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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.17 05:48:00 -
[1]
Armor Repairers are always to lame
Medium Armor Repairer t2 = 320Hp per 12sec(my harbinger)
Large Shield Booster t2 = 720Hp per 12sec (any Drake or Ferox)
or
Large Armor Repairer t2 = 800Hp per 15sec
X-Large Shield Booster t2 = 1800Hp per 15sec (any Raven)
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Allantia
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.17 06:51:00 -
[2]
Armor tankers have plenty of other advantages to balance it out.
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.17 07:09:00 -
[3]
which?
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 11:22:00 -
[4]
hey hey
your basis for comparrison isnt right
Compare SAME SIZE.
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Kharakan
Amarr
Magnificent Beavers
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.02.17 12:18:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Mikal Drey
hey hey
your basis for comparrison isnt right
Compare SAME SIZE.
On a battleship, you fit LAR's or X-L SBoosters, don't you? 
this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.17 13:15:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 17/02/2007 13:15:36
Actually I dont :) However. . .
IF your comparing stats on modules you should compare Like for Like the only thing id agree atm is ther are no Xlarge Armor repairers. Xlarge Shield boosters eat up alot of CPU AND you dont fit a Battleship with 2x Xlarge boosters so once again you shouldnt compare fitting ships. the OP is about the modules not comparative notes on ships.
Medium armor repairer II
320hp / 12 seconds / 160 cap
Medium Shield Booster
90hp / 3 seconds / 60 cap
Cap usages
MAR = 160cap/12s \o/ Winner
MSB = 240cap/12s
HP Boost
MAR = 320hp/12s
SB = 360hp/12s \o/ Winner but that extra 40hp uses 80 more cap
If you want to compare setups then typicaly people will always Dual armor rep and use a mid slot for cap boosters. you wont see many Dual SB ships but you might get some with an amp. which will typically add 30% to boost ammount and not the 100% boost ammount an extra Armor rep would give.
You could also add the fact that shield tanks are lamer because you get less mid slots to work with and Booster/amp/cap only leaves minimal slots for hardeners. Compare that to Armor tanking with Dual rep's 3x hardenersa and a plate + a mid slot or more for cap boosters.
Ship comparisons
Tempest 5x mids
Raven 6x mids
Megathron 7x mids + 1 mid for cap
now which one has a better tank capabilities ?
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Valandril
Caldari
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:07:00 -
[7]
Well armor got also more resistances than shield, but in trade u need 2 reppers (1lar 1mart2 at least) to proprtly tank a battleship.
Also it free med slots for you so u can fit ewar ;]
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New drone ui
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Allantia
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: KingBobs Dawn
which?
A buffer of thousands of shield HP before their tank actually has to be engaged.
Ability to add more HP to their tank (large extender II add about 2600 sheild HP, 1600mm RT plate adds about 4000)
Hardeners that are easier to fit and use less cap (better resists)
Armor tankers typically have 7 low slots to work with, whereas shield tankers typically get 6 mids (in BSs, at least)
The ability to fit EWAR modules of whatever type without affecting their tank
The ability to fit cap injectors to support their tank without sacrificing part of their tank
Armor reps that, while slower, are more cap efficient.
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Redback911
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:12:00 -
[9]
...But u dont use cap to fire ur weapons, and every cookie cutter raven fits 2 heavy nos....
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podd0r
Fudgepackers R Us
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:17:00 -
[10]
but
mega has 7 lows, maybe use 2 for dmg mods..
raven has 5/6? low slots and can use 2/3 dmg mods without affecting the 6 slots it has left in its mid slots...
sorry for my grammar im german
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Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2007.02.17 19:41:00 -
[11]
a raven fitted for anti BS need siege launchers - true we can get some nice damge mods in lows, but fitting will be very tight and don't expect 1-2 heavy nos on a siege raven.
Conclusion: Things ain't the same and grass always seem better on the other side...
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.17 23:36:00 -
[12]
mostly is my armor down before i can use 1 cap booster and my ship have not enough cpu and egnergy grid for 2 armor repairers or an shield booster
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Arcadia1701
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2007.02.18 06:27:00 -
[13]
Things in eve are near to ballance atm id say. Just a few litle things need nerfing . fixing, NOS, nanoships, EW - mainly dampeners ( for the 4th time ) and cargo bays full of cap 800s  .
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.18 09:44:00 -
[14]
Edited by: KingBobs Dawn on 18/02/2007 09:42:31
armor tanker have maybe 5 or 10% more em resistence but armor tankers have less explosive/kinetic resistance
the restore-power difference between an shield booster an armor repairer is more as 5 or 10% difference
and shield tanker have more cpu as armor tanker
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.18 10:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: KingBobs Dawn
Edited by: KingBobs Dawn on 18/02/2007 09:42:31
armor tanker have maybe 5 or 10% more em resistence but armor tankers have less explosive/kinetic resistance
the restore-power difference between an shield booster an armor repairer is more as 5 or 10% difference
and shield tanker have more cpu as armor tanker
typical Shield EM resist. . 0%
typical Armo EXP resist. . 10%
the resist arguement doesnt wash either. and also the grid req's dont either. Shield people get more cpu(caldari's) but use launchers which also require lots and lots of CPU. there will never be a true balance between armor and shield. BOTH are affected by the ship you choose to fly and the setup you choose to go with. If you give me a 7 slot shield tanker then we can revisit balance between them 2 and even then can you give me a low slot Cap Booster too.
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.18 10:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: KingBobs Dawn on 18/02/2007 10:37:51
remember an damager modifier need low-slot like heat sink armor tanker doeas not use 7 or 8 low slots for tanking only
i like to fit 1 or 2 heatsniks for more damage
or does an drake or raven pilot never use ballistic controls ?
and dont forget power diagnostic systems
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.18 12:42:00 -
[17]
Megathron
2x rep
3x hardeners
2x Damage mods
1x Cap booster
Web
scram
MWD
thats a dedicated tank + PvP capabilities
I dont even fly caldari or Gallente us Matari are totally ****** in das boot. for slots. but once again i reiterate that armor rep Vs shield rep ISNT a debate on ship capabilities. the modules themselves are pretty well balanced its the ships that arent. your OP is about the reps and not ship layouts. That debate will go on forever.
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Ferocious FeAr
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.18 16:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Arcadia1701
Things in eve are near to ballance atm id say. Just a few litle things need nerfing . fixing, NOS, nanoships, EW - mainly dampeners ( for the 4th time ) and cargo bays full of cap 800s .
Funny. You want to fix nos but yet you want to fix cap 800s. Think about what you are saying. If anything cap 800s stop those nos boats from totally disabling anything it touches.
Don't hate me, learn to love me |
KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.18 23:06:00 -
[19]
2 armor repairers are not realy able
2 Large Armor Repairer needs 4600 Energie grid
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Allantia
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: KingBobs Dawn
2 armor repairers are not realy able
2 Large Armor Repairer needs 4600 Energie grid
The Mega has nearly 20000 PG with Engineering 5, for frack's sake. You can fit a full rack of large ion blasters and dual LAR with 2500 PG leftover.
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Tanaka Atsuko
Gallente
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:18:00 -
[21]
i get 126 Hp repaired every 3.2 seconds with rigs this is plenty enough for my AF making it a very tough nut to *****
[url=http://aftermath-alliance.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=19724]
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KingBobs Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.19 23:42:00 -
[22]
an the heavy cap booster needs energy grid
an i flying an apoc and my weapons needs more energy grid
so lets talk about battle cruisers the have only 6 low slots
and why the hell should i use 2 slots for repairers the repairer ist just to lame thats all
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Lance Hawke
New Age Solutions
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.02.20 12:37:00 -
[23]
LISTEN to what people are telling you.
Train your fitting skills higher than lvl 1, then maybe you'll be able to fit a half decent setup.
If you still think shield tanking is better, train caldari?
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sakana
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.20 13:14:00 -
[24]
imo armor and shield tanks are pretty well balanced. they both have weaknesses and strengths, and prosper in different situations. nothing needs to be changed here.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.02.20 16:19:00 -
[25]
There is one thing with shields that is a bit over the top and that's deadspace faction shield boosters. Gistii A and X types of all sizes.
But other than that they are mostly balanced with strengths and weaknesses on both sides.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
sakana
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.20 18:16:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Hoshi
There is one thing with shields that is a bit over the top and that's deadspace faction shield boosters. Gistii A and X types of all sizes.
But other than that they are mostly balanced with strengths and weaknesses on both sides.
<3 my corpum a-type armor rep
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Dronte
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.20 22:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hoshi
There is one thing with shields that is a bit over the top and that's deadspace faction shield boosters. Gistii A and X types of all sizes.
But other than that they are mostly balanced with strengths and weaknesses on both sides.
Sadly i must agree, even though i totally love my Dual Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster Cerb, but a frigate size module booster the same as a cruiser sized module (57HP per boost for the Gistii, and 60 for the Medium Shield Booster), is just plain insane if you ask me. Partly due to the nasty boost bonus but also for the cap usage involved. With my current skills, and a Gist C-Type SBA, i get 77.37HP every 2 seconds for 12.22 cap. Why should i use a Medium Shield Booster, which has higher fitting and skill requirements, and get about the same?
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.20 23:04:00 -
[28]
gist SB's make me *** or at least very very excited.
for NPC'ing the cap savings are ******* superb and thats what make all the gist SB's so damn cool. But also if you look at some of those corpum armor rep's (**cough**sakana**cough**astarte**cough**) they can be just as good if not better.
The WEAKNESS for sb's are cap and the Gist can effectivly double your ability to run the repper. But this is more noticable in PvE rather than PvP.
the WEAKNESS for armor reps is duration and the faction ar's get great time duration and HP boosts :/ which is very beneficial for PvP.
i would say that armor rep = PvP Shield rep = PvE. IN GENERAL. Yes there are a few good shield tanking ships out there but there are just as many very well setup AR ones. Neither is really better than the other they are just very different.
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Shayla Etherodyne
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Posted - 2007.02.21 14:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Allantia
Originally by: KingBobs Dawn
which?
A buffer of thousands of shield HP before their tank actually has to be engaged.
vs a buffer of thousan of armor HP before hull is engaged for shield tankers
Originally by: Allantia
Ability to add more HP to their tank (large extender II add about 2600 sheild HP, 1600mm RT plate adds about 4000)
increased weight, reduced speed and agility for the added protection.
Originally by: Allantia
Hardeners that are easier to fit and use less cap (better resists)
shield it point that self regenerates
Originally by: Allantia
Armor tankers typically have 7 low slots to work with, whereas shield tankers typically get 6 mids (in BSs, at least)
ok
Originally by: Allantia
The ability to fit EWAR modules of whatever type without affecting their tank
The ability to add traking and damaging enhancing modules without affecting the thank
Originally by: Allantia
The ability to fit cap injectors to support their tank without sacrificing part of their tank
Ability to fit power diagnostic control without sacrificing tank (more power, more shield and faster recarge)
Originally by: Allantia
Armor reps that, while slower, are more cap efficient.
Often enough fast is more useful than more cap efficent.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.02.21 16:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: sakana
Originally by: Hoshi
There is one thing with shields that is a bit over the top and that's deadspace faction shield boosters. Gistii A and X types of all sizes.
But other than that they are mostly balanced with strengths and weaknesses on both sides.
<3 my corpum a-type armor rep
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
39 hp/sec
0.38 cap/hp
Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster (it drops now after the new complexes where released in Rev)
56.7 hp/sec
0.22 cap/hp
With skills it becomes 52 hp/sec for the armor rep (still less than the shield booster) and 0.17 cap/hp for the shield booster which is less half the cap usage of the armor rep.
So I will repeat what I said before. Deadspace faction shield boosters are out of line.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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