Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Discorporation
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 17:37:00 -
[1]
Yes, the time has indeed come to convert them.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 17:37:00 -
[2]
| 14:17:45 | Hellmar > I had a private chat with some original T1 blueprint holders about excatly this issue
| 14:18:56 | Hellmar > The current dynamics with the bpc is making it impossible for original holders to compete with the copies
| 14:19:18 | Hellmar > or other original holders that are only selling copies
| 14:20:08 | Hellmar > what we agreed to at this private chat was to change the copy process so that you would not get a perfect copy, i.e. me10->me5-7
| 14:21:07 | Hellmar > I realise the stirr that I am causing by saying this, but after going throught the rounds with these particular bp holders they agreed that this would be the best version. I will write down the reasoning once Castor is out
| 14:22:14 | Hellmar > At the same time we will turn the infinite bpc over to maxed limited run copies. We allowed a certain grace period to pass when we introduced the limited copy concept, as some players had just invested in them
| 14:22:23 | Hellmar > but the time has come to covert them
|
Lord Azraiel
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 17:51:00 -
[3]
Abolish copies all together! They ruin the market. And if you want a risk free way to make a lot of money, that is it right there. Sit in a station and make copies all the time selling them for 10mill a pop. "I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
Morkt Drakt
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 17:53:00 -
[4]
aye - perfectly happy to see copies go altogether.
|
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 17:56:00 -
[5]
I always suspected that those IKEA battleships werenŠt good for the market __________ Capacitor research |
nono
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 17:59:00 -
[6]
While changing unlimited BPC's is a good thing ( I have many made but never sold ) it will do nothing to change the current situation of BPC sales. It's not a big deal when a me 10 becomes an me 5-7 people will simply research thier prints beyond what it is worth doing and copy/sell them anyway.
You really think there is any point having a BP researched 300 times when the last 200 times saved you 10 Tritium?(exageration made for the point but not far off is it.)
The debacle was created when the "intelligent" two copy limit was lifted long ago but it's so far gone now there's no point in arguing it.
You want to stop the copy market, stop the copying. Put the limit back in and let the copies die off. You have just given notice to everyone to hit the copier for the next 5 days.
And Private chat? How many of these sway the way the game has played out? Discussing it here might have been a better option, or in patch review, to get a concensous don't you think? How about you guys decide on the upcoming changes to everything in private chats.
|
Mirus Crosius
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 18:01:00 -
[7]
Quote: I always suspected that those IKEA battleships werenŠt good for the market
ROFL.
|
nails
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 18:08:00 -
[8]
The only conern I have over eliminating or nerfing blueprint copies mineral wise are for corp use purposes. I could care less if blueprints were nerfed to that people would stop selling them. Before something like this happens I want CCP to make dead sure that the research/factory print exploit is 100% fixed. It will mean that origional prints will need to be kept in query only hangers from now on, so if any cute little exploit bug shows up, it's not the copies I have to worry about getting swiped it's the origionals. I know things seem to be currently fixed, but there is a risk that the bug might show up in a later patch for whatever reason.. As long as CCP assures everone that the print research exploit has been locked down for good then I will be satisfied :)
That's my 10 cents. ------------------
http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
|
Johnathan Roark
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 18:29:00 -
[9]
Quote: Abolish copies all together! They ruin the market. And if you want a risk free way to make a lot of money, that is it right there. Sit in a station and make copies all the time selling them for 10mill a pop.
I dont see how Battleship Blueprint copies are risk free? The risk is the time it takes to make isk back for investment. Right now, a BS bpc takes about 16 hours to make one copy. At 10mil each it will take close to three months to brake even. I think we will see alot of the copies coming off the market after unlimiteds become limited. The reason most corps started making copies is because ship building market was too crowded and unprofitable.
No Risk? Id say slightly less risk, but still risky. ------------------------------------- Quantum Industries
|
nono
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 18:47:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Quote: Abolish copies all together! They ruin the market. And if you want a risk free way to make a lot of money, that is it right there. Sit in a station and make copies all the time selling them for 10mill a pop.
I dont see how Battleship Blueprint copies are risk free? The risk is the time it takes to make isk back for investment. Right now, a BS bpc takes about 16 hours to make one copy. At 10mil each it will take close to three months to brake even. I think we will see alot of the copies coming off the market after unlimiteds become limited. The reason most corps started making copies is because ship building market was too crowded and unprofitable.
No Risk? Id say slightly less risk, but still risky.
And you will still see copy sales (same as now). 1 run BP copies of BS's. The people that bought unlimited copies could never make copies anyway, they will just be in the market to save for an original or buy a copy now that thier maximum run ,limited copy will run out.
|
|
Deloup Drakar
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 20:21:00 -
[11]
Quote: The reason most corps started making copies is because ship building market was too crowded and unprofitable.
That and the cost per copy to the corp was alot lower than building the ship itself and selling and anybody and thier monkey cold build the ship. Once tech 2 hits shelves Monday, alot of research/manufacturing alts will die off and more and more people will have to look towards the people devoting their skills to manufacturing/research.
|
Baldour Ngarr
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 20:28:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Quote: Abolish copies all together! They ruin the market. And if you want a risk free way to make a lot of money, that is it right there. Sit in a station and make copies all the time selling them for 10mill a pop.
I dont see how Battleship Blueprint copies are risk free? The risk is the time it takes to make isk back for investment.
Time isn't risk.
_______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Old Hermit
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 20:43:00 -
[13]
Quote: Time isn't risk.
I'm not a financial wizard, or even close to it, however I am pretty darned sure that your statement is exceedingly wrong.
If I tied up 1B on an original BS BP I will have to live without that 1B until I recover it, -if- I can recover it. As with anything, the likelihood that I will recover 1B, from the bp alone, is slim. The time and effort will be significant, comparable to the amount spent, and competition will ever be eating into what sales I can make. To imply that market, whatever market, competition is not risk is niave at best.
I do not own a BS bp. I do not sell copies, nor have I ever. But I do not discredit a service industry jsut becuase I feel that they don't work as much as I do.
Or that I preceive their risks, or investments, as less then mine.
Click To Submit News |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 21:04:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Quote: Time isn't risk.
I'm not a financial wizard, or even close to it, however I am pretty darned sure that your statement is exceedingly wrong.
If I tied up 1B on an original BS BP I will have to live without that 1B until I recover it, -if- I can recover it. As with anything, the likelihood that I will recover 1B, from the bp alone, is slim. The time and effort will be significant, comparable to the amount spent, and competition will ever be eating into what sales I can make. To imply that market, whatever market, competition is not risk is niave at best.
I do not own a BS bp. I do not sell copies, nor have I ever. But I do not discredit a service industry jsut becuase I feel that they don't work as much as I do.
Or that I preceive their risks, or investments, as less then mine.
It's easier to sell 100 blueprint copies at 10m apiece than to manufacture 100 battleships to sell for 10m profit.
You do not have to gather any materials to make the copy.
You do not have to risk less profit by changes in the mineral prices.
You do not even have to pay attention to the process as you can put the bp in a lab and set it for 1000 1 run copies.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Zagum Darkfin
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 21:07:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: Abolish copies all together! They ruin the market. And if you want a risk free way to make a lot of money, that is it right there. Sit in a station and make copies all the time selling them for 10mill a pop.
I dont see how Battleship Blueprint copies are risk free? The risk is the time it takes to make isk back for investment.
Time isn't risk.
I am sorry that everyone is freaking clueless of how much risk and effort went into PURCHASING AN ORIGANL Battleship Blueprint. You are investing 1 BILLION ISK, (1,000,000,000) in the hopes of:
A: Selling enough Ships minus the mineral costs to make back your investment or B: Selling enoough BPCs to make back your investment.
NO ONE MAKES A PROFIT UNTIL YOU HAVE PAYED OFF YOUR ORIGINAL INVESTMENT!! Selling a Tier 2 BPC at 10mil a pop will take you 65 DAYS of NON-STOP copying and selling to BREAK EVEN.
Time is a big factor when you do not have access to your ISK unless you bust your arse to sell copies or make ships. Its a BIG TIME INVESTMENT and BIG RISK. The fact that you invested 1-2months time JUST to get a point to EVEN purchase an original is a feat in itself.
Owning an Original BP worth 1 Billion ISK is never Risk free and you are not guaranteed on making it back or making a profit.
I would have liked to have been a part of CCPs discussion about BB Bpcs. A first it appeared they did not have a clue as to how long it takes to make a profit.
I like the fact that the unlimited bpcs will go away. Makes the original holder's bps worth something again. Maybe ppl will start making/selling more ships instead of purchasing bpcs. I am all for making ships.
Now if they increase the supply of Megacyte producing ores, the market will explode and the demand for ships will increase. This will be good and there will be more profit in making ships.
I dont understand why a copy should be less then its original. Once you get past ME10, you are only saving 100k isk tops.
Doing away with BPCs is over kill. I would recommend making it take a week to make 1 run copy. You need copies for flexiability and security. Maybe take 2 weeks to make a 10 Run copy. Making copies so cheaply and quickly increases the supply of Battleships like you have now, everyone is driving one. If players had to pay 125-150 mil verses mining it themselves and only paying 10mil, you would see less Battleships.
|
Ooke
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 21:18:00 -
[16]
how many runs are in a copy of battleship blueprints? From what I am reading it's 1? If that is so, the way they are is not a problem.
I've only seen the lower ones (as that's all I can afford and most of that is ammo), and 300-1500 runs is excessive, even if you leave bpc's shouldn't the amount that you can get from them be a lot less?
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 21:31:00 -
[17]
Quote: how many runs are in a copy of battleship blueprints? From what I am reading it's 1? If that is so, the way they are is not a problem.
I've only seen the lower ones (as that's all I can afford and most of that is ammo), and 300-1500 runs is excessive, even if you leave bpc's shouldn't the amount that you can get from them be a lot less?
Max batch for a battleship copy is 10 runs.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Zagum Darkfin
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 21:36:00 -
[18]
Quote: how many runs are in a copy of battleship blueprints? From what I am reading it's 1? If that is so, the way they are is not a problem.
I've only seen the lower ones (as that's all I can afford and most of that is ammo), and 300-1500 runs is excessive, even if you leave bpc's shouldn't the amount that you can get from them be a lot less?
It takes 15-16 hours per copy or per run to make a 1 run single Battleship copy.
|
Civil Deity
|
Posted - 2003.12.10 21:38:00 -
[19]
DEVS READ THIS:
i think its fine that you are converting limited copies to max run however remember that you gave miner 2 copies away at events. We lost ships and blood over these things please turn them to originals or leave them as infinite copies. Civil Deity
Wanna kill pirates? Join EV! Join SA! check us out: www.everlastingvendetta.com
|
nono
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 05:19:00 -
[20]
Quote: DEVS READ THIS:
i think its fine that you are converting limited copies to max run however remember that you gave miner 2 copies away at events. We lost ships and blood over these things please turn them to originals or leave them as infinite copies.
Who said they are converting limited copies? They are converting unlimited, infinate copies into max run copies.
I would think someone who has a limited copy and has used up some of its potential will not be rewarded with a brand new max run BP.
|
|
Znaei
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 05:32:00 -
[21]
Its kinda funny to see all the ppl, trying to sell their unlimited copies now
clagnuts> im drunk just come back from pirates night in spain , wtf i thought it was some eve guys getting together for a drink , turned out to be a feken real pirates show , doh |
JPFAmarr
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 07:16:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote: Time isn't risk.
I'm not a financial wizard, or even close to it, however I am pretty darned sure that your statement is exceedingly wrong.
If I tied up 1B on an original BS BP I will have to live without that 1B until I recover it, -if- I can recover it. As with anything, the likelihood that I will recover 1B, from the bp alone, is slim. The time and effort will be significant, comparable to the amount spent, and competition will ever be eating into what sales I can make. To imply that market, whatever market, competition is not risk is niave at best.
I do not own a BS bp. I do not sell copies, nor have I ever. But I do not discredit a service industry jsut becuase I feel that they don't work as much as I do.
Or that I preceive their risks, or investments, as less then mine.
It's easier to sell 100 blueprint copies at 10m apiece than to manufacture 100 battleships to sell for 10m profit.
You do not have to gather any materials to make the copy.
You do not have to risk less profit by changes in the mineral prices.
You do not even have to pay attention to the process as you can put the bp in a lab and set it for 1000 1 run copies.
But you do need an up-front investment of 600+ million ISK before you can make a dime.
Generic Corporation |
Kalar Vrask
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 07:20:00 -
[23]
Nothing to say but \o/.
Oh, and Kudos to CCP for the grace period. My old corp bought an unlimited Apoc copy as a partnership deal at just before the licensing patch came in. We did get shot of it pretty damn quick afterwards, mind you
This has been on the cards for a long time.
Question is now though, is licensing really any better?
quote :-
'WTS 1 run Apoc BPL, ME3 3m ISK' Trade channel last night. too many out there already, methinks.
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 12:54:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Quote:
It's easier to sell 100 blueprint copies at 10m apiece than to manufacture 100 battleships to sell for 10m profit.
You do not have to gather any materials to make the copy.
You do not have to risk less profit by changes in the mineral prices.
You do not even have to pay attention to the process as you can put the bp in a lab and set it for 1000 1 run copies.
But you do need an up-front investment of 600+ million ISK before you can make a dime.
And at current mineral prices, you need an investment of 700+ million isk (not aware of any battleship prints under 700m) + an 57m-83m before you can make a single battleship to sell.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Babar
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 13:28:00 -
[25]
Quote: It's easier to sell 100 blueprint copies at 10m apiece than to manufacture 100 battleships to sell for 10m profit.
Really?
I'd expect the margin to be a lot higher on finished ships than bpcs.
But this is a game, so I guess people are willing to take a small loss, or invest training time in ship building, just for the sake of making their own ships.
|
Noggy
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 14:57:00 -
[26]
How do you reckon this is going to affect smaller corps? I mean we cant really afford to buy those 80 million BP so we have survived all this time on bpc's. My hangar is full of copies, limited and unlimited. Does that mean that the assets of my corp has just been turned to nothing whilst those fat rich monkeys with the originals get richer?
Noggy
|
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 15:23:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote: It's easier to sell 100 blueprint copies at 10m apiece than to manufacture 100 battleships to sell for 10m profit.
Really?
I'd expect the margin to be a lot higher on finished ships than bpcs.
But this is a game, so I guess people are willing to take a small loss, or invest training time in ship building, just for the sake of making their own ships.
The margin is higher, for the most part excluding the better bpc sellers (those who still get top dollar for theirs). But not significantly so as manufactured items are in direct competition with the bpcs themselves (production efficiency 5 manufacturers aren't that rare). You also have to remember those wacky buyers too.
People view paying 10m for a Scorpion bpc + aquiring the minerals themselves cheaper than paying 67m for a finished Scorpion from the market.
Newsflash: No matter how you aquire the minerals, you will have ended up investing at least 67m in manufacturing that Scorpion yourself. I can aquire the minerals to make a Scorpion, shaving isk in several places, for around 57m. If you can replicate my mineral aquisition methods: 57m + 10m for the bpc = 67m.
But people don't see things that way. And pricing a Scorpion at 67m is close to pricing yourself out of the market.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jash Illian
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 15:30:00 -
[28]
Quote: How do you reckon this is going to affect smaller corps? I mean we cant really afford to buy those 80 million BP so we have survived all this time on bpc's. My hangar is full of copies, limited and unlimited. Does that mean that the assets of my corp has just been turned to nothing whilst those fat rich monkeys with the originals get richer?
Noggy
Your unlimited copies will become max batch copies. So if you have an unlimited bship print, it'll become a 10 batch copy. An unlimited missile print will become a 1500 batch copy. It's not clear if the existing bpc will drop down to ME5 (if above ME5) or remain untouched however.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Old Hermit
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 16:03:00 -
[29]
Quote: It's easier to sell 100 blueprint copies at 10m apiece than to manufacture 100 battleships to sell for 10m profit.
Are you just contrary by nature... or are you trying to raise people's awareness of who you are?
Becuase you seem to be as many places as possible. And you either pick fights or post as if you know what you are talking about.
And both are trolling techniques.
From now on whenever I see a post from you I will close the thread and read no further as the thread is dead.
Click To Submit News |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.12.11 16:22:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Quote: It's easier to sell 100 blueprint copies at 10m apiece than to manufacture 100 battleships to sell for 10m profit.
Are you just contrary by nature... or are you trying to raise people's awareness of who you are?
Becuase you seem to be as many places as possible. And you either pick fights or post as if you know what you are talking about.
And both are trolling techniques.
From now on whenever I see a post from you I will close the thread and read no further as the thread is dead.
At least he was on-topic...
Anyway, back to the topic.
If it weren't for the proliferation of BPC's, the prices wouldn't have come crashing down in the first place. They would have come down, yes, but not to the point where you can only make 2-3Mill off actually manufacturing a BS.
Manufacturers need a decent reason to make ships out of their minerals, and to be honest, 2 or 3 million just wouldn't cut it for me. .
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |