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I'm calling out the Dev's making changes to WH's

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RemSalak Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:06:42 - [1] - Quote Title says it all. I'm calling you guys out to ask you one simple question... WTF is wrong with you people? For years CCP has been talking about trying to emphasize smaller gang game play. Now with the Citadel Expansion they are trying to enact some of those ideas through damage cap on structures in an attempt to NOT make it all about the blob. Good changes. Except when it comes to Wormholes, almost every SINGLE CHANGE has been to enhance the blob experience. Such changes include - Streamlining probing to track ships down faster(this works for everyone but is most useful in a WH environment) - Making Ore sites in WH's automatically warpable instead of having to scan them down(Blob groups don't mine Ores in WH space) - Making wormholes open only AFTER someone has jumped through.(allowing Blob groups to amass in full readyness for a gank) - Adding extra static's and making WH's appear more often in all WH space(Again, for the blobs to search out more targets since small groups can't be bothered with all the scanning involved) - Increasing spawn distance from WH's based on mass of ship. (massively increasing risk to small groups rolling WH's, no increase in risk to blob groups though) LAST BUT ALSO THE WORST -Citadels being killed after 48 hours - and losing all loot/ships. (Hey come blob this system for 48 hours to troll/grief small corps simply because you're bored and haven't found anyone else to fight and want to pick on someone that can't fight back) Perhaps you have been too ignorant to notice but every one of these changes benefits only 1 group of people inside wormhole space, and that's the large wormhole alliances, who coincidently are the ones who usually have a CSM representative pushing their agenda for them. The majority of wormhole players are small corps. Now do me a favor, go look at Chribba's Eve-offline website and track you're diminishing player base. Now track these changes to wormholes. You'll notice CCP has had approx a 25% (or higher) decrease in player base in the last year alone. Notice a trend? Each time you make another idiotic change to WH space to benefit those large corps/alliances you lose players. Now do me another favor, track the number of players in WH space now VS when Citadels are fully active and towers are no longer usable. I can promise you, you will see your mistake but only after you've lost those people. You need to take a step back and ask yourselves what these changes really mean for ALL players inside wormhole space and not just a few large groups pushing their agenda through the CSM. I look around the forums and I see the same bitching and complaining from everyone, wah wah, wormhole space is empty everywhere I go , wah wah wah. With those changes mentioned above, you're not making WH space more competative, you are wiping out the people's interest entirely to play there at all. And the idiots pushing this agenda are so short sighted, they think that this will increase their pew pew, and it might, for a small time. but the more people you drive out, the fewer people there are to shoot. It's a vicious cycle. So keep it up, all you've accomplished so far is to make EVE less fun for everyone in the end. (Hence the 25% drop in player base in the last year) the numbers say it all. CCP you need to stop catering to these idiots that call themselves veteran players of EVE and start actually concentrating on finding a way to ensure EVE survives beyond the release of other unmentionable games. That survival revolves entirely around drawing new people into the game. The longer these "vets" get to dictate the direction EVE takes, the less likely EVE will maintain a healthy playerbase when it's main rival starts up. You think these vets will stick around when that happens? Not likely.
Vicker Lahn'se Stryker Industries 179	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:25:32 - [2] - Quote Not a single one of those changes that you listed has anything to do with the size of the fleets involved. Every one of those changes makes it easier to pvp and less safe to pve. I personally welcome every one of them. The thing that limits fleet sizes in wormholes is the mass restrictions of the holes themselves. Those numbers aren't changing.
Amak Boma Dragon Factory 184	Posted - 2016.04.13 19:55:50 - [3] - Quote exacly making citadels kill in 48 hours without chance for loot / salvage its very inadequate to wormhole life. all you need to do will be log off in someone wormhole couple of alts and once the citadels enter vulnerability timer you just blast it down yes thats all about because eve is pvp game mainly with some pve enviroments . how it will impat on small wormhole corps? very simply evryone will be able to blast your tiny tinfoil house and no that is correct, you should be able to defend , if you cant then dont commit it ,. citadels in low-class wormholes going to be as good targets as large faction towers and people will be shooting them just they can. lets take example look we have small industry corp in a c2 wormhole 10 members 8 procurer pilots 1 orca pilot and one tengu pilot, all pilots from the corp can fight back but there comes 50 man corporation that looking for targets they find class 2 wormhole with medium citadel and 10 ma corp. you know what they going to do yes they will hang around untill the vulnerability timer comes up since it will be displayed on structure . YES this just make thing easier but there is also easy solution which is : show the vulnerability timer only to corporation members that own citadel , the other plauyers will have to come , decloak and attempt to target it to see if can be attacked or not why not give players little more citadel protection for wormhole groups why citadels cant benefit from star effects of wormhole, why not maybe should as you could eventually fit your citadel to increase its survival chance also who would realy want siege a citadel in c1 or c2 wormhole, who the low-class wormholes will be eoungh safer and because of wormhole mass they will be hard to siege without proper amount of ships and no the medium citadel will have less ehp than small tower with hardeners so fair chance to blast it. people will go for large citadels instead the ore sites should be scannable instead of current as miners are easy targets and if the site need to be scanned miners can see probes and decide to warp to citadel or pos so i agree this must be changed
RemSalak Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:41:19 - [4] - Quote Amak Boma wrote: exacly making citadels kill in 48 hours without chance for loot / salvage its very inadequate to wormhole life. all you need to do will be log off in someone wormhole couple of alts and once the citadels enter vulnerability timer you just blast it down yes thats all about because eve is pvp game mainly with some pve enviroments . how it will impat on small wormhole corps? very simply evryone will be able to blast your tiny tinfoil house and no that is correct, you should be able to defend , if you cant then dont commit it ,. citadels in low-class wormholes going to be as good targets as large faction towers and people will be shooting them just they can. lets take example look we have small industry corp in a c2 wormhole 10 members 8 procurer pilots 1 orca pilot and one tengu pilot, all pilots from the corp can fight back but there comes 50 man corporation that looking for targets they find class 2 wormhole with medium citadel and 10 ma corp. you know what they going to do yes they will hang around untill the vulnerability timer comes up since it will be displayed on structure . YES this just make thing easier but there is also easy solution which is : show the vulnerability timer only to corporation members that own citadel , the other plauyers will have to come , decloak and attempt to target it to see if can be attacked or not why not give players little more citadel protection for wormhole groups why citadels cant benefit from star effects of wormhole, why not maybe should as you could eventually fit your citadel to increase its survival chance also who would realy want siege a citadel in c1 or c2 wormhole, who the low-class wormholes will be eoungh safer and because of wormhole mass they will be hard to siege without proper amount of ships and no the medium citadel will have less ehp than small tower with hardeners so fair chance to blast it. people will go for large citadels instead the ore sites should be scannable instead of current as miners are easy targets and if the site need to be scanned miners can see probes and decide to warp to citadel or pos so i agree this must be changed You just made my point you oblivious jackass. Thank you.
Andrew Jester Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 1635	Posted - 2016.04.13 20:49:59 - [5] - Quote "Wahhhhhhh" td; dr If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Iyokus Patrouette Empty Vessels 1338	Posted - 2016.04.13 21:16:25 - [6] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: "Wahhhhhhh" td; dr So hows your day going Jester? I'm just finishing one of the best coffees i've had in a while. ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Jack Miton Anomalous Existence Low-Class 4851	Posted - 2016.04.14 05:07:28 - [7] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: "Wahhhhhhh" td; dr I know right?? i know there are some whiny b!tches in wspace but this is a new low... theyre literally UPPING the time it takes to kill a POS and he's complaining that this f*cks over the little guy! must be some kind of special 'logic' that I am unfamiliar with... There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. 1193	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:29:27 - [8] - Quote RemSalak wrote: Amak Boma wrote: exacly making citadels kill in 48 hours without chance for loot / salvage its very inadequate to wormhole life. all you need to do will be log off in someone wormhole couple of alts and once the citadels enter vulnerability timer you just blast it down yes thats all about because eve is pvp game mainly with some pve enviroments . how it will impat on small wormhole corps? very simply evryone will be able to blast your tiny tinfoil house and no that is correct, you should be able to defend , if you cant then dont commit it ,. citadels in low-class wormholes going to be as good targets as large faction towers and people will be shooting them just they can. lets take example look we have small industry corp in a c2 wormhole 10 members 8 procurer pilots 1 orca pilot and one tengu pilot, all pilots from the corp can fight back but there comes 50 man corporation that looking for targets they find class 2 wormhole with medium citadel and 10 ma corp. you know what they going to do yes they will hang around untill the vulnerability timer comes up since it will be displayed on structure . YES this just make thing easier but there is also easy solution which is : show the vulnerability timer only to corporation members that own citadel , the other plauyers will have to come , decloak and attempt to target it to see if can be attacked or not why not give players little more citadel protection for wormhole groups why citadels cant benefit from star effects of wormhole, why not maybe should as you could eventually fit your citadel to increase its survival chance also who would realy want siege a citadel in c1 or c2 wormhole, who the low-class wormholes will be eoungh safer and because of wormhole mass they will be hard to siege without proper amount of ships and no the medium citadel will have less ehp than small tower with hardeners so fair chance to blast it. people will go for large citadels instead the ore sites should be scannable instead of current as miners are easy targets and if the site need to be scanned miners can see probes and decide to warp to citadel or pos so i agree this must be changed You just made my point you oblivious jackass. Thank you. The guy was agreeing with you, you oblivious jackass... I however aren't, if you can't handle the changes, don't play. I don't like the fact supers and station games are coming to wormholes. But I will adapt... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 724	Posted - 2016.04.14 13:50:26 - [9] - Quote How is the fact that evictions will happen in 48 hours a change? It has always been like this. Nothing changes here, except that it is probably getting slightly harder because Citadels will be more dangerous defenders than POS's currently are. If I remember the Citadel mechanics correctly, a small corp will be able to make their Citadel completely invulnerable on weekends by moving the window into some time during the week. This will harm big corps because they will have trouble to agree on a time for the eviction during the week while one player or a few will more easily find a time during the week where they are available to defend. Example: Corp 'Small Potatoes' has ten players and they operate a Medium Citadel. It has only 3 hours of vulnerability per week. They make a poll about weekly schedules and it turns out that on thursday evenings 8 of those 10 members can be online if really necessary. Corp 'Blobby Blobbers' has 50 players and they really like evictions. They usually spend every friday night reinforcing some helpless small corp's POS and come back on sunday to mop up. They find Small Potatoes' home and want to abuse them... but no way to do it on friday night. They schedule something for thursday but struggle to get enough members together because for them attacking some random Citadel is not nearly as important as it is for the owners to defend it, so instead of 80% of their members, only 30% show up, giving the smaller defenders an advantage. .
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2182	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:01:40 - [10] - Quote Seraph Essael wrote: I don't like the fact supers and station games are coming to wormholes. But I will adapt... ? The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Eikin Skjald Kill at Will 6	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:05:32 - [11] - Quote After the first post, I liked WH Space even more.....must be an exciting adventure.
Borsek Incertae Sedis Friendly Probes 377	Posted - 2016.04.14 14:29:13 - [12] - Quote OP's forum alt is associated with -THE- Treasure hunter enterprises corp (https://zkillboard.com/corporation/414884517/) and possible but improbable alts (or friends), due to having an actual pvp history, and OP seems pvp-averse, include Norse Maniac, General Cha, RemDakar - probably not though, even though the name is almost the same. The named corp was evicted from J141104 about a year ago, and amidst their losses there were hulks, skiffs and the like. Corp seems like one person or a few friends and a bunch of mining toons, with occasional, rare pvp. I can see where the tears stem from. Stop posting.
Carrion Crow Dropship 27	Posted - 2016.04.14 22:27:31 - [13] - Quote I think the OP should be excited about Citadels. Unlike a POS, I think a citadel will give small corps the chance to actually fight back - or at least hurt the attackers ;) The interface for defending a POS sucks, whereas the new citadel design looks like it will be usable and fun to play with. Sure, it will die to a determined larger force, but that's always been the case.
Winthorp 3834	Posted - 2016.04.15 08:29:20 - [14] - Quote I was at Autism level 22% when i got home, thanks for topping me up.
Ozz Burtus Stryker Industries 9	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:56:00 - [15] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: I know right?? i know there are some whiny b!tches in wspace but this is a new low... theyre literally UPPING the time it takes to kill a POS and he's complaining that this f*cks over the little guy! must be some kind of special 'logic' that I am unfamiliar with... "Doublethink" is the one you're looking for.
Andrew Jester Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion 1638	Posted - 2016.04.15 13:55:59 - [16] - Quote Iyokus Patrouette wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: "Wahhhhhhh" td; dr So hows your day going Jester? I'm just finishing one of the best coffees i've had in a while. other than trolling through chromobonus posts p well Jack Miton wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: "Wahhhhhhh" td; dr I know right?? i know there are some whiny b!tches in wspace but this is a new low... theyre literally UPPING the time it takes to kill a POS and he's complaining that this fcks over the little guy! must be some kind of special 'logic' that I am unfamiliar with... probably because he doesn't know what getting ***** is actually like ;) If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Seraph Essael eXceed Inc. 1193	Posted - 2016.04.16 02:16:36 - [17] - Quote Rek Seven wrote: Seraph Essael wrote: I don't like the fact supers and station games are coming to wormholes. But I will adapt... ? They're going to be allowing Supers into high class wormholes... I dislike it... But the game will go on whether I like it or not, so might at well just adapt. And station games. AKA citadels... Able to dock in Wormhole space. Again dislike that but oh well... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Sheeth Athonille Rabid Dogz Mining The Bastion 86	Posted - 2016.04.16 02:36:31 - [18] - Quote Seraph Essael wrote: Rek Seven wrote: Seraph Essael wrote: I don't like the fact supers and station games are coming to wormholes. But I will adapt... ? They're going to be allowing Supers into high class wormholes... I dislike it... But the game will go on whether I like it or not, so might at well just adapt. And station games. AKA citadels... Able to dock in Wormhole space. Again dislike that but oh well... Where'd you read that? Everything I've read has been about them possibly upping the mass allowed through wh's to counter the increases in mass from capital size armor plates, but ensuring that the mass isn't high enough for supers to get through. Pretty sure there'd be a **** storm if they started letting supers into wh's.
Tatsuj Khan Team Pizza Good at this Game 9	Posted - 2016.04.17 00:42:55 - [19] - Quote Super-capitals are NOT allowed and for the upcoming upgrades, won`t be allowed in j-space. Citadels of all three flavours will be allowed in j-space along with conditions unique only to j-space.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 234	Posted - 2016.04.17 19:22:29 - [20] - Quote Have you even considered the consequences if assets would not be destroyed after a citadel pops in wh's? If it would the 10% of loot denial tax of k-space, then you would never be safe in wh's. The large rich corps the op talks about would just destroy a citadel full of ships wich would then stay in the wh's untill they anchor a new one... . In wich they would recover the "lost" assets... . So they got an instant beachhead... . No local in null sec would fix everything!
Pinkylein Rolling Static Gone Critical 7	Posted - 2016.04.18 11:11:43 - [21] - Quote I've seen alot of people really complaining about the upcoming citadel changes, regarding to wh-space and i don't really see why, since all arguments that brought up are already valid today. I got the feeling alot of people that are complainin were not part of an eviction or were not evicted yet, but just have knowledge about it by reading. First: If a corp wants to evict you. They will succeed, no matter if you have a citadel, one POS, 15 POS's, and so on. Their preperation is all that matters and if they prepare good, have valid information about you, they will come, pre- or post-citadel expansion. Second: As alot of people stated, right now the time of beeing evicted is way more straight and unpredictable then it will be with citadels. Right now the attackers have the upper hand by deciding when they want to come. If you're not at home, as at work, beeing one week on vacation with your family and cannot check for anything, they come, set it into RF and you cannot do **** about it. You will be able to get your ships out ... at least out of the SMA; but everything else is already lost or unreachable, unless they make a major mistake when the tower comes out of RF and they don't attack anymore. Third: I will be honest, i did not check on detail on the upcoming defense stats on citadels, but it sounds like the DPS and possible ewar that comes from a citadel is way more threatening, then most POS-guns/ecm/webs i have seen around most of the towers. So the forces that are currently needed are way smaller, so even smaller gangs could possibly attack most towers in most systems. Most people don't set up huge deathstar-towers and some don't have any defenses at all. The citadel already comes with a pre-defined slot layout that cries for "give me weapons". And yeah ... that actually is everything. Not to mention what many said ... you can set your invul-timer, stuff would be lost already right now and 48h >> 36-or-something-hours that are currently needed til you can end the presence of the victims-tower. All the other things. Seriously. Rolling wormholes with that mass/distance thing. If you still roll with an orca ... sorry thats outdated by now, almost nobody is doing it, unless they bait others into a fleet that is waiting cloaked. Battleships even 13km away spawning with an MWD can usually get back very fast, or with higgs, can warp in almost no time. AND even if you manage to jump back ... if someone is waiting for you on either one or the other site and the wh is not verge or won't close, they just follow and scram you on the site, whereever you will be and kill you. 0 km or 20km would not make a difference. And even though i never made it and i just saw it ONE time, many ppl use yachts, as they are (as long as not beeing changed) really hard to catch. And wh-mass. Also stated, supers won't come into wh's, wh mass increase only to have possible 1-2 normal caps that can change between LS/NS/C6/C5 ... All those things affect everyone in the same way. The one that did not get affected yet, won't get affected as well when citadels come out. And only the least part will see a change. And that will be the ones that YES live in a c5 or c6 only there for ratting with 5 people. But if you could not defend your wormhole in a proper way before patch, why should it be easier after that. Pinky
Xen Solarus Aliastra Gallente Federation 882	Posted - 2016.04.18 11:29:19 - [22] - Quote Pinkylein wrote: Third: I will be honest, i did not check on detail on the upcoming defense stats on citadels, but it sounds like the DPS and possible ewar that comes from a citadel is way more threatening, then most POS-guns/ecm/webs i have seen around most of the towers. I was with you 100% up until this point. If someone wants you out, there's not a chance in hell to stop them if you are a small corp. But WILL citadels be more powerful that a POS? I mean, a well setup large tower with ECMs coming out the wazoo, plus tons of guns, and then masses of offline backups and we're looking at a right pain in the *** to attack. It still seems vague about citadels, and just how they'll fair up in comparison to that. Personally, I think the added benefit of Citadels dropping all the shiny loots in Wh-space will highly encourage the random destruction of citadels. I only hope CCP gives them, at the very least, the sort of annoying difficulty that we currently find with well setup large POS. Otherwise, the last true place left in all of new eden that holds the potential for small corps to claim a tiny sliver of space will be lost forever. That would suck! Post with your main, like a BOSS! And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
Pinkylein Rolling Static Gone Critical 7	Posted - 2016.04.18 11:47:44 - [23] - Quote Xen Solarus wrote: Pinkylein wrote: Third: I will be honest, i did not check on detail on the upcoming defense stats on citadels, but it sounds like the DPS and possible ewar that comes from a citadel is way more threatening, then most POS-guns/ecm/webs i have seen around most of the towers. I was with you 100% up until this point. If someone wants you out, there's not a chance in hell to stop them if you are a small corp. But WILL citadels be more powerful that a POS? I mean, a well setup large tower with ECMs coming out the wazoo, plus tons of guns, and then masses of offline backups and we're looking at a right pain in the *** to attack. It still seems vague about citadels, and just how they'll fair up in comparison to that. Personally, I think the added benefit of Citadels dropping all the shiny loots in Wh-space will highly encourage the random destruction of citadels. I only hope CCP gives them, at the very least, the sort of annoying difficulty that we currently find with well setup large POS. Otherwise, the last true place left in all of new eden that holds the potential for small corps to claim a tiny sliver of space will be lost forever. That would suck! Well ... but lets assume DPS is higher or lower, or equal to current POS's. If someone attacks you, they thought about it before, what they can expect. If they manage to attack a death-star-like POS, with tons of backup modules, and even active people inside, but still limited CPU/PG as they can just bring stuff online when others is gone, AND also effects around the wormhole and the tower itself, they probably brought enough guardians, long-range stuff or can trick the tower by running enough small-sized ships with high velocity that pos guns will never hit. So whatever such a group is about to face that is about to evict you, they adapt to the situation. And the same will come to citadels. And i still don't see the "everything's lost"-part. What is the difference to now? Will you have MORE stuff in the citadels that can drop? More ships then in your current SMA? More modules in your CHA? ... If people blow up your SMA, they get all your ships and for you everything is lost, same goes for CHA, PHA, all arrays around ... cans, freight containers. In short terms ... If they win, you loose ... and they get all that stuff. WHY ... should it be different in a citadel?
Alundil Rolled Out 1094	Posted - 2016.04.19 22:46:54 - [24] - Quote RemSalak wrote: So many tears in this quote that my LCD monitor got soggy just displaying it It's been a while since I've posted so I might be slightly rusty but here goes First of all - your formatting is horrid WTF is wrong with you ? On to the meat of your...ahem...arguments Streamlining probing - It has long been argued that the scanning changes begun in Odyssey (and continued iteratively ever since) has made scanning easier and faster. Furthermore, that those changes have reduced the learned "skill" of scanning quickly. There isn't a lot to argue with on that point. Scanning is easier and faster and requires less practice to be proficient at. This has created a number of issues over the years, not least of which is a massive reduction in profit potential of exploration as a career. However, that ship sailed long ago and has literally nothing to do with Citadels or any other recent patch/expansion. Ore sites as warpable anomalies - This goes into the same general bucket we, in wspace, have been harping on for years. This reduced the number of pilots mining ore in wspace overnight. Mining is dull as hell and a low profit margin activity to begin with. Miners aren't stupid (potentially missing out on other more engaging forms of gameplay but it's their game time/money) and don't willingly subject themselves to increased risk "just because". I have no idea what you think "blob groups" have to do with this change. They neither benefit or suffer from this. Ultimately, it's a change that CCP decided to make and they have (or don't have) the stats to show whether this was a positive change or not regardless of your (or anyone else's) rage-post about it being "The End of the World as We Know It". More connections - This change is a good change for everyone in wpsace other than farmers. The End. Farming is the only activity routinely needing closed or crit holes. This is due to many reasons. But all of them are cowardly and anathema to wspace as "The Most Dangerous (and also Lucrative) Place in New Eden". Even as a small group in wspace more connections are a BOBsend since those are additional connections that YOU could find things to do in. Unless you can't be bothered to fly out of your POS unless it's site running time. And your crying about needing to scan.....IDGI (where's the Jackie Chan confused meme-face when you REALLY need it). You should feel ashamed for whinging on about this. Increased spawn distances - Another change brought in with Odyssey (or was it Hyperion?). This was another changed argued for and against all over this forum. I was one of the many against it. I still am and think it was implemented incorrectly (backwards at the very least). However, this doesn't really inherently support blob groups either. What it does (at least on paper) support are groups with numbers to actually support the caps that they might use to roll holes. Again, the groups that were most vehemently teary-eyed over this......were farmers who, by definition, don't have the numbers to support rolling caps if the stuff hit the fan. Boo hoo... Higs battleships and rollling Yachts and T3s made these this almost a moot point either way. Citadels and asset safety - this was one of the best parts of the Citadel announcement. That wspace (that dangerous etc etc etc yada yada place) wouldn't become an even safer place by magically whisking people things to safety if they were bad, naughty or unlucky. That is Bob's Will. It Shall Be Done. (In other words, deal with the fact that your stuff might disappear and plan/play better/smarter or move out). The remainder of your rant is, I have to imagine, the Quafe-fueled dreams of a madman served with a healthy chaser of nanoribbon. Because player counts are up lately (if you haven't noticed) with Eve breaching the 40k online (sorry mittens) PCU for the first time in over a year. There are more than one large WH Alliance and there are several other single corps that are almost as large (or larger) and even some smaller corps that punch way above their weight-class (looking at you HEATD). So your cries amount to nothing more than that. Cries. From someone who has failed to adapt to what should be the harshest and most difficult place to live and play in Eve. But no, you're not done. You following this blisteringly obtuse missive with further tinfoil laced fodder about CSM reps playing things for their large wspace group(s) (BTW - which wspace CSM has a large WH Alliance these days? Not corbexx (waves - hi buddy) and not Chance (RIP wingspan alliance). Noobman isn't in....yet? So you got nothing at this point on that point. And then we get to the "Eve Killer" Jamie Lannister.....I mean Star Citizen...... Sheesh if it ever gets released in a playable state with battles of more than 50v50 Eve might need to worry. But that's about as likely as SC meeting its stretch goals on time (hint: they won't). I'm right behind you
Trinkets friend Empty Vessels 3027	Posted - 2016.04.20 01:01:00 - [25] - Quote Xen Solarus wrote: Pinkylein wrote: Third: I will be honest, i did not check on detail on the upcoming defense stats on citadels, but it sounds like the DPS and possible ewar that comes from a citadel is way more threatening, then most POS-guns/ecm/webs i have seen around most of the towers. I was with you 100% up until this point. If someone wants you out, there's not a chance in hell to stop them if you are a small corp. But WILL citadels be more powerful that a POS? I mean, a well setup large tower with ECMs coming out the wazoo, plus tons of guns, and then masses of offline backups and we're looking at a right pain in the *** to attack. It still seems vague about citadels, and just how they'll fair up in comparison to that. Personally, I think the added benefit of Citadels dropping all the shiny loots in Wh-space will highly encourage the random destruction of citadels. I only hope CCP gives them, at the very least, the sort of annoying difficulty that we currently find with well setup large POS. Otherwise, the last true place left in all of new eden that holds the potential for small corps to claim a tiny sliver of space will be lost forever. That would suck! You guys are such nubs. Your Deathstar POS with tons of backups is horribly vulnerable if unmanned (and, who attacks manned defenses for evictions anyway?). All you need to do is use Trashct Doctrine and it doesn't really matter what your defenses are- deathstar, dickstar, dullstar, dampstar...it's all going down. The advantage of Trashcats is, you just attack the stick and ignore the "defenses". This lets you not only attack in utter and hilarious safety, but lets you avoid RFing all the guns and dissy's and EWAR modules. You can take a fully kitted out deathstar with 4 BS and 2 Guards (and 40 tractors). Your masses and masses of offline guns? Worthless to prevent a RF that doesn't suit you. Midweek 2 a.m. your time sucks. Plus, the more guns you have anchored ready to go, the bigger the loot pinata. Citadels, because they are only vulnerable when you want them to be, and the guns don't work without human intervention, are going to be much more dangerous than an unmanned POS. Additionally, if the Medium is circa 650M it's not much more expensive than a tricked out large POS at the moment. So as long as you keep your loot pile under reasonable control, it's a major step forward in loot security and cost effectiveness for all corporations. Finally, the number of people who understand POS mechanics well is....very small. If you haven't grokked Trashcats, you haven't grokked why you want citadels. Its terribly broken, I admit, and I wubs them, but.... - caveat. if you have 80 sensor damps online, things can get skwerly for an attacker, even with Trashcats. But a 24 ECM dickstar? EZPZ. ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Selene Eltar Star Freaks 0	Posted - 2016.04.21 04:18:04 - [26] - Quote Xen Solarus wrote: Pinkylein wrote: Third: I will be honest, i did not check on detail on the upcoming defense stats on citadels, but it sounds like the DPS and possible ewar that comes from a citadel is way more threatening, then most POS-guns/ecm/webs i have seen around most of the towers. I was with you 100% up until this point. If someone wants you out, there's not a chance in hell to stop them if you are a small corp. But WILL citadels be more powerful that a POS? I mean, a well setup large tower with ECMs coming out the wazoo, plus tons of guns, and then masses of offline backups and we're looking at a right pain in the *** to attack. It still seems vague about citadels, and just how they'll fair up in comparison to that. Personally, I think the added benefit of Citadels dropping all the shiny loots in Wh-space will highly encourage the random destruction of citadels. I only hope CCP gives them, at the very least, the sort of annoying difficulty that we currently find with well setup large POS. Otherwise, the last true place left in all of new eden that holds the potential for small corps to claim a tiny sliver of space will be lost forever. That would suck! So, I've been doing some pretty exhaustive testing in SISI. Yes, Citadels (at least the Fortizar and Keepstar) are WAY more powerful than a large deathstar POS. For one, they can fit AoE weapons (guided bombs) and can launch fighters and fighter bombers. Think a Deathstar mixed with a couple bombers and a Nyx. Keepstars, for instance, can fire a doomsday that can alpha an ubertanked dread. It can do that every 10 minutes. Plus, there's a DPS limit. You can only do 15K DPS to a Fortizar and 75K DPS to a Keepstar when they're vulnerable. So all in all, you would need a very large fleet (for w-space) to even think about taking one out. And yes, if someone wants you out of a hole, it will just take them longer.
Iowa Banshee Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits 82	Posted - 2016.05.12 17:43:25 - [27] - Quote The biggest lost opportunity for CCP was to not make all the small frigate wormholes originate in shattered systems
Jessie McPewpew U2EZ 8	Posted - 2016.05.12 19:40:02 - [28] - Quote Selene Eltar wrote: Xen Solarus wrote: Pinkylein wrote: Third: I will be honest, i did not check on detail on the upcoming defense stats on citadels, but it sounds like the DPS and possible ewar that comes from a citadel is way more threatening, then most POS-guns/ecm/webs i have seen around most of the towers. I was with you 100% up until this point. If someone wants you out, there's not a chance in hell to stop them if you are a small corp. But WILL citadels be more powerful that a POS? I mean, a well setup large tower with ECMs coming out the wazoo, plus tons of guns, and then masses of offline backups and we're looking at a right pain in the *** to attack. It still seems vague about citadels, and just how they'll fair up in comparison to that. Personally, I think the added benefit of Citadels dropping all the shiny loots in Wh-space will highly encourage the random destruction of citadels. I only hope CCP gives them, at the very least, the sort of annoying difficulty that we currently find with well setup large POS. Otherwise, the last true place left in all of new eden that holds the potential for small corps to claim a tiny sliver of space will be lost forever. That would suck! So, I've been doing some pretty exhaustive testing in SISI. Yes, Citadels (at least the Fortizar and Keepstar) are WAY more powerful than a large deathstar POS. For one, they can fit AoE weapons (guided bombs) and can launch fighters and fighter bombers. Think a Deathstar mixed with a couple bombers and a Nyx. Keepstars, for instance, can fire a doomsday that can alpha an ubertanked dread. It can do that every 10 minutes. Plus, there's a DPS limit. You can only do 15K DPS to a Fortizar and 75K DPS to a Keepstar when they're vulnerable. So all in all, you would need a very large fleet (for w-space) to even think about taking one out. And yes, if someone wants you out of a hole, it will just take them longer. That's the real problem here. The most affordable citadel, at 1.2bil isk for the hull at current market prices, sucks in comparison to a cheaper, faction fit, large tower when it comes to deterence. A properly fit Astrahus is in the 5bil range and it can't hit subcaps for nothing even if it's life depends on it.
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 530	Posted - 2016.05.13 03:10:53 - [29] - Quote Pinkylein wrote: Second: As alot of people stated, right now the time of being evicted is way more straight and unpredictable then it will be with citadels. Is there a change in the profit motive for attacking/evicting someone with the citadel release?
Noxisia Arkana Deadspace Knights Sacred Empire of Ellyssium 439	Posted - 2016.05.13 13:45:21 - [30] - Quote The pvp corps have been vocal on what they want. The industry and bear corps have been silent. The net result is a more pvp friendly environment. I will agree we tend to be driving easier prey out. As long as we don't end up with wormholes showing up as anoms.. should keep the fleet sizes manageable.
Phoenix Jones Small-Arms Fire 1633	Posted - 2016.05.13 18:50:45 - [31] - Quote Let's clarify the ops point. Because why not. The issue is that citadels are vulnerable and warrant attack, vs the current pos system setup. People don't like shooting pos's because of.. Two reasons. The first is the pos shield itself. This removes the capability of close range ammo from hitting it (no blaster talos, etc) The other is that pos's take a bigger beating. A small gang can attack a citadel and win. A small gang isn't killing a pos without a dread dropping on it for times sake. This will hurt small gangs a ton in Wspace because small gangs would generally range around 3 to 6 a night, not 30 to 50 a night. It's just easier to siege a citadel than it is a pos. Now Wspace don't like pos's. We hate setting them up, managing them, assigning roles, etc. we generally don't like citadels because of their vulnerability to virtually any fleet setup. Have a few guns and 3 logi, go siege a citadel and generate a fight. That's the intial thought but for defense purposes, this will create more mega groups and alliances in Wspace. This also gives the pvp people easy pve fodder to evict... Potentially that is as a bunch are moving out. Expect more people to leave Wspace when t3's go under the knife. Pve will die a pretty violent death unless those pve entities are under the protection of a pvp entity, and that won't realistically work out well due to how Wspace is setup. Is it worth running a pve Corp in Wspace and anchoring a citadel with as they have no deterrent power themselves..... That's the question. Yaay!!!!
Som Boty Super Mother Fan Club 38	Posted - 2016.05.15 02:35:48 - [32] - Quote I'm a solo wh sweller, with the current wh dynamics and citadel mechanics I won't be replacing my POS with a citadel anytime soon. I mean ****, I don't even have guns on one of my POS for the last three weeks and its STILL better than a citadel.
Ni Neith Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2016.05.15 23:54:29 - [33] - Quote RemSalak wrote: - Streamlining probing to track ships down faster(this works for everyone but is most useful in a WH environment) - Making Ore sites in WH's automatically warpable instead of having to scan them down(Blob groups don't mine Ores in WH space) - Making wormholes open only AFTER someone has jumped through.(allowing Blob groups to amass in full readyness for a gank) - Adding extra static's and making WH's appear more often in all WH space(Again, for the blobs to search out more targets since small groups can't be bothered with all the scanning involved)... WH space is not for you. You should get (back) to nullsec. There you even have a local to be more safe.
Som Boty Super Mother Fan Club 38	Posted - 2016.05.16 05:38:18 - [34] - Quote Ni Neith wrote: RemSalak wrote: - Streamlining probing to track ships down faster(this works for everyone but is most useful in a WH environment) - Making Ore sites in WH's automatically warpable instead of having to scan them down(Blob groups don't mine Ores in WH space) - Making wormholes open only AFTER someone has jumped through.(allowing Blob groups to amass in full readyness for a gank) - Adding extra static's and making WH's appear more often in all WH space(Again, for the blobs to search out more targets since small groups can't be bothered with all the scanning involved)... WH space is not for you. You should get (back) to nullsec. There you even have a local to be more safe. Says the guy hiding behind a forum alt.
Ni Neith Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2016.05.16 08:13:47 - [35] - Quote Som Boty wrote: [quote=Ni Neith] Says the guy hiding behind a forum alt. Have you a problem with that?
Ni Neith Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2016.05.16 08:17:39 - [36] - Quote Som Boty wrote: Says the guy hiding behind a forum alt. Have you a problem with that? Som Boty wrote: I'm a solo wh sweller, with the current wh dynamics and citadel mechanics I won't be replacing my POS with a citadel anytime soon. I mean ****, I don't even have guns on one of my POS for the last three weeks and its STILL better than a citadel. Try to be a solo nullsec or lowsec dweller (your own pos, citadel) and then you come back and complain.
helana Tsero Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 469	Posted - 2016.05.16 09:01:25 - [37] - Quote edit. I must learn to behave... They are BOB's flock in need of a shephard. "... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." \| zoonr-Korsairs \| QFT !
Tsukino Stareine Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 1447	Posted - 2016.05.16 15:43:42 - [38] - Quote There are problems in wh space, however OP has not outlined any of them ;D
Som Boty Super Mother Fan Club 38	Posted - 2016.05.17 00:15:39 - [39] - Quote Ni Neith wrote: Som Boty wrote: Says the guy hiding behind a forum alt. Have you a problem with that? Som Boty wrote: I'm a solo wh sweller, with the current wh dynamics and citadel mechanics I won't be replacing my POS with a citadel anytime soon. I mean ****, I don't even have guns on one of my POS for the last three weeks and its STILL better than a citadel. Try to be a solo nullsec or lowsec dweller (your own pos, citadel) and then you come back and complain. I've been playing for almost 13 years... I used to run reactions in low sec. What's your point?
Ni Neith Hedion University Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2016.05.17 10:17:54 - [40] - Quote Som Boty wrote: I've been playing for almost 13 years... I used to run reactions in low sec. What's your point? Solo pos from some one man corp in lowsec? Give me a break please. My point is that you still can be solo in WHs and krab like a mad man while you can't do it any where else in hostile space.
Unconspicous Alt Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 16	Posted - 2016.05.17 17:27:43 - [41] - Quote Carrion Crow wrote: I think the OP should be excited about Citadels. Unlike a POS, I think a citadel will give small corps the chance to actually fight back - or at least hurt the attackers ;) You can tank everything a LARGE citadel can throw at you with just 2 T2 cruisers. You can take it down with 5 battleships. Now try do this with a deathstar pos, even if set on automatic defense, and tell me how the citadel is supposed to be a replacement for that.
Som Boty Super Mother Fan Club 39	Posted - 2016.05.17 18:46:21 - [42] - Quote Ni Neith wrote: Som Boty wrote: I've been playing for almost 13 years... I used to run reactions in low sec. What's your point? Solo pos from some one man corp in lowsec? Give me a break please. My point is that you still can be solo in WHs and krab like a mad man while you can't do it any where else in hostile space. It's true, wormholes are one of the safer places to be a low sec/null sec solo player, but its not the ONLY place.
Rek Seven Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 2227	Posted - 2016.05.18 08:35:54 - [43] - Quote Som Boty wrote: Try to be a solo nullsec or lowsec dweller (your own pos, citadel) and then you come back and complain. I had a solo pos in low sec, where i mined a moon for a while... You can crab in any part of space without a pos but if you choose to live in a region, wormholes are the only place where a POS is required, as opposed to High, low and null sec (NPC) all having station. The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Tsukino Stareine Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found 1448	Posted - 2016.05.18 09:54:00 - [44] - Quote Unconspicous Alt wrote: Carrion Crow wrote: I think the OP should be excited about Citadels. Unlike a POS, I think a citadel will give small corps the chance to actually fight back - or at least hurt the attackers ;) You can tank everything a LARGE citadel can throw at you with just 2 T2 cruisers. You can take it down with 5 battleships. Now try do this with a deathstar pos, even if set on automatic defense, and tell me how the citadel is supposed to be a replacement for that. Well this is just a straight up lie
George Gouillot Black Fox Marauders 107	Posted - 2016.05.21 06:59:54 - [45] - Quote Unconspicous Alt wrote: You can tank everything a LARGE citadel can throw at you with just 2 T2 cruisers. You can take it down with 5 battleships. Both wrong.

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