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Kael D'mende Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:00:00 - [1] Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P Regards. /Kael
Jamirie Lyla Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:15:00 - [2] Anyone have the link to what Tux said? I missed it
Xeliya Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:18:00 - [3] I will leave them just like they were before Kali, after kali most ships could go another 2km/s faster. Ive seen nano phoons and nano domis going faster then my crow. It is also possible to get ceptors up over 30km/s if you will use implants. ----------
Malcanis Galactech Industries Ltd. Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:20:00 - [4] Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P Ehm, so now that every other race can't have your advantage, that's a problem for you?
Monkey Spankah coracao ardente	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:32:00 - [5] no what he is saying is that once CCP nerfs every race ship that nanos are useless were does that leave minmitar who are supose to be fast and gain thsoe speeds using nanos, the only way i see to stop this nerfign minmitar is add a bonus that cause the new negative effects of nanos and mwds to not effect minmitar ships. Signature removed, please avoid using images involving relgious symbols like that. -Ivan K
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:36:00 - [6] Presumably it will leave Minnies faster than the other ships being speed nerfed.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:38:00 - [7] Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P We will be left with our superior warfare target painting.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:39:00 - [8] This speednerf will indeed be a boost to minmatar if correctly done. Because it will make the amout of low slots less relevant on speed. Specially if tux makes nanofibers add percentage of base speed not a single value. The only proposition i Dint liked was of makinf each nano,over and istab affect a single thing. That would make the modules as useless as the overdrive its now (really who uses them?) Just make all speed oens affect in % (and so stack nerfed with snakes)and make agility stack nerfed. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:39:00 - [9] Originally by: Jamirie Anyone have the link to what Tux said? I missed it Dev Blog. -------- Originally by: Constantine Arcanum most problems can be solved with chloroform.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:41:00 - [10] Gallente are the lords of friggen CARGO BAYS... our pos's... our cruisers (CCP exequror wtf.. i mean we have nice ones to play with but... just... why?) Make matar the lords of salvage, keep it to the storyline Everyone needs some lovin with the patches, in various ways.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P Hit an run isnt broken. Nanoships are broken in that they obviate smaller ships that are supposed to hit and run. Minmatar ships can tank like the best of them if setup to tank[7 lows on thypoon, strongest absolute shield tank in the game(while still doing damage)on the Maelstrom, same number of lows on thorax and rupture, same number of lows on Hurricane as Harbinger. Cyclone fits a nasty shield tank. Same number of lows on tempest as hyperion. Fastest teir 3 frigate in the game has 3 mids and 3 lows allowing a good shield or armor tank. All in all you have nothing to worry about. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Xurx Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:46:00 - [12] Quote: Speed nerf leaves Minmatar what ? Our sexy looks
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P Hit an run isnt broken. Nanoships are broken in that they obviate smaller ships that are supposed to hit and run. Minmatar ships can tank like the best of them if setup to tank[7 lows on thypoon, strongest absolute shield tank in the game(while still doing damage)on the Maelstrom, same number of lows on thorax and rupture, same number of lows on Hurricane as Harbinger. Cyclone fits a nasty shield tank. Same number of lows on tempest as hyperion. Fastest teir 3 frigate in the game has 3 mids and 3 lows allowing a good shield or armor tank. All in all you have nothing to worry about. the resistance bonus on Caldari are far better than the booster bonus. The minmatar shield tankers have less mids than caldari and far less shield HP. No we cannot tank as well. But speed is mostly intended to rule out distance of engagement, and not be an absolute tank. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:47:00 - [14] Capless weapons?
Xander XacXorien	Posted - 2007.02.16 11:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kael D'mende (Tux nerf) Ehm, so now that every other race can't have your advantage, that's a problem for you? Flame on. Erhm given that Caldari seem to have the monopoly on almost everything else, Yes. Flame off. Seriously though. Isn't it time a group of players had a direct input on the design and layout on ships ? I know someone said this happens, I heard this about a year ago. If this IS the case then these people need replacing. Decisions keep coming out biased and the resultant mess is left in place for years while the players suffer. It's not unreasonable given the time these skills take to learn (And the RL money being shelled out by customers) to expect each ship to have a role. The minmatar carrier is a classic example of design in the toilet bowl. My other long term gripe has been the Skill Points required to maximise a ships potential. Most minmatar ships require Gunnery, Missiles and Drone skills - where as a lot of Caldari ships only require one or two skill sets. Yet given minmatar were bad 2 years ago and they are still bad now I don't expect any movement. Caldari FTW and I don't expect this to change. I've waited for over 2 years now. Unfortunately it's either quit Eve or shut up.
Ugleb Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:00:00 - [16] I think that the point Tux was making is that they have lost any kind of balance over speed across the whole game. NanoBS are the extreme tip of the iceberg. 7km/s Domi's were never meant to be. The trick is going to be rebalancing across the board while not taking away one of the key Minmatar racial characteristics - generally better speed than other races. When I started EVE I picked Minmatar because of their description of being light, fast and stealthy. Stealthy is their slightly lower sig, light is in comparison to other races; we dont tank as well as others across the board our cruisers are IMO generally more fragile. We have lost our speed character. Previous patches have slowed us down and today I don't think the differences are very notable. Again I am talking generally across the board, yes Vaga's are fast but then look at the Nano domi or Amarr inties.
Gutsani Uninvited Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:01:00 - [17] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Capless weapons? Well, more the bonus of using capless weapons, since you can fit em on every race of ships. I'm more wondering that speed nerfing will nerf soloing, since with the introduction of large bubbles its really easy to camp a gate. And the only way to fight those things was the speed, nerfing it will influence that alot. Can we get a serious HP decrease for bubbles (or some other way to get out of them without pressing ctrl+q)? Preferable give small bubbles more HP then big ones. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Patamon	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:05:00 - [18] From what I have read I do not thing this will do much to nerf the frigates which are supposed to be the games speed demons. This is meant to impact Battleships and larger cruisers that where never intended to be speed monsters.
Ugleb Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:12:00 - [19] Edited by: Ugleb on 16/02/2007 12:09:10 Originally by: Gutsani I'm more wondering that speed nerfing will nerf soloing, since with the introduction of large bubbles its really easy to camp a gate. And the only way to fight those things was the speed, nerfing it will influence that alot. Can we get a serious HP decrease for bubbles (or some other way to get out of them without pressing ctrl+q)? Preferable give small bubbles more HP then big ones. The problem with this is that bubbles are quite expensive, you don't want a situation where they just pop so easily that no-one can afford to use them. Also bubbles can take a long time to setup and unanchor; around 8 minutes for large I think so its not as if they can just be dropped at a whim. And once they are down you have to protect them as you cant just scoop and leg it.
Gutsani Uninvited Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Ugleb The problem with this is that bubbles are quite expensive, you don't want a situation where they just pop so easily that no-one can afford to use them. Also bubbles can take a long time to setup and unanchor; around 8 minutes for large I think so its not as if they can just be dropped at a whim. And once they are down you have to protect them as you cant just scoop and leg it. But if your gonna solo, your not gonna know whats on the other side of every gate, you can expect where the bubbles will be, but you can never be 100% sure if you dont have a covert ops alt. Even if they take 8 minutes to put online, there should be a way to get out of them without logging off. Maybe a better idea to not make em scramble you but reduce your agility? Ea, not able to speed up and warp away so fast, but not make em web you (speed to get back to the gate if possible). ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:22:00 - [21] Off the top of my head we get weapons that don't use cap and have some versitility in choice of damage type, excellent dps whilst still tanking, and versitility. It's not all perfect but I'm happy, especially when people keep trying to agro my maelstrom. sgb
Bellum Eternus Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.16 12:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P Moved from General Discussion and linkage added! -Suvetar http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=427 It isn't broke. It is useful. And it isn't getting nerfed. If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.
Kael D'mende Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P Ehm, so now that every other race can't have your advantage, that's a problem for you? huh?, no what i was saying is that most minmatar ships dont do anything good, so most setups use speed tanks, and with the nerf to said mods, that will fall away, so we'r left with useless ships. Or atleast ships that have better counterparts. Regards. /Kael
Kael D'mende Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P We will be left with our superior warfare target painting. lol, ohh ya forgot about our secret weapon of d00m heh Regards. /Kael
Kael D'mende Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:23:00 - [25] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Capless weapons? ohh please! Regards. /Kael
Kael D'mende Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:25:00 - [26] Edited by: Kael D''mende on 16/02/2007 14:24:52 Originally by: Xander XacXorien Unfortunately it's either quit Eve or shut up. Just sad it have to be this way :O( and ya im on the over 2 year wagon aswell.. Bring out your dead... ding ding... Regards. /Kael
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:29:00 - [27] The nerf on the MWD is bet thing to happen to minmatar in a long long time!! Our native speed advantage will be more meaningfull since much less ships will be using MWD! Our signature will mean sometyhing, since we wont NEED to have an MWD in our ships to catch even a hauler... If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Kagura Nikon The only proposition i Dint liked was of makinf each nano,over and istab affect a single thing. That would make the modules as useless as the overdrive its now (really who uses them?) The reason Overdrives aren't used isn't because they only affect one stat, it's because nanos affect two. If you take away the nanos' multiple effects, bam people have to decide whether they want top speed (overdrives), agility(nanos), or MWD/AB efficiency(istabs). --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Kagura Nikon the resistance bonus on Caldari are far better than the booster bonus. The minmatar shield tankers have less mids than caldari and far less shield HP. No we cannot tank as well. But speed is mostly intended to rule out distance of engagement, and not be an absolute tank. Nope. False, try again. Resistance bonus is: lv 1: 5.26% effective rep amount and HP boost lv 2: 11.1% " " lv 3: 17.64% " " lv 4: 25% " " lv 5: 33.33% " " Boost amount bonus is: Lv 1: 7.5% rep amount lv 2: 15% " " lv 3: 22.5% " " lv 4: 30% " " lv 5: 37.5% " " The resistance bonus has an increasing return, and the rep amount bonus a linear return. The resistance bonus also effectivly boosts HP buffer and passive regen. The boost amount is stronger in absolute terms and stronger at lower skill levels. Many times by clear margins. This means that even at level 5 ship skill, the maelstrom has the strongest absolute tank in the game. Especialy since boost amp IIs were brought in boosting shield boosting efficiency and quality. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Stutka Driver Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.16 14:54:00 - [30] Change keeps things fresh and interesting, and it keeps the market from stagnating. Never will everyone be happy with the direction taken. I trust that the same people that created my favorite MMOG have the vision and the ingenuity to keep EVE on it's feet and please most of the community most of the time. My current PVP ship relies on speed, but it's not a battle ship. I'm confident that even with the changes my ship will still be RELATIVELY faster than most. Players whith skill sets that are very narrowly specialized will always be vulnerable to change, but that's just like real life.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.02.16 15:04:00 - [31] Edited by: Tasty Burger on 16/02/2007 15:02:05 Speed tanks still need to be viable. Afterburners are useless for normal pvp because its not just not getting hit, you need the speed of a MWD for many things like getting out of bubbles, tackling, and escaping. Minmatar should get bonuses to afterburner velocity tbh, to make them almost as fast as MWDs. That way they can speed tank. I'd also say autocannons should track much better, but well... can't have everything. Nerfing MWD will break the game in unexpected ways. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
DarkElf Caldari Veto. Academy	Posted - 2007.02.16 15:07:00 - [32] oh ffs stop whining until you know what actually happening. minmatar hit and run tactics worked fine before going 3-4000m/s in a vaga and will in future 'if' they nerf it. but doing 8k in a vaga is silly. this is what they are proposing to change. and i say again 'proposing'. show a little trust in the devs that they do actually understand balancing and complain if u don't like what happens. DE
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2007.02.16 15:17:00 - [33] Originally by: DarkElf oh ffs stop whining until you know what actually happening. minmatar hit and run tactics worked fine before going 3-4000m/s in a vaga and will in future 'if' they nerf it. but doing 8k in a vaga is silly. this is what they are proposing to change. and i say again 'proposing'. Why is it silly? Its not like you can track anything at that speed, its only used for escaping and getting a tackle, which is basically what the Vagabond is for. Its nothing like a nanophoon. And that speed is only when you pimp the thing out with snakes... an interceptor can go about twice as fast when equally pimped. I'd go as far as saying the Vagabond is almost pointless with the nanophoon as it is. Cruiser-sized hulls are not unbalanced at all right now, its only nanoBS that are the problem. - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
M00dy Stain of Mind DAMAGE INC...	Posted - 2007.02.16 15:34:00 - [34] Two quotes from Tux really makes me worried for Eve. Quote: Combat in EVE was always supposed to be more about tactics and strategy rather than twitch movement. I know a lot of the community enjoy that style of gameplay but it just isn't EVE. No more twitch movement in Eve. This nerf is going to be more than just rolling back i-stabs. This one has me very angry. Quote: When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight. This means no Guerrilla Warfare. No small gangs being able to harass a large blob. No more hit and run tactics. HAXORZ TO THE MAXORZ BABY, YEAH!!!
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:28:00 - [35] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kagura Nikon the resistance bonus on Caldari are far better than the booster bonus. The minmatar shield tankers have less mids than caldari and far less shield HP. No we cannot tank as well. But speed is mostly intended to rule out distance of engagement, and not be an absolute tank. Nope. False, try again. Resistance bonus is: lv 1: 5.26% effective rep amount and HP boost lv 2: 11.1% " " lv 3: 17.64% " " lv 4: 25% " " lv 5: 33.33% " " Boost amount bonus is: Lv 1: 7.5% rep amount lv 2: 15% " " lv 3: 22.5% " " lv 4: 30% " " lv 5: 37.5% " " The resistance bonus has an increasing return, and the rep amount bonus a linear return. The resistance bonus also effectivly boosts HP buffer and passive regen. The boost amount is stronger in absolute terms and stronger at lower skill levels. Many times by clear margins. This means that even at level 5 ship skill, the maelstrom has the strongest absolute tank in the game. Especialy since boost amp IIs were brought in boosting shield boosting efficiency and quality. Res bonus: 0% -> 25% 60% -> 70% 40% -> 55% 20% -> 40% Average res: 30% -> 47.5% tank mod: 1.43x -> 1.9x Large Booster: 240 hp 4 sec cycle With res bonus: 240 * 1.9 = 456 hp 456 / 4 = 114 hp/cycle with shield booster bonus: 240 * 1.43 * 1.375 = 471.9 hp 471.9 / 4 = 117 hp/cycle Add in the effective HP increase from the increased resistances (plus the passive recharge increase) and I have no idea how you say shield booster bonus > res bonus. It's been proved many times in the past resistance bonuses are better than the active tanking version. And while your mentioning shield boost amps, remember you avoid the stacking penalty for fitting resistance module since you have a first built in. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:31:00 - [36] Edited by: Goumindong on 16/02/2007 16:30:20 Clearly the "proofs" are wrong because tanking figured are created from a linear and predictable system which can be normalized at each indiviudal step. If you tank 100 DPS and get a 37.5% boost amount then you tank 137.5 dps if you get a 25% resistance boost you tank 133.33 dps Its that simple. The Maelstrom has the best absolute tank in the game. It has a smaller HP buffer than the Rokh[but capless weapons], but its still the best absolute tank in the game. As well, boost bonuses are better the lower the ship skill is. With resistance boosts getting better the higher the ship skill. All about trade-offs. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:36:00 - [37] When will CCP realize that gentle tweaking is better than mass overhaul? Nano's and istabs need a stacking penalty. That is all. But of course CCP decides that rather than just nerfing that, they're going to nerf ALL high speed combat. What good is a ceptor that can't run its MWD forever? Seriously? WTS: a clue. Shamis Signature quote removed - It was too much for my little virgin eyes. Jacques([email protected])
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz When will CCP realize that gentle tweaking is better than mass overhaul? Nano's and istabs need a stacking penalty. That is all. But of course CCP decides that rather than just nerfing that, they're going to nerf ALL high speed combat. What good is a ceptor that can't run its MWD forever? Seriously? WTS: a clue. Shamis They arent looking to nerf all high speed combat, read the blog and his comments. If i were you, i would take that clue off the market before someone buys it and you are left out on the cold. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 16/02/2007 16:30:20 Clearly the "proofs" are wrong because tanking figured are created from a linear and predictable system which can be normalized at each indiviudal step. If you tank 100 DPS and get a 37.5% boost amount then you tank 137.5 dps if you get a 25% resistance boost you tank 133.33 dps Its that simple. The Maelstrom has the best absolute tank in the game. It has a smaller HP buffer than the Rokh[but capless weapons], but its still the best absolute tank in the game. As well, boost bonuses are better the lower the ship skill is. With resistance boosts getting better the higher the ship skill. All about trade-offs. Do some reading up. You still think that the highest hp repped = best tank... that isn't the case! Read that topic, cos it isn't as simple as you make it out to be. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 16:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Mila Prestoc Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 16/02/2007 16:30:20 Clearly the "proofs" are wrong because tanking figured are created from a linear and predictable system which can be normalized at each indiviudal step. If you tank 100 DPS and get a 37.5% boost amount then you tank 137.5 dps if you get a 25% resistance boost you tank 133.33 dps Its that simple. The Maelstrom has the best absolute tank in the game. It has a smaller HP buffer than the Rokh[but capless weapons], but its still the best absolute tank in the game. As well, boost bonuses are better the lower the ship skill is. With resistance boosts getting better the higher the ship skill. All about trade-offs. Do some reading up. You still think that the highest hp repped = best tank... that isn't the case! Read that topic, cos it isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Yes, what part of "best absolute tank" do you not get? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.02.16 17:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Mila Prestoc Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 16/02/2007 16:30:20 Clearly the "proofs" are wrong because tanking figured are created from a linear and predictable system which can be normalized at each indiviudal step. If you tank 100 DPS and get a 37.5% boost amount then you tank 137.5 dps if you get a 25% resistance boost you tank 133.33 dps Its that simple. The Maelstrom has the best absolute tank in the game. It has a smaller HP buffer than the Rokh[but capless weapons], but its still the best absolute tank in the game. As well, boost bonuses are better the lower the ship skill is. With resistance boosts getting better the higher the ship skill. All about trade-offs. Do some reading up. You still think that the highest hp repped = best tank... that isn't the case! Read that topic, cos it isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Yes, what part of "best absolute tank" do you not get? boosting != absolute tank... shesh. Absolute = complete, perfect, positive, certain, unconditional... ect ect So your statement is saying the maelstroms tank is the most complete/perfect tank when it is actually the largest hp repairing tank. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 17:09:00 - [42] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kagura Nikon the resistance bonus on Caldari are far better than the booster bonus. The minmatar shield tankers have less mids than caldari and far less shield HP. No we cannot tank as well. But speed is mostly intended to rule out distance of engagement, and not be an absolute tank. Nope. False, try again. Resistance bonus is: lv 1: 5.26% effective rep amount and HP boost lv 2: 11.1% " " lv 3: 17.64% " " lv 4: 25% " " lv 5: 33.33% " " Boost amount bonus is: Lv 1: 7.5% rep amount lv 2: 15% " " lv 3: 22.5% " " lv 4: 30% " " lv 5: 37.5% " " The resistance bonus has an increasing return, and the rep amount bonus a linear return. The resistance bonus also effectivly boosts HP buffer and passive regen. The boost amount is stronger in absolute terms and stronger at lower skill levels. Many times by clear margins. This means that even at level 5 ship skill, the maelstrom has the strongest absolute tank in the game. Especialy since boost amp IIs were brought in boosting shield boosting efficiency and quality. that is only true if your repair capability is overally equal to the income damage. If the income damage is much higher than your tank capability (like in 99% of cases of PVP) the resistances will mean a lot more. Just make the calculations. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 17:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Bardi MecAuldnis Originally by: Kagura Nikon The only proposition i Dint liked was of makinf each nano,over and istab affect a single thing. That would make the modules as useless as the overdrive its now (really who uses them?) The reason Overdrives aren't used isn't because they only affect one stat, it's because nanos affect two. If you take away the nanos' multiple effects, bam people have to decide whether they want top speed (overdrives), agility(nanos), or MWD/AB efficiency(istabs). it is.. istabs had ony 1 bennefit. No one used. Now they have 2. pepole use it. Most ships don't have enough spare lows to use this system. My autopest have 1 spare low. A single nano is a perfecct solution. That gives the extra speed and agility i need. Also overdrives have a too big penalty. Cargo is too much important in combat. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Jerick Ludhowe Internet Tough Guys Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.16 17:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Omega Man Presumably it will leave Minnies faster than the other ships being speed nerfed. Shhhh.... stop being reasonable this is the Eve-O forums. Where baseless un thought out whines are king. I do agree with you though. Ballance is relative and if everything is effected by a nerf to speed then I don't see the problem. Matari ships will still be able to dictate range however they will actually be vulnerable to ships if they fack up rather than being able to leave whenever they want (talking about nano ships not all matari). Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 17:19:00 - [45] Originally by: Mila Prestoc boosting != absolute tank... shesh. Absolute = complete, perfect, positive, certain, unconditional... ect ect So your statement is saying the maelstroms tank is the most complete/perfect tank when it is actually the largest hp repairing tank. No, its just a confusion about what absolute means and what relative means on your part. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.16 17:24:00 - [46] Originally by: Kagura Nikon snip Actualy its true when HP/.75<DPS/rep1 - DPS/rep2 And in absolute terms its true. And the shield tank that the maelstrom puts up is very strong. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2007.02.16 17:26:00 - [47] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Mila Prestoc boosting != absolute tank... shesh. Absolute = complete, perfect, positive, certain, unconditional... ect ect So your statement is saying the maelstroms tank is the most complete/perfect tank when it is actually the largest hp repairing tank. No, its just a confusion about what absolute means and what relative means on your part. Or maybe you should pick up a dictionary so you don't use phases/terms that can be taken multiple ways. Maelstrom != best tank. Maelstrom = best shield boosting. Tank is a lot more than just boosting. Please, twist that one... ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
xenodia Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.16 18:27:00 - [48] Originally by: Monkey Spankah no what he is saying is that once CCP nerfs every race ship that nanos are useless were does that leave minmitar who are supose to be fast and gain thsoe speeds using nanos, the only way i see to stop this nerfign minmitar is add a bonus that cause the new negative effects of nanos and mwds to not effect minmitar ships. Minmatar will still be faster than other races ships. I just wont have to waste my time trying to chase down a typhoon going "Ludicrous Speed" (10km/second) anymore. This signature space for rent
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.02.16 18:50:00 - [49] Originally by: Xeliya I will leave them just like they were before Kali, after kali most ships could go another 2km/s faster. Ive seen nano phoons and nano domis going faster then my crow. It is also possible to get ceptors up over 30km/s if you will use implants. over 30 km/s LOLOL i would love to see those calculations... _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
GankYou	Posted - 2007.02.16 18:51:00 - [50] : Lowest mass Highest base speed Capless weapons 2nd largest drone bays 2nd best DPS Ability to choose dmg type. Ishos is taking control of our capital fleet - he will control and coordinate all capital ship movements and monitor your skill training to see and confirm when you are ready to fl 101 Reykjavik
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.02.16 19:14:00 - [51] Originally by: M00dy Two quotes from Tux really makes me worried for Eve. Quote: Combat in EVE was always supposed to be more about tactics and strategy rather than twitch movement. I know a lot of the community enjoy that style of gameplay but it just isn't EVE. No more twitch movement in Eve. This nerf is going to be more than just rolling back i-stabs. This one has me very angry. Quote: When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight. This means no Guerrilla Warfare. No small gangs being able to harass a large blob. No more hit and run tactics. 'hit and run'!=NanoBS. You can do 'hit and runs' in a blasterthron, you warp in, obliterate the target before they can say "aarrrgh OMG save me pls!!!111" and warp out again... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.02.16 19:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Originally by: M00dy Two quotes from Tux really makes me worried for Eve. Quote: Combat in EVE was always supposed to be more about tactics and strategy rather than twitch movement. I know a lot of the community enjoy that style of gameplay but it just isn't EVE. No more twitch movement in Eve. This nerf is going to be more than just rolling back i-stabs. This one has me very angry. Quote: When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight. This means no Guerrilla Warfare. No small gangs being able to harass a large blob. No more hit and run tactics. 'hit and run'!=NanoBS. You can do 'hit and runs' in a blasterthron, you warp in, obliterate the target before they can say "aarrrgh OMG save me pls!!!111" and warp out again... Exactly. The point is you can still take on bigger blobs in small gangs providing you manage to lure some of them away (as often happens), kill it quick, then run off. Sounds liks fine large primate tatics to me. sgb
Lars Intarestum	Posted - 2007.02.16 20:53:00 - [53] maelstrom != rohk speed != matar devs != stupid gorrila != guerilla
Chavu The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 08:01:00 - [54] Originally by: GankYou : Lowest mass Highest base speed Capless weapons 2nd largest drone bays 2nd best DPS Ability to choose dmg type. Lowest mass: Not true, have you even tried showing info on ships? Highest base speed: True, our only bonus. Capless Weapons: So do caldari (missiles) and Gallente (drones) Hardly a minmatar bonus. Capless guns? Meh, would be awesome if we didn't active tank, since we active tank and need mwd we need cap anyways so meh. 2nd largest drone bays: Not true, have you heard of the Arbitrator or the Harbinger? 2nd highest dps: Not true, depends purely on setup and skills. Those skills are no joke, it takes years to master minmatar. Ability to choose damage type: Not true. The only races who can do that are Caldari and Gallente with missiles and drones. Minmatar use ammo based on range and total damage. You think we like using explosive and kinetic damage for tech2? please.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 09:30:00 - [55] Originally by: Chavu Originally by: GankYou : Lowest mass Highest base speed Capless weapons 2nd largest drone bays 2nd best DPS Ability to choose dmg type. Lowest mass: Not true, have you even tried showing info on ships? Highest base speed: True, our only bonus. Capless Weapons: So do caldari (missiles) and Gallente (drones) Hardly a minmatar bonus. Capless guns? Meh, would be awesome if we didn't active tank, since we active tank and need mwd we need cap anyways so meh. 2nd largest drone bays: Not true, have you heard of the Arbitrator or the Harbinger? 2nd highest dps: Not true, depends purely on setup and skills. Those skills are no joke, it takes years to master minmatar. Ability to choose damage type: Not true. The only races who can do that are Caldari and Gallente with missiles and drones. Minmatar use ammo based on range and total damage. You think we like using explosive and kinetic damage for tech2? please. considering that EM is the most resisted, Kin the second most resisted and ex/em the least resisted tech 2 resistances, and ex is the least resisted damage i would say that yes, you love doing ex/kin for your tech 2 damage. Now, Minmatar artillery have a problem where they have damage types dependant on range. Autocannon has no such problem, and every minnie pvp character should load up on fusion and phased plasma or phased plasma and barrage, just like every Amarran should have scorch and MF, and every blaster pilot AM and Void. However, having damage types dependant on range is much much better than not having a choice. However... Lowest Mass: No, this is true by a long way, have you even showed info on ships? You seriously think any of Caldari[slowest/heaviest], Amarr[second fastest/second most massive], and Gallente[second slowest/second least massive] have a mass avantage over Minmatar? Bwa? 2nd Largest Dron Bays: For the most part true, the Arbitrator is an abberation, as is the Harbinger. 2nd highest dps: No, you really do have the second highest DPS with just gun and ship skills. No missile skills needed. There are a few ships that have it rough in terms of skills, but those are few and far between. Ability to choose damage types: Yes, you do and if you dont change damage types regularly, you should not be flying minmatar because you dont know what you are doing. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:32:00 - [56] I think the root of the problem is this overwhelming need to kill the target. Super fast ship is warp scrambling you, thus you need to kill superfast ship. Super fast ship is now webbed, thus easy to kill. Wouldn't it be better if super fast ships were all about killing you before you could get away? warp scramblers/disruptors didnt actually stop you from warping, just slowed you down? Webbers had a lesser effect, but longer range? Eve is too much about absolutes to be a game where stuff like speed can really shine in PvP. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
kaike Minmatar Darklite inc	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:34:00 - [57] Imo there is no BestaboveallracesinEve ,it is all based in combo to your skills,ok i admid a few more bonus for us minmar's would be nice ,however we got since Kali the Maelstrom hurricane the last 1 hmm beside the warfare bonus what almost no 1 uses it's nice. Any1 tryed nanoMael ? ,i read cappless weapons if you consider Caldari wapons use cap minmar's don't we got tI ammo that does 3 way damge other's don't ect ect to name 1 example. So stop those tears and be happy for what you've got :) Alt...
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.17 10:41:00 - [58] Edited by: Aramendel on 17/02/2007 10:37:47 Originally by: madaluap over 30 km/s LOLOL i would love to see those calculations... Mhh.. let's see how fast we can get a crusader. 2 instabs, 2 domi ODs, gisti a-type MWD, 2 t2 vents, Shaqils, 5% MWD speed, zor's hyper-link, HG snakes, max gang bonus and of cource max skills. Base speed: (455 + 240) 1.25 * 1.08 * 1.5363 * 1.388125 -> 1540.25 MWD effeciency: 6.61 * 1.25 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.31 (speed bonus from reduced mass) * 1.2 * 1.2 -> 17.176 Total speed: 1540.25 * (1 + 17.176) -> 27996 m/s So, nope, you won't get 30 km/s with a ceptor, but it will come close. A phoon with the same setup (exept 3 more domi ODs and an additional t2 vent rig) goes 22459 m/s, btw. Or 19250 m/s if you use domi/t2 nanos instead ODs (and unlike the ceptor he will be able to do damage there).
Fredbob 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.17 11:13:00 - [59] While I agree the speed thing is overdone atm, speed shouldn't be based on how many low slots you have.. However I really do hope the nerf isn't overdone. As a minnie pilot it's sad to see the game reverting back to tank&gank style of play. Eve may not be a twitch game but speed should be a tactical choice, far too many minnie ships don't have that racial advantage of speed that they're supposed to have, leaving them as a weaker tank&gank version of another race's ship. If the speed and nos changes are done well, then fair play I look forward to it - however something tells me it'll end up as a "don't use speed or nos, just a heavy tank and cap boosters" patch :( Oh, my primary alt is Amarr, so hopefully that'll be overdone too and she'll become uber for once ^^ ___________ ~Fredbob~
Wulfgard Minmatar Lynx Frontier Inc. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 13:24:00 - [60] I trust the devs know what they are doing, but applying a broad nerf on all MWDs will cause more harm than good and surely create new issues of balancing. An arbitrary max speed velocity per ship class hull might have been alot easier (8k/ms for ceptors, 4k/ms for cruisers, 2k/ms for battleships). Regardless of what is coming next, speed tank should still be a possibility for minmatars, but not for a whale shaped sized bs like the Dominix
Nyck Graveyard Shift	Posted - 2007.02.17 14:03:00 - [61] Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 14:04:17 Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 14:00:39 From Dev Blog: "Another reason has to do with game mechanic and can be summed up to pretty much the same arguement as when warp core stabilizers where balanced. When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight. That means when you go into a fight you are risking your ship or ships, not just warping in on anything and if you can't handle it you just warp off." Minmatar have a broken description. According to the blog, hit and run tactics are not supposed to be viable. Change the description, and leave Minmatar alone. My advice on the description change? "Minmatar aren't good tanks. Playing EVE as a Minmatar is playing EVE in hard mode." Oh, and before any of you flame me, let me explain. I'm not whining. I prefer to play games in hard mode, and I like Minmatar. I just think the dev's should have accurate descriptions on the races, that match their true feelings. (See above blog excerpt)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.02.17 14:49:00 - [62] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/02/2007 14:45:51 Originally by: xenodia Minmatar will still be faster than other races ships. I just wont have to waste my time trying to chase down a typhoon going "Ludicrous Speed" (10km/second) anymore. Spaceballs ftw. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 15:08:00 - [63] Originally by: Nyck Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 14:04:17 Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 14:00:39 From Dev Blog: "Another reason has to do with game mechanic and can be summed up to pretty much the same arguement as when warp core stabilizers where balanced. When going into a fight we want people to commit to a fight. That means when you go into a fight you are risking your ship or ships, not just warping in on anything and if you can't handle it you just warp off." Minmatar have a broken description. According to the blog, hit and run tactics are not supposed to be viable. Change the description, and leave Minmatar alone. My advice on the description change? "Minmatar aren't good tanks. Playing EVE as a Minmatar is playing EVE in hard mode." Oh, and before any of you flame me, let me explain. I'm not whining. I prefer to play games in hard mode, and I like Minmatar. I just think the dev's should have accurate descriptions on the races, that match their true feelings. (See above blog excerpt) You misunderstand the blog. Speed tanks still work, speed still works, its just not riculously broken. By that arguement we should bring back the gank-a-geddon because "lasers are super weapons". Gameplay comes before fluff. Nanobattleships are too riduclous at the moment, that is about it. Speed will still work, dont worry. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Nyck Graveyard Shift	Posted - 2007.02.17 16:41:00 - [64] Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 16:38:24 Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 16:38:13 Apparently you didn't read the part of the blog I quoted, or what I said about it. Try reading it again. Minmatar are supposed to be hit and run tactics users. The blog specifically states that they don't want hit and run tactics in combat. Before telling me that I'm wrong, try reading and understanding what I said. I said nothing of speed tanks.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.17 16:48:00 - [65] Originally by: Nyck Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 16:38:24 Edited by: Nyck on 17/02/2007 16:38:13 Apparently you didn't read the part of the blog I quoted, or what I said about it. Try reading it again. Minmatar are supposed to be hit and run tactics users. The blog specifically states that they don't want hit and run tactics in combat. Before telling me that I'm wrong, try reading and understanding what I said. I said nothing of speed tanks. No, it says they dont want ships entering and leaving combat with impunity. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Nyck Graveyard Shift	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:16:00 - [66] Edited by: Nyck on 18/02/2007 00:17:59 Which is exactly what a hit and run tactic is. Thank you for making my point, Mr. Obvious. Hit-and-run tactics is a tactical doctrine where the purpose of the combat involved is not to seize control of territory, but to inflict damage on a target and immediately exit the area to avoid the enemy's defense and/or retaliation.
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.18 01:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P We will be left with our superior warfare target painting. Dont count on it I hear they are introduction Target Paint defence modules now! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2007.02.18 01:49:00 - [68] Edited by: HankMurphy on 18/02/2007 01:47:03 while my own opinions on speed ships can be read in several other threads, they are all based on what direction i think combat on a large scale, from blob to smallgang should be going. all that crap aside, what will minmatar be left with now that we know the nerf bat is being warmed up? REGARDLESS i'm sure ccp isn't gonna just nerf the crap outta us (i hope), so a very real possibility will be that we will again be the speed RACE. Its been said time and time again, the nanophoon has been around a LONG time. But its history hasnt' consisted of 6-10km/s normally, and the reason it was possible was ITS A FAST battleship. Its a role that makes sense for it and shouldn't be one that just any other battleship can mimic (most other bs either too slow/hvy , dont have the slot layout, or dont have the missile slots to be viable in combat) As many others have said, the issue today is that every ship can be a nanoship (well, istabship would be more appropriate term). So i'm gonna remain sceptical but optimistic that while speed setups wont be so uber postnerf, when the debris settles minnie will still have a combat advantage of speed.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm	Posted - 2007.02.18 01:52:00 - [69] Originally by: Arian Snow Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P We will be left with our superior warfare target painting. Dont count on it I hear they are introduction Target Paint defence modules now! really appreciate if you could link us in the right direction on where they said they were doin that. i'd be pretty shocked, especially since we still dont have a counter to MISSILES (except speed, which.... is gonna get nerfed)
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude	Posted - 2007.02.18 05:05:00 - [70] Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 18/02/2007 05:06:29 Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 18/02/2007 05:04:48 Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Arian Snow Originally by: Pesadel0 Originally by: Kael D'mende Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ? Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ? anyway just felt like whining abit :P We will be left with our superior warfare target painting. Dont count on it I hear they are introduction Target Paint defence modules now! really appreciate if you could link us in the right direction on where they said they were doin that. i'd be pretty shocked, especially since we still dont have a counter to MISSILES (except speed, which.... is gonna get nerfed) I do remember something in a devblog ages ago about it being logical to make a module that reduces sigrad on ships since there was one to make targeted ships have a bigger sigrad. Oh well at least we can still web the buggers though! Found it! Linkage
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.02.18 08:19:00 - [71] Edited by: VJ Maverick on 18/02/2007 08:19:03 Originally by: Nyck Edited by: Nyck on 18/02/2007 00:17:59 Which is exactly what a hit and run tactic is. Thank you for making my point, Mr. Obvious. Hit-and-run tactics is a tactical doctrine where the purpose of the combat involved is not to seize control of territory, but to inflict damage on a target and immediately exit the area to avoid the enemy's defense and/or retaliation. Let me explain hit-and-run tactics to you Mr. Not-So-Obvious. "Hit-and-run" in the context of military doctrine refers to a swift attack and an equally swift withdrawal. ONCE per engagement. Hit-and-run is NOT what you are purporting it to be - namely the act of hitting and running dozens of times within the same engagement. What you are describing is more analogous to "multiple strafing runs", NOT Hit and Run as it is understood in military circles and hopefully intended in the game.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.18 11:16:00 - [72] Originally by: Nyck Edited by: Nyck on 18/02/2007 00:17:59 Which is exactly what a hit and run tactic is. Thank you for making my point, Mr. Obvious. Hit-and-run tactics is a tactical doctrine where the purpose of the combat involved is not to seize control of territory, but to inflict damage on a target and immediately exit the area to avoid the enemy's defense and/or retaliation. No it is not, if you can enter and exit combat with impunity then you are in a position of utter domination when you can also kill said target. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Fullerton Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:00:00 - [73] To Be Honist Im Just getting fed up with nerf patches coming out every few months, complaining i want this nerfed this is not working etc to many cooks spoil the broth. Theres allways somthing the eve community is not happy with and 1s they get there nano nerf , there will just move onto another part of the game to nerf It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?
Dark Flare Caldari Corpus PCG	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:06:00 - [74] I haven't read the whole thread, so someone may have already mentioned this... Isn't this going to leave the Vaga a bit screwed? It relies on a speed tank, if the speed is nerfed.. then, er, oh dear? To make this nerf NOT ruin Minmatar, they'd have to lower tracking speeds on turrets, and lower the explosion velocity on all missiles.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:25:00 - [75] Originally by: Dark Flare I haven't read the whole thread, so someone may have already mentioned this... Isn't this going to leave the Vaga a bit screwed? It relies on a speed tank, if the speed is nerfed.. then, er, oh dear? To make this nerf NOT ruin Minmatar, they'd have to lower tracking speeds on turrets, and lower the explosion velocity on all missiles. Well, the vagabond doesnt really speed tank, it range tanks and then runs if it gets in over its head, even with pre-kali speeds, it cant track targets with the kind of transversal that it can put out. Anyway, to asuage the "ZOMG NO SPEED" thing dev blog gives a number for about what he thinks is O.K. for a ship to go and sets this number as "x20" modifier on base speed[for his base idea] This means that the following values are at the top end of "O.K." Typhoon = 3000 m/s Vagabond = 4700 m/s Rifter = 6400 m/s Rupture = 4100 m/s Tempest = 2800 m/s Dominix = 2400 m/s Megathron = 2500 m/s Maelstrom = 2300 m/s Claw = 9500 m/s Crusader = 9100 m/s Which are plenty fine numbers. If you can get a blaster-thron up to 2500m/s with a tank, i commend you for your "leet" skills and fat wallet. Frigates still cap plenty fast, and interceptors cap extraordinalily fast. As well, bursts of speed above that should be possible due to it being a cap solution, so if your claw or crusader had the cahones and need to bust out to 15km/s for a cycle or two then it wouldnt be an issue. Anyway, 4.7km/s is plenty fast for a vagabond. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Aterna Minmatar M'8'S	Posted - 2007.02.18 18:33:00 - [76] If you haven't read the whole thread, and you haven't read the blog, please don't post. Speedtanking is not going to get nerfed for the vagabond. If you read the blog, then you would read where Tuxford states that he is going to be careful to not kill the Vagabond's primary attribute: Speed. The balance will not affect the game in any way except to keep nanoships from being able to engage and kill their targets without any real danger to themselves. How many minmatar ships rely on speedtank? Not many, that's the answer. Most minmatar ships bigger then a frigate, aside from the Vagabond and Stabber, are not able to use their natural speed to any real advantage. The Jaguar is fast, yes. However, it doesn't have the agility to engage an interceptor. You are all blowing this way out of proportion. You speak of hit and run tactics, but all you really want to do is keep your get out of jail free card. Well too bad, if you get caught, you do not get to pass GO and collect your loot, you go straight to your pod. - - -
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.18 19:59:00 - [77] Edited by: Aramendel on 18/02/2007 19:57:37 Yes, if that extreme speeds = extreme MWD cap will come through need the vaga will prolly get an additional 25% on top on that due to it's speed bonus. Tux mentioned specifically that the vaga needs an extra consideration due to it. This would boost the vagas non-penality speed to 6050 m/s. Which is very reasonabe IMO. At that speed it cannot hit much with med guns in either way. And it would still be able to use higher speeds to flee if needed, it would just not be able to sustain these speeds. Which does not really matter in such situations. That cap penality at > 20* base speed is actually a very reasonable solution to the nanoplague when you think about it.

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