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Nivo Green Stac Enterprises 41	Posted - 2016.02.21 08:44:15 - [1] - Quote The map in eve is a pretty awesome thing; specifically the static nature of systems, routes, and size. Static geography is core to the history and dynamics of a living world, and imbues the events that take place in it with unique stories that reflect the challenges and features of the stage they unfold on. Geography drives decisions; risk vs reward, land value, strategic value, plex shuttles, the list goes on. Features like gate pipes are important for all sorts of pvp. Shortcuts, specifically in high-security space, drive opportunistic individuals on both sides of the spectrum towards "dangerous" parts of space, for the chance at a shorter route, or the fool that wanted it. If you didn't already guess it from the title, this thread is about the Amarr - Jita short cut route through the Kaaputenen - Niarja Stargate. I love Rancer, I never actually go there, but I love what it represents, and I love the thought of those poor brave souls who clock in every day for thier 9-5 job smartbombing the stargates. Rancer acts as a lowsec shortcut to get to minmatar space(specifically Rens/Hek) from Jita, cutting a 25/19 to 15/9 jumps. You must go through 4 lowsec systems to complete the shortcut, and Rens is pretty worthless nowadays, so its not as significant as it once may have been, however it still holds a special place in eve as a pirate's nest. The Jita - Dodixie has a similar low sec shortcut available as well, but I don't remember any corp mates linking their shuttle loss with a pith A-type invul to smartbombing battleship for those systems like I have seen for rancer. Some might argue that Niarja fills this same shortcut risk/reward role. Today I see the equivalent daily losses of ridiculous things, but there is a big difference between something like Rancer and Niarja. Things like 22bil providence's filled with zydrine, and other insane acts of carebearing don't happen in lowsec shortcuts like they do in Niarja. Doesn't that mean Niarja is even more dangerous than a Lowsec shortcut? Of course not, and most people will roll thier eyes for stating the obvious, but Niarja is high security space. Your plex shuttle is unlikely to get smart bombed by a battleship in Niarja. The Kaaputenen - Niarja stargate pair jumps a massive amount of space between the two. Some nullsec gates I beleive jump farther, but they are few in number and do not exist at the core of the economic world of EVE. To illustrate, Jita - Amarr takes 9 jumps if you travel through this stargate pair, however if you avoid this gate, then it takes 45 jumps. That's nearly twice as long as Jita to Rens or Dodixie. Many people get the impression that Minmatar space or Gallente space is far away from Jita, but this is not the case. My stupid idea is to make Niarja a low security system. This has more motivation than just to make Niarja a cool shortcut option. A simple action like this would have fairly significant economic impact on the whole game universe. The Kaputennen - Niarja stargate massively shrinks high-security space, and acts as a lense to focus the game market into jita. Currently, you either live far outside the Amarr-Jita sphere, or you live within it. This either means you have the convenience of quickly heading to Jita to buy your things, or you have to occasionally buy over priced garbage from Dodixie/Hek/Rens, and frequently do large sourcing from jita to keep yourself supplied. Amarr space is giant. Really it is a huge portion of high and low security space, and thus a lot of people live there. I always see people auto piloting freighters from Amarr to Jita daily, so clearly a good portion of Industry/Minerals operates within Amarr space, and supplies Jita. So this change produces quite a few interesting questions that I really would like some people with a better grasp on EVE economics to discuss and answer: If Niarja was low security space, how many of those people would leave amarr space and move to caldari? How many would stay and instead supply the Amarr market? If Niarja was purged from high-security space, it would put all of the trade hubs within relatively equal distance of each other with the exception of Amarr and Jita being very far. What would this do to those markets? With tools like eve-central, and CREST now supplying live market data would Amarr or the other trade hubs become actually competitively priced with Jita, instead of always being a 'convenience charge' economy based on distance from Jita? *TL;DR:* Make Niarja low sec so I can get my shuttle smart bombed. Also trade hub balancing. WIth so many people living in amarr/caldari space, I wonder what sort of crazies would take the Niarja low sec shortcut to save 36 jumps?
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 44585	Posted - 2016.02.21 08:59:00 - [2] - Quote Stealth grrrr ganking thread. Why not Uedama too? Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33391	Posted - 2016.02.21 09:01:23 - [3] - Quote I for one am ok with deleting Niarja Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Nivo Green Stac Enterprises 41	Posted - 2016.02.21 09:10:31 - [4] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Stealth grrrr ganking thread. Why not Uedama too? Does Uedama cause two trade hubs which are extremely far apart to be practically right next to each other? I honestly don't have much experience with the system, but I have heard of some expensive kills there too. I understand how an idea to make Niarja lowsec might seem an aim to remove the juiciest ganking system in the game, but really there is always someone piloting thier 20bil isk freighter somewhere. I thought about what removing the Kaaputenen - Niarja gate would mean, but leaving it as a guaranteed to be camped hyper-shortcut across highsec would create tons of stories of brave idiots who dared to take the risk, some even surviving. I don't know any other system which would have just a massive risk vs reward balance like that.
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 643	Posted - 2016.02.21 11:09:09 - [5] - Quote The only real option is making at least 2 other 15-25 jump options from jita-amarr and make them far enough apart that you cant really cover all of them and then let ppl choose their safety levels and make gankers work for it. Imam: Have you heard anything I've said? Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? Imam: That's right. Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
Sturmwolke 685	Posted - 2016.02.21 11:18:45 - [6] - Quote It'll concentrate even more traffic into Uedama, gankers dream. The Amarr hub might or might now get moved depending alternate high-sec only routes. General quality of life degrades as everyone crowds into the hub regions with contiguous highsec connection. Make the effort to understand the mindset of high players. They're part of the entire EVE ecosystem, whether anyone likes or not. Stop beating the dead horse on risk vs rewards, it's an argument that goes nowhere. tl;dr Yes, its a stupid idea. Bury it.
Chopper Rollins Lantean Empire 1243	Posted - 2016.02.21 11:18:46 - [7] - Quote Get out of hisec. Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Gliese Casserres Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 47	Posted - 2016.02.21 11:21:12 - [8] - Quote This again... TL:DR is actually GIb moar easy dank kills for me... Then again, the only content I'd get from it is betting which lowsex group parks there.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7224	Posted - 2016.02.21 11:49:02 - [9] - Quote Chances are that it would just kill off the Amarr market and everything else would remain much the same. Unless Uedama went too, hauling would still take place entirely in highsec it would just take longer and cost more. People wouldn't suddenly go rushing their freighters into lowsec en masse. It doesn't even make sense though if you think abut it, as that would be removing the only direct path between Caldari and Amarr, and since they are friendly with each other it's unlikely they'd be completely detached. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 4	Posted - 2016.02.21 14:18:35 - [10] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: ...that would be removing the only direct path between Caldari and Amarr, and since they are friendly with each other it's unlikely they'd be completely detached. Huh. Only one system in the game directly links Caldari to Amarr space and this would detach them just by changing the sec status. I thought you'd have to move gates or something. Seems dumb that changing sec status would actually detach the spaces from each other.

Nivo Green Stac Enterprises 41	Posted - 2016.02.21 16:13:16 - [11] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Chances are that it would just kill off the Amarr market and everything else would remain much the same. Unless Uedama went too, hauling would still take place entirely in highsec it would just take longer and cost more. People wouldn't suddenly go rushing their freighters into lowsec en masse. It doesn't even make sense though if you think about it, as that would be removing the only direct path between Caldari and Amarr, and since they are friendly with each other it's unlikely they'd be completely detached. I agree that it doesn't probably make much sense for caldari/amarr space to be basically detached, but isn't it perhaps even stranger that their spaces are only connected by this single large gate? Maybe, like someone else said, a few gates should be added to create 25-30 jump trips between Jita and Amarr. I haven't been around that long, but correct me If I am wrong, CCP has shuffled gates before, and the current trade hub situation wasn't always like this (if I remember right, it was even worse). I really wonder if Amarr would die, given the scale of the space surrounding it, but I don't have a degree in spaceship economics so I can't really say I have any idea what I'm talking about. Hek and Dodixie seem to be doing OK despite their distance from Jita, however they still operate on a convenience economy where the only goods that sell there are because someone is making a profit shipping it from Jita. Is that the best any 2nd trade hub will be in EVE? Has it always been like that? Finally, I don't expect anyone would be bringing thier freighters to lowsec Niarja, let's not be silly. A lot of people are making assumptions about motivation for such a change. I don't really care who this change would affect, as I think it would affect most people. Are there people who live purely in null and don't give a **** about Niarja? Yes. Are there lots of people who live in Null/Low Sec/Wormholes that rely on Jita always being very close? Also yes. Perhaps Jita being accessible from most of highsec (read: amarr space) is a design necessity at this point and removing that shortcut gate would destroy amarr space and all of the amarr carebears would funnel into caldari space.
Ibutho Inkosi Irubo Kovu 168	Posted - 2016.02.21 17:03:05 - [12] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: I for one am ok with deleting Niarja Just because I keep agreeing with you doesn't mean we'll be swapping slobber in the shower. It has to be a fluke. As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 754	Posted - 2016.02.21 17:46:58 - [13] - Quote Sturmwolke wrote: It'll concentrate even more traffic into Uedama, gankers dream. The Amarr hub might or might now get moved depending alternate high-sec only routes. Cutting the pipe between Jita and Amarr won't shut down or move the Amarr hub because it is not Jita alone that makes Amarr a hub. Both are major crossroads between multiple regions. Amarr is 1 jumps from Kador. 2 Jumps from Tash-Murkon and Kor-Azor. 3 Jumps from Khanid. 4 Jumps from Citadel and 6 Jumps from Genesis. Cutting out Jita still leaves Amarr as the regional hub for several regions. My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Elite Harvester Elite Harvesters 54	Posted - 2016.02.21 18:22:54 - [14] - Quote Nivo Green wrote: If Niarja was purged from high-security space, it would put all of the trade hubs within relatively equal distance of each other with the exception of Amarr and Jita being very far. What would this do to those markets? "Make Niarja Great"... By deleting it altogether! Lol, really? Visit www.MinerBumping.com to find out how *you can help* save Highsec. Proud owner of 110,000 New Order Shares.
Kaivar Lancer Federal Defense Union 719	Posted - 2016.02.21 18:44:58 - [15] - Quote Every empire should be separated by low sec space.
Nivo Green Stac Enterprises 42	Posted - 2016.02.21 19:24:51 - [16] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: Every empire should be separated by low sec space. When I first started EVE I was coming from a history in Ultima Online, and I was a bit surprised that you could make so much money in high sec which is essentially EVE's "guard zone" of cities equivalent. In ultima if you wanted to DO things, you had to leave the safety of the guard zone. There was simply nothing in cities that could generate real money (almost nothing). A lot of people would argue that 'there's no way we'd be able to afford anything as we'd lose too much' but that's silly. Things like wormholes, and deep null provide relatively safe ways to make plenty of isk, and if isk was harder to get on average, the economy would simply shift. Maybe people have too much isk for something that drastic to be recoverable from, and a lot of subscribers are highsec isk grinders. I think this game would actually benefit from making concord only work in a radius around special structures like highsec gates/stations, maybe make the faction police be the standard response instead of concord for deep space outside of those structures. Elite Harvester wrote: "Make Niarja Great"... By deleting it altogether! Lol, really? Lol Delete and make lowsec are two very different things. Perhaps the title is silly, but I am not arguing for the removal of the stargate. If you want we can make Kaaputenen lowsec too!
SurrenderMonkey Space Llama Industries 2043	Posted - 2016.02.21 19:29:03 - [17] - Quote I got the impression that this was an "idea" thread pretty quickly and couldn't bring myself to read an idea from someone who isn't smart enough to post their idea in the idea board instead of GD. "Help, I'm bored with missions!" http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Nivo Green Stac Enterprises 42	Posted - 2016.02.21 19:33:30 - [18] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: I got the impression that this was an "idea" thread pretty quickly and couldn't bring myself to read an idea from someone who isn't smart enough to post their idea in the idea board instead of GD. I have made a mistake, any chance an ISD could move my post there?
Adunh Slavy 1636	Posted - 2016.02.22 03:17:44 - [19] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: Every empire should be separated by low sec space. Does that include France and Germany? Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33395	Posted - 2016.02.22 03:33:43 - [20] - Quote They said empire, not country. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)

Zappity Black Aces I N F A M O U S 2702	Posted - 2016.02.22 05:44:43 - [21] - Quote Uedama should be lowsec. It would diminish Jita's galaxy-wide dominance and encourage production growth in the other hubs. Even better, wtb dynamic sec status. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Oxide Ammar 231	Posted - 2016.02.22 08:10:34 - [22] - Quote Chopper Rollins wrote: Get out of hisec. This, some people don't have the balls to shoot something that definitely will shoot back...Jeez. Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Eternus8lux8lucis Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 644	Posted - 2016.02.22 08:36:37 - [23] - Quote Nivo Green wrote: I haven't been around that long, but correct me If I am wrong, CCP has shuffled gates before, and the current trade hub situation wasn't always like this (if I remember right, it was even worse). I really wonder if Amarr would die, given the scale of the space surrounding it, but I don't have a degree in spaceship economics so I can't really say I have any idea what I'm talking about. Hek and Dodixie seem to be doing OK despite their distance from Jita, however they still operate on a convenience economy where the only goods that sell there are because someone is making a profit shipping it from Jita. Is that the best any 2nd trade hub will be in EVE? Has it always been like that? In the beginning of Eve there was a "super highway" system to get between the empires. Yulai was the central point in this highway and was the first major hub in game. The reason most of the others sprang up was actually mission runners when CCP introduced missions. Each hub is a central point for high level agents under the old agent system running L4 agents. Jita was of course Caldari Navy, Dodixie was Fed Navy, Rens is Brutor Tribe, Hek was Boundless Creations, a minmatar R&D corp. Amarr imo was kind of one of the oddities but I would assume still follows the same pattern. As L4 mission runners congregated people got the brilliant idea to supply them with stuff and the hubs we see today sprang up, especially after CCP changed the super highway system to the gate system we have today. I am uncertain of the exact time frame of when it was changed but it was fairly early in the game 2003-2004ish. Maybe someone else can chime in with that info. The reality is that CCP can change gates at any time to recreate the map, they just dont for efficiency issues. What would be interesting would be such things as player made gates, smugglers gates or other gates made by the empires that may or may not work all the time, or just be disabled or destructible by enemy faction warfare players in high sec enemy empire space as a way to bring the FW fight into empire more often as alternate routes that players can use. Imam: Have you heard anything I've said? Richard B. Riddick: You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right? Imam: That's right. Richard B. Riddick: Had to end sometime.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7229	Posted - 2016.02.22 11:43:06 - [24] - Quote Nivo Green wrote: I agree that it doesn't probably make much sense for caldari/amarr space to be basically detached, but isn't it perhaps even stranger that their spaces are only connected by this single large gate? Maybe, like someone else said, a few gates should be added to create 25-30 jump trips between Jita and Amarr. I just don;t see the benefit of it. Just make freighters warp slower in Niarja if the idea is to just make the game as boring as possible for freighters pilots or remove the ability to post orders in Amarr if the idea is to kill off that trade hub. That's all the change would effectively do. It wouldn't create content as it wouldn't be an option for most people shipping stuff, so they'd simply be paying more for the same trips. Nivo Green wrote: I haven't been around that long, but correct me If I am wrong, CCP has shuffled gates before, and the current trade hub situation wasn't always like this (if I remember right, it was even worse). I really wonder if Amarr would die, given the scale of the space surrounding it, but I don't have a degree in spaceship economics so I can't really say I have any idea what I'm talking about. Hek and Dodixie seem to be doing OK despite their distance from Jita, however they still operate on a convenience economy where the only goods that sell there are because someone is making a profit shipping it from Jita. Is that the best any 2nd trade hub will be in EVE? Has it always been like that? It's not something they frequently do and there has to be a good reason to do it beyond "this could be interesting". Amarr wouldn't die off completely, but it would lose it's position as second biggest trade hub and rapidly deplete in number of players as somewhere else would gain population. I imagine Dodixie would grow into the second largest hub and other than shifting a bunch of players about much would continue as ever it did. Nivo Green wrote: Finally, I don't expect anyone would be bringing thier freighters to lowsec Niarja, let's not be silly. A lot of people are making assumptions about motivation for such a change. I don't really care who this change would affect, as I think it would affect most people. Are there people who live purely in null and don't give a **** about Niarja? Yes. Are there lots of people who live in Null/Low Sec/Wormholes that rely on Jita always being very close? Also yes. Perhaps Jita being accessible from most of highsec (read: amarr space) is a design necessity at this point and removing that shortcut gate would destroy amarr space and all of the amarr carebears would funnel into caldari space. I think you're thinking of this a bit backwards. I don't think Jita would be even remotely affected by a change like this. Nothing in Jita relies on the proximity of Amarr, rather the population of Amarr space relies on it's proximity to Jita. If that were cut off and it were now a 30 jump trip, it would just mean those people would move to other regions 8 jumps out of Jita. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Andrew Space Spaceheads Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2016.02.22 12:36:17 - [25] - Quote Build a wall! Make the carebears pay for it!
Nivo Green Stac Enterprises 43	Posted - 2016.02.22 18:06:32 - [26] - Quote Andrew Space wrote: Build a wall! Make the carebears pay for it! Andrew Space CSM 11, also lets ban all minmatar from empire space until we can sort this mess out.
Barrett Fruitcake State War Academy Caldari State 53	Posted - 2016.02.22 18:16:42 - [27] - Quote Let's make it so Nivo Green is unable to buy anything from a Hi Sec market and must haul all his gear through Rancer in a T1 hauler, repeatedly, like Ground Hog Day.
Adunh Slavy 1636	Posted - 2016.02.23 03:48:05 - [28] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: They said empire, not country. Every state is an empire. To say other wise denies sovereignty over one's self. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt
Pix Severus Empty You 3166	Posted - 2016.02.23 04:10:49 - [29] - Quote Make Jita lowsec. Yes, I went there. My lord.
Matarella Righteous Choirboys The Bastion 39	Posted - 2016.02.23 10:32:19 - [30] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Chances are that it would just kill off the Amarr market and everything else would remain much the same. Unless Uedama went too, hauling would still take place entirely in highsec it would just take longer and cost more. People wouldn't suddenly go rushing their freighters into lowsec en masse. It doesn't even make sense though if you think abut it, as that would be removing the only direct path between Caldari and Amarr, and since they are friendly with each other it's unlikely they'd be completely detached. It does not make sense that it is only 0.5 sec status either. It is the only route connecting the 2 empires. They are allies. And it a huge trade route. The empires should be looking to increase the security on such an important trade route. Especially when so many ships get blown up there.

ISD Fractal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1068	Posted - 2016.02.23 15:04:04 - [31] - Quote Moved to Player Features and Ideas Discussion. ISD Fractal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Threm Heavy Rains Public-Enemy 5	Posted - 2016.02.23 18:58:39 - [32] - Quote Different things: (1) There is too much ridiculous ganking in Highsec. Symptoms: Even nearly empty freighters and jump freighters are ganked for the lools. The level of cost effective ganking covers maybe 70%? of the current hauls. Reasons: Ganking is too cheap and because this problem had no care for so long time, the funds of the gank alliances are full from the ganks so far. Cure: Make ganking more expensive that it make sense for precious freighters who did not took care in splitting the haul. Drop it to 10% of the current hauls. This can be done by faster concord, higher basis tank of the freighter, more fitting opportunities etc. But please do not think three low slots with ridicilous fitting capabilities were the solution! (2) Jita is dominating the trade market. Symptoms: You can get everything there. There is no margin in trading local content between the trade hubs. One would think that Matarstuff is cheaper in Hek/Rens and other way around. The other tradehubs just have only a larger gap between buy and sell as an expression of the lower relevance as trade hub. Reasons: But there isnt a real relevant region specific stuff Everyone ships his stuff to Jita. Cure: Provide local content specific for a region or change participation of the main elements, such as minerals etc. It would encourage trading. Make trading more difficult but shorter. There is no game content in jumping 25 jumps in Highsec. Let it be 10 Jumps but with a few lowsec inbetween. But as a network of routes not as a pipe like rancer, so that it makes camping not too easy. Give relevant more High to High wormholes with freighter capability to encourage scanning and rewarding efforts. Make trading between hubs more necessary and beneficial. But tbh, that would be tremendous changes, so I doubt its feasible.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 1063	Posted - 2016.02.23 19:41:32 - [33] - Quote OPs idea sounds vaguely familiar to the "Let's make hisec empires separated by lowsec" idea. If that were to happen you would just see more people using Jump Freighters to move stuff. The cost for a Freighter would drop, and you would see less freighter ganks. Jump fuel would increase. Cost for all items would go up because of risk. Hisec dwellers would just have specific mission ships in each of the empires and use Jump Clones to move around, same for incursion runners. As for market hubs, Market Hubs are a player created dynamic. CCP didn't make Jita a main trade hub, the player-base did. You would have to make it profitable for other trade hubs to become a thing.
Hopelesshobo Tactical Nuclear Penguin's 572	Posted - 2016.02.23 21:17:35 - [34] - Quote So when did CCP state that it was their design intent to make Jita/Amarr/Dodixie/Rens/Hek the main trade hubs? Have you ever thought that this would simply cause the Amarr trade hub to move so it wouldn't take 45 jumps to trade? Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 763	Posted - 2016.02.23 22:37:05 - [35] - Quote Hopelesshobo wrote: So when did CCP state that it was their design intent to make Jita/Amarr/Dodixie/Rens/Hek the main trade hubs? Have you ever thought that this would simply cause the Amarr trade hub to move so it wouldn't take 45 jumps to trade? This. CCP didn't make the hubs. They exist because of the players. CCP has actually tried to break up Jita a few times, especially back in the day when Jita crashed the servers routinely due to local traffic. Making Jita harder won't change that. Players want a "Main" hub, and now Jita is that hub. Jita will remain that hub until the cluster expands and some other system becomes as convenient in the future as Jita is now. Thera maybe. My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 25	Posted - 2016.02.24 05:46:11 - [36] - Quote before you cut off Amarr from Jita CCP must upgrade Amarr space to a Caldari level. This include Khanid and Ammatar regions also. Today Amarr space mostly empty.
Zappity Black Aces I N F A M O U S 2707	Posted - 2016.02.24 08:04:04 - [37] - Quote Yulai used to be a trade hub. Then the gates were changed and now it isn't. There is nothing stopping this from happening again. Making shipping between Jita and the other hubs more difficult would encourage local production and sales. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Lugh Crow-Slave 1614	Posted - 2016.02.24 08:39:20 - [38] - Quote All this would do is kill the last real market outside of jita Citadel worm hole tax
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2340	Posted - 2016.02.24 13:48:53 - [39] - Quote Nivo Green wrote: Does Uedama cause two trade hubs which are extremely far apart to be practically right next to each other? I honestly don't have much experience with the system, but I have heard of some expensive kills there too. I understand how an idea to make Niarja lowsec might seem an aim to remove the juiciest ganking system in the game, but really there is always someone piloting thier 20bil isk freighter somewhere. Yes, it does. It makes the travel to 3 trade hubs significantly shorter than taking the long route via Niarja. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.


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