the scam. The scam only works because it's impossible to cancel the auction once someone has placed a bid. So they give you the old sob story about wanting to save a few bucks by doing it slightly differently. You create the private corp auction, they place the minimum bid and you can say bye bye to your nice faction loot because only their corp can place bids on it and now you can no longer cancel it. I've seen the requests from these scammers and they are often quite well and convincingly worded to make you think you are doing them a favour. Not everyone automatically assumes the worst in other people and nor does everyone spend their day trolling the forums to learn all the lastest loopholes peole have found to use to scam others. Berating and belittling someone for falling for a scam doesn't really help anyone. In my opinion, this scam is only a bee's ** away from being an exploit (not that my opinion matters, but there it is). The biggest issue for me is that now, whenever I place a sell auction for an expensive item I get spammed to hell by these crooks and it's starting to ** me off.
Diziet Linter	Posted - 2007.02.16 02:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: Diziet Linter rant snip The biggest issue for me is that now, whenever I place a sell auction for an expensive item I get spammed to hell by these crooks and it's starting to **** me off. I do share your sentiment about being spammed by crooks. It is indeed annoying, and happens to me too. A lot. I rat and sell plenty of faction loot. HOWEVER, if a "cancel auction" button is added to the auctions, as you suggest, they will become much less useful - in fact, they will become total crap. If any seller won't be satisfied with the going price, he would just cancel the auction. Other abuse possibilities are endless. I dislike RL examples, but IRL auction bids are always binding, as is the auction house obligation to sell the item for the going price. Look at Ebay. Ebay auction is binding to both bidder and seller in the last 24 hours. This is done specifically to discourage the sellers from backing out of the deals. This is done to reinforce the buyers' trust in the system. And my argument remains completely valid. You ABSOLUTELY DON'T need to troll the forums to understand that selling something at an auction is a risk. You might get less for your item than you want. This is universally true. You have a tool to protect yourself. It is called starting price. You know exactly how much an item is worth to you. Enter that amount in the window and click "Next". Done and finished. Of course, scammers word their requests very carefully. That is how they earn their living. There will always be scams. But if someone falls for this particular scam, her brain is made of solid 24-carat polished Osmium. You know, the densest of all chemical elements.
Kerushi Caldari AeroSpace Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.16 03:04:00 - [25] just saw 2 ppl fall for the corp auction i must say that quite a few ppl are just to stupid to hold any material value like carriers/bpo`s/isk sry but as of now i`ll lable every one that falls for it without using their brains just retards being warned here, in the same channels they get scammed in, mails, local what ever no brain trully is no gain think i`ll start a brokering service for every moron who wants to sell something abouve 100m trough contracts 3x cap rig I hyperion for sale
Quan Ko	Posted - 2007.02.16 03:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Kerushi just saw 2 ppl fall for the corp auction i must say that quite a few ppl are just to stupid to hold any material value like carriers/bpo`s/isk sry but as of now i`ll lable every one that falls for it without using their brains just retards being warned here, in the same channels they get scammed in, mails, local what ever no brain trully is no gain think i`ll start a brokering service for every moron who wants to sell something abouve 100m trough contracts A fool is born every minute. Southpark was right, 25% of the population is indeed stupid. .
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.02.16 03:52:00 - [27] Originally by: Diziet Linter HOWEVER, if a "cancel auction" button is added to the auctions, as you suggest, they will become much less useful Erm... did I suggest that? Don't think I did. I agree that it would be bad if people could cancel an auction you have bid on but it is the root cause of the loophole that is being exploited here. I'm not really sure of the best way to fix this, perhaps it's a simple as a warning message, although I'm sure even that idea would be the cause of much anger for some people. To me, this issue is similar to the "warring gang" exploit that is used by some people. They use a game mechanic in a way it was never intended to bypass certain warning that one would normally get and you see the same sort of repsonses when someone comes to the forum to complain about falling for it... "noob", "you must be stupid to have fallen for that, any idoit could see it was a trap", "blah blah blah". Well, as i said in my original post, not everyone spends their life trying to think of ways to **** other people over and not everyone assumes the worst in others. Unfortunately these are the people that often fall for these scams and I feel truly sorry for them as it's often quite a rude awakening to the depths that people will go to to cheat and line their own pockets. Of course, there are also those that fall for these scams because they are greedy, for these people I have some sympathy, but not as much. Then there are the other people that fall for them because they are totally stupid and for those people I really don't have any sympathy because these are the same people that make me angry with their stupidity IRL and when I get angry my heart starts missing beats and that is really quite uncomfortable Cheers
ScorpyNZ	Posted - 2007.02.16 04:27:00 - [28] Ok, I had a simple post in mind but after reading all the messages I would like to point out a fact to some of the 'know all' people here. Ignorance is not stupidity, do not insult the players that have been ripped off, its bad enough that it has happened without it being rubbed in the nose by other players. YES it is a scam, and as always the new players are the ones that fall victim. My mate just got scammed, by a 1 day corp. He is new to the game and he was talked through a process for a private corp auction with low mimimum bid by a 'helpful' player, this time by 'Lucy Pew'. He realised as soon as it went through and the player logged off that he had been scammed to the tune of 900 million. We petitioned and got into a dialogue with a CCP volunteer to try and cancel the contract, only to be told in a very polite way 'tough', its allowed in the game. It's not allowed in real life, and there are consequences for such actions, so why should good honest regular players, and new players be so badly screwed and then denied help. In real life you would contact the police and they would arrest the scammer. If detected too late the police cannot usually catch the criminals, whereas here CCP know exactly who they are and allow them to operate, despite numerous players begging it to be stopped. The message here is the scammers are patted on the back and told well done for screwing someone over, go do it again. Players will leave the game, I have grown very unfond of the game since this as it will take us a long time to recover, if at all, from this hit. CCP's volunteer reaction to this was to tell us not to let them 'win' by leaving the game. HUH - they did win, we were screwed. Our only way to recover from this is to create a new character of our own and scam someone else out of their money. I pay a monthly subscription, which as well as a game makes this a 'service' that I pay for. If an obvious scam like this is caught in action, CCP SHOULD cancel the contract, or give the seller the ability to cancel the contract. This is supposed to be the 2nd best MMOL game, help the people that are paying for the service when they ask for help damn it. As a footnote, I realise that all scam victims are picked on due to their ignorance, its not the scammed players crime, dont call them stupid. There is a lot to get hold of in this game, we all need help from someone to pick through the many systems in place, its quite easy to get duped by an experienced scammer.
Sarafin Khain	Posted - 2007.02.16 04:30:00 - [29] Add this guy to the list Yera Hamisi
Kaeai	Posted - 2007.02.16 05:17:00 - [30] ScorpyNZ, This is the beautiful thing about EVE, there is noone there to hold your hand and get your items back, your success, or failure is solely down to you and your friends (or enemies) to decide. There are plenty of MMORPGs that will hold your hand and give you your stuff back if your scammed or blown up, EVE thankfully doesn't follow this attitude. Indeed part of the charm is these elements of gameplay exist. As for people leaving EVE, if you don't like it, that's what id suggest you do, just please dont request the game be changed to suit your personal tastes as many of us love it just the way it is.

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