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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
332
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Posted - 2016.04.07 00:28:23 -
[1] - Quote
Why are they different from t3 cruisers in this regard? I personally think it should take them longer to switch between modes too.
Its ok being a jack of all trades but not when the interims between each jack are so short. |
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
834
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Posted - 2016.04.07 00:53:36 -
[2] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Why are they different from t3 cruisers in this regard? I personally think it should take them longer to switch between modes too.
Its ok being a jack of all trades but not when the interims between each jack are so short.
you kind of late with proposal or don't remember how "powerfull" they wre upon start. What kind of skill loss you are suggesting, since there is no subsystems related skills on those? |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
332
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Posted - 2016.04.07 01:00:50 -
[3] - Quote
Tiddle Jr wrote:[quote=Terranid Meester]
What kind of skill loss you are suggesting, since there is no subsystems related skills on those?
Just a level of the racial tech 3 destroyer skill. If you have Gallente Tactical Destroyer 5 it goes to 4, if you have 1 it goes to 0. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
13854
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Posted - 2016.04.07 01:58:47 -
[4] - Quote
Someone recently got killed by a T3D....
This idea would make them unused, it's ok with T3 Cruisers, they don't die all that often, T3Ds die if you sneeze on them. |
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
834
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Posted - 2016.04.07 03:17:12 -
[5] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Tiddle Jr wrote:[quote=Terranid Meester]
What kind of skill loss you are suggesting, since there is no subsystems related skills on those? Just a level of the racial tech 3 destroyer skill. If you have Gallente Tactical Destroyer 5 it goes to 4, if you have 1 it goes to 0.
Well i find my vindicator damn strong, should you consider to lose one of the racial BS skill if i got killed. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
627
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Posted - 2016.04.07 03:27:39 -
[6] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Just a level of the racial tech 3 destroyer skill. If you have Gallente Tactical Destroyer 5 it goes to 4, if you have 1 it goes to 0.
The cruiser subsystem skills are all Rank 1.
The Tactical Destroyer skill is Rank 3.
So you'd make the penalty for dying in a Tactical Dessy three times the penalty for dying in a Strategic Cruiser?
You could, theoretically, die 21 times in a T3C before being unable to fly one at all versus dying five times in a T3D before being unable to fly one?
Your argument is invalid.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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pushdogg
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
150
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Posted - 2016.04.07 05:19:20 -
[7] - Quote
I really wish I could see the mail that inspired this.
Maybe you could show us, and we could critique your fit. |
Ria Nieyli
42922
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Posted - 2016.04.07 08:11:29 -
[8] - Quote
Just what the game needs, more SP loss for players! Did you think this through before posting?
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
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Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
181
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Posted - 2016.04.07 08:38:08 -
[9] - Quote
What we need is to remove Skill Penalties for Strategic Cruisers! Not the other way around!
In fact, what we really need is a Tech 3 tierside. Remove those "subsytem" shennenigans and just make Strategic Cruisers adaptable with a click of a button like their Tech 3 Destroyer cousins.
Also, Guristas SKIN Tengus. Guristas SKIN All The Things! |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
1637
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Posted - 2016.04.07 08:51:29 -
[10] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Why are they different from t3 cruisers in this regard? I personally think it should take them longer to switch between modes too.
Its ok being a jack of all trades but not when the interims between each jack are so short.
Because artificial limitations always yield great gameplay.... /s |
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
1070
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Posted - 2016.04.07 09:56:44 -
[11] - Quote
I propose we give bring back the clone mechanics for OP only. We will be using the current one while OP goes back to the previous clone mechanics.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Constantine Arcanum
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2016.04.07 10:38:16 -
[12] - Quote
T3Ds are too fragile to warrant a skillpoint loss on death IMO. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3133
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Posted - 2016.04.07 11:18:48 -
[13] - Quote
No ship should be balanced around a loss skillpoints mechanic.
T3C's should get rid of it and be actually balanced rather than OP with the excuse but 'It's ok because if I lose (which I won't because I'm OP) I lose SP!'
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DED Capsuleer
DED Drug Enforcement Department
9
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Posted - 2016.04.07 11:32:19 -
[14] - Quote
How about we get rid of skill loss instead? It was a terrible "balance" mechanic to begin with.
At least before skill injectors it was a mechanic that affected everyone equally. Now, the ISK wealthy can scruff it off and buy an injector.
With skill injectors entering the market, it's quite iffy for CCP to have a game mechanic with skill loss. |
Yarosara Ruil
Haighare Pirates
183
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Posted - 2016.04.07 11:54:12 -
[15] - Quote
DED Capsuleer wrote:How about we get rid of skill loss instead? It was a terrible "balance" mechanic to begin with.
At least before skill injectors it was a mechanic that affected everyone equally. Now, the ISK wealthy can scruff it off and buy an injector.
With skill injectors entering the market, it's quite iffy for CCP to have a game mechanic with skill loss.
That's not a fair assessment! The Imperium could be welping hundreds of Strategic Cruisers every day for a whole month and it still wouldn't come close to the amount of skill points lost with Skill Injectors.
If anything, Skill Injectors have filled the role that clone grade skill losses left vacant. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
132
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Posted - 2016.04.07 15:01:19 -
[16] - Quote
Since you 'magically' forget how to do something you were trained to do if you loose your T3 cruiser... why not?
I'm not a fan of game mechanics for the heck of it. The Skillpoint 'loss' should go away on cruisers and if you want to make a real loss, force any T3 pilot to have an implant to interface with the ship and the implant is lost on loss of ship. That can at least have a 'rational' explanation rather than.... "Well, you forget this because of magic pixie fairies."
Since character learning and memory is perfect in this game, artificial reasons to 'lose' it are a little silly. I don't think you should ever lose SP since it's a stand in for XP in other MMO's.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Xtreem
Knockaround Guys Inc.
Sin City Coalition
422
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Posted - 2016.04.07 15:04:03 -
[17] - Quote
No |
Salt Foambreaker
Greedy Pirates
19
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Posted - 2016.04.07 15:04:41 -
[18] - Quote
Skill loss is not what it once was.
Now you go back to the station, get another ship, and use an injector.
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Lasisha Mishi
Imperial Guardians
The Aurora Shadow
10
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Posted - 2016.04.07 17:06:23 -
[19] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Why are they different from t3 cruisers in this regard? I personally think it should take them longer to switch between modes too.
Its ok being a jack of all trades but not when the interims between each jack are so short.
uh no
T3 cruisers can be greatly customized with cloak, support, dmg, and so on.
4 different customizations for each of the (5?) systems.
T3 destroyers can't (i WISH my confessor could cloak). they just get a medium bonus to 2 things at a time. with a 10 secound cooldown between them.
so customization for t3d.....isn't there. you can't choose between a drone or beam fit confessor.
or a railgun or missile jackdaw.
you can't cloak them, or make them immune to bubbles.
you can't give them a major boost to power grid, cpu, cap recharge, or shield capacity.
instead, T3D get 3 of the t3c's systems. 3 default ones. and can have one active at a time.
so....lets count.
20 options where you can have 5 each with 4 options active at once
or 3 options where only 1 is active at a time.
so no. T3D shouldnt have the downside of T3C because they can't be customized to the extent of T3C.
only way they should be given the downsides of T3C is if they are given the massive customizing option the cruisers have.
like a confessor that can cover ops cloak, be immune to bubbles, have 42.5% shield booster bonus, 25% cap recharge bonus(or was it more), and a major sensor booster bonus.
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Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
Circle-Of-Two
94
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Posted - 2016.04.07 17:11:19 -
[20] - Quote
Post with your main lol.
Your killboard activity is non-existent since last year where you lost two t3ds.
Skill Point loss for destroyers would make them unusable due to the 3x level. |
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Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics.
Tactical Supremacy
122
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Posted - 2016.04.07 17:21:11 -
[21] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Just what the game needs, more SP loss for players! Did you think this through before posting?
What this game needs is T3D's that don't make Frigs/Dessies irrelevant. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
17591
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Posted - 2016.04.07 18:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:What we need is to remove Skill Penalties for Strategic Cruisers! Not the other way around!
In fact, what we really need is a Tech 3 tierside. Remove those "subsytem" shennenigans and just make Strategic Cruisers adaptable with a click of a button like their Tech 3 Destroyer cousins.
Also, Guristas SKIN Tengus. Guristas SKIN All The Things!
I like the SP loss. It's the one shiploss cost that actually means something.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2725
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Posted - 2016.04.07 20:58:54 -
[23] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Yarosara Ruil wrote:What we need is to remove Skill Penalties for Strategic Cruisers! Not the other way around!
In fact, what we really need is a Tech 3 tierside. Remove those "subsytem" shennenigans and just make Strategic Cruisers adaptable with a click of a button like their Tech 3 Destroyer cousins.
Also, Guristas SKIN Tengus. Guristas SKIN All The Things! I like the SP loss. It's the one shiploss cost that actually means something.
The ship loss mean nothing to some while it means a lot to others. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose is completely based on the fact that different ship have different value which is lost when you lose them. If you are rich enough to shrug off any losses, it does not mean it's the same for everyone. |
P3ps1 Max
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
31
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Posted - 2016.04.07 21:45:20 -
[24] - Quote
I don't think an entire level would be fair. Maybe 1/3 of the skill points currently allocated at their current level be reduced. Then again I'm not a fan in general with a reduction in skill points. I beleive there should be an alternative method. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
137
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Posted - 2016.04.07 22:47:43 -
[25] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I like the SP loss. It's the one shiploss cost that actually means something.
With injectors, it's all just ISK... it doesn't mean anything to anyone that didn't leverage a ton of their ISK resources to get into their T3 Cruiser (and in the case the OP is proposing T3 Destroyers) and then lost it and the training and can't afford to replace it quickly.
Thus, it punishes the newer players in smaller corps more than the older players with resources to laugh it off. So it's not about meaning something, it's about why the mechanic is in place.
The only reason I see is a perception that it 'hurts' and as I just pointed out, 'hurt' depends on your resources. So the mechanic is somewhat bogus to start, it appears to be a minor hurdle to hold a hand up to newer characters to keep them from jumping full guns into T3 ships from the starting gate, but a true newbie would have no idea how to do that and an experienced player is already sending the new toon a ton of injectors and ISK... so... bogus logic.
If that is the ONLY reason the mechanic exists, then I gave a counter mechanic that actually makes sense and keeps SP a relatively pure progressive path. So, take your pick, SP thievery or just buy another implant that is 'perma-coded' to the ship. It becomes worthless when the ship does.
If someone can point out why this was done, I'm all eyes...  
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Wanda Fayne
170
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Posted - 2016.04.07 23:31:23 -
[26] - Quote
Just rebalance the svipul and confessor.
For real this time.
Hecate and jackdaw are fine.
Problem solved. |
Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
75
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Posted - 2016.04.08 00:34:12 -
[27] - Quote
My little girl would come to me and say, "Daddy! Daddy! There's a mean old monster in my closet!" Now, cute as that was, it didn't require an hour's long explanation with cross-referencing and reams of justifications to get her back to sleep.
My son, on the other hand, would realize it was coming time to mow that lawn again and he'd suddenly wax philosophically about how proper it was for yards to grow naturally, as if they were some part of the wooded environment...with squirrels and woodchucks... I didn't spend a lot of breath arguing the logic behind
suburban lawn maintenance with him....
If you catch my drift. |
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
81
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Posted - 2016.04.08 01:40:37 -
[28] - Quote
Yarosara Ruil wrote:What we need is to remove Skill Penalties for Strategic Cruisers! Not the other way around!
Maybe... but I'm leaning toward no.
Yarosara Ruil wrote:In fact, what we really need is a Tech 3 tierside. Remove those "subsytem" shennenigans and just make Strategic Cruisers adaptable with a click of a button like their Tech 3 Destroyer cousins.
Absolutely not, terrible idea. If anything T3 destroyers should have subsystems like the T3 cruisers.
Yarosara Ruil wrote:Also, Guristas SKIN Tengus. Guristas SKIN All The Things!
Sure, why not. Of course they'd have to make a separate skin model for every configuration combination of the Tengu. So CCP will probably say no. But I actually do like the idea of being able to do custom paint jobs (not just Gurista's) on all ships (not just Tengu's). |
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
81
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Posted - 2016.04.08 01:43:38 -
[29] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Since character learning and memory is perfect in this game, artificial reasons to 'lose' it are a little silly. I don't think you should ever lose SP since it's a stand in for XP in other MMO's.
There are games where xp loss on death is a thing. I actually dislike games that don't have this. |
Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage
RAZOR Alliance
754
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Posted - 2016.04.08 06:20:09 -
[30] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Someone recently got killed by a T3D....
This idea would make them unused, it's ok with T3 Cruisers, they don't die all that often, T3Ds die if you sneeze on them.
What?
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Mephiztopheleze
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
636
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Posted - 2016.04.08 06:35:11 -
[31] - Quote
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:There are games where xp loss on death is a thing. I actually dislike games that don't have this.
hehe, Hardcore mode Diablo II.
You die, you're dead. Roll a new 'toon.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Ria Nieyli
43002
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Posted - 2016.04.08 09:57:03 -
[32] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Just what the game needs, more SP loss for players! Did you think this through before posting? What this game needs is T3D's that don't make Frigs/Dessies irrelevant.
T3Ds are well and truly needed tool for the soloist in today's meta. Also, you can kill a T3D in a tech 1 frig or destroyer, depending on the fittings. They're not immortal, you know.
Mephiztopheleze wrote:hehe, Hardcore mode Diablo II.
You die, you're dead. Roll a new 'toon.
Played a lot of that back in the day. I miss that game.
Wanda Fayne wrote:Just rebalance the svipul and confessor.
For real this time.
Hecate and jackdaw are fine.
Problem solved.
Confessor power levels are in line, considering that it only has 3 midslots. It's also extremely susceptible to tracking disruption.
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
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