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JonShannow	Posted - 2007.02.05 11:40:00 - [1] I have had a Drake for a while now, really getting to like the boat. I am thinking of training for its big brother the Nighthawk.... Question is what is better about the Nighthawk and by how much before I go do all that training for one. My Drake setup... Highs 7 Heavy IIs Mids 2 large extenders II, 1 EM passive II, Therm passive II, 2 Invlun II. Lows 3 BC2s, 1 Shield relay Rigs 3x Purgers Drones 5x tech 2 dependant The above is for pve and its a lazymans setup, tanks all never needs changing. Suggestions for that last slot plz ;) Jon.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.02.05 11:43:00 - [2] My dps is nearly the same as with a drake - Slightly more tbh. I can fit a mean passive tank, and have high resistances too. The main adv for the nighthawk is its resistances. It makes it the perfect tank. Drake has trouble with that compared to mr NH
JonShannow	Posted - 2007.02.05 11:49:00 - [3] Yeah looking at the two, the Nighthawk has higher therm/kinetic resists, is that before you apply bonuses or what you see is what you get ;)
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 11:51:00 - [4] Honestly, nighthawk isn't much better than drake. Especially not for 120 mil more expensive ship. I use it only for pve and with active tank because I actually need dps to kill things. But honestly, difference is very little, especially untill you have CS 5.
Waxau Liberty Rogues Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.02.05 12:03:00 - [5] Whilst i would agree with the previous poster, its the same with all CBC and tier 2 BC. Im currently tanking 0.0 sansha spawns with my NH, with only 2 large extenders, and 2 photon hardeners. Simple. Its a nice ship if you can afford it - if not....you arent missing out majorly
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 12:08:00 - [6] The main "drawback" of CS is: a. actually less hp than tier 2 bc(drake has 5469shield, NH 4805) b. less rig slots c. price (for pretty much same dps, in all races), which makes ships very equal for pvp.
JonShannow	Posted - 2007.02.05 12:12:00 - [7] Thanks for the reply's kinda what I thought. Goes looking for another toy to train for ;)
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.02.05 12:14:00 - [8] tbh i prefer the nighthawk for about anything feels alot more solid and it does in fact signicifantly more dps (1/7 with max skills tbh, that's what? 15% too lazy to check, anyway enough to notice) Drake is great, nighthawk is better in many ways
Ak'athra J'ador Amarr Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 12:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 05/02/2007 12:27:45 Originally by: Deathbarrage tbh i prefer the nighthawk for about anything feels alot more solid and it does in fact signicifantly more dps (1/7 with max skills tbh, that's what? 15% too lazy to check, anyway enough to notice) Drake is great, nighthawk is better in many ways It is, indeed: 345 dmg/ heavy missile and 4.37s rof is 4tw. Requires like 60d training to get that. But if you read OP's post, he is about to train for one. And it will take him another 6 months to get nighthawk to it's 15% more dps .... Read, think, post. Oh and just to add... passive tanked drake > passive tank nighthawk. Just FYI.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.02.05 12:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 05/02/2007 12:27:45 Originally by: Deathbarrage tbh i prefer the nighthawk for about anything feels alot more solid and it does in fact signicifantly more dps (1/7 with max skills tbh, that's what? 15% too lazy to check, anyway enough to notice) Drake is great, nighthawk is better in many ways It is, indeed: 345 dmg/ heavy missile and 4.37s rof is 4tw. Requires like 60d training to get that. But if you read OP's post, he is about to train for one. And it will take him another 6 months to get nighthawk to it's 15% more dps .... Read, think, post. Oh and just to add... passive tanked drake > passive tank nighthawk. Just FYI. I pvp in the nighthawk i active tank so really can't be bothered by that anyway I was talking about my own experience with teh NH and when i trained for it i already have CS 5 etc cuz it was my 4th cruiser lvl 5
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2007.02.05 13:02:00 - [11] Command ship 5 AND dont forget heavy missle spec lvl 5. then NH is the way. --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 13:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Gee'Kin Command ship 5 AND dont forget heavy missle spec lvl 5. then NH is the way. Or DG heavy launchers -------- .....
Guardian Angell Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.05 14:19:00 - [13] Nighthawk FTW For once I agree with the BoB guys... how can you compare 7 launchers with ~9s rof to 6 launchers with ~4s rof, when it comes to dps? I do better damage with my cerberus than with my drake. Think at the nighthawk as the big brother of cerberus. It's a killer. And don't passive tank it, ffs. At least not in PVP. ________________ Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups - Under Siege 2
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 14:39:00 - [14] Edited by: LUKEC on 05/02/2007 14:37:23 Originally by: Guardian Angell Nighthawk FTW For once I agree with the BoB guys... how can you compare 7 launchers with ~9s rof to 6 launchers with ~4s rof, when it comes to dps? I do better damage with my cerberus than with my drake. Think at the nighthawk as the big brother of cerberus. It's a killer. And don't passive tank it, ffs. At least not in PVP. It's like 7x 1.25 = 8.75 vs 6x 1.25/0.75 = 10 <- with cs 5, with CS 4, you get "only 9.6" which is not that much different to compare. (or actually, 8.75 vs 10 is 12.5% difference) 9s vs 4s is... like celes owning fountain. Drake with heavies t2 and spec lvl4 has 8.44s rof WITHOUT dmg mods and rof implants.(and 6.45s rof with 3 bcus(that don't really fit too well, though)) Nighthawk CAN'T have less than 4.37s rof WITH rof implants and faction launchers(which you can't beat with t2 and spec 5). That's with 3 bcus. With 4 you won't get under 4s. Have a nice day in your region. -------- .....
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.05 14:49:00 - [15] If you have L3 command ships, NH is slightly better in DPS, a bit better in overall tank, and much better in K/T tank. If you are at L5 command ships, NH is much better than Drake in any possible imaginable way. If you fly PvP and don't expect mainly K/T incoming damage, you probably better stick with a Drake, because it's cheap. For everything else, and mostly for highsec PvE, switch to NH as soon as possible. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Helmut Rul	Posted - 2007.02.05 14:57:00 - [16] Edited by: Helmut Rul on 05/02/2007 14:54:34 Is the nighthawk best as a passive or active tanker ? I am planning on getting a nighthawk and wonder what kind of tanking i should plan on fitting it with.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Helmut Rul Edited by: Helmut Rul on 05/02/2007 14:54:34 Is the nighthawk best as a passive or active tanker ? I am planning on getting a nighthawk and wonder what kind of tanking i should plan on fitting it with. Honestly, passive tanks can be omfg strong. But you will waste dps for it. Active tank is usually good until you met dedicated sucker. Depends really. I use active on pve, for pvp... i prefer raven. -------- .....
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2007 15:07:31 What, sacrifice much offence for decent defence ? On a NH ? Naaah... on other ships, maybe, but not for passive tank NH. You have 5 lows... 2 BCUs and 3 SPRs, or 3 BCUs and 2 SPRs, not that much difference in DPS (a bit over 10%) yet a lot of difference in tank (up to 31.5% for T2 SPRs, freshly available at insane prices). _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2007 15:07:31 What, sacrifice much offence for decent defence ? On a NH ? Naaah... on other ships, maybe, but not for passive tank NH. You have 5 lows... 2 BCUs and 3 SPRs, or 3 BCUs and 2 SPRs, not that much difference in DPS (a bit over 10%) yet a lot of difference in tank (up to 31.5% for T2 SPRs, freshly available at insane prices). Care to reveal magic setup? -------- .....
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:31:00 - [20] Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2007 15:29:09 The setup is pretty trivial, to be honest, not like it hasn't been posted at least a couple of times already (with minor variations) before the age of rigs... but it's just so much better with rigs. Works best with 5% gnome implants (grid, shield max, shield recharge) and even better with siege mindlinked squad leader. HI: heavy launchers (whatever fits / you have skills for) + whatever in remaining hi MED: 2 LSE, 3 hardners of your choice (active or passive) LOW: 2 BCU, 3 SPR RIG: 2x purger (or purger+extender, or dual extender) Depending on skills and available ISK, you can end up cramming in mostly T2 stuff in there and some faction/officer mods. In case of faction passive hardners and maxed compensation skills, this is a full capless setup with much better as T2 hardner resists. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:42:00 - [21] Edited by: LUKEC on 05/02/2007 15:46:44 Hmmm @ akita's setup: 106hp/s at best. With something like 13k shield with perfect skills & implants(without gang).(I used t1 purgers and t2 spr at calculating) Not impressed tbh. Would be enough for belt ratting, but ab/mwd is nice to have there for looting. For pvp, it seriously lacks mobility. And here is where drake kicks in: Lack of 1 lowslot is replaced with 1 more rig(for less cap gimping and same effect with t1 rig(and 30% cost:P)), additional medslot for another large extender(and you have 20% more shield to start with(you get slightly lower resists, but 2x invul + passive em thingie will give you omfghot resistances with compensation skills) -------- .....
Karasu Kaizoku Caldari Project Mortormis	Posted - 2007.02.05 15:46:00 - [22] Edited by: Karasu Kaizoku on 05/02/2007 15:43:29 Friend of mine in a night hawk can tank a raw DPS around 1600 and once you go over that you will slowly start to kill him off. So a Drake would not be able to relaly break that tank unless it had anti ship Heavy Missiles lot's of BCS's and implants + rigs, then you might have a chance at putting that much out. By then you will have spent like a billion anyway.* - CCP are forum ***'s for removing a signature .00001 byte over the limit.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Karasu Kaizoku Edited by: Karasu Kaizoku on 05/02/2007 15:43:29 Friend of mine in a night hawk can tank a raw DPS around 1600 and once you go over that you will slowly start to kill him off. So a Drake would not be able to relaly break that tank unless it had anti ship Heavy Missiles lot's of BCS's and implants + rigs, then you might have a chance at putting that much out. By then you will have spent like a billion anyway.* plz show me a NH setup tanking 1600dps
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:14:00 - [24] Edited by: LUKEC on 05/02/2007 16:12:42 Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Karasu Kaizoku Edited by: Karasu Kaizoku on 05/02/2007 15:43:29 Friend of mine in a night hawk can tank a raw DPS around 1600 and once you go over that you will slowly start to kill him off. So a Drake would not be able to relaly break that tank unless it had anti ship Heavy Missiles lot's of BCS's and implants + rigs, then you might have a chance at putting that much out. By then you will have spent like a billion anyway.* plz show me a NH setup tanking 1600dps It's not problem really, unless you are nosfed. That's with active tank: 6x dg heavy gist XL xtpe, pith b-type amp, 2x dg invul, em hardener(61%+) 3x dg bcu, 2x ts pdu(get officer for perma tank) 2x cap size rigs Won't really run perma, but it can run on auto near 5minutes from full cap. That will tank 1.6k dps without crystal implants. (resists are all above 81%, without gang mods) Wtf I actually fit monster tank of BS size on BC with what used to be biggest weapon. Shield tank isn't overpowered. With passive tank, it might be doable: 3x L extenders, 2x dg invul 5x spr em rig, purger I'll do some math(not sure tbh)... after some number crunching... peak 168hp/s without gang. Maybe with resistance gang module (unsure on resists, if you get them over 87% it should be enough) -------- .....
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:14:00 - [25] Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2007 16:14:41 Originally by: LUKEC Hmmm @ akita's setup: 106hp/s at best. With something like 13k shield with perfect skills & implants(without gang).(I used t1 purgers and t2 spr at calculating) Not impressed tbh. Would be enough for belt ratting, but ab/mwd is nice to have there for looting. For pvp, it seriously lacks mobility. Not sure what calculations you make, but here's the lowdown. BASE: 4805 shield recharge in 1250 sec With 2x LSE II extenders, 10055 shield 1.25 L5 shield management, 1.05 gnome implant = 13197.1875 shield max Recharge 1250 sec, 0.75 L5 shield op, 0.95 gnome implant, 0.76^3 SPR IIs, 0.8^2 T1 Purgers = 250.21632 sec Peak recharge, 131.85 shield per second. Not sure where you get the 106 per second, that's roughly 25% lower as actual value. As for the resists... BASE resists on a NH (as in "get into it") are 25/70/71.88/77.5 Assuming you want a full passive setup (NOS immunity), you could for instance add two EM and one "whatever you want" T2 passive handner, say explosive for instance (or kinetic if you like), and you go to 76.39/84.06/71.88/77.50 resists. So, let's talk "normalised damage" (needed to "insta-pop" you) and DPS soaked at peak recharge, shall we ? Normalised HP: average \| EM/Expl/Kin/Therm 58.5k \| 55.9k/82.8k/46.9k/58.6k Raw DPS soaked: average \| EM DPS/Expl DPS/Kin DPS/Therm DPS 585 \| 558/827/469/586 ...all the while, doing close to 400 kinetic DPS yourself, I wouldn't necessarily call this a bad setup. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:19:00 - [26] ouch... i used t1 spr in calculations instead of t2. Not that i plan to buy 80mil mods :P Anyway, what good use does that setup have, akita? Just tank for sake of it? -------- .....
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:22:00 - [27] Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 05/02/2007 16:12:42 Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Karasu Kaizoku Edited by: Karasu Kaizoku on 05/02/2007 15:43:29 Friend of mine in a night hawk can tank a raw DPS around 1600 and once you go over that you will slowly start to kill him off. So a Drake would not be able to relaly break that tank unless it had anti ship Heavy Missiles lot's of BCS's and implants + rigs, then you might have a chance at putting that much out. By then you will have spent like a billion anyway.* plz show me a NH setup tanking 1600dps It's not problem really, unless you are nosfed. That's with active tank: 6x dg heavy gist XL xtpe, pith b-type amp, 2x dg invul, em hardener(61%+) 3x dg bcu, 2x ts pdu(get officer for perma tank) 2x cap size rigs Won't really run perma, but it can run on auto near 5minutes from full cap. That will tank 1.6k dps without crystal implants. (resists are all above 81%, without gang mods) Wtf I actually fit monster tank of BS size on BC with what used to be biggest weapon. Shield tank isn't overpowered. With passive tank, it might be doable: 3x L extenders, 2x dg invul 5x spr em rig, purger I'll do some math(not sure tbh)... after some number crunching... peak 168hp/s without gang. Maybe with resistance gang module (unsure on resists, if you get them over 87% it should be enough) that active tank is about 1200 dps tanked
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:28:00 - [28] Edited by: LUKEC on 05/02/2007 16:26:09 Edited by: LUKEC on 05/02/2007 16:25:04 Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 05/02/2007 16:12:42 Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Karasu Kaizoku Edited by: Karasu Kaizoku on 05/02/2007 15:43:29 Friend of mine in a night hawk can tank a raw DPS around 1600 and once you go over that you will slowly start to kill him off. So a Drake would not be able to relaly break that tank unless it had anti ship Heavy Missiles lot's of BCS's and implants + rigs, then you might have a chance at putting that much out. By then you will have spent like a billion anyway.* plz show me a NH setup tanking 1600dps It's not problem really, unless you are nosfed. That's with active tank: 6x dg heavy gist XL xtpe, pith b-type amp, 2x dg invul, em hardener(61%+) 3x dg bcu, 2x ts pdu(get officer for perma tank) 2x cap size rigs Won't really run perma, but it can run on auto near 5minutes from full cap. That will tank 1.6k dps without crystal implants. (resists are all above 81%, without gang mods) Wtf I actually fit monster tank of BS size on BC with what used to be biggest weapon. Shield tank isn't overpowered. With passive tank, it might be doable: 3x L extenders, 2x dg invul 5x spr em rig, purger I'll do some math(not sure tbh)... after some number crunching... peak 168hp/s without gang. Maybe with resistance gang module (unsure on resists, if you get them over 87% it should be enough) that active tank is about 1200 dps tanked Is it? 950shield @ 3.3s ? (and 1 heavy nosf will ruin your day) Ups i forgot about vulture. For solo tank you need crystals, though. -------- .....
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:49:00 - [29] Originally by: LUKEC ouch... i used t1 spr in calculations instead of t2. Not that i plan to buy 80mil mods :P Anyway, what good use does that setup have, akita? Just tank for sake of it? They'll go down pretty soon, I expect them to be under 20 mil within a month and stabilize around 10 mil later on. For PvP, I can only guess it will have limited uses, as extra firepower that's guaranteed to go down VERY HARD (in other words, no point focusing on it first). Certainly not a boat for solo PvP (needs tacklers) and certainly not the cheapest alternative (Raven would be much better overall, less skill-intensive and much cheaper), but there are advantages to ships that might survive any type of DD blast and be like brand new in about 2 minutes. As for non-PvP alternatives, there are loads of uses for such a setup... AFK missioning, solo complexing and so on, for instance, and not only that. _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.02.05 16:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio A scorpion can tank just as well for less isk. Really ? Show me ONE Scorpion fiting that can do this Quote: You'd get 16642 shield recharge in ~122.8 seconds, or a peak recharge of 338.67 per second, with 66.91/70.00/71.88/77.50 resists. Alpha EM/Expl/Kin/Therm: 50k/55k/59k/74k DPS soaked: 1023/1128/1204/1505 ...still deal over 300 (kin) DPS, and be at least marginally NOS-proof (zero cap usage on the NH setup btw). _ MySkills \| Module/Rig stacknerfing explained

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