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Soolin
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Posted - 2003.12.13 21:29:00 -
[1]
Anyone know how much these refineries will cost? If we're talking hundreds of millions then I don't think many small mining corps will be leaving Empire space anytime soon (despite the iminent Empire refining penalties).
Hopefully refineries will be cheap enough for all.
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DarkasNight
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Posted - 2003.12.13 21:31:00 -
[2]
I would not bother with them from what ive heard they gobble 90% of any thing you put in them so they are not even going to be good for large corps.
Playing Underworld
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.12.13 21:36:00 -
[3]
erm, tbf small corps should_not (unless they are damn smart) be able to compete with large corps.
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Babar
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Posted - 2003.12.13 21:56:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
erm, tbf small corps should_not (unless they are damn smart) be able to compete with large corps.
Of course they should. Through specialization.
A small mining corp would have to hire protection for their mining operations from a merc corp, though.. And maybe hire a hauler corp as well, which also had to hire escorts.. ;)
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Kalar Vrask
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Posted - 2003.12.13 21:59:00 -
[5]
Quote:
erm, tbf small corps should_not (unless they are damn smart) be able to compete with large corps.
Are we playing the same game? It's all down to leadership dontcha know...
WB btw 
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Soolin
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Posted - 2003.12.13 22:00:00 -
[6]
Quote:
erm, tbf small corps should_not (unless they are damn smart) be able to compete with large corps.
Well I thought one of the ideas behind mobile refineries was to give an incentive to mining corps to leave Empire space?
There's tons of small mining corps in this game - not everyone wants to play in a mega corp like TTi. I hardly think a couple of mobile refineries (whatever their cost) are gonna allow those small corps to 'compete' with larger corps.
Also, the fact that you need to protect your refinery means only the largest corps will be able to do so with relative ease compared to the smaller corps. This alone should make the cost of refineries pretty resonable otherwise where's the incentive in investing in one?
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2003.12.13 22:29:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lansfear on 13/12/2003 22:31:02
Soolin, I hope refineries aren't *too* expensive. I'd say treat it like a ship, if you can afford one, wait till you can afford two, then leave empire space, CAREFULLY, and see how it goes. If they are 100 mil, no real problem even for a small 10 person corp. If they are a billion i'd say forget it and take other ventures.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.12.14 00:27:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Dianabolic on 14/12/2003 00:28:02
Quote:
Also, the fact that you need to protect your refinery means only the largest corps will be able to do so with relative ease compared to the smaller corps. This alone should make the cost of refineries pretty resonable otherwise where's the incentive in investing in one?
Which is exactly my point, anyone who's smart only uses stuff they can afford to lose. A small / dumb (the two aren't mutually exclusive) corp would_not be able to.
Thus, they won't be able to compete. As has already been noted, to use AND defend such a POS will require, at peak times, 15+ regular, esperienced, players - that, imo, isn't a small corp, it would equal a "paper" corp of about 40+.
And that is exactly how it should be, imo.
"Massively MULTIPLAYER online game"?
Vrask - yep, all about leadership. And thanks 
edit: Add MMOG
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Kalar Vrask
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Posted - 2003.12.14 01:03:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Edited by: Dianabolic on 14/12/2003 00:28:02
Quote:
Also, the fact that you need to protect your refinery means only the largest corps will be able to do so with relative ease compared to the smaller corps. This alone should make the cost of refineries pretty resonable otherwise where's the incentive in investing in one?
Which is exactly my point, anyone who's smart only uses stuff they can afford to lose. A small / dumb (the two aren't mutually exclusive) corp would_not be able to.
Thus, they won't be able to compete. As has already been noted, to use AND defend such a POS will require, at peak times, 15+ regular, esperienced, players - that, imo, isn't a small corp, it would equal a "paper" corp of about 40+.
And that is exactly how it should be, imo.
"Massively MULTIPLAYER online game"?
Vrask - yep, all about leadership. And thanks
edit: Add MMOG
Battleships can be protected with relative ease, however when they first hit the market, their cost was not considered 'reasonable', by comparison to the previous level of equipment, e.g. cruisers.
As we're both aware, when battleship BP's and therefore ships were first filtering into the economy, it was perfectly feasible for a small - five man I think? - team to quickly acquire an apocalypse original way before the many, many other corps significantly larger than themselves. I pick this example as this is still to date the most expensive readily available single asset a corp can own.
I for one personally know at least 5 individuals at this point in the game with personal assests > 2 billion ISK, I'm sure there's many more out there, and therefore many comparatively rich small corps.
"Massively MULTIPLAYER online game" simply means there are other players there to be interacted with. It doesn't all necessarily mean they have the priviledge of being in my team, nor does it mean that I have to work with any of them at all.
As for defending a POS, that's all down to strategy. I can personally own one, I don't have to personally defend it, however - I can employ people to do that. With clever deployment, I should imagine it's perfectly feasible not to have to defend it at all .
The benefits are obvious.
Nice try, still pwned though  .
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.12.14 01:59:00 -
[10]
The scenarios that are presented, however, do not entail "using" one, merely owning it.
So yeah, one man could own it - even rent it out as an option - but that is not "using" it in the sense I think the author of this thread intended.
And remember, I make the distinction between "large" and "smart" (remember these ""  )
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Kalar Vrask
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Posted - 2003.12.14 02:00:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kalar Vrask on 14/12/2003 02:06:28
Quote:
erm, tbf small corps should_not (unless they are damn smart) be able to compete with large corps.
I quote thee again
In addition the thread title says 'priced out', the poster asks about likely cost, and closes hoping they are cheap for all.
I'd say that's a post about the cost, not the use.
Don't admit you've been pwned though, will ya?
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.12.14 02:16:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Edited by: Kalar Vrask on 14/12/2003 02:06:28
Quote:
erm, tbf small corps should_not (unless they are damn smart) be able to compete with large corps.
I quote thee again
In addition the thread title says 'priced out', the poster asks about likely cost, and closes hoping they are cheap for all.
I'd say that's a post about the cost, not the use.
Don't admit you've been pwned though, will ya?
Never.
I'm interpeting it differently. Not to read too much in to it, he's stated that he doesn't think many small corps will be leaving empire space - that to me implies useage and, as we all know, cost is very much linked to useage.
ie everyone can afford it, everyone can use it.
Note the quote, "...damn smart..."
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Kalar Vrask
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Posted - 2003.12.14 02:21:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Never.
I'm interpeting it differently. Not to read too much in to it, he's stated that he doesn't think many small corps will be leaving empire space - that to me implies useage and, as we all know, cost is very much linked to useage.
ie everyone can afford it, everyone can use it.
Note the quote, "...damn smart..."
Ummm, kthnxbye I think 
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.14 07:17:00 -
[14]
I just wish that the dev's would come up with a final word for modile refineries as far as the % because 8%-10% is very very low and no way are ppl going to use it
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Other Minion
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Posted - 2003.12.14 07:52:00 -
[15]
Defending one, ummmm have an alt there, log on and archor when you need it, when done, log alt off with refinery in cargo.
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MrPops
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Posted - 2003.12.14 09:01:00 -
[16]
Mobile Refineries are useless in their current state. Hauling ore several jumps to a station is still more effective.
"The human species suffers from a dimensional limitation. They are not able to understand that matter and mind are just one aspect of something more fundamental. We must strive to expand our perspective so we can see what our true reality is."
Deep toughts by Mr.Pops, while consuming large quantities of Blue Pill and staring at the EVE gate in Genesis.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.14 09:25:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Mobile Refineries are useless in their current state. Hauling ore several jumps to a station is still more effective.
so why are the dev's bothering with releasing them if nobody is going to touch 8-10% refinery???
i dont understand they should spend some time else were... puting it in and making a useless item doesnt count as countent
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Halo Jones
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Posted - 2003.12.14 10:01:00 -
[18]
I've seen no evidence that mobile refiners will be within the mondya release of castor.
POS will make it for shiva, as most are aparently tech3, with mobos coming some time between now and then in a some fashion.
Oberon Incorporated. |
Jav Rendei
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Posted - 2003.12.14 10:26:00 -
[19]
I can't understand CCP's logic behind all this mobile refinery stuff  They want players to stop strip mining Empire systems in battleships so introduce stiff refining penalties - yet (according to rumour) they are going to make mobile refineries have even LESS efficiency than refineries in Empire spacestations??? And to top it all off, mobile refineries will most likely be a large investment and will probably need 24/7 protection!
Tell me where the insentive is for all those BS miners to leave Empire space - infact, I reckon you're going to see a LOT more BS miners in Empire space in the next few weeks despite the so called penalties. No one in their right mind will invest in a refinery that has less efficiency than one that is "free" to use in safe Empire systems.
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Old Winter
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Posted - 2003.12.14 11:41:00 -
[20]
Well maybe mobile refineries will be something that gets kitted out like all other ships in the game.
Say 8-10% is a base level, but with mods and skill enhancements that level of refining rises.
Maybe not great but then again maybe not too bad either. I doubt CCP want the things in safe space hoovering up belt after belt.
Maybe an overstatement but it illustrates a possibility if mobile refineries were too efficient.
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There are no bugs just locked threads |
Oosel
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Posted - 2003.12.14 12:30:00 -
[21]
lets face it ccp just doesnt want small corps around. they want mega corps just beating the s-h-i-t out of each other constantly. its a shame as i like this game so much but seeing how you are being forced into ganksville and not having trade working leaves you with few options
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Kojee
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Posted - 2003.12.14 15:00:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote:
erm, tbf small corps should_not (unless they are damn smart) be able to compete with large corps.
Of course they should. Through specialization.
A small mining corp would have to hire protection for their mining operations from a merc corp, though.. And maybe hire a hauler corp as well, which also had to hire escorts.. ;)
In the REAL world, a small company can't compete with a large company and expect to win. It should be the same way in EVE.
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Old Winter
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Posted - 2003.12.14 15:02:00 -
[23]
The problem is in the real world if you do not have the money to set up an asteroid mining business or spacecraft building enterprise you can always do telesales or sell burgers.
Eve isn't the real world you see.
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There are no bugs just locked threads |
Mena Kumari
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Posted - 2003.12.14 15:09:00 -
[24]
Quote:
lets face it ccp just doesnt want small corps around. they want mega corps just beating the s-h-i-t out of each other constantly. its a shame as i like this game so much but seeing how you are being forced into ganksville and not having trade working leaves you with few options
You know, I always believed whatever CCP did was for the good of the game (afterall they are the experts and should know), but I'm beginning to lose faith now. I think what you said here isn't a million miles from the truth.
The day will come where if you aren't in a very large corp or aren't part of some stupid alliance, you won't be welcome in EVE. The game is getting really close to alienating people who like to play freelance or like being part of smaller corps.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.12.14 15:11:00 -
[25]
Quote:
In the REAL world, a small company can't compete with a large company and expect to win.
Which is the reason why we have computergames 
Bring the freelancers, small and medium corps into a position where they can¦t compete and watch EvE die. It¦s those corporations and those people keeping the game alive, not megacorps kickstarted by Arkonor-Ninja-Mining
Apart from that I think there¦s no real reason why mob-refineries should only net 10%. A skillbased penalty starting at 70% or something would make sense IMO, but 10% do nothing more than providing a kickass reason for not using them.
Mai's Idealog |
Kojee
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Posted - 2003.12.14 19:17:00 -
[26]
Maybe a new skill will help?
The higher the skill level, the higher the value of having a mobile refinery. :P
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.14 21:53:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Well maybe mobile refineries will be something that gets kitted out like all other ships in the game.
Say 8-10% is a base level, but with mods and skill enhancements that level of refining rises.
Maybe not great but then again maybe not too bad either. I doubt CCP want the things in safe space hoovering up belt after belt.
Maybe an overstatement but it illustrates a possibility if mobile refineries were too efficient.
no wrong... the point of mobile refineries is so that you could go out 30+ jumps away from 0.0 stations and get the rare ore... not to stay in empire space... that would be probably a waste of isk... since there is a station in every place why the hell would you need a modile refinery in empire space??? when you dont even need to make one jump to refine?
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Reiisha
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Posted - 2003.12.14 21:58:00 -
[28]
Quote:
I would not bother with them from what ive heard they gobble 90% of any thing you put in them so they are not even going to be good for large corps.
That percentage will be lowerable with skills, something like 15% off per level of refinery ops.
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