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Mog Carns
Gallente
Industrial Warlords
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:10:00 -
[1]
I have read the basic primers of Armor tanking, and I can follow the general concepts. I still need to learn more.
Skills all at 3 or 4, Tech1 fittings. I was able to get 75/61/61/61 using 3 adaptive nanos and an energized explosive. Using 4 hardeners left me a worse hole in either explosive or EM, and my therm/kin resists were not but a few points higher. 2 medium reps and battlecruiser bonus were still unable to keep a t2 cruiser from ripping it apart without breaking a sweat.
Conceeding that I might need to get those skills to 4 and 5, maybe a T2 rep if it will fit... what else can you do to a T1 ship to give it decent resists?
Clueless Noob |
PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.06 15:50:00 -
[2]
Your resists look ok to me, and you seem to have the right idea. However, a T2 cruiser, I assume you're referring to a Heavy Assault? with a skilled pilot, should tear you up. After all, it takes a **** load of training to fly a HAC, plus with all T2 mods and resists of high 80's accross the board, they tank well too.
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Mog Carns
Gallente
Industrial Warlords
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.06 16:39:00 -
[3]
Not complaining about the loss. Just trying to gather what I can learn from it.
Clueless Noob |
mjolnir feaw
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.06 16:41:00 -
[4]
Let's face it: a T2 cruiser (HAC) have insane resists to start with and they even have more slots, grid and CPU than you do... If you're not convinced look at the market prices: HAC are a lot more expensive than your BC aren't they? And you can assume they are mostly T2 fitted most of the time.
Besides your tank looks ok but how's your gank?
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" There's no brave in a 5-to-1 fight. Just 5 cowards and a fool.
- Perhaps. But it worked didn't it?" |
Mog Carns
Gallente
Industrial Warlords
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:24:00 -
[5]
Gank is weak. I am learning tank first.
Clueless Noob |
system crashes
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Posted - 2007.02.06 17:33:00 -
[6]
Remember two things about tanking:
1. active > passive
2. 60% resists is only cutting the incoming damage by a little over 1/2. It's really not fantastic. But by 80%, you've now cut it to 1/5th.
Many PvP'ers I know will redo their tank for specific enemies, noting that gallente and amarr (typical pvp ships) are either thermal and em, or thermal and kinetic (I *think* I have that right).
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Mog Carns
Gallente
Industrial Warlords
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.06 18:55:00 -
[7]
You know, before I posted this, I questioned the value.
I am looking for the answer to a very exact question. How do I improve my resists, EXACTLY? This is not a request for a basic primer, I have read them extensively. I am not complaining because I lost, I expect to lose. Additionally, I fully understand the concept of general mathematics.
Using active hardeners, as I explained previously, gave me a slight increase in Thermal and Kinetic... from 61 to 66ish, but cost me about 10 points each in Explosive and Electromagnetic. This did not seem to be a good trade. Using T2 fittings give me another 2 or 3 points on resist, but hardly enough to justify the cost or fitting increase.
I do not know how to get 80% resists. If I did, I would not be here asking that exact question. I keep seeming to peak in the low 60s no matter what I try. I am unwilling to leave a large resists hole as a great number of enemies are Caldari and Minmatar, able to dial in the damage of their choice. In fact, had it been a Gallente or Amarr I had faced, the battle might have been different. I had 4 medium NOS going, that might had had some impact against such a foe. Against what I expect was a passive tanked, missile spewing Cerebus, it did not work out nearly so well.
Clueless Noob |
PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.06 20:21:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: system crashes
Remember two things about tanking:
1. active > passive
Im not sure I agree with that. With the power of NOS combined with Amarr recons, an active tank can be made redundant very quickly. If you train up your armor comp skills and run a passive tank, you can reach similar resistances and be NOS proof. Granted you cant rep with no cap, but you can stay alive a lot longer. Maybe even enough to kill your attackers.
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.07 09:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mog Carns
I have read the basic primers of Armor tanking, and I can follow the general concepts. I still need to learn more.
Skills all at 3 or 4, Tech1 fittings. I was able to get 75/61/61/61 using 3 adaptive nanos and an energized explosive. Using 4 hardeners left me a worse hole in either explosive or EM, and my therm/kin resists were not but a few points higher. 2 medium reps and battlecruiser bonus were still unable to keep a t2 cruiser from ripping it apart without breaking a sweat.
Conceeding that I might need to get those skills to 4 and 5, maybe a T2 rep if it will fit... what else can you do to a T1 ship to give it decent resists?
Try dropping one of the adaptive nanos and fitting a damage controle unit. Buy the best you can afford.
IMO DCU's should be standard fit on all armor tanks.
Once you start using it you will never look back.
F4T4L - Recruitment |
Kua Burrow
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Posted - 2007.02.07 16:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mog Carns
I have read the basic primers of Armor tanking, and I can follow the general concepts. I still need to learn more.
Is there an armour tanking guide out there?
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Mog Carns
Gallente
Industrial Warlords
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.07 20:55:00 -
[11]
The Guides
Clueless Noob |
Kua Burrow
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Posted - 2007.02.07 21:51:00 -
[12]
There's only one tanking guide there and I've read that. There seems to be a few shield specific guides but I haven't come across an armour one.
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PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.07 22:31:00 -
[13]
Give me a shout in-game, and i'll help you out where i can.
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Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.07 23:00:00 -
[14]
You need one of two things for a pvp armor tank
1) Cap booster and lots of reps (or an oversized rep)
2) Just resists and HP
For example, a very good domi tank is
2x EANM II
1x DC II
3x 1600mm rolled tungston
1x whatever (can be a rep, can be more plate.. whatever you want to do).
The 2 EANM II + 1 DC II combo is a very nice one. Of course the cheapie version is 2 EANM I, 1 DC I. Switching the 3rd EANM to a DC only loses you 5-8% on your resists.. but you gain 50-60% on your hull.. which is a huge difference expecially on something like a domi with 9000 structure.
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PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.08 12:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tunajuice
You need one of two things for a pvp armor tank
1) Cap booster and lots of reps (or an oversized rep)
2) Just resists and HP
For example, a very good domi tank is
2x EANM II
1x DC II
3x 1600mm rolled tungston
1x whatever (can be a rep, can be more plate.. whatever you want to do).
The 2 EANM II + 1 DC II combo is a very nice one. Of course the cheapie version is 2 EANM I, 1 DC I. Switching the 3rd EANM to a DC only loses you 5-8% on your resists.. but you gain 50-60% on your hull.. which is a huge difference expecially on something like a domi with 9000 structure.
That aint too hot dude. You have a lot of hitpoints there, but not good resists. A huge hole in explosive resistance, and no reps!!!
This is how I would tank a domi....
2x LAR II
1x Explosive Hardener
1x Kinetic Hardener
1x Thermic Hardener
1x EANM II
1x DCU II
High resists, and it can rep real nice too.
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Dracorimus
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.08 13:02:00 -
[16]
My advice, train all of your Armor Compensation skills to level 5.
On your ship you can then put 2 x EANM II and 1 more (T2 energized) of the ships weakest resist.
For instance most ships have a weakness to explosive on armor so therefore you would fit 2 x EANM II and 1 Energized Reactive Membrane II.
Lets just say like this my Sacrilege is almost godlike  Same for my Dura-Maller
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Bacarday
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Posted - 2007.02.08 13:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: system crashes
1. active > passive
Not if you know or can pick your enemy. Then passive tanking rules.
Quote:
Gank is weak. I am learning tank first.
Sounds like you have an role-playing goal here... the anti-gank tank. Unfortunately that's not going to happen.. no matter how hard your tank there is a gank that can break it... with the exception of frigates.
Frigs can be taken out at range, but can warp before anything with range locks. Their tanks are based on speed... the ability to generate traversal velocity by closing distance while orbiting. So a group of crows will pretty much pwn anything if coordinated as one body.
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Silmenel
Otaku Holdings
Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.02.08 13:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mog Carns
Skills all at 3 or 4, Tech1 fittings. I was able to get 75/61/61/61 using 3 adaptive nanos and an
Conceeding that I might need to get those skills to 4 and 5, maybe a T2 rep if it will fit... what else can you do to a T1 ship to give it decent resists?
exactly that - train up the skills, use better modules (tech2/named/faction mods)
there are also implants (that is hardwirings to be exact) that are useful but I don't know if those are worth the money as you will soon loose those in PvP 
_______
WTS Sabre & Fenrir |
Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.08 13:18:00 -
[19]
T2 reps are pretty much mandatory in any case; but you should consider fitting a large plate (e.g. 1600mm). You can estimate how useful both are in terms of how many rep cycles it takes to repair the armor given by the plate - this is often quite a long time, so the plate gives you a better tank until you kill the enemy.
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Mog Carns
Gallente
Industrial Warlords
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.08 13:44:00 -
[20]
No, it means I am friggen noob with limited skill points and I have been spending them on the tanking side as of yet. I have 2.3 million SP thus far, I have been playing since Thanksgiving.
Base Learnings to 4.
Electronics 4
Engineering 3
Energy Grid 3
Energy Systems 4
Energy Managment 3
Leadership 4
Armored Warfare 1
Science 4
Battlecruiser 3
Battleship 1
Gal Cruiser 4
Gal Frigate 4
Destroyer 2
Starship Command 4
Repair Systems 3
4x Armor Compensations to 3
Mechanic 4
Hull Upgrades 4
Controlled Burst 3
Gunnery 4
Medium Hybrid 3
Small Hybrid 3
Motion Prediction 3
Rapid Firing 1
Sharpshooter 2
Weapon Upgrades 1
Combat Drone 3
Drone Durability 3
Drone Interfacing 4
Drone Navigation 5
Drone Sharpshooting 4
Drones 5
Heavy Drone 1
Mining Drone 1
Repair Drone 1
Scout Drone 4
Sentry Drone 1
I started life with Heavy drone skills, and given the low number of starter drone ships, I continued to build on them. I have a lot of other skills of no importance, for no reason other than I didn't know I didn't need them, and my Navigation skills are all very bad.
I can use drones very well for PvE, but I haven't really figured out how to use them effectively in PvP. They seem too easily dealt with. My Gunnery skills are still weak.
Now, I am not so much of a noob that I am likely to fall for the plate plan. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that they do nothing but slow your ship and give you one, maybe two more hits, period, and do NOTHING for you once those first hits are scored. You would use a plate if you were going to be one shotted, before your repairer could kick in... otherwise, they are pointless. If I am missing something, fill me in, but I don't think so.
From this thread, I am gathering that my resists are just about as good as it is possible to be on a T1 ship, within a few percentage points. I need a few more points in BC and Repair to make my repairer work a bit faster, then it is off to Gunnery school. My understanding is that T2 guns, because they can use T2 ammo, are heads and shoulders better than T1 guns. Is this correct? If so, that is worth the investment. What is so special about T2 ammo?
Clueless Noob |
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Kua Burrow
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Posted - 2007.02.08 14:20:00 -
[21]
What is EANM and LAR?
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PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.08 15:15:00 -
[22]
LAR = Large Armor Repairer
EANM = Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
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