Originally by: jamesw

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Devs are people too

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Originally by: Anonymous Coward

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Edited by: Anonymous Coward on 07/02/2007 07:45:44

Originally by: Sinlare

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Indeed, grats to all paranoid whiners! you've ruined someone's fun in real life. Hope you sleep well at night.

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Yeah, damn those inconsiderate whistleblowers! If only they'd kept their mouths shut!

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Originally by: Merciless1

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Well said, That about sums everything up, although I must say I'm much more interested about who, what, and what affectis did it have than what charecters and public apologies.

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Originally by: Kai Gaivuuri

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T
Being open and telling what happened, why it happened and what are we gonna do in the future would help a lot. At the moment I can't believe what I am seeing. This is meant to be a game that is handled in a professional way. What the heck am I paying for? I pay for the devs so that they can develop the game and at the same time force me to bend over... thank you.

Being honest and straightforward would help the company the most. Otherwise people will whine, whine and continue to whine. Answering to every question is impossible but doing the best thing possible is a lot better than trying to ban those who ask for answers and want the honesty. Treat the players and especially yourselves by the rules.

I really thought I would never see this in a MMORPG that I pay for.

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Originally by: Niaski Zalani

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Originally by: SirMolle

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We play the game on a high level, we have a high profile, this isnt the first accusations of cheat, hax, and god knows what else that has been flung at us.

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Does that "high level" also include some of your membership threatening to DDoS the kugutsumen.com site? Because someone did threaten with it, and there have been a few attempts at it so far.

Could've been anyone really, so consider this one public notice; a) it won't work, b) if it works, it won't work for long, c) it'll have to involve law enforcement at some point, although that's not something I'd like to do, or d) I'll just handle it myself in which case the results won't be pretty.

(No, I'm not Kugutsumen, I'm just the guy that hosts his site. Guess I'll get ready for the thwack upside the head with the banstick now...)

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Originally by: Lyticus

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Edited by: Lyticus on 07/02/2007 09:44:59
I dont frequent the EVE-O message boards very often, usually because the standard of intelligent conversation is generally quite low. However, this situation calls for my comment and input since it affects me directly.

Kugutsumen was a friend of mine, and he's now had all his accounts banned. I understand that CCP reserves the right to do this under their TOS agreements. However, if EVE is truly the open-ended sandbox the developers claim it is, where you can scam, lie and cheat your way to the top, and as many do, then why has Kugutsumen been singled out in this case?

Did CCP need a scapegoat to blame this event on? Why not blame this fellow? He has ties to all the right corporations, he's been known for causing a bit of a forum uproar in the past, the perfect one to take the fall. Lets ignore the fact that it was in fact the developers fault for distributing sensitive information to their corpmates in the first place. If one of the BOB members who was in the know had leaked the information, would this situation have been treated differently?

Subversion and corp theft are commonplace in EVE, it makes sense that someone would create an intelligence based website where those who pay can obtain this kind of information from those who specialise in its retrieval.

So, I ask CCP, is this the beginning of a new wave?
Should I remove my alts from corporations which are there only to benefit myself?
Should my IPO scam be cancelled lest I risk a ban?

The other day, my alt was scammed by a new player for 5 million isk. I knew he was scamming me at the time, but it was an interesting experience and I taught him a few things on how to improve his tactics. In hindsight, should I have petitioned him? Will you give me my isk back, and give him a warning?

My viewpoint may of course be skewed since I know the person involved here, and all my facts may not be correct as I am not the forum warrior I once was, however, I hope that my points will be considered in the discussion.

In conclusion, is this turning into another World of Warcraft, CCP?

Make sure you let us know, so I can hang up my space boots in advance, I won't be coming along for that ride, thanks.

- Lyticus

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Originally by: Niaski Zalani

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Actually I host a paying customer. My work is quite separate from my in-game associations, but think what you will :D

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Originally by: Anonymous Coward

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Originally by: Sinlare

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Good to know that even in real life you support criminals.

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Ever heard of xs4all.nl? Same philosophy.

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Originally by: Lyticus

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The point is that it was the devs who shared their sensitive information with others, so it is they who are at fault from the very beginning. If the devs had been discreet as they are supposed to be, none of this would have happened. Its not like Kugutsumen went deliberately looking for devs information, he was likely gathering intelligence on other in-game matters and stumbled upon this.

So I ask you, who should be punished, the devs for their failure to remain candid in their relationship to CCP and the power which they weild, or the fellow who bumped into this information?

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Originally by: FireFoxx80

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Avon, I think most rational people in Eve would like to simply see a thorough and public investigation. Even if it incriminated people in their own corporation/alliances.

I know I certainly would.

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Originally by: Luna Liandri

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always the same game - shoot the messenger, sidestep the topic ...

boring, and i may add i've seen better quality posts from RB.

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Originally by: Niaski Zalani

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Alledged illegal action.

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Originally by: SNeAkYbRiT

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All I'm going to say on this "Devs and BoB" is now we know that BoB need and have to CHEAT and that the Devs themselves have to cheat at the game they help produce, sorry guys u suck...do the right thing and remove all BPO's that was seeded to BoB and sort out the T2 lottery. Sorry CCP it just shows everybody that pays your wages you cant step up and be fair, you screw us for cash and then ask us to beta test this game for you and then you CHEAT!

In my eyes BoB are now the biggest joke because they need to have help compared to everyone else that work hard in the game.

So when i see a BoB in space i will laugh and call them a cheat, I don't care if they are a normal player but to me all of BoB are CHEATS cause they need the help of the DEVS to play this game...i know if i die to one my loss mail if allowed by my CEO will not be posted

Heard that you are even making a monument of Cyvoks Titan wreck...you have time to do this but fix nothing else? and to make a monument for BoB lol your are taking the p***

I SAY TO ALL, IF THIS DOESNT GET SORTED all paying customers that see this unfair should stop paying and close their accounts for 1 month to show CCP we are the ones that PAY them and should show a little respect to its paying customers!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally by: Ishmael Hansen

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If CCP had any will at all to fix the tech 2 problem this wouldn't bother the community so much. BoB still has a collection of bpo's longer then my arm, so for all it cares they still have the i-win eve button.

In the end most of the eve fun imo is flying nice toys and blowing things up, Bobbits can do it 95% of the time they are online due to not having to carebear like every other player to fly those toys.

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Originally by: Zzleeper

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STFU.. Cheater!!

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Originally by: Zzleeper

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Originally by: Sinlare

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Originally by: Zzleeper

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STFU.. Cheater!!

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Mature

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BOB alt?

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Originally by: Maze La'Zie

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I count myself as neutral in this. It wasn't hard to track down Kugutsumen's forums from the allegations posted on these forums, and his allegations were very interesting.

We need a categoric statement on whether CCP employees cheated or not.

If CCP employees cheated, then we need to know that they were suitably punished.

Thanks.

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Originally by: SNeAkYbRiT

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well you've called me and you go on about growing up...think u need to take a spoon full of ya own medicine.

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Originally by: Harpr Shodokai

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Oh my.

I hope CCP seriously change their ways or this could really affect their actual business (journalists getting involved).

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Originally by: UKM Thorgrim

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MMMMM not that a DEV or a GM could change the logs in anyway form or manner..

SORRY But it now comes down to Not what who or Where but how long left till the GAME Dies..

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Originally by: Stahlregen

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Originally by: Tomic

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Edited by: Tomic on 07/02/2007 14:47:52

Originally by: Dianabolic

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We've said it countless times, we're too good at this game for the devs NOT to watch us

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Too good? or too many devs?

I suppose its a chicken and egg situation.

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:MASTERSTROKE:

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Originally by: Seamus O'Flannery

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This is me canceling my subscription. Heavyhanded ISD moderation sure doesn't help alleviate any suspicions.

Note to moderators: If you edit my post, please leave the first sentence. Thanks in advance.

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Originally by: Prydeless

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I dont see how anyone can say how nothing was found. Kierons original post might as well of been locked for no content...

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Originally by: The Mittani

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Edited by: The Mittani on 07/02/2007 16:58:38
^^^ You should put a leash on your boys. This type of post will further reinforce the negative stereotypes of BoB that I assume Avon and Dian are here to try to spin away from. "How dare you say anything bad about us" when there is a scandal afoot has never been a wise PR move, just ask any politican, ever.

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Originally by: Niaski Zalani

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Originally by: Rod Blaine

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Honestly, that's going way too far, and as Kieron stated CCP are not about to stop their devs from playing or limiting what they can do. So ...

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And that is part of the problem. A dev, by nature, has more "power" than any other player in-game. Whether it be the ability to manipulate game mechanics, or advance information, they still have it.

So if someone "normal" gets 10 BPO's, sure, we say "whoa, lucky you!" and go on our way. If a dev-owned character gets 10 BPO's together, then either they were very lucky to get it, or they might've jiggled the system a bit. And you can't prove that they did, and can't prove they didn't.

That's the issue at hand; same with inside-info that gets out before it's supposed to (ISD in particular have had some trouble with that one) will give someone an unfair advantage, and whether the reward in the end is unlimited Ibises for all, or a mothership, it still stings.

Just my 2 cents.

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