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K1K1R1K1
Team Machine Incorporated North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.02.06 00:53:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
If my Interceptor isn't supposed to lock down battleships, remove them from the game. I was unaware that the Size of a ship determines how powerful it is. Not 1 person here said anything about frigates destroying Battleships. Many of us are saying Heavy NoS completely shuts down frigates, rendering them completely unable to fullfill their in battle.
Ok, let me put this "heavy nos shuts down your frigate down" nonsense to an end.
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Rifter
150mm Light AutoCannon II [80xBarrage S] 150mm Light AutoCannon II [80xBarrage S] 150mm Light AutoCannon II [80xBarrage S] Upgraded 'Limos' Standard Missile Bay I [43xPiranha Light Missile]
Remote Sensor Dampener I Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost [3xCap Booster 100]
Overdrive Injector System I Overdrive Injector System I Inertia Stabilizers I
449 shield, 2.4/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/20/40/60 421 armor, E/T/K/Ex=70/35/25/10 287.5 cap, +4.7/s, -4.136/s 1018.425 m/s (this version of quickfit doesn't take into account the mass reduction so it probably goes between 1.1km to 1.2km/s) 57.3 DPS
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Do I need to show you how to fire the weapons as well now?
Took me 5 seconds to put that together, and vs 1 heavy knave nos this thing will last well over 2 minutes. VS 2 heavy knave nos (-220 every 10 seconds) it lasted a good 30 seconds, after which you have to manage the mods (ab went offline twice for a couple seconds within 60 sec). So if you're getting hit with more than 1 heavy, you're in a little trouble. Bring a few frig friends, and you'll have no issues.
Now to really put this argument to an end.
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Stiletto
150mm Light AutoCannon II [80xHail S] 150mm Light AutoCannon II [80xHail S] Upgraded 'Limos' Standard Missile Bay I [43xPiranha Light Missile]
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost [2xCap Booster 150] Small F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost [2xCap Booster 150] Warp Disruptor I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I Nanofiber Internal Structure I Inertia Stabilizers I
445 shield, 2.37/s, E/T/K/Ex=10/20/40/60 506 armor, E/T/K/Ex=80/35/25/10 287.5 cap, +3.88/s, -5.536/s 1289.0875 m/s (again, inertial stab not taken into account) 49.3 DPS
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Get a clue guys, heavy nos isn't the end of your lovely little frig. If you wanna argue that nos is an imbalanced weapon system accross the board go ahead (which i believe this thread originally started out as lol), it is in a way (with drone ships mainly). But don't tell me that 1 or 2 heavy nos completley criple my rifter tho... let alone a frig with 4 meds.
_______________________________________ Don't worry aboutit. |
Sun Win
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.02.06 01:48:00 -
[92]
Originally by: K1K1R1K1
Remote Sensor Dampener I Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost [3xCap Booster 100]
Hi, thanks for your genius setup. How do I prevent the other guy from warping away?
New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Drazin DawnTreader
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Posted - 2007.02.06 02:14:00 -
[93]
Grade "A" pal. You've managed to make a ship last 30 seconds against NoS... Kudos!
Now if only you could make that same ship last 10 seconds against 1 light drone.
I am really proud of you though... You managed to get 1 disruptor on the ship with the -only- interceptor ingame that has 4 mids. sadly it will never get close enough to turn said Disruptor on. But hey... you beat that heavy NoS real good man. I'm sure that will be noted on your epitaph.
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K1K1R1K1
Team Machine Incorporated North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.02.06 03:30:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Sun Win
Originally by: K1K1R1K1
Remote Sensor Dampener I Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small F-RX Prototype I Capacitor Boost [3xCap Booster 100]
Hi, thanks for your genius setup. How do I prevent the other guy from warping away?
That genius setup is meant to be used in a wolf pack... figure the rest out for yourself.
As for the only inty with 4 mids true, but who says that you have to have 4 mids to work against a bs? And there are plenty of af's and t1 frigs that have 4 mids. If you have 4 frigs attacking a bs guess what, you're going to get hit with 1 nos tops. If you're hit with more than one your buddies are free of the big bad nos monster.
_______________________________________ Don't worry aboutit. |
xHomicide
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Posted - 2007.02.06 03:53:00 -
[95]
Edited by: xHomicide on 06/02/2007 03:53:03
Nos should have two attributes which determine energy transfer.
> Max energy transfer amount - same thing it is now > Max percent transfer - the max % a single nos cycle can take from a target based on the targets capacitor capacity.
Heavy Nos Max energy transfer amount: 100 Max percent transfer: 4% Activation time: 12sec
Medium Nos Max energy transfer amount: 30 Max percent transfer: 6% Activation time: 6sec
Small Nos Max energy transfer amount: 8 Max percent transfer: 10% Activation time: 3sec
What this would mean:
Heavy nos vs frig: ~12/cycle = 1/sec Heavy nos vs cruiser: ~40/cycle = 3.3/sec Heavy nos vs battleship/capital: 100/cycle = 8.3/cycle (The max energy transfer would be the max limiter)
Med nos vs frig: ~18/cycle = 3/sec Med nos vs cruiser/battleship: 30/cycle = 5/sec (The max energy transfer would be the max limiter)
Small nos vs frig/cruiser/battleship(anything): 8/cycle = 2.7/sec
Larger Nos would obviously be less affective against ships with small capacitor, while smaller nos would be more affective.
note: People dont seem to understand how massive a nerf this would be to nano-bs. Nano-bs would be in a world of hurt if they could no longer nos off ceptors. This means a ceptor could affectively sustain its web and mwd on a nano-bs even if it put 4 heavy nos on it.
no need to thank me for fixing nos and nano-bs with one extremely easy solution.
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Vigilant
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.06 05:36:00 -
[96]
Train Typhoon / Dom .. Join the crowd
Last thing CCP nees is more nerfs
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Jack Icegaard
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Posted - 2007.02.06 06:31:00 -
[97]
The nerfbigands are out in force again..
Yeah, please nerf nos. Please make my frig a solopawnmobile that can attack, scramble and kill battleships with impunity. I cant wrap my head around any tactic that does not involve weapons that deal out damage. I also have 27 million sp in weapon tech and my dps pawzoorz. But people use alternative tactics against me. Whaaaa that's not fair! buhhuuu huu take away all alternative tactics!11
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Ort Lofthus
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Posted - 2007.02.06 09:06:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Ort Lofthus on 06/02/2007 09:03:42 NOS is currently overpowered. Its not cunning anymore, its a given on a lot of setups, and its as simple as hitting a button. I fly minmatar, and well, I see missile hardpoint and think NOS slot. Some indications that NOS is overpowered:
1) Utility high slots, meant for missile launchers, are almost always fitted with NOS. Its even to the point where some setups trade primary weapons for NOS/Neuts. Its ubiquious, which has far sweeping influence in gameplay.
2) NOS is a repeat offender in enabling semi-broken and broken setups, i.e. nanoships(WTF) and NOSdomi/myrmidion (excellent short range ships of their class, top tier, not necessarily broken)
3) WTFPWNS smaller ships with little to no effort (none of this garbage about battleships should win vs frigates. NOS is a almost an automatic win against even small frig gangs, and battleships still have drones to protect themselves)
4) NOS is a powerful offensive/defensive module, doing significant amounts of damage in the form of less enemy hitpoints and more of ones own hitpoints.
5) NOS has caused significant gameplay changes, making cap boosters a must-fit item to counter NOS setups. Amarr get screwed due to all this cap warfare, and to a lesser degree ENAM omni tanks become more attractive further hurting lasers.
6) It detracts from the fun of the game, which is a bad thing for EVE any way you slice it. Its one thing to be blown away in a gunfight or even at a gatecamp, at least its fast. Its a whole other kind of pain to be leached to death and slowly killed.
NOS effective DPS calcs on the battleship level: assuming that both ships can tank all incoming damage, have resists of 75% average, NOS used is tech II heavy for ease of calculations. Tech II armor tank.
Tech II armor reppers convert cap to HP at a rate of 1:2. The resists make it so 1 hp equals 4 effectve hp. Thus one cap is worth 8 effective HP. Heavy NOS II transfers 10 cap per second. Effective HP being drained through cap is 80 hp/sec. Now, this is transfered to the enemy ship, with the same tank. He now gets 80 hp/sec boost in tanking in the form of cap.
End result is 160 effective DPS. Now I realize that this effective DPS is probably worse than real DPS, but real DPS also doesn't kill the enemy's ability to do damage back.
I believe that NOS need to be fixed with a sig radius and a activation cost. 100% return is pretty powerful against similar sized foes, especially on drone boats. In addition, an activation cost would then be reduced by the requisite skills for NOS anyways. The idea of making NOS have a maxium amount of cap that they can drain is also a nice fix, but I'd like to see sig radius matter more. Not to say its a bad idea, it would work well in conjuction with sig radius and activation cost.
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xHomicide
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.06 09:39:00 -
[99]
Edited by: xHomicide on 06/02/2007 09:35:42
Originally by: Ort Lofthus Edited by: Ort Lofthus on 06/02/2007 09:03:42 The idea of making NOS have a maxium amount of cap that they can drain is also a nice fix, but I'd like to see sig radius matter more. Not to say its a bad idea, it would work well in conjuction with sig radius and activation cost.
My initial response was one related to sig as well, but other people have pointed out that if it was based on sig there would be complications as a result of MWD sig penalty. The sig increase as a result of MWDs is needed as a result of tracking calculations. If the nos affect was based strictly on sig and no form of tracking then it would dominate MWD ships even more than it does now. If it was based on capacitor capacity the mwd sig problem would be avoided.
On the other hand I disagree with your first few main points. I think the ability of nos to enable 'broken' setups as you have put it is a great gameplay element. Nos gives versatility that I hope they never take away. I also dont see any issues with cap warefare, it is another element of combat, which is a good thing. I dont see any problems with an inject being a requirement on a cap-dependent ships.
___________________________________________________ http://www.razor-eve.org/killboard/?a=kills |
xHomicide
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.06 09:45:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Jack Icegaard The nerfbigands are out in force again..
Yeah, please nerf nos. Please make my frig a solopawnmobile that can attack, scramble and kill battleships with impunity. I cant wrap my head around any tactic that does not involve weapons that deal out damage. I also have 27 million sp in weapon tech and my dps pawzoorz. But people use alternative tactics against me. Whaaaa that's not fair! buhhuuu huu take away all alternative tactics!11
Because everyone knows frigs are overpowered.. lol "omg a frig.... it takes me 40 seconds to nos him to uselessness instead of instantly!!!....oh wait.... its a frig."
___________________________________________________ http://www.razor-eve.org/killboard/?a=kills |
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Serapis
No Quarter. C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.02.06 13:31:00 -
[101]
xHomi: Frig Gangs (mixed T1 / T2) can really be a pain in the arse. Hard to catch, fast locking, fast moving and dealing painfull damage as a pack. I have seen more than one BS going down in flames. So in the end its again about brains :D
Why should a unwarily frig survive a BS? Why should a unwarily BS survive a bunch of figs?
Maybe the solution is to remove every item and ship from EvE and hand everyone a club. Then we all can go "clubbing" - lol - and we release rules that alternate tactics, like crouching,, evading, wearing armor are forbidden. And most important: Only chars with the same weight, height and strength are allowed to fight each other. Skillpoints are needed to obtain different shapes and colors of clubs.
Well boys and girls. I've lost tons of ships to "overpowered" enemies (they too smart, me too dumb, they to much, we too few, we got lag, they got not, they got I-WIN-button-ships, we got YOU-LOSE-BUTTON-ships, ...) But in the end I learned tactics vs. tactics vs. tactics and fought a lot of wins and had fun.
Ever seen a NOS ship shutting down a sniper? NO? Snipers are uber? Then get a CovOps buddy and let the NOS-BS jump the sniper. Problem with a NOS ship? Then get the snipers and a tackle CRUISER FFS, throw EM drones at him, ...
There is no problem with NOS, jsut with your tactics. And that what makes the differerence in most fights. And for those who state again: "I don't want to kill a BS in my Inty, I just want to tackle it all day and night all alone!" Then boys what do you intend with that? Tackle till he hits 'selfdestruct? Or your 20-jumps-behind-friends arrive?
So this is hopefully my last post on this stupid topic.
[color=yellow] /me votes for a) a usable drone control interface b) for applying drone skills to fighters as well (what do I have my 5 mill SP in drones for?) [/color] __________________________________________________ Serapis
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.02.06 13:37:00 -
[102]
light ecm drone on the taranis more than not in a small gang battle is the solution
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Jamius
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Posted - 2007.02.06 14:09:00 -
[103]
Awwwwwwwww man. Still going.
I'd give loads of reasons and spend half an hour writing them carefully if I could be bothered.
Instead I'll just add a large NO to nerfing NOS.
Please stop asking for this - accept and move on and all will be well in the (Eve) world.
OK I'll give 1 reason - change to NOS as has been discussed would be far too large a shift in the use of BS's and instantly give smaller ships a huge boost against them. It would seriously p!ss off too many people and create too large a sway away from the BS - especially solo use.
If anything must be done (which I personally think does not) then some kind of cap shielding module would be far better and let people whom this is actually an issue for, utilise such modules.
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Sun Win
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.02.06 14:22:00 -
[104]
Originally by: K1K1R1K1
That genius setup is meant to be used in a wolf pack... figure the rest out for yourself.
So your solution to "NOS can kill a frig's ability to warp scramble the BS" is "make a ship that can last against BS NOS and hope that he NOSes that ship and not the one with the scram"?
Awesome.
I'm not even on the pro-NERF NOS side of this debate!
New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.02.06 14:24:00 -
[105]
The problem is not in NOS it self. It is in how ppl design their setups.
At the moment most ppl either design their setup to be just barely sustainable, or that the cap fails after an x amount of time, but that should be enough.
When they get hit by nos the cap fails due to bad planning. By the skilled use of a small nos or cap injector this can be avoided (turn manual activation on instead of autorepeat, wait for the large nos to hit, inject cap before your modules run a cycle, cap empty, large nos hits, more cap in etc...)
The problem is in the attitudes of ppl, not the game mechanic in it self. Fix the attitude, it's a lot easier to fix... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.02.06 14:30:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader The only problem I have with NoS in its current state is that it 100% disables me from doing my job every time. No Interceptor can lock down a larger ship that uses a NoS. And We all know Interceptors dont exactly have the room to fit a Dampener in their tackle slots.
Last Battleship I tackled I was spot on. Got in range clean, Locked him down and started targetting his drones. Unfortunetly he was damn good and wiped out my party. Turned his Heavy NoS on me and I was empty in the blink of an eye. But instead of warping away safely, -He- scrambled -Me- then Webbed me and proceeded to pound my little Inty into dust. Amazingly he gave up and let me go instead of continuing.
The problem is, 1 round of his NoS with my Tackle gear active and my Inty all but turned off. I cant shoot, I can zoom, I can't web, I cant scramble, I cant armor repair... Nothing. Sure, NoS has its uses and is a great asset for many ships. Its just too powerful against ships smaller than itself.
The NoS proposal by Roue is very cool and I like it alot. Better than that though... Make Signature radius Determine NoS amount. Small sig Radius... Small nos transfer. Large sig radius... Large nos transfer.
You'd get 400 energy vs my Passive Drake. but only 25 vs my Inty.
are you saying that an inty should be able to tackle and attack a bs? i personally don't think it should. think about it. if nos didn't drain inties fast then small ceptor groups would be able to pwn just about any bs. the point is that a bs's only defence against a fast moving ceptor is nos. ceptors these days can go faster than small drones, faster than any tracking of turrets and faster than the explosion velocity of most missiles that bs fit so nos is the only defence. and if u have a group of ceptors which i think you have to have to take a bs then 1 or 2 heave nos can't stop you all.
DE
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.02.06 14:44:00 -
[107]
Originally by: DarkElf
are you saying that an inty should be able to tackle and attack a bs? i personally don't think it should. think about it. if nos didn't drain inties fast then small ceptor groups would be able to pwn just about any bs. the point is that a bs's only defence against a fast moving ceptor is nos. ceptors these days can go faster than small drones, faster than any tracking of turrets and faster than the explosion velocity of most missiles that bs fit so nos is the only defence. and if u have a group of ceptors which i think you have to have to take a bs then 1 or 2 heave nos can't stop you all.
Very true. The reason why fitting NOS is so commonplace these days is the fact that Ceptors are so redicilously OP against BS without them. If tackling range was < ECM burst range and SB range, then fine, alternatives would excist, but since they don't, they don't... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Harry Voyager
Obscurity LLC
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Posted - 2007.02.06 16:36:00 -
[108]
Just on the whole realism argument, modern fleets are composed of multiple ship types primarily because frigates and cruisers are so much cheaper to deploy than battleships are. Most missions don't call for anywhere near the kind of firepower a BB can bring to bear, but in a CC or DD vrs a BB, the BB will win almost every time, excluding the effects of missiles.
Missiles change the equation completely. A single flight of Harpoons or JASSMs will sink a battleship, period, full stop. Sure the frigate will be raining down in little tiny pieces before its missile impact, but a frigate of a Battleship is a more than fair trade. Throw aircraft and laser guided munitions into the mix, and that battleship becomes little more than a very large target, and not a terribly hardened one at that.
That's the whole point behind Carrier battlegroups; they can't allow a single launching platform within 150km of the Carrier, or they've likely lost the ship. That's the only reason for the modern mixed group: frigates can now 1-shot Battleships.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:43:00 -
[109]
Originally by: DarkElf
Are you saying that an inty should be able to tackle and attack a bs? i personally don't think it should. think about it. if nos didn't drain inties fast then small ceptor groups would be able to pwn just about any bs. the point is that a bs's only defence against a fast moving ceptor is nos. ceptors these days can go faster than small drones, faster than any tracking of turrets and faster than the explosion velocity of most missiles that bs fit so nos is the only defence. and if u have a group of ceptors which i think you have to have to take a bs then 1 or 2 heave nos can't stop you all.
DE
Battleships should have some massive weaknesses if they are going to be the ship class with the most firepower, largest tanks, and longest range (cap ships asside). Battleships should never be solopwnmobiles as Devs have stated many times however they are exactly that and the reason is large nos. I feel a small group of interceptors should be a large threat to a single battleship simply because it's a group of people using teamwork instead of a single person using a big ship. Battleships should almost exclusivly rely on smaller ships or dedicated anti frigate/ceptor platforms(destroyers) to provide them point defense. Untill we see such changes fleets containing large varieties of ship classes will never be common.
Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got" |
DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:52:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Battleships should have some massive weaknesses if they are going to be the ship class with the most firepower, largest tanks, and longest range (cap ships asside). Battleships should never be solopwnmobiles as Devs have stated many times however they are exactly that and the reason is large nos. I feel a small group of interceptors should be a large threat to a single battleship simply because it's a group of people using teamwork instead of a single person using a big ship. Battleships should almost exclusivly rely on smaller ships or dedicated anti frigate/ceptor platforms(destroyers) to provide them point defense. Untill we see such changes fleets containing large varieties of ship classes will never be common.
Very true. couldn't agree more. but tbh a small group of ceptors, say 3 for example are a significant threat to a bs right now even if it does have nos. especially if they are missile/minmatar ceptors.
DE
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xHomicide
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.06 19:54:00 -
[111]
Originally by: DarkElf
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Battleships should have some massive weaknesses if they are going to be the ship class with the most firepower, largest tanks, and longest range (cap ships asside). Battleships should never be solopwnmobiles as Devs have stated many times however they are exactly that and the reason is large nos. I feel a small group of interceptors should be a large threat to a single battleship simply because it's a group of people using teamwork instead of a single person using a big ship. Battleships should almost exclusivly rely on smaller ships or dedicated anti frigate/ceptor platforms(destroyers) to provide them point defense. Untill we see such changes fleets containing large varieties of ship classes will never be common.
Very true. couldn't agree more. but tbh a small group of ceptors, say 3 for example are a significant threat to a bs right now even if it does have nos. especially if they are missile/minmatar ceptors.
DE
like it should be....question mark?
___________________________________________________ http://www.razor-eve.org/killboard/?a=kills |
Drazin DawnTreader
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Posted - 2007.02.06 21:50:00 -
[112]
Originally by: DarkElf
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader The only problem I have with NoS in its current state is that it 100% disables me from doing my job every time. No Interceptor can lock down a larger ship that uses a NoS. And We all know Interceptors dont exactly have the room to fit a Dampener in their tackle slots.
Last Battleship I tackled I was spot on. Got in range clean, Locked him down and started targetting his drones. Unfortunetly he was damn good and wiped out my party. Turned his Heavy NoS on me and I was empty in the blink of an eye. But instead of warping away safely, -He- scrambled -Me- then Webbed me and proceeded to pound my little Inty into dust. Amazingly he gave up and let me go instead of continuing.
The problem is, 1 round of his NoS with my Tackle gear active and my Inty all but turned off. I cant shoot, I can zoom, I can't web, I cant scramble, I cant armor repair... Nothing. Sure, NoS has its uses and is a great asset for many ships. Its just too powerful against ships smaller than itself.
The NoS proposal by Roue is very cool and I like it alot. Better than that though... Make Signature radius Determine NoS amount. Small sig Radius... Small nos transfer. Large sig radius... Large nos transfer.
You'd get 400 energy vs my Passive Drake. but only 25 vs my Inty.
are you saying that an inty should be able to tackle and attack a bs? i personally don't think it should. think about it. if nos didn't drain inties fast then small ceptor groups would be able to pwn just about any bs. the point is that a bs's only defence against a fast moving ceptor is nos. ceptors these days can go faster than small drones, faster than any tracking of turrets and faster than the explosion velocity of most missiles that bs fit so nos is the only defence. and if u have a group of ceptors which i think you have to have to take a bs then 1 or 2 heave nos can't stop you all.
DE
Even with just an Afterburner running I am nearly too fast for my own turrets to land hits. The only reason I equip turrets on my Interceptor is to help protect me from drones. To be fast enough to really reduce missile and drone damage means you yourself will not be landing any hits whatsoever. Which means what? It means I need a Team to take down the target while I lock it down. Pretty much precisely what Interceptors are supposed to do. Sure, there are some DPS Inties that don't tackle or do a very poor job of it that can harrass a Battleship. But even 2 frigates aren't -usually- enough to beat the tank of a Battleship. And Frigate wolfpacks -should- be able to drop some Battleships. Hell... an X-wing took out the Deathstar - LOL -
Regardless, a Webber + drones = Dead frigates. Battleships are far from vulnerable. And as others have said, its a -group- of Frigates vs a -solo- battleship. There are ship classes built specifically for protecting Battleships, find a buddy.
Also, we aren't asking for Frigates to be Immune to NoS. And we aren't asking for NoS to be nerfed vs large ships. But surely you can see that it is simply too fast and too easy to drain a frigate dry. And with very very limited slots to play with, building Anti-NoS frigate setups aren't really an option. Especially when the best you can do is last another 30 seconds tops.
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Laboratus
Gallente BGG
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Posted - 2007.02.06 23:41:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
Even with just an Afterburner running I am nearly too fast for my own turrets to land hits. The only reason I equip turrets on my Interceptor is to help protect me from drones. To be fast enough to really reduce missile and drone damage means you yourself will not be landing any hits whatsoever. Which means what? It means I need a Team to take down the target while I lock it down. Pretty much precisely what Interceptors are supposed to do. Sure, there are some DPS Inties that don't tackle or do a very poor job of it that can harrass a Battleship. But even 2 frigates aren't -usually- enough to beat the tank of a Battleship. And Frigate wolfpacks -should- be able to drop some Battleships. Hell... an X-wing took out the Deathstar - LOL -
Regardless, a Webber + drones = Dead frigates. Battleships are far from vulnerable. And as others have said, its a -group- of Frigates vs a -solo- battleship. There are ship classes built specifically for protecting Battleships, find a buddy.
Also, we aren't asking for Frigates to be Immune to NoS. And we aren't asking for NoS to be nerfed vs large ships. But surely you can see that it is simply too fast and too easy to drain a frigate dry. And with very very limited slots to play with, building Anti-NoS frigate setups aren't really an option. Especially when the best you can do is last another 30 seconds tops.
Yes. If the BS is specially fitted for anti frig work, in may just come ahead without nos. But, versus a non-pvp setup, say mission or ratting setup a Ceptor, taranis for example, can rip a BS to bits. And this is a wee bit messed up. A frig, killing a BS. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Cygwin Gaad
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 02:00:00 -
[114]
could just introduce a mid or low slot mod "Capacitor Buffer".
buffers the ships capacitor from energy vampires. from 20% T1, to 40% T2, with up to 35% for named.
40 Cpu 10 power.
so you can still get wtfpwnd by a nanos ship, but like WCS, if you are prepared you can get away.
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K1K1R1K1
Team Machine Incorporated North Star Confederation
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Posted - 2007.02.07 02:34:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Sun Win
Originally by: K1K1R1K1
That genius setup is meant to be used in a wolf pack... figure the rest out for yourself.
So your solution to "NOS can kill a frig's ability to warp scramble the BS" is "make a ship that can last against BS NOS and hope that he NOSes that ship and not the one with the scram"?
Awesome.
I'm not even on the pro-NERF NOS side of this debate!
Yea, thats exactly my solution...
Think it thru a little more, I'm not going to bother explaining basic pvp tactics and setups.
_______________________________________ Don't worry aboutit. |
Nyxus
GALAXIAN Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.07 05:15:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Cygwin Gaad could just introduce a mid or low slot mod "Capacitor Buffer".
buffers the ships capacitor from energy vampires. from 20% T1, to 40% T2, with up to 35% for named.
40 Cpu 10 power.
so you can still get wtfpwnd by a nanos ship, but like WCS, if you are prepared you can get away.
But what about the Curse, Bhaalgorn, and Pilgrim?? A set % would make them useless?
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
xHomicide
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 05:37:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Nyxus
Originally by: Cygwin Gaad could just introduce a mid or low slot mod "Capacitor Buffer".
buffers the ships capacitor from energy vampires. from 20% T1, to 40% T2, with up to 35% for named.
40 Cpu 10 power.
so you can still get wtfpwnd by a nanos ship, but like WCS, if you are prepared you can get away.
But what about the Curse, Bhaalgorn, and Pilgrim?? A set % would make them useless?
Nyxus
Not if it was done as explained in this post. Medium would work the exact same against cruisers and would drain approximately 24 cap a cycle instead of the full 30...a marginal difference. The biggest hit would be heavy nos vs frigs.
Kind of like small, medium, and large guns.
___________________________________________________ http://www.razor-eve.org/killboard/?a=kills |
Cygwin Gaad
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 05:53:00 -
[118]
its a suggestion, an evolving idea. how can we make it work so the stated ships dont get nerfed? frig/cruiser/bs sized buffers?
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.02.07 09:03:00 -
[119]
All the comments like look at real world are useless. In real world one would build the BS with point defence turrents on top of the large ones. (8 Large 8 small guns) In real world One would fit freighter with 10 strip minming lasers + refinery. In real world lasers would have infinite range .. etc etc. etc.
Nos is fine. Dont take all the fun setups away. after all next thing ppl start whining after nos fix is sensor damps. Then they star whining about drones.
I mean freedom has been the strong point of this game for a long time beeing able to use creativity against your targets. if you take all that away what is left. 5 BIG guns vs 6 . 6 wins.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.07 11:49:00 -
[120]
Originally by: xHomicide Not if it was done as explained in this post. Medium would work the exact same against cruisers and would drain approximately 24 cap a cycle instead of the full 30...a marginal difference. The biggest hit would be heavy nos vs frigs.
Kind of like small, medium, and large guns.
Exept curse and pilgrim have a nos strength bonus. 24 cap a cycle instead 72 cap a cycle is a bit more than "marginal".
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