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Zeric Aurilen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.03.02 17:07:35 -
[1] - Quote
I've quit this game off and on so my SPs are here and there. Since I've decided to give this game a real shot, PVP focused, I figure I should see about skills.
Reason I ask is because I see videos on youtube from EveIsEasy and being able to PVP with 21 days of training. When I ask around in game, people tell me that I'll never be able to catch up in SPs and always be behind.
With such extreme answers, I am wondering where to go or what to focus on to give me the best shot. So my question is what are the must have skills and at what level should they be at? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
9652
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Posted - 2016.03.02 17:29:22 -
[2] - Quote
Must haves:
- The skills to use a MicrowarpDrive or Afterburner - The skills to use a Warp Disruptor/Scrambler
These two things will allow you to contribute to a group in a basic way; tackling ships (see: preventing them from warping off).
Beyond this:
- Any skill found in the Engineering tab is a priority skill (the edges you gain from these skills affect all ships equally). - Choose a weapon system you like and focus on training it. - Choose a tanking style you like and focus on training (moreso if you want to move up to larger ship classes, otherwise place Navigation skills as a higher priority).
All the while, mix in ship skills and a few random things here or there to keep thigs interesting or unlock basic capabilities so you can do something different (when it strikes your fancy).
Finally... don't wait for your skills to reach a certain level or whatever. PVP is more of a mentality than anything else. Be the "predator!" And if you can't beat another predator, team up with others until you learn how to beat other predators. And predators love a good laugh. Or cheekiness/scrappiness.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2244
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Posted - 2016.03.02 18:29:11 -
[3] - Quote
People talk a lot of bs ... my contribution to the must-haves: Thermodynamics IV. Being able to overheat your tank, guns, reppers, may safe your *** or secure a kill more times than you might think ...
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Memphis Baas
1262
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Posted - 2016.03.02 18:37:56 -
[4] - Quote
This game lets players compensate for any shortcomings in the skills trained / ships unlocked by simply bringing more friends to the fight.
So yea, as soon as you can get in a frigate and tackle, go at it; for all your friends it's probably better to have you there applying tackle than to not have you at all.
Long term training plans depend on what ships your friends like to fly, and what you find fun. T2 modules is easily attainable by training basic skills to 3, T2 weapons is moderately easy to achieve, and the ships (T1,T2, T3, capitals, etc) depend on what roles you are interested in.
My advice is "don't treat it as a grind". You mention you've decided to give the game a real shot; that sounds like you're going to try to suffer through whatever pain you imagine PVP to be, when in fact it's where the fun is. So don't grind through it if you're not having fun; switch to a different kind of PVP where you ARE having fun, switch to new friends, etc. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14465
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Posted - 2016.03.02 18:38:11 -
[5] - Quote
can you fit a scram? can you fit guns? can you fit a prop mod? can you fit a tank? if yes to three of the above you have the "MUST have" skills.
can you overheat any of them? if yes then you should be set.
starting there all you rely need is a bit of guidance and/or an adjective appreciation of your past and current performance.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Zeric Aurilen
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.03.02 19:03:55 -
[6] - Quote
Great thanks guys. From how some people talk, I should give up before I begin. I'll keep at it and have fun. |
ISD Chanisa Nemes
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6
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Posted - 2016.03.02 20:05:27 -
[7] - Quote
Zeric Aurilen wrote:Great thanks guys. From how some people talk, I should give up before I begin. I'll keep at it and have fun.
Having fun is the most important part. It is a game after all, right? Find a ship you like to fly and work your skill plan into that. That being said, make sure you have the skills to fit your basic mods - Afterburner, Damage control, armor/shield tank, scram/disrupter plus then whatever flavor of weapon you like. Also don't underestimate Navigation skills... being able to warp quickly can be very important.
Best of luck!
ISD Chanisa Nemes
Ensign
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Lianara Dayton
Society for Peace and Unity
31
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Posted - 2016.03.02 22:35:21 -
[8] - Quote
I'd like to add: Weapon Upgrades and Advanced Weapon Upgrades (both required for most tight fits - and both help for all ship types). Furthermore any skill that increases your powergrid or CPU output (again, required for many of the best fits and work on all ships). After those, skills that decrease the grid or CPU requirements for commonly used modules (depending, of course, on what equipment and what type of tank you use).
So in a word: fitting skills. They'll usually give you much more "bang for buck" then increasing some skill that will increase your damage by a few % points (possible exception: skills to use t2 weapons of choice). They also allow you to choose to use the cheapest modules available at your current location (particularly important if you're far away from a well stocked market) that sometimes have higher fitting requirements then (generally more expensive) meta4 equipment.
Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1215
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Posted - 2016.03.02 23:53:59 -
[9] - Quote
Propulsion Jamming Level I |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
526
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Posted - 2016.03.03 00:48:34 -
[10] - Quote
My $0.02 Thermodynamics V is possibly the most useful, all round skill you can have for PvP outside the aforementioned MWD/Scram/Guns.
Overheating is a key PvP technique and one you'd be well advised to start practicing with. The bonuses you get from overheating are huge, with the drawback that not paying attention will burn out modules on your ship.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1215
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Posted - 2016.03.03 01:17:56 -
[11] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:My $0.02 Thermodynamics V is possibly the most useful, all round skill you can have for PvP outside the aforementioned MWD/Scram/Guns.
Overheating is a key PvP technique and one you'd be well advised to start practicing with. The bonuses you get from overheating are huge, with the drawback that not paying attention will burn out modules on your ship. While overheating is no doubt an important PvP skill some other PvPers have said that getting Thermodynamics to level 5 should be very low priority.
I'm sure that you can find the previous posts if you look but it has to do with diminishing returns. I seem to recall most players said 3 was good enough and 4 was fine but getting it to 5 early on is largely a waste. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
526
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Posted - 2016.03.03 01:31:56 -
[12] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:I'm sure that you can find the previous posts if you look but it has to do with diminishing returns. I seem to recall most players said 3 was good enough and 4 was fine but getting it to 5 early on is largely a waste.
This is where I disagree with the math-warriors. My own in-game experience suggests that Thermodynamics at higher levels seems to reduce the chances of splash damage to other modules on the rack. I know its been argued to death, but my $0.02 remains the same: Thermo V is worth the train.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
216
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Posted - 2016.03.03 02:03:58 -
[13] - Quote
Group PVP or solo? Goonswarm was originally just a bunch of 30-day-old newbs running around in Rifter gangs. Goons swarming, get it?
I would not recommend training up warp disruption the way others are suggesting. If the other guy warps off, consider that a victory. Focus on beating other people first; worry about killing them later.
There will always be people with more SP than you. Part of the game is knowing when to fight and when to run.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1216
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Posted - 2016.03.03 02:54:01 -
[14] - Quote
Droidster wrote: I would not recommend training up warp disruption the way others are suggesting. If the other guy warps off, consider that a victory. Focus on beating other people first; worry about killing them later.
OMFG! you have to be trolling on this one. There is no way that you are seriously telling the OP that the 18 minutes spent training propulsion jamming to level 1 would be wasted SP in PvP. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1060
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Posted - 2016.03.03 02:56:09 -
[15] - Quote
Droidster wrote:Group PVP or solo? Goonswarm was originally just a bunch of 30-day-old newbs running around in Rifter gangs. Goons swarming, get it?
I would not recommend training up warp disruption the way others are suggesting. If the other guy warps off, consider that a victory. Focus on beating other people first; worry about killing them later.
There will always be people with more SP than you. Part of the game is knowing when to fight and when to run.
10/10 made me reply.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14476
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Posted - 2016.03.03 03:09:54 -
[16] - Quote
Right ... So for all those hundreds and hundreds of players I've killed , I didn't need to tackle because ... I'm ehh ... I'm struggling to see the logic here man.
You need to force a conclusion, otherwise they warp off, re-ship/refit or repair , and come back in the exact thing to murder your face off. Seriously , No tackle, No kill.<--------emphasis on the period.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
526
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Posted - 2016.03.03 03:23:14 -
[17] - Quote
Droidster wrote:I would not recommend training up warp disruption the way others are suggesting. If the other guy warps off, consider that a victory. Focus on beating other people first; worry about killing them later.
Thankfully for all characters created since Vanguard, Propulsion Jamming I is now a starter skill. As such, no poor benighted newbro can even be tempted to follow this piece of poorly thought out, so-called 'advice'.
With the exception of some EWAR and Logistics platforms, pretty much every combat hull should be fit with at least a long point. There are exceptions in the case of some fleet doctrines where tackle is provided by bubbles and tackle frigates.
People running away isn't a 'win' for our intrepid OP. That's a big win for the pilot that ran away. He who runs away today lives to run away again tomorrow. Running away is a smart move in many PvP situations. Preventing your opponent from running away is an equally smart move.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14477
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Posted - 2016.03.03 03:23:52 -
[18] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Mephiztopheleze wrote:My $0.02 Thermodynamics V is possibly the most useful, all round skill you can have for PvP outside the aforementioned MWD/Scram/Guns.
Overheating is a key PvP technique and one you'd be well advised to start practicing with. The bonuses you get from overheating are huge, with the drawback that not paying attention will burn out modules on your ship. While overheating is no doubt an important PvP skill some other PvPers have said that getting Thermodynamics to level 5 should be very low priority. I'm sure that you can find the previous posts if you look but it has to do with diminishing returns. I seem to recall most players said 3 was good enough and 4 was fine but getting it to 5 early on is largely a waste. Agreed , I actually only have thermo dynamics IV and its fine for extensive overheating. Not disputing that V is better (or that neglecting this skill will lose you ships)and might from time to time turn certain doom into a win but for the most part IV is perfectly serviceable .
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Memphis Baas
1262
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Posted - 2016.03.03 03:53:16 -
[19] - Quote
Droidster wrote:Goons swarming, get it? Huh?
Droidster wrote:I would not recommend training up warp disruption the way others are suggesting. If the other guy warps off, consider that a victory. What if they warp away with my stuff in their cargo?!?!?! How is that a victory?
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1654
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Posted - 2016.03.03 03:56:41 -
[20] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Mephiztopheleze wrote:My $0.02 Thermodynamics V is possibly the most useful, all round skill you can have for PvP outside the aforementioned MWD/Scram/Guns.
Overheating is a key PvP technique and one you'd be well advised to start practicing with. The bonuses you get from overheating are huge, with the drawback that not paying attention will burn out modules on your ship. While overheating is no doubt an important PvP skill some other PvPers have said that getting Thermodynamics to level 5 should be very low priority. I'm sure that you can find the previous posts if you look but it has to do with diminishing returns. I seem to recall most players said 3 was good enough and 4 was fine but getting it to 5 early on is largely a waste. Agreed , I actually only have thermo dynamics IV and its fine for extensive overheating. Not disputing that V is better (or that neglecting this skill will lose you ships)and might from time to time turn certain doom into a win but for the most part IV is perfectly serviceable . I wouldn't rush it past 4, but 5 is definitely worth it when your queue starts to slow down.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Memphis Baas
1263
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Posted - 2016.03.03 03:57:41 -
[21] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Thermodynamics V is possibly the most useful, all round skill you can have for PvP ergherhdfgh wrote:While overheating is no doubt an important PvP skill some other PvPers have said that getting Thermodynamics to level 5 should be very low priority. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Agreed , I actually only have thermo dynamics IV and its fine for extensive overheating. How about, to diplomatically appease everyone, train Thermodynamics to 4, then train it to 5 and use skill extractors to get it back to 4 (and repeat, for profits). That way the skill is useful AND makes you money.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
800
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Posted - 2016.03.03 04:16:39 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Right ... So for all those hundreds and hundreds of players I've killed , I didn't need to tackle because ... I'm ehh ... I'm struggling to see the logic here man.
You need to force a conclusion, otherwise they warp off, re-ship/refit or repair , and come back in the exact thing to murder your face off. Seriously , No tackle, No kill.<--------emphasis on the period.
Well, technically you could bump, but of course Droid wasn't even going in that direction. And I'm not recommending bumping as a replacement to tackling. Eww. Well, not to a newbro. An experienced pvp pilot complaining about how pvp is too easy...
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5706
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Posted - 2016.03.03 05:03:24 -
[23] - Quote
There are a few skills that give a benefit that far outweighs the number of skillpoints you need to invest into them.
These are:
Power Grid Management and CPU Management - adds to your ship's powergrid and CPU respectively, allowing you to fit more and better modules. **Train these to 5 within your first month** The prerequisite skills for a 5MN Microwarpdrive I, a 1MN Afterburner I, a Stasis Webifier I, a Warp Scrambler I, and a Warp Disruptor I: Combined, these open up the option to 'tackle' - a critical PVP role dedicated to preventing opponents fleeing the field of battle. Drones - allows access to the most widely used weapons system among all ships. **Train to 3 ASAP, 5 if you use ships that are designed for drones** Thermodynamics - Allows you to get 15% more performance out of almost every module on your ship in an emergency. **Train to 2 ASAP. 3 and higher can wait - the higher levels add little further benefit compared to other skills you could train first** Weapons Upgrades - Allows you to fit modules that amplify weapon damage, and makes these modules easier to fit. Train to 4 ASAP and 5 within 2 months. Advanced Weapons Upgrades (Prereq: Weapons Upgrades 5) - Makes it possible to fit more and better guns. Train to 3 as soon as you meet the prerequisite. Drone Interfacing (Prereq: Drones 5) - Amps up the damage your drones do Jury Rigging - Allows you to fit rigs, permanent modifications to your ships that have significant upsides and modest downsides. Train to 3 ASAP, then train the prerequisite skills for specific rigs you want to use (for instance, you might train "Hybrid Weapon Rigging" or "Armor Rigging") - those skills can stay at 2 in the short term. The skills that add 5% per level to shields, armor, structure, and capacitor (cannot remember names). Train these to 3 ASAP and 4 soon.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5706
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Posted - 2016.03.03 05:07:43 -
[24] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Mephiztopheleze wrote:Thermodynamics V is possibly the most useful, all round skill you can have for PvP ergherhdfgh wrote:While overheating is no doubt an important PvP skill some other PvPers have said that getting Thermodynamics to level 5 should be very low priority. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Agreed , I actually only have thermo dynamics IV and its fine for extensive overheating. How about, to diplomatically appease everyone, train Thermodynamics to 4, then train it to 5 and use skill extractors to get it back to 4 (and repeat, for profits). That way the skill is useful AND makes you money.
Thermo 5 is an extremely low priority. Even 4 is so little gain over level 3 that it should be a long, long, long way down your skill queue.
You get *much* more benefit from training lower priority support skills like Trajectory Analysis to 5. (I don't recommend newbies do that any time soon either). Get the low-hanging fruit first.
In a few years time, once you have almost everything, you can pick up the extremely small boost of Thermo 5 and spend a *month* training it.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Lianara Dayton
Society for Peace and Unity
31
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Posted - 2016.03.03 07:20:17 -
[25] - Quote
A further bit of advice that should be obvious but since you've got people in this thread seriously suggesting Thermodynamics to 5 as a high priority, I feel like it's worth pointing out: generally it's inefficient to train skills to 5 unless they are required for some other skill you need or if you're attempting to really focus on a single aspect of a ship (or role) - and that will hardly be the case for a new player. The reason are diminishing returns: lets take the skill Target Management as an example: this skill allows you to lock one additional target per skill level. Level 1-3 (+2 targets locked) takes roughly half as long to train as it does to increase the skill from 3 to 4. So you're doubling the amount of additional training time for half the gain (+1 target locked). Increasing the skill to 5 will take yet longer and still only yield +1 targets locked (but in this case having Target Management to 5 will allow you to train Advanced Target Management to 3 which will only take a very short amount of time compared to the previous skill to 5 and will yield +3 targets locked so that's something to think about). This logic holds true for virtually all skills: increasing your weapon damage by +8% (for example Small Autocannon Spec. from 0 to 4) will take less long then to increase it by the last 2% (Small Autocannon Spec. from 4 to 5).
So in conclusion: only train skills to 5 when they serve to unlock new skills or when you're running out of other skills to train to 4.
So the last skill you'd want to prioritize as a new player would be something like Thermodynamics to 5 (even 4 is very questionable if you're missing other important fitting skills to at least 4).
Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
801
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Posted - 2016.03.03 16:13:50 -
[26] - Quote
Lianara Dayton wrote:
Generally it's inefficient to train skills to 5 unless they are required for some other skill you need or if you're attempting to really focus on a single aspect of a ship (or role) - and that will hardly be the case for a new player. .
This, and we are generally pretty good about suggesting that. Droid distracted us. 7/10
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1655
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Posted - 2016.03.03 16:27:01 -
[27] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: You get *much* more benefit from training lower priority support skills like Trajectory Analysis to 5.
This statement is utter nonsense.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
216
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Posted - 2016.03.03 21:50:24 -
[28] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Droidster wrote: I would not recommend training up warp disruption the way others are suggesting. If the other guy warps off, consider that a victory. Focus on beating other people first; worry about killing them later.
OMFG! you have to be trolling on this one. There is no way that you are seriously telling the OP that the 18 minutes spent training propulsion jamming to level 1 would be wasted SP in PvP.
Its not a matter of the training time, its the compromise to the fitting by filling a slot with a scrambler/disruptor.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5708
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Posted - 2016.03.03 21:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote: You get *much* more benefit from training lower priority support skills like Trajectory Analysis to 5.
This statement is utter nonsense.
If you honestly think Thermo 5 and TA 4 is better than Thermo 4 and TA 5, you should learn the maths of how heat damage works.
Obviously neither TA5 nor Thermo 5 should be on anyone's radar as a newbie but someone (possibly trolling, possibly honestly believing it, I personally believe they were trolling as they suggest it often and have been conclusively proven wrong before) suggested Thermo 5 here.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
803
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Posted - 2016.03.03 22:02:29 -
[30] - Quote
Droidster wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Droidster wrote: I would not recommend training up warp disruption the way others are suggesting. If the other guy warps off, consider that a victory. Focus on beating other people first; worry about killing them later.
OMFG! you have to be trolling on this one. There is no way that you are seriously telling the OP that the 18 minutes spent training propulsion jamming to level 1 would be wasted SP in PvP. Its not a matter of the training time, its the compromise to the fitting by filling a slot with a scrambler/disruptor.
That is what I thought you meant.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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