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Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
162
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Posted - 2016.03.29 20:25:37 -
[31] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:There is basically no drawback on hull rigs when fitted on frigs.
The drawback is under the hood by the high CPU requirements of bulkheads and damage controls. The buff to shield fits sans DCU with the free hull resists offset much of the penalty to the tighter fitting on tiercide mods. Changes are coming along very nicely for the frigate meta. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2932
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Posted - 2016.03.29 20:33:44 -
[32] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:There is basically no drawback on hull rigs when fitted on frigs. Drawback: Can't pick up as much loot after you win. :p
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Kethen T'val
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
8
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Posted - 2016.03.29 21:54:10 -
[33] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote:Kethen T'val wrote:
Sometimes. Often, when it comes to the Comet. Paper DPS is actual DPS
The Comet definitely has the tracking, the speed, but if you don't know how to fly none of that is going to land. If you're good, yes, you can make it happen every time. Often I consistently out-dps higher dps ships because I'm there first, my positioning is solid, even if my dps is meager in comparison in something smaller. There are so many factors, but being good and effective is not a reason to cry OP! You have so many things to handle in a Comet that the probability of errors rise and each mistake severely reduces advantages that might have been assumed. This is easy to capitalize as an FC just by creating distance prior to an engagement. Comet does well because people don't bring the appropriate ewar and everyone is thinking along the same lane: highest dps. This is why the TD condor is such a great ship for solo pilots, but with such low dps you really have to do groupings or have links. Some of the best pirates don't fly far from home because they do counter fits and they are ridiculously good at it, or lazy about moving their links far. You RvB guys might be complacent with implants by your rules on no podding, but down here everything is game. Billion Isk Links die and pods get lost; you pay for the advantages to effectiveness.
I never cried OP though :) |
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
234
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Posted - 2016.03.29 22:08:47 -
[34] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:There is basically no drawback on hull rigs when fitted on frigs. The drawback is under the hood by the high CPU requirements of bulkheads and damage controls. The buff to shield fits sans DCU with the free hull resists offset much of the penalty to the tighter fitting on tiercide mods. Changes are coming along very nicely for the frigate meta.
DCU is still omni resists mod with no stacking penalties on shield/armor, so for what it does the cost on frigs is not high imo it's adequate. About the free hull resists it's a bit early to say, but I have doubts about it drastically changing anything in combat frig fits.
Was comet underpowered or bad before the hull rigs introduction? ('cause there were compromises before, right now it's a good enough omni tank with only one passive mod that cost 30 CPU and rigs with drawbacks that are non-existent) Tiericide changes are coming nicely, but going back and looking at things like hull rigs, small beams and probably some other small things wouldn't hurt.
X Gallentius wrote:Drawback: Can't pick up as much loot after you win. :p damn, good point. :D |
Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
162
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Posted - 2016.03.30 01:35:02 -
[35] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
DCU is still omni resists mod with no stacking penalties on shield/armor, so for what it does the cost on frigs is not high imo it's adequate. About the free hull resists it's a bit early to say, but I have doubts about it drastically changing anything in combat frig fits.
Was comet underpowered or bad before the hull rigs introduction? ('cause there were compromises before, right now it's a good enough omni tank with only one passive mod that cost 30 CPU and rigs with drawbacks that are non-existent) Tiericide changes are coming nicely, but going back and looking at things like hull rigs, small beams and probably some other small things wouldn't hurt.
The Reactive Armor Hardener also adds positive resist profile. Sorely underrated mod, in my opinion. For only 24cpu the +60% at full bore it can make a t1 ship hit t2 resists while avoiding too many stacking penalties and potentially opening a low for something else. Hull tanking was mostly a joke until the rigs came out. But adding a t2 Reinforced Bulkhead in the low is 40cpu. Extremely high. A ship that fits this might have an advantage to sig and speed over armor and shield, but, as XG said, you cannot (reasonably) be assisted with remote reps on your highest resist profile. I would leave that where it is. It's added some great meta even in cruisers and above.
Kethen T'val wrote:I never cried OP though :)
Maybe not, but it did sound as if a 380dps Comet was commonplace. |
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
724
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Posted - 2016.03.31 00:25:57 -
[36] - Quote
Strong native hull tank, good fitting, good tracking, good damage and good mobility.
Shield fit it can go extremely fast with good tank and dps. With a hull tank / armor repper you can do good damage, with a large buffer and no speed penalties. Can be fit for both rails (awesome) or blasters (also awesome) and work effectively with both.
Its just a really flexible, solid ship. I still think the Hookbill overall has more potential. But as a standard frigate? Fed Navy Comet. |
Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
235
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Posted - 2016.03.31 00:37:18 -
[37] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote:Ashlar Vellum wrote:
DCU is still omni resists mod with no stacking penalties on shield/armor, so for what it does the cost on frigs is not high imo it's adequate. About the free hull resists it's a bit early to say, but I have doubts about it drastically changing anything in combat frig fits.
Was comet underpowered or bad before the hull rigs introduction? ('cause there were compromises before, right now it's a good enough omni tank with only one passive mod that cost 30 CPU and rigs with drawbacks that are non-existent) Tiericide changes are coming nicely, but going back and looking at things like hull rigs, small beams and probably some other small things wouldn't hurt.
The Reactive Armor Hardener also adds positive resist profile. Sorely underrated mod, in my opinion. For only 24cpu the +60% at full bore it can make a t1 ship hit t2 resists while avoiding too many stacking penalties and potentially opening a low for something else. Hull tanking was mostly a joke until the rigs came out. But adding a t2 Reinforced Bulkhead in the low is 40cpu. Extremely high. A ship that fits this might have an advantage to sig and speed over armor and shield, but, as XG said, you cannot (reasonably) be assisted with remote reps on your highest resist profile. I would leave that where it is. It's added some great meta even in cruisers and above.
RAH is an interesting choice, but not on frigs the cap use of that thing is extreme. It's like constantly running 5mn mwd (even more actually), half of your frig cap regen will go on only feeding this one mod. This is hardly reasonable on small hulls and opens too many problems than it solves.
You can hull tank with only DCU plus hull rigs and get decent enough tank on frigs and to some degree on dessies. Bulkheads (the mod) actually have a quite interesting drawback to agility, this is the thing I wouldn't mind seeing on hull rigs too.
One more thing.
Hull rigs have 20% bonus (T1 variant) vs 15% on shield/armor (T1) and imo that is ok, because as you and XG pointed out they can't be reasonably RRed. Now here comes the fun part about hull rigs/bulkheads, one t2 hull rig gives as big of a bonus (25%) as a T2 bulkhead (25%), but with 0 compromises. There were no 40 cpu cost, no agility penalty and you save up a slot, even cargo drawback is smaller on the rig.
So yeah ... hull rigs are a cool idea, but they still need balancing imo.
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Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
164
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Posted - 2016.03.31 05:07:14 -
[38] - Quote
Ya, I would only throw a RAH on cruiser hull and above. Was just commenting that its positive resist profile often gets overlooked. Can even shoot your own pilots to get them warmed up!
::edit:: But again, as far as the hull rigs are concerned, I include them in the same light as a whole in that you have those nice benefits only on certain class of ships that have high hull hp's and that you are still giving up the remote repair option. Not all ships have high hull values, but Gallente often do. Being that we are armor usually and slow, this has added a nice opportunity to mix things up and not be so predictably slow. Many a Garmur has bit the dust to the bulk head Comet. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
791
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Posted - 2016.04.01 04:45:52 -
[39] - Quote
Oreb Wing wrote:Ya, I would only throw a RAH on cruiser hull and above. Was just commenting that its positive resist profile often gets overlooked. Can even shoot your own pilots to get them warmed up!
::edit:: But again, as far as the hull rigs are concerned, I include them in the same light as a whole in that you have those nice benefits only on certain class of ships that have high hull hp's and that you are still giving up the remote repair option. Not all ships have high hull values, but Gallente often do. Being that we are armor usually and slow, this has added a nice opportunity to mix things up and not be so predictably slow. Many a Garmur has bit the dust to the bulk head Comet.
I fly 340 DPS dual web Comets all the time. No bulkheads required in the lows. T2 hull rigs give 6.5k EHP before the ancil, which can add alot more depending on your opponents DPS. No speed drawbacks of armor tanking and no sig/mid slot tradeoffs due to shields. Links still give you goofy speed (over 2k heated) and a nice buff to the AAR+17k webs and faster lock speeds to eat would-be mwd kite setups. And your standard rail comet gets something like 220 hot with no implants. Superior to the other navies in every way. Adding a TD with full weapon disruption skills is the only way to have a chance.
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Silverbackyererse
the church of awesome
207
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Posted - 2016.04.01 05:16:58 -
[40] - Quote
I'm curious as to how many people don't realise in time that they can just warp out from fights with your dual web blaster PooChariot DM.
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
355
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Posted - 2016.04.01 06:54:32 -
[41] - Quote
Quote: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
I have removed the offending material, and those quoting it.
~ISD Buldath
Commander
Support, Training and Resources Division
Interstellar Services Department
I do not respond to EVE-Mails regarding forum moderation.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
793
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Posted - 2016.04.08 23:16:07 -
[42] - Quote
Silverbackyererse wrote:I'm curious as to how many people don't realise in time that they can just warp out from fights with your dual web blaster PooChariot DM.
It's probably happened like 5 times out of 100. By far my most successful solo setup. It takes a huge amount of discipline to, within 15 seconds, realize that you are not pulling range, realize that you aren't scrammed and so he's probably dual web, and warp out. Scram kite setups tend to be a little bit squishy and they don't stand up well against 330 DPS with void at optimal - i.e. that paper DPS will be actual DPS. The only thing that throws you off is links or a blob which is why I try to avoid taking fights in okkamon. But sometimes I get bored and mistakes happen.
I have tried dual web TD Hookbill, did not fare well against rail comet. But I have not trained advanced weapon disruption so that's probably an issue.
People are programmed to assume solo setups have a point. I have lost to pointless setups and I fly them. You are too focused on trying to win the fight to recognize that it's unwinnable. |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
237
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Posted - 2016.04.11 14:46:12 -
[43] - Quote
It needs to be noted that pointless ships only really work on frigate sized engagements. No point destroyers are also effective but only when engaging gangs of frigates or other destroyers in 1v1s. Anything larger and people will notice when things are not going their way and leave grid. |
Luscious Lynn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2016.04.11 16:35:31 -
[44] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:It needs to be noted that pointless ships only really work on frigate sized engagements. No point destroyers are also effective but only when engaging gangs of frigates or other destroyers in 1v1s. Anything larger and people will notice when things are not going their way and leave grid.
I'd imagine this is true only because larger hull engagements maybe last longer and there's more time to notice there's no point on you? |
Switch Savage
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
237
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Posted - 2016.04.11 20:10:22 -
[45] - Quote
Luscious Lynn wrote:Switch Savage wrote:It needs to be noted that pointless ships only really work on frigate sized engagements. No point destroyers are also effective but only when engaging gangs of frigates or other destroyers in 1v1s. Anything larger and people will notice when things are not going their way and leave grid. I'd imagine this is true only because larger hull engagements maybe last longer and there's more time to notice there's no point on you?
Correct.
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Hans Arzi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.04.25 22:22:38 -
[46] - Quote
police navy comet best comet |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2935
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Posted - 2016.04.30 18:58:37 -
[47] - Quote
Police Pursuit Comet. That is all.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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RonPaul Rox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
105
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Posted - 2016.05.19 04:43:10 -
[48] - Quote
Kethen T'val wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Kethen T'val wrote:380 DPS + full tackle + fast + ok tank 380 brained with two 5% DPS implants, stacked with voided polarized turrets, then Overheat ALL the THINGS1!! Let's see the fit No implants, No polarized. Ofc Void cause tracking bonus. But when you are not overheating a Comet like that from the get go, you are doing something wrong.
void has a 25% tracking penalty, you are thinking javelin for rails
http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL
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Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders
182
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Posted - 2016.05.19 07:42:48 -
[49] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:Kethen T'val wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Kethen T'val wrote:380 DPS + full tackle + fast + ok tank 380 brained with two 5% DPS implants, stacked with voided polarized turrets, then Overheat ALL the THINGS1!! Let's see the fit No implants, No polarized. Ofc Void cause tracking bonus. But when you are not overheating a Comet like that from the get go, you are doing something wrong. void has a 25% tracking penalty, you are thinking javelin for rails
tracking penaly is completely irrelevant on a dual web comet, you just hit approach and go berzerk |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1215
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Posted - 2016.05.20 01:33:17 -
[50] - Quote
Doctor Knuckles wrote:RonPaul Rox wrote:Kethen T'val wrote:Oreb Wing wrote:Kethen T'val wrote:380 DPS + full tackle + fast + ok tank 380 brained with two 5% DPS implants, stacked with voided polarized turrets, then Overheat ALL the THINGS1!! Let's see the fit No implants, No polarized. Ofc Void cause tracking bonus. But when you are not overheating a Comet like that from the get go, you are doing something wrong. void has a 25% tracking penalty, you are thinking javelin for rails tracking penaly is completely irrelevant on a dual web comet, you just hit approach and go berzerk
"Warp Drive Active" Provided it does get me sometimes if I feel like winning but most of the time I just warp off.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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John Lawyer Jr
Silicon Dreams Smile 'n' Wave
0
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Posted - 2016.05.21 12:32:02 -
[51] - Quote
Zamiel en Distel wrote:I've just started participating in Gallente FW. I'm seeing that the frigate most preferred is the Federation Navy Comet. Is there any specific reason for this? One important thing about comet - you cannot evaluate comet without flying other.. 'inferior' ships. FN Comet is very flexible and hardly predictable ship - in addition to mentioned fits, you can fit great tank (hull buffer, saar, masb) to hero-tackle cruisers, or choice speedy dual overdrive interceptor setup to catch most annoying kiters still having reasonable survivablility or even become kiter yourself (!) with 150mm rails, MWD and MSE. |
Zathra Narazi
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
23
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Posted - 2016.05.23 00:03:20 -
[52] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:It's F'ING AWESOME!!! And affordable. Run one offensive plex and turn in the LP for a Fed Navy Comet. You guys must get way, way more LP than us. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1227
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Posted - 2016.05.23 00:59:19 -
[53] - Quote
John Lawyer Jr wrote:Zamiel en Distel wrote:I've just started participating in Gallente FW. I'm seeing that the frigate most preferred is the Federation Navy Comet. Is there any specific reason for this? One important thing about comet - you cannot evaluate comet without flying other.. 'inferior' ships. FN Comet is very flexible and hardly predictable ship - in addition to mentioned fits, you can fit great tank (hull buffer, saar, masb) to hero-tackle cruisers, or choice speedy dual overdrive interceptor setup to catch most annoying kiters still having reasonable survivablility or even become kiter yourself (!) with 150mm rails, MWD and MSE.
A comet is a better slicer(except tracking) if you fly to kite. PS fit a TD and cap rigs and watch SPL II slicers cry as their optimal is nerfed.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Doctor Knuckles
Black Fox Marauders
185
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Posted - 2016.05.23 08:26:02 -
[54] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:
A comet is a better slicer(except tracking) if you fly to kite. PS fit a TD and cap rigs and watch SPL II slicers cry as their optimal is nerfed.
God no. Slicer is king by miles if you know what you're doing.
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Milostiev
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
9
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Posted - 2016.05.29 13:32:56 -
[55] - Quote
Zamiel en Distel wrote:I've just started participating in Gallente FW. I'm seeing that the frigate most preferred is the Federation Navy Comet. Is there any specific reason for this?
Comet strikes a very good combination of elements in the current game, and it excells in 1 aspect, it's ehp. In low-sec, you need a frig with a good buffer tank, at least 3 mids dedicated to tackle, and ability to project dps well at 9k.
That's why ships like Comet and Tormentor are very popular and strong.
The obvious counter here is a ship that can kite at 19-20k or a ship that can get under the guns of the comet, though you will have to deal with drones in both of these situations (as it has a lot of ehp and it will take a while to kill it). |
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