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Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.04 17:40:00 -
[61]
I find this whole argument rather amusing.
If a carebear complains about something or offers a suggestion to change something they deem unfair, they will get numerous responses, deal with it or go play WoW.
But it seems those who make that kind of comment aren't so good at dealing with things that they see as being unfair to them.
LOL!
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Soporo
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Posted - 2007.02.04 18:25:00 -
[62]
Hell, just make a chain of systems that are n00b accessable only.
The converse is, if you stay in a n00b Corp then you can never leave those systems.
It would stop the worst most assinine griefing from older tools, and it would impact the horrible, prevalent, metagaming n00b alt/spy/suicide/hauler syndrome which everyone seems to enjoy so damn much.
It would be great, then we could come on the forums and say thigns like
"go back to the n00b sytem you ,tard!"
"why did you leave the scrub system, you n00b?!"  |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.02.04 18:29:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Someone want to tell me why people are whining about NPC corps now? EVE's PVP community is getting more and more like Jahova Witnesses, no matter where I go, they are trying to force me into something I have no real interest in at the moment.
PVP is fun? Thats super.
Player Corps better than NPC Corps? If you say so.
No one want to play with you and you're sad? Well, call me crazy, but when you treat people like ****, no one wants to come out to play.
Long story short, take your big brother elsewhere, you don't see me demanding that player corps pay office dues when using empire-based stations. Or that they be banned from empire completely for being, for a lack of better words, a militia. 
We do pay for our offices in empire, and all npc stations for that matter. And militia or not, lets compare the mighty npc corps to any decent pvp player corp, i dont think your mighty high sec navy will stack up so well in battle.
I dont really care if people stay in the noob corp, it doesnt bother me, maybe gate guns shouldnt defend them in low sec or something though...this would hurt noobs i guess...(FIX noob scout alts for the lose.)
I lol'ed at this, everyone knows that 1000 frigates will always win vs. an player fleet. Hell, they could pack civilian weapons and still chew you to bits. Only problem is getting 1000 people to attack the same targets, and get the noobs outfront to get popped first.
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Alaric Rurk
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Posted - 2007.02.04 20:15:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Moraguth
Edited by: Moraguth on 04/02/2007 11:22:18
This part about taxes not being fair to n00bs? wtf are you talking about?
I'd say it's the part where the taxes you pay to your K3WLd00dz corporation actually can have something to do with the good of the corporation and its members (e.g. ships to loan out, free ammunitions, replacing lost ships) where as taxes on a NPC corp would just be a sinkhole for ISK.
What I don't understand is why this difference is so hard to figure out for some people. |
nutbar
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.04 21:12:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Alaric Rurk
What I don't understand is why this difference is so hard to figure out for some people.
Because some guy gets his new uber leetz computer *just* for eve and joins up his uber c00lz player corp and thinks "Wow, I can't believe how much cooler I am than everyone else because my corp ticker is BALLZ! All those l0zer n00bz really suck teh g0at!", and then decides to post about his little rant as to why he's better than everyone else and that his mommy even cuts the crust off his sandwiches which makes him a hacker.
... and that's my rant on a lot of the youth these days who couldn't figure out basic trig if it meant passing highschool (which it does, and which they don't I assume).
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2007.02.04 21:27:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
Seems fairly simple to me. People keep saying they would like to see more people out of the noob corps and into the rest of eve.
Why do noob corps pay 0% tax?
Seems such a gigantic corp would need to be charging a bit of tax if you ask me. Personally I dont know of many player corps in the game that operate on 0% tax.
For the benifit of complete anti war protection seems a tax of 30% would be fair if you ask me.
For a long time I did stay in a NPC corp. But I did not do it for the low tax. I did it because I wanted to be anti-social while playing eve. I simply could not be bothered with other players. I wanted to be left alone. And for a time still, I will be left alone.
You want to make people leave the NPC corp, do it through carrots. The whip you can leave at home.
Originally by: Eldo Davip
PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT.
WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
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Ruri
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Posted - 2007.02.04 22:10:00 -
[67]
I always like reading these types of posts, they always stir up conversation, a lot of flames too.
Its interesting reading though and seeing who is against free speech or independent though, itÆs kinda like they have this whole ôI may not own this game, but you still have to play this game the way I say you have to.ö
Its almost like Simon says, ôI say you have to PVP, because CCP made this game all about PVP with no other options.ö Personally I donÆt actually agree with this, I donÆt see any module that has as a benefit ôgain X% bonuses against OTHER PCsö so anybody who says that this game is all about PVP is expressive an option. That gets back to the above statement ôI say this game is all about PVP so it must be all about PVPö
I don't agree with making n00bs pay tax, they have a hard enough time getting the cash together to buy skill books, ships and module as it is with out then docking them money
Any way thatÆs pretty much all I had to say other then, IÆm pretty sure there have been a few world wars fought over that whole ôyou have to do what I sayö mentality so maybe some people should stop trying to make everybody do what they want.
Just a thought.
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RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.02.04 22:25:00 -
[68]
I am still in a newbie corp, but if I got saddled with npc tax I would simply form my own one man corp. And add a jump clone to a secondary agent location. Let the player corps work out the finances of trying to wardec one man corps that don't want to fight and can hide... You will see that this still isn't the way to get rabbits to your trap.
Want more people to PVP? Then fix the things that really stop people from pvp'ing. Get rid of the T2 lottery which inflates prices to the point that configs are sold at 300% over cost and fix insurance so you can actually fly something competitive and afford to lose it. Base value insurance on t2 ships is one of the main reasons new players choose not to go down PVP roads. Fix gate camps on choke systems so people actually have a fighting chance of travelling. Fix low sec local, if I'm in low sec I don't want to tell every gank monkey in the region I'm there, why should the game make me?
Gang based PVP has had the odds so heavily in its favour that it has run lowsec dry of targets. That's the truth of EVE PVP. It's a gang bang. Wan't PVP? Stop trying to bait lower skillpoint characters into lowsec, you cynical podders, organise yourself, explore you're territories, expand, and go into fleet battles. War dec your neighbours. Try to take down BoB. Do something which actually takes some balls, instead of defending your little robber baron paradises.
Or just shut up.
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr
PanTarkan Kador Holdings
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Posted - 2007.02.04 22:54:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Andrue
We are always accepting applications.
Big deal.
EVE allows anyone to apply anywhere, whether or not the corp wants to accept applications.
Doesn't mean you'll allow anyone in sight unseen.
Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected]) |
MataSanos
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Posted - 2007.02.05 14:42:00 -
[70]
NPC corp have no tax soll all money for me 
to join in player corp u have to give me more, free ships, money, implants, ISK
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Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:20:00 -
[71]
Originally by: scabbsssjr
Originally by: MataSanos
ok Allen Deckard how much u pay me to join in your corp 
In soviet russia you pay corp.
Soviet Russia is no more....THEY LOST
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:28:00 -
[72]
Simple solution....
Make Noob Corp tax directly related to your SP total.
Every 2 Mil it goes up 5%.
For the first 2 mil SP there is no tax....allows the noobs to train up enough to get out there and into the game.
Players with 10mil SP would be paying 25% tax.
Players with 20mil SP would be paying 50% tax.
etc etc.
This would ensure that, while being fair the starting player, that older players will be progressivly driven to look for player corps and alliances.
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Weebear
The Bowrey
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:41:00 -
[73]
Originally by: MataSanos
NPC corp have no tax soll all money for me
to join in player corp u have to give me more, free ships, money, implants, ISK
That's not even an argument. Creating your own corp takes at most an hour to train, and if you really want to you can start a corp with an alt that has the skill already trained. You can then have 0% tax for as long as you want, and those who want to play alone can be even more alone than they were in their noob corp.
The only reason to stay in a noob corp is to avoid risk and certain aspects of gameplay. |
Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:54:00 -
[74]
Simpler solution........
Leave things alone, things are fine just as they are.
This is a sandbox game where people are supposed to be able to play as they wish. If staying in a newbie corp is the wish of some players I fail to see why it is up to the rest of us to force them out.
To borrow a quote from some of the more vocal EVE players, if you can't handle the game, go play WoW or something. LOL!
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Matevainat
terra firma team
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Posted - 2007.02.05 15:55:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Matevainat on 05/02/2007 15:54:35
One thing i have noticed is that most of the guys who whine about n00b corps and being incapable of shooting anyone they wish to forget that they are the minority in eve (albeit a vocal one) and that carebears are the most prominent group in eve
It is also wothwhile pointing out that the people who whine loudest are not pirates, they are "gankbears" who think that they should kill anything that comes their way with a 10 man gang and a bubble and rack up 50 killmails an hour to ramp up their epeen. Most pirates who are actually serious about it do it for the thrill of decent combat and, in some are cases, profit (the principle of combat for profit is one of the foundations of BURN EDEN's ethos for instance).
at the end of the day, carebears are the majority in eve and what you propose would simply make them leave (in fairness it is not likely to be that extreme, but it will still **** off alot of people)and CCP are not likely to let that happen, they are a business after all 
[edit: spelling & grammar]
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Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:00:00 -
[76]
Quote:
Leave things alone, things are fine just as they are.
The game is always being upgraded....every game is always being upgraded...
Has been since it was in development and beta....and will be until it gets shut down. Any game that never changes/upgrades any of its features will die a quick death.
I consider myself somewhat of a carebear and I even thought this is a bad suggestion.
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Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:12:00 -
[77]
When I said leave things alone I was referring only to the fact that newbie corps are not taxed, not to the entire game.
Sure, some things will change or be upgraded over the life of an MMO game. IMO, taxing newbie corps is not one that needs any change.
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:17:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
Seems fairly simple to me. People keep saying they would like to see more people out of the noob corps and into the rest of eve.
Why do noob corps pay 0% tax?
Seems such a gigantic corp would need to be charging a bit of tax if you ask me. Personally I dont know of many player corps in the game that operate on 0% tax.
For the benifit of complete anti war protection seems a tax of 30% would be fair if you ask me.
I don't see why anyone would care whether or not people are in newbie corps or not. This is really just another very subtle whine from PvPers about not having enough "easy targets" to kill.
Are you are gamer?
www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:34:00 -
[79]
I think it's the fact that most player corps charge a tax to offset some costs (alliance space protection, ship replacement,...etc)
Newbie corps allow coverage against war decs...a nice annonymity...for no cost whatsoever.
I really do think that newbie corps should be just that...corps for newbies to learn the game. Not for high SP characters to troll in.
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Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.05 16:45:00 -
[80]
See, the fact that these are the corps that new players join, or are put into after leaving a player corp, does not make them newbie corps. That is just the name we have tagged them with. That does not mean that they should be for new players only. In fact, they are for any player that is not part of a player corp, for whatever reason.
Just because we call them newbie corps does not mean they don't serve a constructive role for long term members. Whether I (or anyone) like(s) that role or not is reall not relevent.
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Azrael Bierce
Cult of Lemen
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:11:00 -
[81]
Who cares if they are in a noob corp? The only people that seem to care day in and day out are the people whining about not being able to wardec them so they can grief in peace.
"Human interaction?" The noob corps are huge, there's always discussion and chatting and general goofing off. More than in most "player" corps I've been in.
If people don't want to deal with the politics of a real corp, then let them do what they want. I don't understand the obsession with forcing people to play a way they don't want to.
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Dark Matter
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:16:00 -
[82]
Why don't you simply allow people to do what they want? The people playing in the noob corps choose to be there and as they pay the same money as everyone eslse does. Leave them be to play the game the way they want to, instead of having the chattering classes trying to impose their idea of Eve on them and others.
Sig Removed. Inappropriate Content. Please e-mail us with any questions. ([email protected]) -Don't forget a copy of your sig!-ReverendM |
Vladikov Orrico
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:34:00 -
[83]
Quote:
Who cares if they are in a noob corp? The only people that seem to care day in and day out are the people whining about not being able to wardec them so they can grief in peace.
Seriously?
If we were in space...and you were part of a large (noob) corp full of hunders of pilots that ran dozens of station in high sec (expensive prime real estate)...do you honestly think they would allow their pilots to go forth untaxed? I ensure you these corps would be on the forefront of the corp tax discussion.
I am not a ganker, gate camper, whiner, etc.....I rather consider myself somewhat of a carebear in game...I just agree that there should be some sort fo tax situation when it comes to noob corps in high sec space.
It's just my opinion...
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Frug
SYOID
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.02.05 17:44:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Frug on 05/02/2007 17:41:16
Sounds like a great idea to me.
Originally by: Letouk Mernel
First they would have to point out the tax to the noob, in the tutorial, because most noobs won't realize the downside to staying in the newbie corp unless it's told to them. I don't think the tutorial talks about taxes much (maybe I'm wrong).
I fail to see how something like a 10% tax is a huge detriment to new players and if they fail to realize the downside after a few weeks of playing, they're just not paying attention. Darwinism.
Quote:
Second, player corps would have to increase their recruitment drives to grab all the newbies...
What? That doesn't make sense. They wouldn't -have- to do anything different other than mention low taxes.
Quote:
...those who absolutely want to avoid PvP and wardecs will now have to think about whether the 30% more grind-for-cash-to-offset-the-tax is still worth it...
Not sure where your 30% number came from. 10% is enough.
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Azrael Bierce
Cult of Lemen
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:35:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Vladikov Orrico
Quote:
Who cares if they are in a noob corp? The only people that seem to care day in and day out are the people whining about not being able to wardec them so they can grief in peace.
Seriously?
Oh, I see. Now it's a role playing problem.
You know, as a general rule, corporations pay you, not the other way around.
PC corps have tax rates to subsidize cheap ship access, etc. NPC corps don't provide any monetary benefits, so no good reason to have a tax rate.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 18:42:00 -
[86]
LOL I can see it now:
The alt corp dilemma. Lemme tell you why: Folks that stay in NPC corps will simply NOT SELL THIER **** with the main. Instead they make an alt, form a one man corp, stick him in Jita, and haul it all to him. Escrow (conract, whatever) all the stuff to him and have him list it for ZERO tax. The character never undocks, sits in his velator/ibis, transfers funds to the main once a week, and your npc corp guy simply laughs at you because he adapted and continuued doing what he was doing from the start.
Leave the NPC corps alone, likely you won't accomplish anything but driving new people off before they can find the love of the game.
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Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Asinia Au
Amarr
Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.05 20:16:00 -
[87]
SSgt Sniper makes a very good point!
The people that the newb corp taxers most want to affect with their taxes will find a simple way of avoiding any new taxes or other punitive measures and laugh at those who are trying to force them into a play style they clearly are not interested in.
OTOH, the true newbie will be hurt by these new measures and are less likely to continue the game. I cannot see any situation where you take something from players without giving something of at least equal value in return and not expect to lose players over it.
So, the bottom line is, any punitive measures will very unlikely accomplish anything (other than a new wave of alt creation) and at the same time will decrease the number of active accounts.
I seem to recall SOE tried this with disaserous results. Fortunately, I believe CCP is a little smarter than SOE and will not listen to the voices that SOE listened to.
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Lord Artemis
Filthy Wyrm
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.02.05 20:35:00 -
[88]
I think the NPC corp tax is a good idea tbh.
Percentage based is more than likely the best bet. For a truly new and struggling noob, 5%-10% is not much isk at all and they probably won't miss it. However, the more veteran you become in the NPC corp (because of your ability to make more is) they really have to start considering their options. Make it higher than 10% and only the truly honest that want to stay will glady pay to do so.
_____________________________
Public Health Advisory - Say NO to OOC! |
The Disruptor
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Posted - 2007.02.05 23:54:00 -
[89]
Edited by: The Disruptor on 05/02/2007 23:52:29
attention ccp, please apply this npc corp nerf immediately. Attention all noobs who want to leave an npc corp because of the tax, contact me and I'll explain autopilot so you can come to our hq and apply at Electron Industries. This offer will remain valid always, so the problem of them not having a corp is not an issue. My corp tax is 5%, and no one will miss it much.
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Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.06 00:32:00 -
[90]
I think the real question here, and in other threads on this subject is simply.
What's your real agenda? Why do you want people out of noob and NPC Corps?
Start giving some real reasons other then teh usual lame "They are exploiting the system" or "they are all macro'ers."
Start being honest and tell us why you are all so fire dup about people who want to play the game their way and not how you demand
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