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Solidarity PLEX - or - What kind of EVE do we want to live in?

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zluq zabaa Inhumanum Legionis Black.Coffee 1	Posted - 2016.03.02 12:21:07 - [1] - Quote One of the most common posts in the recent downtime-threads was: "I payed, so I want it to work right naooo (+ include random rant here)". I found this, while partly understandable, an extremely unfriendly behaviour towards the people who work for CCP. It's a sad reality of the service sector that people who pay some kind of money, as little as it might be, suddenly feel as if - for once in their lifetime - they're little kings and queens and have the right to treat others like their subordinates. I never quite decided wether I find this more funny, as in embarassing for the people who behave this way or plain bad, because it can not feel good to hear that too often (and not even being allowed to smack back, because it is your job to deal with assholes). Well anyway, this whole "i pay, i play" thing got me thinking about social inequality in EVE. A thing I would like everyone to consider is real-life economics. I've had some EVE friends leaving the game because they couldn't afford to pay for it anymore, because they live and work in parts of the world that are shaken by financial crises to an extent ungraspable for most of the playerbase. While 10 bucks a month equals two cappucinos for one, it means food for a week for the other. Please keep that in mind: If you stomp people into the ground, some might just stay there and experience the same thing they experience in their everyday life: being on the wrong side of an unjust economical system. I for my part hate the idea that people have to quit the game because they can't afford to pay the subscription anymore, while others have no problem to pay for several accounts and buy the occasional PLEX on top of that. EVE reflects the real world in many ways, but for the sake of the "new" in New Eden, I'd like to see people without much income to actually have a chance to be a part of it. I know it's no-ones personal fault to have more money, but vice versa it isn't anyones personal fault to have less. If you're well-off and thinking now "I've made it with hard work, others can make it to", please check the reality. Hard work alone doesn't make people more wealthy, having a good head-start (money, education, country, social class) does. So here is, what I would like to see: some solidarity beyond the notions of standing, corp, alliance and all that.* Let us create a pool of people who are willing to give a one-time or regular contribution in the form of ISK - any amount really - to see if we can fund some peoples account, who can't afford it (anymore). Hence, a scratch of a roadmap: 1. Find a community-trusted player who is willing to take in contributions 2. Work out criteria to be eligble to get a Solidarity PLEX 3. Set up control mechanisms to ensure against misuse, scams and so forth (possibly ask CCP to support on this one) 4. Work out an easy way to apply for solidarity 5. Same for an easy way to decide Any ideas? Anyone likes to join? * I know, this goes against everything many people teached themselves in EVE. Why should you help people who might later shoot down your ship, who might at another point cross your plans? Well, because then you need to use your brains as well instead of your real life advantage in the form of money.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2545	Posted - 2016.03.02 12:25:25 - [2] - Quote tl;dr - wants rich people to pay for poor people to play eve FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Lina Sovereign Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis 9	Posted - 2016.03.02 12:31:25 - [3] - Quote Ahahah.. very funny. It's life, no money no funny. You don't have money? Get your fingers out of your a** and do something of your life. And yes, I pay so I can protest if i'm unhappy... (I love that btw)
Arkoth 24 Phayder 99	Posted - 2016.03.02 12:31:56 - [4] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: Hence, a scratch of a roadmap: 1. Find a community-trusted player who is willing to take in contributions And so the whole idea come to ruin right from step #1.
Aviola von Yodalgut Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2016.03.02 12:34:49 - [5] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: So here is, what I would like to see: some solidarity beyond the notions of standing, corp, alliance and all that.* Let us create a pool of people who are willing to give a one-time or regular contribution in the form of ISK - any amount really - to see if we can fund some peoples account, who can't afford it (anymore). Hence, a scratch of a roadmap: 1. Find a community-trusted player who is willing to take in contributions 2. Work out criteria to be eligble to get a Solidarity PLEX 3. Set up control mechanisms to ensure against misuse, scams and so forth (possibly ask CCP to support on this one) 4. Work out an easy way to apply for solidarity 5. Same for an easy way to decide Any ideas? Anyone likes to join? * I know, this goes against everything many people teached themselves in EVE. Why should you help people who might later shoot down your ship, who might at another point cross your plans? Well, because then you need to use your brains as well instead of your real life advantage in the form of money. It won't work. There are many people that will try and to gain when they have no right to. Just look at all the false insurance claims, some people even try to claim cash backs from companies even when they haven't purchased anything. So how will you know who is actually deserving (I know 'deserving is highly debateable, but for arguments sake lets go with it) from those that would apply. How would you check? It's just not practical. But if you have a friend that can't play nothing stopping you giving them a PLEX.
Demolishar United Aggression 1074	Posted - 2016.03.02 12:46:00 - [6] - Quote By the time someone is so lacking in enthusiasm that they cannot pay for their account either by grinding or paying the monthly fee, giving them a PLEX is pointless. They will just continue with the same lack of enthusiasm and quit once that month is up. I've donated PLEX to several friends in the past and it always goes the same way.
Raith Crimson Black Water Oasis The Blood Covenant 20	Posted - 2016.03.02 12:57:17 - [7] - Quote I think the game is very enjoyable on every level. Cant afford to play with the big dogs ? Then engage with some of the less expensive content. Edit: Pro Tip:- Stop paying for your game play with PLEX. Just put up a 1 year subscription and use your isk in the game for the game instead. You'll enjoy yourself much more. Trust me ilearned the hard way. Not going back to plexing no way no how. Plexing is pure self en-slavement. my ideas are my own and have no reflection on the ideas of my current corp / alliance. excuse my terrible typing.
zluq zabaa Inhumanum Legionis Black.Coffee 2	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:06:38 - [8] - Quote Quote: And yes, I pay so I can protest if i'm unhappy... (I love that btw) Well, there is not one thing I pay for with the main motivation being that I can harass people if things don't always work out. But yeah, if that is your thing, why not. Which kind of implies you don't give much about the game itself and you'll just look for little things to clinge on, so you can "protest". Btw, do you pay taxes? Do you protest about everything you don't like, that is somehow connected to the use of said taxes? (I personally think that CCP is a shining example how game development should be embedded within the community. To honour that I'd say we as players need to show a certain kind of responsibility towards the brave people who show their faces and step forward saying: I'm open to your critique. You can always prove me wrong by making Youtube videos of yourself in which you speak out your rants, so that you show the same kind of courage that CCP Devs are showing. ;) ) Quote: Cant afford to play with the big dogs ? Then engage with some of the less expensive content. Raith Crimson I agree with what you say about plexing. That's exactly the point why people who can't afford to pay for the game shouldn't automatically be regarded to plex for it. I mean, if you could pay for it, but decide not to, that's a different story. And I admit it will be difficult to find that criteria: who could afford it, but lacks motivation (as Demolishar wrote - btw. I've seen similar things as you describe) - who would like to afford it, but seriously can't bring up the 120 bucks per year. I say, let's help those guys out, if we can. Let's each give 10M ISK a month, so we can keep some fellows around. In the end it will create more content for everyone. Quote: So how will you know who is actually deserving (I know 'deserving is highly debateable, but for arguments sake lets go with it) from those that would apply. How would you check? It's just not practical. I'm not 100% sure, that's why I asked for ideas. My guess was a mixture of several criteria, something like: has been active for a certain amount of time + shares api (e.g. check if they have billions and billions in assets which they could sell a part of) + help of CCP (similar to CSM background checks) + possibly something like activity evaluation (do they actually do stuff in eve or just rotate their ships all day in the station). What do you think? If CCP would allow it, we could even transform PLEX into time for another player, so that there is no option to try scamming to sell that PLEX. Quote: And so the whole idea come to ruin right from step #1. Lol yeah. Guessed so. Isn't there this Chribba guy that everyone seems to know? Obviously the person getting the ISK wouldn't be included in the decision who gets it. Quote: tl;dr - wants rich people to pay for poor people to play eve Thanks mate, good shortening skills, although not totally accurate in this case. Anyway since you're probably rather rich in-game, maybe you could give a tiny amount once in a while. For 200% of the average amount you might get to even include the "FETID is recruiting" thingy as an advertisement. How bout that eh?
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 11066	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:19:03 - [9] - Quote EVE is a game. Games are a luxury. Luxuries are, by definition, not essential to sustaining life. That's a no from me, by the way. Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
Paranoid Loyd 8561	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:31:00 - [10] - Quote The game costs less than $1/day to play. If your financial situation is any where near not being able to afford that, you shouldn't be spending your time playing video games. Fix the Prospect!

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 13750	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:32:59 - [11] - Quote Social Inequality? I could have sworn I typed https://forums.eveonline.com/ a second ago. But some how, I ended up at MSNBC.... What kind of EVE do I want to live in? The one where people figure out things for themselves and decide if they like it or not, all the while remembering it's a game (ie something they don't have to do) and leaving their real life political BS and whining about 'injustice' at the door.
Josef Djugashvilis 3329	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:35:12 - [12] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: EVE is a game. Games are a luxury. Luxuries are, by definition, not essential to sustaining life. That's a no from me, by the way. I suspect that some players will be surprised to find that the game is not essential to sustaining life This is not a signature.
Elinarien Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:47:23 - [13] - Quote If I were so poor that -ú10 was make or break between eating or not, then not being able to pay to play a computer game would be the last of my worries. Indeed I find it rather patronising considering the player in question would need to fund a reasonably up to date computer & internet connection and have the spare time in order to play. Perhaps there are other first world problems the OP can worry about.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2547	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:51:05 - [14] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: Thanks mate, good shortening skills, although not totally accurate in this case. Anyway since you're probably rather rich in-game, maybe you could give a tiny amount once in a while. For 200% of the average amount you might get to even include the "FETID is recruiting" thingy as an advertisement. How bout that eh? im far from rich but ill happily give isk to people who refer possible recruits over to me FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 11067	Posted - 2016.03.02 16:57:29 - [15] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: zluq zabaa wrote: Thanks mate, good shortening skills, although not totally accurate in this case. Anyway since you're probably rather rich in-game, maybe you could give a tiny amount once in a while. For 200% of the average amount you might get to even include the "FETID is recruiting" thingy as an advertisement. How bout that eh? im far from rich but ill happily give isk to people who refer possible recruits over to me I would like to refer myself to FETID, can I get a bonus? Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
Jenshae Chiroptera 2607	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:13:39 - [16] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: The game costs less than $1/day to play. If your financial situation is any where near not being able to afford that, you shouldn't be spending your time playing video games. 10.00 GBP = 219.605 ZAR British Pound Gåö South African Rand I will readily admit that I don't know the value of that any more as I don't live there any longer. However, at one point, I was earning R 5 000 a month, spending some 2 000+ on renting a two bed room house, 150-200 a week on groceries and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. R 500 on a cell phone connection to the Internet and then looking at another week of groceries for a game subscription. This all looks fine as a budget, until you throw in all those hidden costs to life, such as going to a doctor or dentist, new pair of glasses, your medical insurance, paying the local armed security extortion rackets and so forth. The exchange rate can be extremely significant even to a comfortable life and job. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because... EVE is becoming shallow and childish; it will not satisfy either crowd.
CompleteFailure DAWGS Corp. Phoebe Freeport Republic 246	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:21:07 - [17] - Quote Can I please not get bombarded with all the social inequality crap in the Eve world like I do everywhere else? Can I just have this one little corner of my life where I'm not made to feel guilty about something? Please?
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 13753	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:31:44 - [18] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: ... and leaving their real life political BS and whining about 'injustice' at the door. Then stay off the forums, minimise local or hide the chat part of it and make your own closed little group of friends. I would rather not have someone like you trying to dictate what we can talk about. No one said someone can't talk about something. Someone is saying that what you're talking about is stupid. Quote: 10.00 GBP = 219.605 ZAR British Pound Gåö South African Rand I will readily admit that I don't know the value of that any more as I don't live there any longer. However, at one point, I was earning R 5 000 a month, spending some 2 000+ on renting a two bed room house, 150-200 a week on groceries and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. R 500 on a cell phone connection to the Internet and then looking at another week of groceries for a game subscription. This all looks fine as a budget, until you throw in all those hidden costs to life, such as going to a doctor or dentist, new pair of glasses, your medical insurance, paying the local armed security extortion rackets and so forth. The exchange rate can be extremely significant even to a comfortable life and job. As for trusted players, there are some like Chribba but they probably don't want all the administration work this would take. Also, when you can't find out who is a spy in EVE, how will you know someone has economic difficulties? A maid.... You can afford a maid but a game is hard to pay for... Some people are just cracked to all hell.
Lina Sovereign Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis 9	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:43:50 - [19] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: Quote: And yes, I pay so I can protest if i'm unhappy... (I love that btw) Well, there is not one thing I pay for with the main motivation being that I can harass people if things don't always work out. But yeah, if that is your thing, why not. Which kind of implies you don't give much about the game itself and you'll just look for little things to clinge on, so you can "protest". Btw, do you pay taxes? Do you protest about everything you don't like, that is somehow connected to the use of said taxes? I'm french, ranting / protest is a national sport here, we are the best... :) Taxes are necessary so I never protest about them. When we have incompetence (technical and communication), like the one who led us to almost two days of service interruption yeah I protest. (I'll skip the mylife text were I explain I'm an IT Consultant, we don't care.) They did crap... that's all. zluq zabaa wrote: (I personally think that CCP is a shining example how game development should be embedded within the community. To honour that I'd say we as players need to show a certain kind of responsibility towards the brave people who show their faces and step forward saying: I'm open to your critique. You can always prove me wrong by making Youtube videos of yourself in which you speak out your rants, so that you show the same kind of courage that CCP Devs are showing. ;) ) Brave ? My god... CCP is paid to do its job and so do the Devs. If you pay me I can manage to do fun Youtube movies. But you'll not like my prices.
Paranoid Loyd 8562	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:44:51 - [20] - Quote My general thoughts on all of his posts. Fix the Prospect!

Paranoid Loyd 8564	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:45:37 - [21] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Some people are just cracked to all hell. My general thoughts on all of his posts. Fix the Prospect!
Jacques d'Orleans The Scope Gallente Federation 2642	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:51:43 - [22] - Quote Lina Sovereign wrote: I'm french, ranting / protest is a national sport here, we are the best... :) THE two things the french gave the world: Fashion and attitude! The beginning of the End Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2645	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:53:32 - [23] - Quote #NOPOORS As in, if you are not willing to spend the sub cost or ISK cost of playing, you ahve no business beign ehre. Also, if the cost of the sub is putting you at risk of not feeding yourself or anything even remotely close to that, I don't want you to burn money on a god damn video games. Not being able to play EVE because you have to pay for food first is textbook definition of being a responsible human being.
Capsule Collector Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2016.03.02 17:57:07 - [24] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: I for my part hate the idea that people have to quit the game because they can't afford to pay the subscription anymore, while others have no problem to pay for several accounts and buy the occasional PLEX on top of that. Doesn't EVE already give them the tools to pay for their account without using RL money? The way I see it they have two options: 1. Pay RL money for subscription 2. Earn ISK in-game for subscription (FREE) If they aren't willing to do either of these, then I don't see why anyone should just hand them a freebie. FAIR WAGES FOR FAIR WORK
Lina Sovereign Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis 10	Posted - 2016.03.02 18:02:42 - [25] - Quote Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Lina Sovereign wrote: I'm french, ranting / protest is a national sport here, we are the best... :) THE two things the french gave the world: Fashion and attitude! Don't forgot gastronomy !
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 11068	Posted - 2016.03.02 18:09:53 - [26] - Quote Lina Sovereign wrote: Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Lina Sovereign wrote: I'm french, ranting / protest is a national sport here, we are the best... :) THE two things the french gave the world: Fashion and attitude! Don't forgot gastronomy ! ...and chauvinism! Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m! Bumble's Space Log
Pandora Carrollon Kingsman Tailors 74	Posted - 2016.03.02 18:10:13 - [27] - Quote First off, let's get a few things out of the way: EVE is a game and thus, by definition, is a luxury item EVE requires semi-decent computer hardware to run effectively EVE is made by a semi-small company based in ICELAND Social inequality is a concept based on perception and an assumption that equality is somehow obtainable So, some of you have already figured out the rest of my post at this point, you are dismissed. I say the following with a calm nature and a good lifetime of experience to back the words up, you don't have to believe any of it. If your game play will cost you/your family a weeks worth of food, you are a moron for playing it. It's a luxury (see item #1). Stop playing now and go find a way to improve your life to the point where EVE won't burden you. If you can afford the computer, internet connection, and power necessary to play EVE, the cost of EVE shouldn't be a burden to you, this is intrinsically linked to the previous point. The expectation that a small Icelandic game design company should invest time and its players resources, risking their ire, to search for a mythical 'unicorn' that somehow balances out all national economies against each other is beyond rational. Even nations have a really hard time finding balance against each other. Collectivism belongs to people that desire to practice it. Not everyone does. Financial, social and cultural inequality is something that, no matter how enlightened, cannot be obtained by human beings as long as they have human nature to contend with. Trying to tell other people how to live, what to do for sustenance, how much to pay for stuff, where to go, what to believe, almost ALWAYS ends in blood, tears and shattered lives. In the context of EVE, it would be a great way for CCP to lose quite a bit of its player base if it tried to do something like this. While I give the OP +1 for bravery in suggesting something like this, even thinly supported as it was; there is nothing good from tying a game to real life consequences or creating some kind of forced subsidy program between perceived haves and perceived have nots.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17527	Posted - 2016.03.02 18:12:35 - [28] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: tl;dr - wants rich people to pay for poor people to play eve That's what PLEX are in the first place, so...? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Jenshae Chiroptera 2607	Posted - 2016.03.02 18:37:05 - [29] - Quote Pandora Carrollon wrote: ... While I give the OP +1 for bravery in suggesting something like this, even thinly supported as it was; there is nothing good from tying a game to real life consequences or creating some kind of forced subsidy program between perceived haves and perceived have nots. Agreed. I can fully get behind a player initiative to help those less fortunate. I was even a bit down when that Goon didn't get a specialised wheel chair or vehicle from a voting contest. Jenn aSide wrote: A maid.... You can afford a maid but a game is hard to pay for... Some people are just cracked to all hell. It is a social responsibility in third world countries to hire unskilled labour. There tends to be more people than jobs. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because... EVE is becoming shallow and childish; it will not satisfy either crowd.
Mina Sebiestar Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate 1053	Posted - 2016.03.02 19:45:04 - [30] - Quote There are 30k accounts online daily (10k ppl?) I can live with 20-25 ppl acting like someone parked buldoser up their arse for a day or two theses forums are not a curate reflection of in game masses. I gave up isk in past when I was asked or just because, don't need a reason really. Typhoon Fleet Issue SOE skin for the win.

Ibutho Inkosi Irubo Kovu 212	Posted - 2016.03.02 20:01:42 - [31] - Quote An unfortunate fact of inequity in the real world is, affluent nations get games like these. "Developing" nations do not. It's like affluent nations get Cadillacs. "Developing" nations get Cadillacs on blocks. It is the nature of economic disparity. Trying to solve economic disparity by some charity foundation in a video game will only work out to getting PLEX for your buddies, but the remainder of the "developing" countries populations will still be going without. Anyone really interested in the fact their friends can't afford this sort of leisure activity due to economic imbalances is better off not playing any game, and working their lives away struggling for equity. It's the fact this struggle is now seen as futile or only pursued by suckers that the working population now lags further behind and out of the main economy than it has since the days of empires and kings. The kind of EVE I want has so much to do with the self-contained, Euro-centric western civ model there isn't any room for those who don't have ten dollars to feed themselves being accommodated at all. That's the nature of a winners and losers social paradigm. When developing countries decided to emulate the leaders in this "game" of economics, they preordained their own fates, and the money-grabbers laughed as they stood by and watched...then grabbed all the money. It's rather strange for us to try to discuss this in this venue. You might as well be asking for a charity back nine at the local country club. It ain't gonna happen. The whole point of the country club is to luxuriate in the perks of winning. In a sense I do sympathize with your friends. However, as I said, if they're in a place so strapped economically that the ups and downs of macro-economics takes food from their tables, they have better things to do than play this game...more pressing things. It takes someone of affluence to even propose this issue in this venue in this way. Like the guy in Platoon said, "You have to be rich to talk like that." If you think all this is unfair and inhumane...you have no business partaking in this perk of affluence. You should be out trying to effect a major shift in paradigm yourself...or it's just more "liberal" talk. Weep for the losers while you eat the peeled grapes. As long as the tale of the hunt is told by the hunter, and not the lion, it will favor the hunter.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2607	Posted - 2016.03.03 01:18:35 - [32] - Quote Ibutho Inkosi wrote: ... Trying to solve economic disparity by some charity foundation in a video game will only work out to getting PLEX for your buddies, ... "PLEX for good." "The world needs dreamers and the world needs doers. But above all, the world needs dreamers who do." - Sarah Ban Breathnach CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because... EVE is becoming shallow and childish; it will not satisfy either crowd.
Nerokor Machiavellian Empire Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2016.03.03 03:19:30 - [33] - Quote So if these said people can't afford to pay for said eve subscription. Then how do they afford to buy a computer to play eve on. If they can't afford a $15 subscription and have to worry about paying for food instead, they shouldn't be worried about eve honestly. I like you idea OP but, it's just not realistic.
Chopper Rollins Lantean Empire 1262	Posted - 2016.03.03 03:31:28 - [34] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: A thing I would like everyone to consider is real-life economics.. *RECORD SCRATCH* Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Rin Vocaloid2 DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2016.03.03 03:40:02 - [35] - Quote Or you could just... you know... donate PLEX directly yourself? If a player is rich enough to just hand out ISK and maybe PLEX like candy to help a fellow player in need, let them but I don't think we need to add any more features for that since we already have the tools to do just that.
Jacques d'Orleans The Scope Gallente Federation 2644	Posted - 2016.03.03 04:39:44 - [36] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: Hard work alone doesn't make people more wealthy, having a good head-start (money, education, country, social class) does. Having a good head start, gives you a better chance to get wealthy, sure, but the lame excuse "i'm poor and i had no good head start" and the always popular " It's societies fault that i'm poor" becomes boring pretty much, specially when you made it yourself out of that environment. If you're poor, you have to pull yourself out of the dirt, no knight in shiny armor will come to safe you, it's you and nobody else who can end your poverty! And no Plex from others will change that, it just sends the signal "Why changing anything myself, when others give me...", it's the social security system in a nutshell! The beginning of the End Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
Indahmawar Fazmarai 4832	Posted - 2016.03.03 07:33:00 - [37] - Quote EVE is a luxury, EVE is cheap and EVE can be paid for by playing it. The OP just set a new record in wackiness. Or trolling. CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now". 62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?" CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2016.03.03 08:18:49 - [38] - Quote On the point of collectivism, we have always existed as part of a society and hence as a collective you can't just choose to be involved or not. It is only relatively recently (50-90 years ago) that we started to believe we were all unique special snowflakes and individualism took off. Individualism can be blamed for most first world problems we see today in truth, big business and government does what it wants because there is no strong voice to tell them no. Another problem with individualism is that it becomes impossible to fix systemic problems when you blame individuals, just look at the mass shootings in the states. We have all seen in EvE the power there is in working together as a group and the reverse is also true; isolating yourself as an individual means you have very limited ability. Individualism is still going strong (especially in the USA) but with the rise of the internet,and especially social media, more and more people are realising that we're all human. Sure we all have little differences that make us who we are but we have more in common than not. We all have the same drives and for the most part our decisions are only based on outside pressure and past experiences. A little more education on how the brain actually works would make a big change to how we see the world. (Extreme) Social injustice is something that really does have no reason to exist in our man-made world. I'd also like to point out that our world economy is capable of providing food, housing and healthcare for everyone already if we'd just make that our priority instead of aiming for 2% growth each year. For many people they cant afford to play through no fault of their own (it's a lie that your success is your doing), and I'm sure that plenty already do unsub now and then when bills get too much. HOWEVER I see PLEX as the solution and it already exists so I don't know what more needs done. -1 OP A case for more AoE in EvE
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2551	Posted - 2016.03.03 10:26:34 - [39] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Lan Wang wrote: zluq zabaa wrote: Thanks mate, good shortening skills, although not totally accurate in this case. Anyway since you're probably rather rich in-game, maybe you could give a tiny amount once in a while. For 200% of the average amount you might get to even include the "FETID is recruiting" thingy as an advertisement. How bout that eh? im far from rich but ill happily give isk to people who refer possible recruits over to me I would like to refer myself to FETID, can I get a bonus? ofcourse bumble, you get the bonus of associating with me FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Max Fubarticus The Scope Gallente Federation 92	Posted - 2016.03.03 11:15:00 - [40] - Quote "Any ideas? Anyone likes to join?" Yes. Spare everyone the "Social Justice Warrior" speech. Put on the big boy pants and earn your way through life. No. "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7546	Posted - 2016.03.03 11:15:54 - [41] - Quote As someone that's been unable to afford my own subscription from time to time, I'm entirely against this idea. Let me tell you why. The world is fair, by virtue of being unfair. What's that, I hear you ask, the world contradicts itself? No, it doesn't, it gives you goals to strive towards and better yourself. EVE Online subscription fee is a goal; national financial stability is a goal; LIMITATIONS ARE GOALS, things to be overcome in order to achieve legitimate self-improvement. If you give a homeless guy money, how is he going to learn to earn his own? If the system is what's keeping him down, then giving him some money is little more than a bandaid. Your suggestion that we pay to support other people to play is a bandaid to problems that we cannot solve, and it's an unsustainable system as a result. The actual solutions to the problems are, in the case of legitimate systemic problems, systemic solutions, and in the case of individual problems, the solutions themselves are individual. Now, I have another point as well. EVE Online is not a necessity. The human body has no need for it, our inalienable human rights do not cover access to it, and there isn't a single social welfare system or private charity on the face of the planet that will cover it. It is a luxury. Which again brings us back to what makes it a goal. If someone really wants to play it, but can't afford it, suddenly they have a goal, and a limitation to overcome. That is on them, and no one else. As for the idiot above expatiating social relativistic propaganda, political opinions and commentary aren't welcome on these forums, thank you. And PLEX for good is not for political things either, Jenshae, but for non-partisan disasters only, like natural ones. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7546	Posted - 2016.03.03 11:19:46 - [42] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Social Inequality? I could have sworn I typed https://forums.eveonline.com/ a second ago. But some how by the looks of this thread, I ended up at Tumblr.... FTFY. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7546	Posted - 2016.03.03 11:22:20 - [43] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ...and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. The fact you could afford a maid automatically disqualifies you from complaining about the cost of living, sorry. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Beta Maoye 94	Posted - 2016.03.03 11:49:25 - [44] - Quote While I don't think poor people should have to work 12 hours a day without any entertainment, EVE is just too expensive for them if they cannot afford the monthly subscription. There are many other choices available:- read a good book, play a basketball game, play other free online games, watch news from CNN, RT, Euronews, CCTV to know what is happening outside, even watch what Trump is talking about is interesting for me. Do what you can afford to do.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2612	Posted - 2016.03.03 12:21:11 - [45] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ...and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. The fact you could afford a maid automatically disqualifies you from complaining about the cost of living, sorry. Forum ate my post, so the salient points: - Social responsibility - People with very little or no education - Sold TV, Hi-Fi, microwave and toaster at one point to ensure we paid our servant. The one servant we had for many years and came to us with the clothes on his back and a pregnant wife had a house with eight rooms (he rented four), had a corner shop, electrician, plumbing and tree felling businesses when we left. They become your dependants and you help them if you have them for the right reasons. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because... EVE is becoming shallow and childish; it will not satisfy either crowd.
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2646	Posted - 2016.03.03 13:53:25 - [46] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ...and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. The fact you could afford a maid automatically disqualifies you from complaining about the cost of living, sorry. Forum ate my post, so the salient points: - Social responsibility - People with very little or no education - Sold TV, Hi-Fi, microwave and toaster at one point to ensure we paid our servant. The one servant we had for many years and came to us with the clothes on his back and a pregnant wife had a house with eight rooms (he rented four), had a corner shop, electrician, plumbing and tree felling businesses when we left. They become your dependants and you help them if you have them for the right reasons. Those people exist in first world country too and it does not mean a luxury product like EVE Online needs to have it's cost setup according to this. Remember, it's a luxury product. If you consider it to be essential, you have a much bigger problem than the price of the game.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2612	Posted - 2016.03.03 14:11:03 - [47] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Those people exist in first world country too and it does not mean a luxury product like EVE Online needs to have it's cost setup according to this. Remember, it's a luxury product. If you consider it to be essential, you have a much bigger problem than the price of the game. Forget what ever you have latched onto in the original post. We the players can help other players. Quietly and without embarrassing them. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because... EVE is becoming shallow and childish; it will not satisfy either crowd.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 13759	Posted - 2016.03.03 15:09:51 - [48] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ...and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. The fact you could afford a maid automatically disqualifies you from complaining about the cost of living, sorry. Now now Remi, lets not stop his ranting about nonsense, especially now that he's in full "white man's burden" mode.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7548	Posted - 2016.03.03 15:21:21 - [49] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Remiel Pollard wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ...and R 800 for a maid to clean and do laundry two mornings a week. The fact you could afford a maid automatically disqualifies you from complaining about the cost of living, sorry. - Social responsibility One does not focus on social responsibility at the expense of personal responsibility. My social responsibility is fulfilled by my taxes, my job, the people I train to take over my job when I retire, and the various other contributions I may choose to make to society, such as things I might learn and/or discover and pass on to other academics. My personal responsibility is to prioritise my life in such a way that I can fulfill my own needs first, my own desires second, and my optional social contributions last. The fact that you felt you had to sell some of your basic things like your television so you could afford your maid was your own failure to prioritise, or alternatively, your own choice of prioritisation. A maid is entirely optional, and it is not your responsibility in any writ of law, or by any social expectation, to employ other people when you cannot afford to employ them. You cannot use someone else's personal responsibility to earn their living as a shield for your own failure of personal responsibility to prioritise your own finances. That is entirely your own fault, and your own choice to hire a maid over having a television. Don't try to play this social collectivist bullshit with me. I'm Australian, I'm pretty damned socialist already. The difference is, I understand the importance of a healthy balance between personal and social responsibility, just as I understand a healthy balance between socialist and capitalist economies. That healthy balance only occurs when the people living in and participating in that economy also understand their personal and social responsibilities in balance. At the end of the day though, it is not nor will it ever be my responsibility to help someone else afford a video game. And there is little I find more detestable than someone who tries to shame me with the expectation that I should be responsible for someone else's own failures. My original comment stands though. The fact you can afford a maid disqualifies you from complaining about the cost of living. That is not debatable. If you think it is, why don't you head on over to, say, Zimbabwe, or Somalia, and tell them all about how you're struggling so much you had to sell your tv so you could afford to keep a maid on your payroll. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 295	Posted - 2016.03.03 15:28:39 - [50] - Quote #feelthebern @lunettelulu7

Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2646	Posted - 2016.03.03 15:33:45 - [51] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Frostys Virpio wrote: Those people exist in first world country too and it does not mean a luxury product like EVE Online needs to have it's cost setup according to this. Remember, it's a luxury product. If you consider it to be essential, you have a much bigger problem than the price of the game. Forget what ever you have latched onto in the original post. We the players can help other players. Quietly and without embarrassing them. Who the hell is embarrassed by the fact they can't afford a luxury like EVE online? Most poor people I had contact with were too proud to even accept a free meal without giving me back some of the change they had gotten out of begging during the day and you are telling me embarrassing someone for begging for a damn luxury is bad?
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2552	Posted - 2016.03.03 15:39:27 - [52] - Quote 43mil a day for a month and you got a plex, not hard to make that much really is it? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7548	Posted - 2016.03.03 15:44:35 - [53] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: 43mil a day for a month and you got a plex, not hard to make that much really is it? Yeah but my maid costs so much that I had to sell my DED ship to afford her. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 13759	Posted - 2016.03.03 15:51:56 - [54] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: 43mil a day for a month and you got a plex, not hard to make that much really is it? There are only 1410 minutes in a standard EVE day (23.5 hours). How dare you suggest people spend 43 minutes ~~flying~~ AFKing an ishtar and killing rats or doing TWO lvl 4 missions in high sec in that same time span in exchange for the other 1367 minutes!?! Lan Wang is heartless to space-poors! I mean really, the obvious solution to the tragic injustice of people who can't afford 50 cents (U.S.) per day for frivilous entertainment (and yet by some miracle have a computer and internet connection) is handouts. Handouts do so well in real life, why not in EVE? p.s. F--- your sarcasm meters if they just exploded, I meant to do that.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2620	Posted - 2016.03.06 04:12:57 - [55] - Quote I pity whom ever is around you guys if your bubbles ever burst. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because... EVE is becoming shallow and childish; it will not satisfy either crowd.
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 695	Posted - 2016.03.06 09:20:13 - [56] - Quote In my corp we got a guy from Greece who has a hard time paying for game-time, so what we did was that we gave him ships and ressources so he can grind isk for PLEX.
Payne Dakara Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.03.07 16:17:52 - [57] - Quote Quote: One of the most common posts in the recent downtime-threads was: "I payed, so I want it to work right naooo (+ include random rant here)". I found this, while partly understandable, an extremely unfriendly behaviour towards the people who work for CCP. It's a sad reality of the service sector that people who pay some kind of money, as little as it might be, suddenly feel as if - for once in their lifetime - they're little kings and queens and have the right to treat others like their subordinates. I never quite decided weather I find this more funny, as in embarrassing for the people who behave this way or plain bad, because it can not feel good to hear that too often (and not even being allowed to smack back, because it is your job to deal with assholes). Why not CCP created a perfect game for people to give grief to each other, one that thrives on peoples grief what is the problem if their own subscribers return a little bit of that grief to CCP? Quote: because it can not feel good to hear that too often (and not even being allowed to smack back, because it is your job to deal with assholes) Try smacking back when your ganked in the game nope you can't beating and ******* are non returnable events. :D
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2651	Posted - 2016.03.07 16:31:28 - [58] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I pity whom ever is around you guys if your bubbles ever burst. What bubble?
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 1071	Posted - 2016.03.07 16:55:35 - [59] - Quote Socialism is for pussies. Man the **** up. Not today spaghetti.
zluq zabaa Inhumanum Legionis AXIOS. 7	Posted - 2016.05.27 12:22:40 - [60] - Quote If Socialism is for pussies: - it's where I want to be - is capitalism for dicks? If by "man up" in this context you mean that being a man means - to learn accept getting ****** over - to not use strenght to help yourself and others - to only to beat down on the weak, not resist the strong - striving for the quietness in injustice rather than for risk and adventure in liberation Well... What a pitiful, cowardly, servile existence you desire. Poor you.

Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14151	Posted - 2016.05.27 12:28:29 - [61] - Quote zluq zabaa wrote: If Socialism is for pussies: - it's where I want to be - is capitalism for dicks? If by "man up" in this context you mean that being a man means - to learn accept getting ****** over - to not use strenght to help yourself and others - to only to beat down on the weak, not resist the strong - striving for the quietness in injustice rather than for risk and adventure in liberation Well... What a pitiful, cowardly, servile existence you desire. Poor you. There is a Team America video about this subject that I so want to link, but it might get me permabanned :) . it really is too bad we can't talk politics here, because Zlug's post is a great example of the personality traits of those who follow that particular ideology.
Max Fubarticus The Scope Gallente Federation 114	Posted - 2016.05.27 13:06:27 - [62] - Quote ISD... Please close this SJW thread. It's an insult to Chimps. Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
zluq zabaa Inhumanum Legionis AXIOS. 7	Posted - 2016.05.27 15:24:40 - [63] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: There is a Team America video about this subject that I so want to link, but it might get me permabanned :) . it really is too bad we can't talk politics here, because Zlug's post is a great example of the personality traits of those who follow that particular ideology. Just for clarification: are you saying you have a good and valid argument, but CCP is hindering you to use it? By any means feel free to make your point other than suggesting something ungraspable (and thus non questionable) unless that was your goal all along.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 26168	Posted - 2016.05.27 17:25:45 - [64] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: There is a Team America video about this subject that I so want to link, but it might get me permabanned :) . it really is too bad we can't talk politics here, because Zlug's post is a great example of the personality traits of those who follow that particular ideology. I have a funny feeling that I know which video that is As for the subject matter, if you can't afford to pay a sub or are unwilling to put in the work to accrue the isk for a PLEX then you shouldn't be playing Eve. Eve is a luxury item, it satisfies no essential needs; moreover it's an intangible luxury item with no value beyond that of entertainment, which can be provided through other, cheaper and more tangible items such as books. I managed to keep my account active whilst unemployed, somebody in work should have no problem doing the same. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 7731	Posted - 2016.05.27 23:50:21 - [65] - Quote the only part of this subject that bothers me is every time there's some capfleet battle, someone in the media picks up the PLEX Cost - ISK Destroyed summary and makes it look like Eve players are a bunch of rich sh!tlords playing video games while women, children, minorities, and LGBT are dropping dead in the street right outside the house for lack of virtue signaling and funding and everything else that we should all feel guilty about every two seconds. Then I end up having to explain that no, this stuff never really cost any money and Eve players do not spend more than the cost of a sub or PLEX and there are many who seldom pay real $$ to play. As for paying for someone else's account - well as much as that would be a nice thing to do, unless there are individuals who choose to do it, there's no way to fairly provide it. That is, if they upped the cost of sub or PLEX to subsidize players, it would not be right. It's also not going to save anybody: if you can't afford a PLEX or sub, you probably can't afford the internet connection. And beyond that, who wants to subsidize someone sitting at a caf+¬ all day playing Eve on free wifi? Hey, get a job. Oh, no jobs? Overthrow your government. Oh, you live in a democracy? Have a civil war then. Oh don't want to do that? Well then you don't get to play games either. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Shayla Etherodyne Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord 75	Posted - 2016.05.28 06:44:06 - [66] - Quote Pool a few of your friends and give some isk/charity PLEX to people you know. or give them to some new player that positively impress you. Both options avoid the major pitfall of your idea: having to thrust someone decisions about who is deserving and who is not. Experienced players generally can earn the in game money to buy a PLEX (if they have the time to log to play long enough). In theory they shouldn't have too many problems staying subbed without the need to use RL cash. If they can't gather the money generally it is for lack game of time, giving them isks/PLEXes won't resolve that.
Snagletooth Scott The Scope Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2016.05.28 11:49:23 - [67] - Quote Vote the Op for CSM! FREE PLEX in every hanger. FREE ore in every belt....wait, no, the ore is already free. FREE Clone in every medbay. FREE insurance on every ship....except for the Titans, screw the 1%. FREE MattaniISK in every wallet FREE everything!
Lisbeth Riraille Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2016.05.28 12:51:24 - [68] - Quote This thread is pure gold. I especially like the South African dude turning his servants into landlords.
Sustrai Aditua Irubo Kovu 238	Posted - 2016.05.28 13:01:31 - [69] - Quote BWAAA HAAAA HAAAA HAAAA HAAAAA!!!! This a joke, right? If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Joe Un Order Collective Blades of Grass 0	Posted - 2016.05.30 04:52:38 - [70] - Quote All these socialist ideas rampant on earth are reaching the depths of space. We must make sure they never pass the new Eden gate so we can be safe from their guilt inducing indoctrination. Stand firm. You have worked hard for your right to party. Party on.



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