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Cpt Mangrum
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
10
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Posted - 2016.03.23 16:13:44 -
[1] - Quote
Quick simple and short!
You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.
This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.
In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1211
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Posted - 2016.03.23 16:43:48 -
[2] - Quote
I'm with you on this. Not sure if there is a remedy that somehow wouldn't be abused though. (without serious micro-managed transactions from CCP)
The problem would be: Someone could purchase a character, then it really is his. Then the veteran would get full SP transfer. The whole program was designed so that newbs could have the opportunity to *catch up*. (Well, and generate RL income for CCP)
If what you're talking about is re-allocation for same character. That would almost have to be another program itself.
Remember: Before extractors, most pilots would have loved the prospect of being able to DELETE science or reprocessing skills for nothing. No return at all, except a cleaner character sheet. |
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two
76
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Posted - 2016.03.24 13:27:19 -
[3] - Quote
Cpt Mangrum wrote:Quick simple and short!
You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.
This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.
In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.
It is about as fair as how many of us trained mining skills in the first place because we were new and did not know better. Then we were stuck with those skills which were basically "wasted" skillpoints in 99.999% of our daily lives.
Getting a diminishing return is better than getting no return at all in you really want those skillpoints.
One of the main reasons that the diminishing returns was added was to prevent people from taking advantage of the situation. Think of a spy account or corp theft that could just move all their skills over to a new toon. You could buy an old toon of the bazaar and basically have a fully trained toon ready to do whatever you needed instantly.
Another reason was to prevent older toons from driving the price super high. The diminishing returns discourages older players from simply buying every skill as to do it, it would be super expensive.
YES, I KNOW THERE ARE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE WHO BOUGH MAX TOONS. THEY ARE THE EXCEPTION AND NOT THE RULE. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
610
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Posted - 2016.03.24 16:34:45 -
[4] - Quote
a river. crai me one?
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Skelee VI
Wraithguard. The Wraithguard.
56
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Posted - 2016.05.18 15:01:26 -
[5] - Quote
Another CPP gimmick to sell the game to noobs. We need the noobs not to be able to jump in ships they are not ready for. Let them train nice and easy. We had one noob could not fly decent frig but had skills for a BC |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1139
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Posted - 2016.05.18 15:25:19 -
[6] - Quote
skill extractors are not for veterans
/thread |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6068
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Posted - 2016.05.18 23:39:22 -
[7] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:skill extractors are not for veterans
/thread Skill extractors are for veterans.
Skill injectors are not for veterans.
/thread |
DriftedAway
Clan Winter-Wolf Army of New Eden
0
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Posted - 2016.05.19 11:31:40 -
[8] - Quote
Skelee VI wrote:Another CPP gimmick to sell the game to noobs. We need the noobs not to be able to jump in ships they are not ready for. Let them train nice and easy. We had one noob could not fly decent frig but had skills for a BC
sounds like me on my first account back on 2014... (i played 14 days and left do to the old lose skillpoints when you get podded)
i have to say i learned my lesson but ive been using skill injectors so i can actually fight back against a wardeck and to invest in skills. i might buy till i hit 4 million sp but then i have better things to spend money one |
Moustache Cuir
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.06.02 09:03:08 -
[9] - Quote
What's vetran? some kind of AD pills? Skill extractors are fine, they give the opportunity to newbies to catch up with older players (it's also a great way to help out an IRL friend that just started playing) - some of the newbies in my corp now play with that in mind: "whenever I have over 1.7b I'll buy an injector". Yet a *very* (VERY) small minority of players will truly be able to catch up, they'll need to make BUTTLOADS of iskies in order to do so. And if they do it through plexing, then it's no different from the character marketplace. |
Morgan Agrivar
Peace.Keepers
352
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Posted - 2016.07.04 12:34:47 -
[10] - Quote
Repeatedly bashes face against keyboard hoping that it will make the pain of reading this thread go away...
This would cure me of the fear...
CCP Explorer liked you forum post. Now my life is complete...
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Kalmr Varys
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.07.05 17:40:59 -
[11] - Quote
It would be very dumb to give the full 500k sp of an injector to an account with 80m+ sp.
It's a safe guess that during the design meetings for extractors/injectors, CCP debated the idea of allowing for an extractor to extract straight to unallocated SP on that account for no penalty. Why they decided to reject this we'll never know, but it's probably something they decided didn't add value to the game. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
294
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Posted - 2016.07.07 15:19:42 -
[12] - Quote
Think of how it would be abused if vets didn't lose SP with injectors. We're short of logi for the next fight? quick, dump all your SP and inject them into force auxiliaries. Now we need a T3 fleet to jump into a WH? Dump those logi skills and throw them into a proteus/gunnery. Get the idea?
There has to be a loss of SPs for vets to prevent abuse. Working as intended. |
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining The Bastion
117
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Posted - 2016.07.07 21:16:45 -
[13] - Quote
Eh there's still the cost of extractors to help prevent that from happening. You very well may be right that that's the reason, but I think it would have been less of an issue than you think |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1206
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Posted - 2016.07.27 08:24:11 -
[14] - Quote
Cpt Mangrum wrote:Quick simple and short!
You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.
This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.
In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.
skill injectors are neither designed for veterans nor are a SP respec tool. From this standpoint of view, your objection is void. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12665
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Posted - 2016.07.29 18:38:33 -
[15] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Cpt Mangrum wrote:Quick simple and short!
You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.
This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.
In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns. skill injectors are neither designed for veterans nor are a SP respec tool. From this standpoint of view, your objection is void.
Given the inaccuracy of your previous comment, your post is void.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
494
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Posted - 2016.07.30 07:50:37 -
[16] - Quote
Would it would be a reasonable idea to have several levels of injectors?
How about a 200k a 350k and then the 500k one?
It would still partly be an sp sink, just not as much...maybe.
I look at like this, an over 55 goes to buy some chocolate bars but can only get a pack of five, but then he's told he can only eat 3 and has to throw the other 2 away, next he gets told that no, he can't just buy 3, he has to get all 5 and pay for them! |
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2016.08.04 21:11:36 -
[17] - Quote
Cpt Mangrum wrote:Quick simple and short!
You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.
This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.
In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.
I imagine the language you are looking for is that the extractor has the requisite intelligence to recognize the exact brain the skill points came out of and returns them in toto.
The reason this is bad is: it eliminates the need to skill plan entirely. I just remap into Intel/Mem and never again have to remap. I just train the same skills over and over again whenever I need to train any off map skills and then just move the previously-trained-at-optimal-2700sp/hour-rate points. CCP will never do this unless they get rid of attributes and remapping entirely. |
Aspen Neva
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.08.22 17:33:21 -
[18] - Quote
Cpt Mangrum wrote:Quick simple and short!
You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.
This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.
In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.
Diminishing returns allow to avoid abuse of the system.
If you could transfert SP from one branch to an other without DR, then you would remap all skill points in two attributes, then only buy two implants and perma skill one branch. Then every now and then you would transfert SP to other branches.
DR is a good thing. I'm glad they made it and the DR tier are also very well thought and impactful in a good way. |
Christopher Mabata
Sentinel Incorporium
414
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Posted - 2016.09.11 16:05:24 -
[19] - Quote
TO be honest the diminishing returns didn't bother me that much, i sucked out all of my old Mining, reprocessing, and barge skills that i havent really used since early 2013 and replaced them with Missile, Gunnery, and other supporting skills that i will get much more use out of before i wind up in a retriever again. Sure i was extracting 500K and only getting what 300? 250k? I forget per booster but it still felt worth it to be able to say goodbye to skills that were gathering brain dust and instead do something productive with them.
GÖú Theory-Crafter GÖú Free Agent GÖú Immortal Space Pirate GÖú "Better the Devil you Know than the devil you don't" -Observing and dismantling F&I Discussion Threads since 2013Gäó
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Julius Priscus
352
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Posted - 2016.09.25 10:44:22 -
[20] - Quote
Skelee VI wrote:We need the noobs not to be able to jump in ships they are not ready for. Let them train nice and easy. We had one noob could not fly decent frig but had skills for a BC
players have been doing that since for ever.. and they will continue to do so. |
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radkid10
University of Caille Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2016.09.27 10:11:32 -
[21] - Quote
Cpt Mangrum wrote:Quick simple and short!
You extract SP from your main to move SP from mining skills to pvp, or vice versa and you still suffer the diminishing returns.
This is not fair in this specific situation even though you earned the SP fair and square by training it over time.
In this situation only you should not suffer diminishing returns.
hate it all you want but you're going to have to live with your mistakes
I made some pretty big mistakes myself
I wasted time on social skills then shortly after finishing a few of them I realized missions are boring
the difference is I can live with it it's something you need to learn |
PopeUrban
El Expedicion Flames of Exile
124
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Posted - 2016.10.05 20:18:05 -
[22] - Quote
Because the whole point of extractors is to offload unwanted skills to newer characters for ISK, not to losslessly tweak your own training every time you get bored of your old ships.
I'm honestly amazed there isn't an actual hardcap on them. The diminishing returns are more than fair. |
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