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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4790
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Posted - 2016.02.26 07:59:07 -
[1] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/evelopedia-shutdown-2016-02-29-09-00/
Guess that it makes sense.
First they removed the abbility to listen to the game's music with ingame tools.
Then they removed the abbility to get game help from inside the game.
Now they're removing the only company-developed information resource on the game functions and lore.
EVE Online: with no user manual! No ingame support! And now without developer documentation on any damn thing in the game!
Oh yes, the lore stuff will be relocated somewhere, sometime, somehow, yadda yadda yadda. Not a high priority, is it?
And they've been very careful to consider it before handling all relevant documentation and information work to players, too. It's not as if a software developer had any responsibility in documenting the software it releases to customers, does it?
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Mag's
Azn Empire
21333
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Posted - 2016.02.26 08:08:55 -
[2] - Quote
Are you really surprised? Look at the whole forum debacle. Couldn't be bothered to port the history that came with the old forum, because :EFFORT:. That may also be lost at some point.
This is just more of the same. Soulless.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
129
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Posted - 2016.02.26 08:41:23 -
[3] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Are you really surprised? Look at the whole forum debacle. Couldn't be bothered to port the history that came with the old forum, because :EFFORT:. That may also be lost at some point.
This is just more of the same. Soulless. Well they do mention the alternatives:
CCp Falcon wrote:With the introduction of the new Help Center and the ever developing Flight Academy project from our Customer Support Team, as well as the amazing (and far more up to date) player run wikis out there such as the EVE University Wiki and the Brave Newbies wiki, plus the availability of more up to date static data from the EVE Universe via CREST, we feel that the EVElopedia's life cycle has run its course, and it is now time to move on from hosting it.
It is not like you will be left with nothing. They said in the second last o7 show that they will expand on the Flight academy. I personally never used EVElopedia as I did not like the format and found it often outdated, for example finding the hull boni information. I instead used EVE uni, which is more up to date.
For an example compare : EVElopedia UniWikia
I know which one I find more informative. So I don't see the problem tbh?
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Mag's
Azn Empire
21333
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Posted - 2016.02.26 08:58:56 -
[4] - Quote
Agreed, lazy.
Also it's either bonus, or bonuses.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Arkoth 24
Phayder
61
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Posted - 2016.02.26 09:00:24 -
[5] - Quote
I'm totally against EVElopedia shut down.
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty outdated, but lack of users support is not a fault of the project or CCP team.
For two years i used EVElopedia from in-game Help menu when a was looking for quick info on some sites, object and lore stuff. Replacing it with 3rd-party wikias will not help newcommers to make their first steps in New Eden.
Really bad idea. If someone would be interested in making some sort of public petition - i'll totally support it. |

Davos Seaworth
Seaworth Capital Expenditure
2
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Posted - 2016.02.26 09:26:48 -
[6] - Quote
I don't know.. 3 CCP devs are gone... closing the wiki.... squeezing money of player base.... signs of a sinking ship, if I worked at CCP EVE division I would start throwing resumes around. |

Chopper Rollins
Lantean Empire
1252
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Posted - 2016.02.26 09:39:55 -
[7] - Quote
These actually are signs of a sinking ship.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2289
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Posted - 2016.02.26 09:42:33 -
[8] - Quote
Davos Seaworth wrote:I don't know.. 3 CCP devs are gone... closing the wiki.... squeezing money of player base.... signs of a sinking ship, if I worked at CCP EVE division I would start throwing resumes around. Agree. Hey, even your avatar looks really worried!
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
245
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Posted - 2016.02.26 09:53:25 -
[9] - Quote
I'm constantly shocked at the fact that CCP seem perfectly happy to let players do their work for them. For example people have been using out of game fitting tools all along, it doesn't make the game look finished when you need to use 3rd party programs. This closing of evelopedia doesn't surprise me anymore, if the Devs can get a similar end product out of us players without doing any work then they'll take the chance. It's just a good thing we have had such a dedicated community because I can't imagine CoD players writing countless websites on lore and mechanics, and CCP don't seem to want to either.
I know this is supposed to be a sandbox where we make the content but surely we're not supposed to make everything else too?
A case for more AoE in EvE
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u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
721
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Posted - 2016.02.26 09:55:48 -
[10] - Quote
Davos Seaworth wrote:I don't know.. 3 CCP devs are gone... closing the wiki.... squeezing money of player base.... signs of a sinking ship, if I worked at CCP EVE division I would start throwing resumes around.
If the ship is sinking and they are squeezing money, then why are they buying new hardware (TQ Tech 3) and investing in it? Employees come and go, that's no sign of anything too.
The game is changing sure, but you are not the first one to say "EVE is dying". Nothing and no one lasts forever, but the question is how long will EVE live? I just don't think it's time will come anytime soon. |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25958
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Posted - 2016.02.26 11:13:11 -
[11] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:I'm constantly shocked at the fact that CCP seem perfectly happy to let players do their work for them. For example people have been using out of game fitting tools all along, it doesn't make the game look finished when you need to use 3rd party programs. That practice harks back to the early days of home computing and associated gaming when games were left to the player to figure out, any instructions that accompanied them were very basic; anything more normally meant a primitive form of DRM like LensLok was being used.
CCP aren't alone in doing it, user created help resources are nearly always better than the official ones.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope Gallente Federation
2613
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Posted - 2016.02.26 11:27:43 -
[12] - Quote
Expected the usual "Eve is dying" and "Eve is sinking" thread posts. Left satisfied.
The beginning of the End
Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5899
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Posted - 2016.02.26 12:32:38 -
[13] - Quote
Davos Seaworth wrote:I don't know.. 3 CCP devs are gone... closing the wiki.... squeezing money of player base.... signs of a sinking ship, if I worked at CCP EVE division I would start throwing resumes around.
3 devs of how many?
And do you know how many devs have joined CCP over the last year? Of course not, because no-one pays attention to that. They just want to whine and whine about people leaving.
In other news:
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/evelopedia/index.php/Main_Page
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1826
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Posted - 2016.02.26 12:48:34 -
[14] - Quote
Eh, big deal. The player run wikis are better resources anyway. |

Davos Seaworth
Seaworth Capital Expenditure
5
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Posted - 2016.02.26 13:35:09 -
[15] - Quote
Im not saying CCP is dying. They just landed a big investment, what im saying is that they are cutting EVE Online resources and squeezing money from it to try make something else. It wouldn't surprise me that all that new T3 hardware is to push Valkyrie and very little gets used for EVE. Think about it... CCP the company is a one hit wonder.... after a while they just dont want to play the same tune anymore... But dont get me wrong I love this game and have actually spent a good chunk of my entertainment money on it i dont want to see it dwindle away. The amount of lore in there is significant and all that being swept away is disturbing... I think they dont give a f*k anymore about EVE and are praying for Valkyrie to be a hit. |

Circumstantial Evidence
260
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Posted - 2016.02.26 14:01:52 -
[16] - Quote
While it's a shame CCP has not funded a documentarian to follow the game designers around and keep the EVElopedia up to date, its an immense relief to know the state of the game as it was recorded there, won't be forgotten. Thanks so much for hosting an archive! |

Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1827
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Posted - 2016.02.26 14:44:54 -
[17] - Quote
Davos Seaworth wrote:Im not saying CCP is dying. They just landed a big investment, what im saying is that they are cutting EVE Online resources and squeezing money from it to try make something else. It wouldn't surprise me that all that new T3 hardware is to push Valkyrie and very little gets used for EVE. Think about it... CCP the company is a one hit wonder.... after a while they just dont want to play the same tune anymore... But dont get me wrong I love this game and have actually spent a good chunk of my entertainment money on it i dont want to see it dwindle away. The amount of lore in there is significant and all that being swept away is disturbing... I think they dont give a f*k anymore about EVE and are praying for Valkyrie to be a hit.
They aren't cutting a resource, they're recognizing that their own Eve wiki is incredibly inferior to the player run ones and instead putting the effort to maintain it towards developing new resources such as Flight Academy.
The lore is getting it's own special dedicated website. It's not as if its just evaporating into nothingness.
The new server is for Eve. Valkyrie has it's own dedicated hardware that should already be in place for the launch of the Rift in March. The games work in significantly different ways so the hardware likely can't cross the two anyway.
Of course they want the game to be a hit. I'd like to see it be a hit as a fan.
You're completely disregarding the amount of work that's been done to Eve over the past year and completely ignoring the major work that is planned for release in the future just so you can say they don't care anymore. That's your problem to deal with.
CCP has been a one hit wonder for over a decade and, amazingly, have survived. They even set a company record for profit last year despite the major investment into developing the VR assets (yes, they got a sizable injection of cash to help with that, but still).
I think that about covers it. |

Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
202
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Posted - 2016.02.26 18:10:45 -
[18] - Quote
The EVElopedia has not seen too much input and editing from players as far as I can see. I tried adding some content to a page and it worked, so it is definitely a functional wiki. There is a restriction that the person must be logged on and have an EVE account in order to edit it. You cannot edit it anonymously.
The information on sites (DED/unrated) is much better than that on the uniwiki so it is too bad it is going away.
It is strange that the company thinks the site is a burden to maintain. I would think a wiki would be kind of an auto-pilot kind of thing. |

Kaivar Lancer
Federal Defense Union
731
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 18:13:02 -
[19] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:These actually are signs of a sinking ship.
Agreed. If they don't have the funds to even maintain a single wiki, things must be really bad at CCP. |

Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1072
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Posted - 2016.02.26 18:19:45 -
[20] - Quote
To bad but i can see why. |
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Annemariela Antonela
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
363
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Posted - 2016.02.26 18:30:53 -
[21] - Quote
This is the end.
We are doomed.
GÇ£Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.GÇ¥
GÇò Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
1086
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Posted - 2016.02.26 18:31:54 -
[22] - Quote
So, when a player puts in a support ticket about a game mechanic not working as it should, GMs are going to reference what precisely? A non-official Wiki that is fan supported, fan created, fan edited? And they expect that to be correct? |

Kaivar Lancer
Federal Defense Union
732
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Posted - 2016.02.26 19:41:58 -
[23] - Quote
They can't hire an Indian for $5k / year to maintain the wiki? You can outsource these menial tasks for peanuts. Just how cash-strapped is this company? |

Jagd Wilde
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.02.26 19:49:23 -
[24] - Quote
Doomed
Guess i started too late.
EvE R died.  |

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1104
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Posted - 2016.02.26 20:13:08 -
[25] - Quote
CCP always sucked at internet communication. In almost every regard. Who still remembers that player stories web project?
Remove insurance.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5907
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Posted - 2016.02.26 20:22:08 -
[26] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:They can't hire an Indian for $5k / year to maintain the wiki? You can outsource these menial tasks for peanuts. Just how cash-strapped is this company?
Not very. 20 million profit last year.(apparently)
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4799
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Posted - 2016.02.27 07:28:38 -
[27] - Quote
Droidster wrote:The EVElopedia has not seen too much input and editing from players as far as I can see. I tried adding some content to a page and it worked, so it is definitely a functional wiki. There is a restriction that the person must be logged on and have an EVE account in order to edit it. You cannot edit it anonymously.
The information on sites (DED/unrated) is much better than that on the uniwiki so it is too bad it is going away.
It is strange that the company thinks the site is a burden to maintain. I would think a wiki would be kind of an auto-pilot kind of thing.
Well, historically CCP has had issues with documenting stuff. Many of the issues with old code come from the fact that nobody documented it, so new developers must do a forensic examination and retroengineer it to figure what's going on and how to work with it. That is compounded by how most of the old code was written as stackless Python, which is a very flexible coding tool but also haves an habit of hiding everything within black boxes.CCP develeped EVE with too little people in too litle time and too little budget, and so they had to cut the effort. Documenting software takes away time from coding, so they went for fully coding and no documenting.
Fast forward 13 years. Development processes have changed, have evolved, but some things never were learned. Now CCP is using Agile development, which is a fast way to code but requires extensive control and documentation. So we must suppose that now with Agile develpment stuff gets documented internally, yet that's just a guess. Some Glassdoor reviews point that CCP's development still is chaotic and mismanaged to the point that sometimes a team will destroy the ongoing work of another team. That is related with other CCP issues, lack of middle mnagement and itnernla promotion (essential for agile development) and cliqueism (detrimental for everything skill related).
Enter customers/players. They don't need to know the code, just how to use it. That requires that someone CCP gathered all information of all teams working on code, plus backtraced every functioning system (undocumented) and its evolution (when and if and how was it updated) to establish a "image" of the status of the game in a given date. This, while the game keeps evolving at a frantic pace of change-of-the-month. It would be difficult since old undocumented code is old and undocumented, but would be the only way in which CCP could serve well the users of their software by providing an authoritative and updated source of information.
Regretfully, EVElopedia likely was "that guy's idea", which was implemented "back then" and once "that guy" quit, nobody ever looked onto it. Probably because it was -huh- undocumented.
Players also are disincentivized to document stuff; certain mechanics can be used for profit and advantage, and sharing them publicly would remove the advantage.The incentives for documenting "everything you kow" are small and probably nobody wants to share but the bare basics... and now they'll be certain that CCP won't go out explaining stuff like "how to set up an Alliance" (just to mention a real case I was involved with).
We can bet that the shiny-new-idea being implemented (flight acadamey or whatever) will cover just some of the basics, will never go any further with really old stuff and will languish over time since, hey, players already are doing a better job than CCP could bother itself to do...
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4771
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Posted - 2016.02.27 07:41:56 -
[28] - Quote
Well, while it was nice to have the wiki in my early days in the game I got most information from other sources. One paper I found a player had collected a bunch of data on stacking penalties then fitted some models and derived the equation that CCP used for stacking penalties. Rather impressive bit of work.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1950
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Posted - 2016.02.27 07:52:01 -
[29] - Quote
To be honest it's a resource I've actively avoided using for certain purposes due to often being incomplete and out of date. I remember when the tier 3 BCs were released and not being able to find any info on them for months. Then later the ship rebalances started kicking into gear. EVElopedia started having the same update issue on a much wider scale.
As a repository of info that didn't change very often if ever it does tend to have info which is useful and not present even in other wikis, but the lack of it going forward will likely see that info populated in other resources.
Sad to see it go for what it did have and for the lack of an official resource this creates, but not all that sad since the official resource was often not the best for many uses. Would prefer some more dedication to it, but I suppose this keeps the lack of updates from becoming misinformation from an official resource from another route.
Not sure I like the idea of flight academy videos being a replacement for easily searchable text resources on mechanics either... |

admiral root
Red Galaxy
3652
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Posted - 2016.02.27 08:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:They can't hire an Indian for $5k / year to maintain the wiki? You can outsource these menial tasks for peanuts. Just how cash-strapped is this company? Not very. 20 million profit last year.(apparently)
Pfff, get your darn facts out of this thread. Dont you know the sky is falling?
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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