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Ammatar Faction ships - (very thought out)

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Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.08 22:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 08/02/2007 22:06:51 I've heard rumours that Khanid ships are in development. I haven't heard anything concerning the Ammatar. Please don't forget about us! I've been giving the idea some thought: Skill tree: - To be piloted, Ammatar ships require Amarr and Minmatar spaceship command skills Ammatar ship hulls - They mostly resemble old amarr ship designs, slightly obsolete but refitted. - The colour is faded gold, as if it really needs a polish. Think tea-stain colours. - The weapons used are projectiles, the old ships cannot support modern lasers - The theory behind the design is closer to that of the Amarr ships - The larger ships are slower than minmatar counterparts, but have better armor tanking - The ships also have fewer weapon slots than minmatar ships to compensate Faction Ammatar frigate Hull: Tormentor Name: Guarantor Slot layout: 4/3/3 (3 turrets) Powergrid: 38 CPU: 125 Max velocity: 310m/s Bonuses per level: Minmatar frigate: 5% increase to small projectile damage Amarr frigate: 5% increase to small projectile falloff Description: Using an unorthodox mix of dated Amarr technology and Ammatar resourcefulness, the Guarantor was born in the midst of the struggle between the San Matar government and the Minmatar Republic. Modified with guerrilla warfare in mind, the Guarantor exhibits speed and agility whilst patrolling the systems of the Mandate. Faction Ammatar Cruiser Hull: Omen (with more of an armour-clad look) / something new Name: Proctor Slot layout: 5/4/6 or 6/3/6 (5 turrets) Powergrid: 875 CPU: 325 Max velocity: 180m/s Bonuses per level: Minmatar cruiser: 5% increase to medium projectile rate of fire Amarr cruiser: 10% increase to armour hp Description: Recognising the Ammatar NavyÆs need for a formidable mid-sized combat vessel, the Empire authorised the transfer of thousands of decommissioned ship hulls to its workshops. The product of these labours was the Proctor, so hardy it was dubbed the æGuardian of the MandateÆ. Faction Ammatar Battleship Hull: Preferably a new hull* Name: Manumitter / Docent Slot layout: 8/4/7 (7 turrets, 1 empty) Powergrid: 16500 CPU: 550 Max velocity: 125m/s Bonuses: Minmatar battleship: 5% bonus to projectile rate of fire Amarr battleship: 5% bonus to capacitor capacity Description: The Manumitter is pride of any Ammatar fleet, the climax of their attempts to imitate the empireÆs æGolden fleetÆ. Using the scripture as their inspiration the Ammatar have built their ultimate tribute to the Amarr, a resilient combat platform for the sauarding of the borders of the Empire. I have many ideas for how the hull could look, and will be providing links to illustrations soon. I think a battleship-sized cross between an Apocalypse and a Fenrir would show both the crudeness of Ammatar technology whilst still revealing the Amarr inspiration. **I know that æManumitterÆ means æhe who sets slaves freeÆ. This may sound like the opposite of what the Ammatar believe. However, from my interpretation of the point of view of the Ammatar, they believe they are free and the Minmatar in the Republic misguided puppets of the Gallente. If the name is still a problem, Docent (can mean guide, or in another context student/learner) would be the name I propose. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.08 23:39:00 - [2] Look pretty intresting. The Amarr and Minmatar mix makes sense. Also, don't forget, the Caldari secretly support the Ammatar (http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/dec03.asp) Some Caldari influences might be found as well, though how to fit that into the Ammar and Min skill trees is open to debate. Perhaps turret bonuses instead of projectile bonuses (would apply to energy weapons, hybrids and projectiles). That way a more hodge-podge set of configurations would work and not severly limit/hurt skill point investments and still allow for the backstory's influences. -AS
elFarto New Order Industries	Posted - 2007.02.09 09:41:00 - [3] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Look pretty intresting. The Amarr and Minmatar mix makes sense. Also, don't forget, the Caldari secretly support the Ammatar (http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/dec03.asp) Just add some blinky lights to the ships to imply that they're getting some fancy hi-tech stuff from the Caldari. Regards elFarto NPC database Mal: This is your captain speaking. We're having some technical difficulties, so we may experience some turbulence, and then explode.
Chi Prime Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.09 10:49:00 - [4] When the new races came out, I was hoping for Khanid for Amarr, and Ammatar for Minmatar (The latter being Minmatar with laser focus). I suppose that would pose a problem when it came to factional warfare, as it means two races that support Amarr, and none for Minmatar though :/ - Ares, Raptor and Malediction needs fixing
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.09 11:31:00 - [5] The thing about lasers is... The Amarr navy, Khanid Navy, Bloodraiders and Sanshas already use them... For projectiles... The Republic fleet and Angel cartel use them.. Subjectively, it would be good to have another faction ship using projectiles. Also, I believe the Ammatar ships provided to them by Amarr would lack full technology to use lasers, so they would still be using good 'ol projectiles. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.11 22:30:00 - [6] Damn! People have a lot of ideas...pictures on way.. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Erim Solfara Amarr Tarlos INC	Posted - 2007.02.11 23:08:00 - [7] I like the thinking, the bonuses seem a little off to me though. Personally if you're going for an armour tanking projectile ship, the cap shouldn't be up to Amarr standards by quite some way, and you could do with something relating to armour tanking perhaps? If the frigate got the punishers 5% to armour resists/level that might suit more, the Proctor might do well from a resist bonus instead of HP, and the battleship could do with something different to max cap, range/damage or such? Just my thoughts, cap bonused projectile ships might be a bit too good. New ship class
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.12 00:59:00 - [8] I understand what you're saying. They may be a bit overpowered (particularly the larger ships, I think the frigate is ok). I might have to totally reconsider the CPU/PG and weapons because of something I noticed in-game. The Ammatar navy has its own versions of lasers. Therefore its ships should probably be laser ships. With that in mind, I'll do some fiddling, I still like the ideas for the hulls. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Sadao Minmatar Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.12 11:00:00 - [9] I wholeheartedly support this idea. Make it so CCP. At the above post's, surely if its a faction ship, it should be a bit more uber? Denique Ammataria
Erim Solfara Amarr Tarlos INC	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:06:00 - [10] I'd love to see more variety in faction ships, lots more. You see Amarr navy arbitrators, omens, executioners, I think it'd add alot more to the mission rewards system and the game in general if you could get a multitude of faction ships. As for the points raised above, a new type of weapon would be nice, like the blasters/rails, it uses the same skill set as normal Lasers, but they're different tech. Not sure what they could be called, some sort of beam weapon would fit though, interestingly, to the OP, where did you find out about the Ammatars lasers? New ship class
Spoon Thumb Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:25:00 - [11] I had envisioned something more along the lines of Minmatar ships with those great Golden Armor plates the Amarr are so keen on slapped to the sides. But then, it wouldn't make sense storyline wise if we assume that most or all Minmatar ships were created during the Minmatar uprisings, and as such were only ever a product of the republic and her allies, to whom the Ammatar were never a party to As for the factional warfare, Minmatar have a whole series of tribes, some of which aren't really used atm (such as Krusual) that could potentially be used as a way of sub-dividing the faction ----- Khaldari KPA are recruiting!
Barrier Solo Infinity Shipyard Masters	Posted - 2007.02.12 22:56:00 - [12] Well thought out post. Would like to see more ships types and variants, as well as new specialist ship classes. Barrier Solo, CEO, INSM
Hypo Psycho Minmatar Universal Army	Posted - 2007.02.12 23:38:00 - [13] Edited by: Hypo Psycho on 12/02/2007 23:39:36 now this i like the quicker this is introduced in game the better im getting fed up with the continuous implant drops from my ammatar agent and make sure they are projectile platforms if khanid is going laser why should ammatar go laser aswell? "see you on the other side"
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.14 13:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Spoon Thumb I had envisioned something more along the lines of Minmatar ships with those great Golden Armor plates the Amarr are so keen on slapped to the sides. But then, it wouldn't make sense storyline wise if we assume that most or all Minmatar ships were created during the Minmatar uprisings, and as such were only ever a product of the republic and her allies, to whom the Ammatar were never a party to The way I understand it, when the rebellion occurred, many Ammatar had to flee from the space that became the republic. I would not believe they would have their own military hardware/resources to set up ships (unless they were of minmatar standards). I think it makes sense that the Ammatar navy ships are comprised of older issues of Amarr navy ships, with some refitting using ammatar ingenuity to make them effective battleplatforms. Originally by: Erim Solfara Where did you find out about the Ammatars lasers? I looked at the variants of lasers and saw an Ammatar navy variant. I was disappointed, hoping that the Ammatar would not have to use the same weapons as the amarr, sanshas, khanid, blood raiders... Very few factions use projectiles (fleet, thukkers, angel cartel). What I would like to point out is that while an Ammatar variant of a laser/mods exist ingame, it is not fair that a ship cannot exist alongside it for players to fly. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Erim Solfara Amarr Tarlos INC	Posted - 2007.02.14 22:13:00 - [15] I think lasers would be a good thing, to balance this there are plenty of other Matari tribes that could be incorporated for factional warfare and ships etc, just to even the odds up... New ship class
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.19 17:12:00 - [16] Revised ship stats (to accomodate lasers) For the Guarantor: Revised slot layout: 4/3/4 Powergrid: 45 CPU: 125 Revised bonuses per level: Minmatar frigate: 5% increase to velocity Amarr frigate: 5% increase small energy turret rof For the Proctor Slot layout: 5/4/6 Powergrid: 900 CPU: 350 Max velocity: 190m/s Revised bonuses per level: Minmatar cruiser: 10% increase to medium energy turret falloff Amarr cruiser: 5% increase to medium energy turret rof For the Manumitter** / Docent Slot layout: 8/4/7 (7 turrets, 1 empty) Powergrid: 16500 CPU: 550 Max velocity: 125m/s Bonuses: Minmatar battleship: 5% bonus to large energy turret tracking Amarr battleship: 5% bonus to large energy turret rof Delictum 23216 Official forums
Ashar KorAzor Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:18:00 - [17] Edited by: Ashar KorAzor on 19/02/2007 18:23:16 Well, to fit with the backstory, there are things to be considered: -if the Mandate is a hotbed of political risk/fear/whatever, there will be a significant military buildup necessary - this is one region, between the Republic and the Empire. There will certainly be a lot of ships and a lot of military spending, because if the Republic goes to war, Derelik will be the logical place for them to hit, or at least as logical as going for Domain. Hence, I view Mandate military forces sort of the way NATO-reinforced areas in eastern europe were, or maybe west germany - there's enough there to do quite a bit, but it's mostly a given that they're going to last a fixed amount of time in the region, and then no more, sort of like the NATO forces along the border would last twelve hours and then likely crumble if the Soviets came in. Hence, the equipment donated by the Amarrians will be tried and tested stuff, but not the most wonderful vessels ever. Hence, faction ships like an Ammatar navy slicer, or maybe a hybrid design that reflects the Nefantari's interest in more Matari themed technology works. For example, a faction frigate that: -reflects the Caldari support for the Mandate, ie, missile slots and bonuses, better shield tank, better grid/cpu/cap distribution, or a mix thereof would make sense (upgraded inquisitor, anyone?) -has EW bonuses against Matari sensor systems would work, as there's the Republic across the border to defend against (upgraded crucifier? amarr-textured vigil?) a t2 frigate that: -reflects a more beneficial mix of the above-listed features for a Caldari-themed frig would work -is geared toward destroying/tackling Matari ships would work (drone bay and range bonus for webber drones? MWD power bonus ala Daredevil?) Cruisers, well, there's two suggestions: Matari & Amarr themes. Given the immense popularity of Arbitrator hulls and the fact that the Amarr HACs and faction ships already have options in some variety for everything but the Omen and Maller, it's pretty easy to consider the options. -give the Maller a few bonuses (shields, some missile slots, a drome bay, speed bonus, something?) to create something that could more effectively counter, say, rupture hulls -give the Omen a shield tank and mess with the turrets and drone bay to maintain some level of fairness, make it rare enough and expensive enough that not too many people will use it Or, the ever-popular option: -create a new arbitrator hull. Add in another missile slot and take a turret slot, or increase the drone bay significantly (say, to 100 m^3), or give it specific EW bonuses that make it useful against Matari sensors and little else or some combination thereof, then make it rare/expensive; or give it a large bonus on ONE area and make it a t2 hull. And, of course, for taking ships from the Matari, there's always the cruiser that fits with the, shall we say, hull tendency of Amarr ships to be a bit, uh, tubular: -Ammatar stabber variant. You heard me. Slow it down a bit if you have to, or make it rarer than the rest, but I'll bet a shiney-gold or khanid-colored stabber would be interesting to see. Make it a t2 ship and don't seed BPOs, if you like. Call it a 'kinslayer' or something, and you can even make it fit with all those other Amarr names :P Anything above that, such as battlecruisers, is probably best kept as is, but if there's an Ammatar version of the Hurricane or the Harbinger or Prophecy, well. Admittedly, making a harbinger command ship with something of a lack of tanking ability but an offensive bonus might reflect the Amarrian view that Ammatar are the first line of defense and need to cause a lot of damage to the enemy as opposed to surviving... Battleships should probably remain Amarrian? Ship coloring - deeper gold with touches of Khanid green/black or Caldari silver-blue might work, but one could also give the ships a more earthy look with those internal components, or make them just a tiny bit rusty
Ashar KorAzor Order of the Blessed Sisters of Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.19 18:24:00 - [18] Cont'd. Or make them appear welded together at the joints, like Ammatar fleet refitted major components (engine blocks, turret mounts) as fast as possible because of invasion concerns, or whatnot. As to projectiles versus lasers: You might consider that switching more to missiles, drones, and EW with some projectile turrets would be more prudent - these are faction ships and, if we're lucky, t2 ships we're talking about; we might as well have specified roles for them, and cater to experts. We also might as well have something along the lines of a skillbonus and roles list that reflects the fact that the Nefantar were supposed to be a pretty subtle bunch, being Matari leaders and all. The sad fact is, however, that there need to be more agents and more gates in Derelik for this to really work, or for the t1 ships to be useful enough that people will actively go and secure the lower-sec systems that high-level and high-quality Ammatar agents reside in for mission running. Reactivate the Ashab-Tahnoo gate! Disclaimer: The above views do not represent the wise words of an individual gifted with a complete understanding of PvP or market dynamics. If there are stupid ideas here, by all means feel free to point out why and how stupid they are.
Erim Solfara Amarr Tarlos INC	Posted - 2007.02.20 00:11:00 - [19] Very much like the OPs suggestion, and those new changes seem for the better. Ashar raises some interesting points, but I'm not sure on a few of them... New ship class
Tarron Sarek Gallente Solid Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.20 08:57:00 - [20] If at least somebody would be so honest and say nobody wants Ammatar ships with Minmatar tank and Amarr lasers, because people would think it sucks. Apart from that, nice and interesting posts. As for balancing, just make sure not everyone would ditch classic Minmatar ships for the new ones. That means, don't make Ammatar ships better/more attractive overall. Think of tier 2 BCs. ___________________________________ _/_/ Game balance isn't just a luxury \_\_
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.20 09:50:00 - [21] Ashar, your points gave me a very interesting idea for the Ammatar fleet: Minmatar - Caldari skilltree?! This doesn't yet exist ingame and would be very interesting to see. The armor looking duller amarrian gold with a hint of caldari? Lovely! Maybe missile bonuses rather than lasers? That fits excellently! Maybe if we revise the slot layout and give rof bonuses to the ships from the caldari side and speed/turret bonuses from the minmatar side? Delictum 23216 Official forums
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.20 09:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Tarron Sarek As for balancing, just make sure not everyone would ditch classic Minmatar ships for the new ones. That means, don't make Ammatar ships better/more attractive overall. Think of tier 2 BCs. Faction ships should be a bit better than standard fare I would believe, I based the stats on best standard and faction ships from the imperial/republic navies. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Sadao Minmatar Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.20 10:25:00 - [23] Whatever you do DONT make them laser based. I have played an Amaar character and I can tell you fact, LASERS SUCK hairy donkey balls!!!
Tarron Sarek Gallente Solid Industries Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.20 10:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Sadao Whatever you do DONT make them laser based. I have played an Amaar character and I can tell you fact, LASERS SUCK hairy donkey balls!!! But that's a problem in the current concept and hasn't necessarily to do with whether or not making Ammatar ships laser based is right or wrong or good/bad idea. Such design choices should be totally independant of current game balance. 'Cause that can change. @Scagga: Yes, my bad. Somehow I didn't realize the 'faction' thing. So nevermind. ___________________________________ _/_/ Game balance isn't just a luxury \_\_
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.20 10:44:00 - [25] Supposing we decide to use a Caldari/Minmatar skill root for Ammatar ships, I made the following modifications to their stats (I still think they should be armor tankers): For the Guarantor Slot layout: 4/3/3 (3 launchers, 1 turret) Powergrid: 38 CPU: 150 Max velocity: 310m/s Bonuses per level: Minmatar frigate: 5% increase to max velocity Caldari frigate: 5% increase to launcher rof I tried thinking it through for the larger ships...I need input on these ones, I find it hard to think caldari+minmatar while trying to factor in whether they should have turrets or not and how the bonuses could work. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Jania cross	Posted - 2007.02.20 10:49:00 - [26] Wow, Scagga has impressed once more! I totally and utterly agree with this idea! Ammatar ships seem to be a must since we, the Ammatars, increase in numbers. A Minmatar / Caldari Skill would be interesting as well, as Ashar proposed, but that would deviate from the Ammatar concept, wouldnt it? (Amarr/Minmatar). Jania Cross Denique Ammataria
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.20 11:59:00 - [27] It's a good question - Amarr/Minmatar , Minmatar/Caldari skilltrees. The justification for the first is the original story I gave in the description of the ships. The Amarr basically equip the Ammatar who give it a slight minmatar touch. If we were to choose Minmatar/Caldari - I could say that the Ammatar were minmatar allied to the Amarr, who got a hand from the Caldari (caldari commissioned by amarr or contracted otherwise) to update the primitive designs that the Ammatar were flying, as they weren't deemed suitable to fly the golden amarr ships. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Ostos Marek House of Marek	Posted - 2007.02.20 12:48:00 - [28] Scagga, I would say Ammatar ships use a combination of Amarr and Minmatar Weaponry. So their ships could have a few lasers, few projectile turrets. Although now since playing ostos as an Ammatar I've gone whole heartedly towards lasers. Or you could have their ships get bonuses elsewhere, such as better speed or recharge cap rate higher ...etc I like this Idea of Ammatar ships for players though. Good work Scagga. Believe in God or suffer Oblivion. This is your FINAL choice. The only choice that matters.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:03:00 - [29] Scagga, how about doing a quick precis on an NPC Ammatar ship building company to be the one that makes them? Seems to be lacking at the moment as well. These do look very well thought out. Looks at her Ammatar standings No! No they don't! Mutters and grumbles -Eva- Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.02.20 13:55:00 - [30] I thought of the following possible names for an Ammatar NPC corporation that would build these ships: - Mandate dockyards - San Matar Inc. - Diadem Industries More to come Delictum 23216 Official forums

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