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Hasak Rain Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.17 19:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Tarkan Kador Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Gort Originally by: Hasak Rain Originally by: Montague Zooma The biggest flaw in this game is the elevation of betrayal as the ultimate tactic. The recent Titan kill is a perfect example. Someone acted friendly, built up some trust and got into a position to sabotage a Titan. I don't care about game "violence". That's just play. Blow up my ship, big deal, I'll go get another one. The ship isn't "real". Friendships, though, are real. Trust is real. Betray my trust and you don't hurt my imaginary ship...you hurt me. Eve encourages people to be sociopaths. That's not healthy for your personality, and it's not healthy for the game. Successful MMOs grow and stay in business because of the interpersonal relationships that develop. The in game friendships keep people playing long after they otherwise would have moved on to someting else. It's a lot harder for those friendships to flourish when people always have to wonder "is this guy just trying to screw me?" Oh please. It encourages people to be socialpaths? What this game really does is encourage people to make really stupid posts. Ones that try to connect an individuals in game actions to their real life personalities. It is like saying people who go to Horror films are all Murders or have homicidal tendencies. If it bothers you so much, there are numerous other games out there which have in game checks and mechanics to prevent these Socialpaths from harming your pixels. Bad reply, really. By your tone, as well as your form of argument, you are validating his point. Gort Why? Because I don't agree with his idiotic view that actions inside a video game reflect the type of person someone is in RL? If anything, YOU validated MY point that people post stupid garbage on here. If the current trend continues, then what you'll end up having are alliances like BoB and Goon, who do not let in people they don't know outside the game, for fear of spying, and the damage spying can do. The whole espionage/counter-espionage thing has become such a game breaker, that its seems a whole lot easier not to trust anyone you don't already know outside the game, than to trust acquaintances you meet only in EVE. Still, there is a BIG difference between not trusting someone in a video game and being a real life Socialpath. I do agree that allinces are going way too far with the espionage tactics and it is a bad thing when these measures are being taken outside of the game {IE: hacking websites} but that isn't really what I was talking about.
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.02.17 20:03:00 - [32] Edited by: Tarkan Kador on 17/02/2007 20:00:44 Originally by: Hasak Rain Still, there is a BIG difference between not trusting someone in a video game and being a real life Socialpath. I do agree that allinces are going way too far with the espionage tactics and it is a bad thing when these measures are being taken outside of the game {IE: hacking websites} but that isn't really what I was talking about. I think its only a matter of time before somebody ends up in a hospital, because of all the "one upsmanship" gone sour. That's why I try and steer clear of any of that "big time" alliance play. It ain't worth it, given how the line beteween game and RL is getting more blurred by the moment. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected])
Lienzo Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.17 20:04:00 - [33] I am against sharding. Fact is, when EVE hits 50k online, you will start to see marked difference in the fundamental nature of playstyles. Simply by having people present or abundant in most all systems will dramatically affect political and economic options. Strategies that worked for basal level corp survival will have to change, and most likely grow more aggressive and more paranoid. The way characters make a living will adapt. Loyalties will shift and grow more complex. Leaderships will delegate more. Players will become more specialized in their responsibilities if social industrialization kicks off. That is all provided CCP does not intervene to head off EVE social development. Past examples of CCP intervention against a darwinian universe included bumping up NPC bounties, introducing farmable cosmos and complexes, and making POS dependent on ice farming, and generally just extending the starter empire economy into the endgame. We shall just have to wait and see. "I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar."
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.02.17 20:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Lienzo I am against sharding. Fact is, when EVE hits 50k online, you will start to see marked difference in the fundamental nature of playstyles. Simply by having people present or abundant in most all systems will dramatically affect political and economic options. Strategies that worked for basal level corp survival will have to change, and most likely grow more aggressive and more paranoid. The way characters make a living will adapt. Loyalties will shift and grow more complex. Leaderships will delegate more. Players will become more specialized in their responsibilities if social industrialization kicks off. That is all provided CCP does not intervene to head off EVE social development. Past examples of CCP intervention against a darwinian universe included bumping up NPC bounties, introducing farmable cosmos and complexes, and making POS dependent on ice farming, and generally just extending the starter empire economy into the endgame. We shall just have to wait and see. Actually, I don't see relationships becoming more complex, with more delegation. You can't delegate when you are paranoid, unless you delegate what you formerly did with others, toward accounts you purchase yourself. I see people just shift more of the responsibility toward alts, and less toward internet strangers, save some arrangements like a bunch of friends at the office playing with eachother, or families, who have ties made strong by factors outside what they do in the game. Darwin can't apply here, because this isn't a closed environment, isolated from outside factors. In fact, the more this game progresses, the more the outside factors have more of a role determing the reality in the game, than in-game choices do. Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 24000 bytes, 400x120 pixels. - Devil ([email protected])
Lienzo Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.17 20:52:00 - [35] That's why "effective corporations" is singled out. Reliance on alts is a basal level enterprise. It means you are just getting by on a minimum of risk, but don't accomplish much on a day to day basis. Quantitative changes can cause qualitative effects when they surpass a certain plateau. An example will be a neutral, or (hah) an insufficiently trusted blue in the same system you always used to NPC in. The expectations of the individual will have to adapt to new circumstances. It's always less of what is being changed and more of how people consistently react to it that really shapes the game because people minimize their risk to the point that it becomes the only area in which to engage them. Ambitious players will embark on more complex schemes of mitigating risk in larger projects. Groups of players will create better networks for dealing efficiently with individual losses to the point that few people actually pay them much heed beyond a monthly attrition index. Trust between people will become more of a ritualized affair, and involve more established parties. When it becomes an option to dance a certain dance, everyone will have to learn the steps to keep up financially if they want to get ahead. People may create other professions to complement these stable organizations. "Mutual Profit" will likely become the meme of a post-grinder EVE. You could call it the urbanization of EVE. "I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar."
Lienzo Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.17 20:52:00 - [36] That's why "effective corporations" is singled out. Reliance on alts is a basal level enterprise. It means you are just getting by on a minimum of risk, but don't accomplish much on a day to day basis. Quantitative changes can cause qualitative effects when they surpass a certain plateau. An example will be a neutral, or (hah) an insufficiently trusted blue in the same system you always used to NPC in. The expectations of the individual will have to adapt to new circumstances. It's always less of what is being changed and more of how people consistently react to it that really shapes the game because people minimize their risk to the point that it becomes the only area in which to engage them. Ambitious players will embark on more complex schemes of mitigating risk in larger projects. Groups of players will create better networks for dealing efficiently with individual losses to the point that few people actually pay them much heed beyond a monthly attrition index. Trust between people will become more of a ritualized affair, and involve more established parties. When it becomes an option to dance a certain dance, everyone will have to learn the steps to keep up financially if they want to get ahead. People may create other professions to complement these stable organizations. "Mutual Profit" will likely become the meme of a post-grinder EVE. You could call it the urbanization of EVE. "I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar."
operated Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.02.17 21:04:00 - [37] To the op : I agree with you m8 , ppl dont care bout a good fight anymore all they wana c is a killmail no matter how many ppl it took them.They forget the rush you get from a good fight . Sometyhing rlly screwed eve over is t2 bpo . Not to mention hearing bout 1000 ppl blobbing up to go into 1 system to kill a pos or something .Its ridiculous .Maybe eve system getting to small to hold 30k players .
Tornado	Posted - 2007.02.17 21:13:00 - [38] Edited by: Tornado on 17/02/2007 21:10:36 Well i started playing eve early 2004, and was enjoying it much, however eve then lost alot of its players to a plague this plague was "World of Warcraft" i went and played world of warcraft for 3 years after that i got a full 9/9 t3 set and a MoM for my Pala , which is the kind of equivlant of having a Titan in eve.. i suppose or maybe a mothership as it wasnt really a legendary like the staff .. But anyway. I quit wow before it the expansion, simple cos it was a PVE game really, the pvp you had nothing to lose if you have nothing to lose when fighting in pvp and your enemy has nothing to lose there is no adrenaline rush. Unlike what you get when you pvp in eve. However one thing that made me kept playing wow was friendship and the friends you made in your guild, Eve isant as friendly of a game, and as many people say most succesufl people scam,lie and betray to make a living in eve. antoher thing with eve is the fact that ISK can get u anything u want as long as you have the skills trained for it, in wow it wasnt the case, you could have 1billion gold but it wont get u the best weapons in game, the way you got your items in eve was to work as a team, trust eachother and as with all MMO's Grind your ass off! But PVP in EvE is still the best of all MMO's however the only thing i dont like is how rare it sometimes is to get a good fight or a fair fight, hopefully factional warfare might make it so you can get a good fight on your hand and in some cases get a fight at all :D
Lienzo Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.17 21:19:00 - [39] Edited by: Lienzo on 17/02/2007 21:16:43 There's really only a few feasible ways to reduce blobbage. Make assault against an enemy require multiple blobs, and defense also require multiple blobs. Scenario: 200man A vs. 200man B Problem 1 - A defends 10 assets with 20man squads. B forms one blob and knocks each one out sequentially. Problem 2 - A defends 1 assets with 200man squads. B forms 10 blobs and knocks out 9/10 assets, or squares off to accomplish nada. Solution: Make corps and fleets dependent upon having their own assets, so that rival fleets can sabotage them if they leave home. Fuel for Capital ships should come SOLELY from POS, should be contraband, and prohibited from the market by the ingame SCC. NO POS, friendly or commercial -> NO Dreads. Dreads & Carriers shouldn't dock at stations either. Smaller corps are currently protected by only one thing: the laziness of their rivals. Frankly, I think this is fine, and a feudalist model of working out relationships between weaker and stronger empires is fine. Namely, vassalage and diplomacy. The universe is unfair, and I think humans generally prefer it that way. Any anti-blob tools or weapons will just be used by blobs to kill other blobs or even skirmishers unless the weapons are very very cleverly devised. "I have not been podded and run out of isk. I am merely camping my hangar."
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.17 22:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Hasak Rain Oh please. It encourages people to be socialpaths? What this game really does is encourage people to make really stupid posts. Ones that try to connect an individuals in game actions to their real life personalities. It is like saying people who go to Horror films are all Murders or have homicidal tendencies. What do people do at horror movies? They sit there and watch the screen. They may get scared. They may get an adrenaline rush. But they do not murder people. A player pirating in Eve is just blowing up pixels, playing a game. It's not an aspect of the game I enjoy, but it's just a game. I am in no way saying people who play pirates in game are thieves and murderers in real life. That's someone else's argument, not mine. However, what about the player who pretends to be your friend in game? The player who chats with you about things in your personal life, shows interest in your family, hobbies, political views, etc? The player who earns your trust, makes you believe you're buddies, all in order to blow up some stupid pixels at the right moment? To spell it out even more plainly for you, you aren't shooting at someone for real, but you are lying to them for real. I have no problem shooting your imaginary ship. But I'm not going to lie to you to make you believe I'm your friend when in fact I'm just trying to screw you over. That's sick. You can't convince me that's a healthy thing to do. And I don't think it's so much a case of people's personalities manifesting in their playstyle...it's the damn game encouraging people to do unethical things they normally wouldn't do. There's something fundamentally wrong with a game that foments so much distrust. Aside from the morality aspect, it undermines the social structures that are needed to make this a prosperous MMO. Originally by: Hasak Rain I do agree that allinces are going way too far with the espionage tactics and it is a bad thing when these measures are being taken outside of the game {IE: hacking websites} but that isn't really what I was talking about. Well, guess what, dude? That is what I'm talking about. The game seems to encourage over the top behavior. They even have to have a special GM to make sure the devs aren't cheating. How crazy is that? Something is wrong here. Which is a pity, because Eve has a lot of good things going for it. This pervasive "screw you" mentality and the resulting paranoia is Eve's biggest liability. Or maybe I'm just lying.
Anndy Caldari Praetorian Black Guard	Posted - 2007.02.17 23:32:00 - [41] exactly the community in this game has really gone to hell the last year or so and as the game grows i only see it getting worse and its nice to see some people agree with me the problem isn't really new players being to much diffrent from the older players its the fact that a select few will do anything to get ahead in the game, and that spreads more and more then as people join the game thats what they see happening so they think thats the way this game is played so they turn around and play the exact same thing spreading it more and more the dirty things in this game are like a plague it will keep spreading and spreading until finally it consumes almost everything then only a few will be left trying to pick up the pieces Please resize your signature to the limits specified in the forum rules, thanks. -wystler ([email protected])
Tiodus Gallente City of Certitude	Posted - 2007.02.17 23:40:00 - [42] That's right. Even if you honestly build a relationship based on trust, there's no reprimand if you all of a sudden decide to go the broad way. Nowhere else is this possible, as someone stated it's against the law in rl, also other mmo's don't condone this type of behaviour. Looking at eve from another point again it's obviously designed and built by smart people. What has kept me here is the fact that they atleast are consciously aware of the opportunities beyond grinding for levels and the like; therefore there's the biggest chance wrongdoings will be rectified here and not by changing game. Ofcourse limits must be put; I also refrain from participating in the bigger confligts because it's just so easy for anyone to turn sour and destroy a lot. Well this was going to be a short post so I'll just leave it at this atm Regards, -Tiodus
Khatred OMG I can post in the CAOD section now	Posted - 2007.02.17 23:49:00 - [43] So the OP identified the same problems that plagued all mmorpgs with pvp. I haven't played Ultima Online but I heard stories. However, Asheron's Call pvp server had it's fair share of metagamers, Dark Ages of Camelot did and the full pvp server had the worst, Shadowbane had it's headlines stories. Eve only goes on the same track. Also all mmorpgs (be it pvp or not) communities tend to get worse (in terms of whinage and imaturity) as they grow. This can also be an observer misperception but I doubt it. So really, that should tell you that it's never or almost never the fault of the game, it's the fault of the people playing it. And competing anonymously (as in without fear of real life repercussions) tends to get the worst out of people. _______________________________________________ CondorKestrelMerlinGriffinHeronBantamAtronImicus IncursusMaulusNavitasTristanBreacherBurstProbe \o/ I got Eve content in my sig.
Neesa Corrinne Black Watch Legionnaires Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Roue Originally by: Anndy .............. having a patch or expansion with a lot of content and new ships/items is all nice but we only see this about every 3-6 months these days.... i honestly think if CCP were to release a patch every month with a few new things the game would stay fresher then the way they currently release a lot of stuff at all at once ..... I think what you meant to say is the way CCP releases FREE expansions every 3-6 months that don't cost you anything to continue playing the game you bought but in now improved forms that are FREE of cost as in you don't have to continue putting money into their pockets to see a new aspect of a game. You know.. FREE... kind of.. FREE. let's see.. EQ.. 9 expansions I think? conservatively 30 dollars each. That's... 270 dollars in purchasable expansions and they came how frequently? every 3-6 months. I don't know of many other mmo's that like to bypass a 30-50dollar charge to their entire game subcriber base. CCP is one of the few. That in of itself makes your post sound like a selfish impatient whine. And it tains the rest of your commentary kind of badly. Mark my words. Write them down. Copy them into your hard drive. Print them off and save them in a file. The day WILL come when EVE charges for expansions. I can absolutely 100% guarantee it. The reason that EVE has had completely free expansions thus far is 100% due to the fact their player base in the past has been tenuous at best. Face it, EVE doesn't even control 1% of the market share of MMO's, so it's not in their best interest to charge for expansions. The moment that EVE takes a larger chunk of the market, then they will immediately begin charging for expansions. It's the same trick you see drug dealers use in the high school parking lot. You give out free samples until you've got a few people hooked, and then they start coming back and offering you money for more. The day will come when we will pay for expansions. Especially when they really start ramping up for the WoD universe and need the extra capital to hire the dev team for it.
J Valkor	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:11:00 - [45] Would you guys like some napkins for your tears?
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Khatred So the OP identified the same problems that plagued all mmorpgs with pvp. I haven't played Ultima Online but I heard stories. However, Asheron's Call pvp server had it's fair share of metagamers, Dark Ages of Camelot did and the full pvp server had the worst, Shadowbane had it's headlines stories. Eve only goes on the same track. Also all mmorpgs (be it pvp or not) communities tend to get worse (in terms of whinage and imaturity) as they grow. This can also be an observer misperception but I doubt it. So really, that should tell you that it's never or almost never the fault of the game, it's the fault of the people playing it. And competing anonymously (as in without fear of real life repercussions) tends to get the worst out of people. IOW: It's the anonymity of the internet.
Neesa Corrinne Black Watch Legionnaires Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:18:00 - [47] No need for napkins. I'll cry on my American dollars and then send them to whichever form of entertainment I choose. Benjamin Franklin will still be smirking as he goes wherever I tell him to. The Dev's know this fact as much I do, which is why they take all legitimate grievances seriously, even if they don't reply to them. :P
Anndy Caldari Praetorian Black Guard	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:20:00 - [48] Edited by: Anndy on 18/02/2007 00:18:47 actually they dont charge for expansion for a few reasons the only way you can really get the game is to download from this site, its very rare to find a boxed version in a store which tells me CCP would prefer not to pay to market and publish a boxed version of the game which they would have to do if they wanted us to buy expansions also in every game i know of you have the option of playing the original game or the expansion but with eve thats impossible at the moment, they would have to have another server for the expanded version and for the original or force people to buy the expansion if they wish to keep playing but forcing it on people could possibly cause them to lose a lot of customers so thats not really in their best intrest so it would be pretty hard for them to charge for an expansion the way things work now, they would have to make some serious changes Please resize your signature to the limits specified in the forum rules, thanks. -wystler ([email protected])
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: Roue Originally by: Anndy .............. having a patch or expansion with a lot of content and new ships/items is all nice but we only see this about every 3-6 months these days.... i honestly think if CCP were to release a patch every month with a few new things the game would stay fresher then the way they currently release a lot of stuff at all at once ..... I think what you meant to say is the way CCP releases FREE expansions every 3-6 months that don't cost you anything to continue playing the game you bought but in now improved forms that are FREE of cost as in you don't have to continue putting money into their pockets to see a new aspect of a game. You know.. FREE... kind of.. FREE. let's see.. EQ.. 9 expansions I think? conservatively 30 dollars each. That's... 270 dollars in purchasable expansions and they came how frequently? every 3-6 months. I don't know of many other mmo's that like to bypass a 30-50dollar charge to their entire game subcriber base. CCP is one of the few. That in of itself makes your post sound like a selfish impatient whine. And it tains the rest of your commentary kind of badly. Mark my words. Write them down. Copy them into your hard drive. Print them off and save them in a file. The day WILL come when EVE charges for expansions. I can absolutely 100% guarantee it. The reason that EVE has had completely free expansions thus far is 100% due to the fact their player base in the past has been tenuous at best. Face it, EVE doesn't even control 1% of the market share of MMO's, so it's not in their best interest to charge for expansions. The moment that EVE takes a larger chunk of the market, then they will immediately begin charging for expansions. It's the same trick you see drug dealers use in the high school parking lot. You give out free samples until you've got a few people hooked, and then they start coming back and offering you money for more. The day will come when we will pay for expansions. Especially when they really start ramping up for the WoD universe and need the extra capital to hire the dev team for it. Exactly what % of the market are they waiting for? The MMO market has millions of people in it, Eve will likely never see 1 million. And it's gaining people so fast at the moment that it's exceeding the ability of the servers to keep up when they blob up. I don't think they are worried about growth stopping, let alone a decline in sub numbers. Of course they may one day charge for expansions, but not for the reason you state. ---------- IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve
Hayah Theos	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:26:00 - [50] "CONFLICT OF INTEREST" That phrase sums up what is wrong here and what needs to be addressed. It is absolutely bad policy to allow CCP employees to play the game on TQ with any permanent relationships with in-game Corps or persons. If they need to playtest, they should do it as "ad hoc" pilots introduced into the game for short periods of test time and should NEVER be allowed permanent positions in-game. As for participating in fleet battles.... NEVER ON TQ! If they do, they are inherently causing "game imbalance". If you want to playtest in large fleet engagements....DO IT ON THE TEST SERVER and invite pilots to fly for your test fleet setup..... BUT DON'T DO IT ON TQ! The opportunities for cheating by CCP employees and the damage that can cause to player positions in-game is an unacceptible risk. I began playing EVE about a year ago and almost quit when I finally understood the economics of the Tech 2 lottery and how badly it has destroyed "game balance". Understanding T2 made me turn to Piracy because I realized trying to build anything in Eve thru a Corp was a waste of time and resources, since entities like BOB and other T2 CARTEL members had the Corp/zero space "owned". (The T2 BPO Lottery should be scrapped.) Now I find that T2 is ONLY THE TIP OF THE ICEBURG. CCP employee cheating and bias!!! What next!!?? I just renewed my subscription for another year because I was going to give Piracy a try. As a Pirate, you don't care about imbalance....in fact, you feed on it! But have I made a mistake?? I'll tell you what.. I'll give you that year to straighten this mess out because I think the game is great WHEN IT IS RUN FAIRLY AND BALANCED. If by then I have'nt been convinced that these CCP created "GOD MODE-players" have been removed.... my subscription will be moving to someone elses product.
Xendie Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:27:00 - [51] since ccp doesnt discourage underhanded exploit tactics and down right off the map tactics i dont see why the rest of eve shouldnt start finding out what ip's that bob's capital pilots have and do the same as digitalcommunist have used them for. also why are not people posting dianabolics or sir molle's name and work adress in here as it seemes to be allowed also. it seems to me that ccp has set the bar on what is allowed so lets everyone with some evil skills use them to the max. and im basing these assumptions on the fact that bob has done those things and not gotten a ban so it cant be against any rules. just go for it ladies and gentlemens if they dont ban bob members for it then they dont have any basis to ban you either. Originally by: Dianabolic I've never cheated, I've never witnessed those I fly with, cheat and I guarentee you that if I DID witness such a thing I
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:29:00 - [52] Originally by: Hayah Theos "CONFLICT OF INTEREST" That phrase sums up what is wrong here and what needs to be addressed. It is absolutely bad policy to allow CCP employees to play the game on TQ with any permanent relationships with in-game Corps or persons. If they need to playtest, they should do it as "ad hoc" pilots introduced into the game for short periods of test time and should NEVER be allowed permanent positions in-game. As for participating in fleet battles.... NEVER ON TQ! If they do, they are inherently causing "game imbalance". In that case they can never see what the end game is like and any problems there are with it. And how are they inherently causing imbalance by participating in fleet ops? ---------- IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve
Hayah Theos	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:40:00 - [53] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Hayah Theos "CONFLICT OF INTEREST" That phrase sums up what is wrong here and what needs to be addressed. It is absolutely bad policy to allow CCP employees to play the game on TQ with any permanent relationships with in-game Corps or persons. If they need to playtest, they should do it as "ad hoc" pilots introduced into the game for short periods of test time and should NEVER be allowed permanent positions in-game. As for participating in fleet battles.... NEVER ON TQ! If they do, they are inherently causing "game imbalance". In that case they can never see what the end game is like and any problems there are with it. And how are they inherently causing imbalance by participating in fleet ops? *********************************** CCP DEVS or other employees flying in TQ are causing imbalance by participating on one Corp "side" or the other.... their intimate inside knowlegde of program quirks, bugs, and ideosyncracies inherently give them an edge ordinary players don't have. T20 being a BoB capital commander was INEXCUSIBLE. NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTS!
Tar Magen Amarr Arx Amarria	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:41:00 - [54] Originally by: Hasak Rain If it bothers you so much, there are numerous other games out there which have in game checks and mechanics to prevent these Socialpaths from harming your pixels. That's the problem, isn't it. Whatever online gaming experience you find to be good, you can be assured that immature people, griefers, exploiters, cheaters, scammers and metagamers will all be piling in soon enough, searching for any way they can to spoil the experience. It's not limited to EVE.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Hayah Theos Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Hayah Theos "CONFLICT OF INTEREST" That phrase sums up what is wrong here and what needs to be addressed. It is absolutely bad policy to allow CCP employees to play the game on TQ with any permanent relationships with in-game Corps or persons. If they need to playtest, they should do it as "ad hoc" pilots introduced into the game for short periods of test time and should NEVER be allowed permanent positions in-game. As for participating in fleet battles.... NEVER ON TQ! If they do, they are inherently causing "game imbalance". In that case they can never see what the end game is like and any problems there are with it. And how are they inherently causing imbalance by participating in fleet ops? *********************************** CCP DEVS or other employees flying in TQ are causing imbalance by participating on one Corp "side" or the other.... their intimate inside knowlegde of program quirks, bugs, and ideosyncracies inherently give them an edge ordinary players don't have. T20 being a BoB capital commander was INEXCUSIBLE. NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTS! Quirks, bugs and idiosyncrasies won't save you when you're called primary, and won't make much difference what with the 50 other BSes firing at your target. They'd have to be FC to make a difference on a higher level. That I'd have a problem with. ---------- IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve
Hayah Theos	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Hayah Theos Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Hayah Theos "CONFLICT OF INTEREST" That phrase sums up what is wrong here and what needs to be addressed. It is absolutely bad policy to allow CCP employees to play the game on TQ with any permanent relationships with in-game Corps or persons. If they need to playtest, they should do it as "ad hoc" pilots introduced into the game for short periods of test time and should NEVER be allowed permanent positions in-game. As for participating in fleet battles.... NEVER ON TQ! If they do, they are inherently causing "game imbalance". In that case they can never see what the end game is like and any problems there are with it. And how are they inherently causing imbalance by participating in fleet ops? *********************************** CCP DEVS or other employees flying in TQ are causing imbalance by participating on one Corp "side" or the other.... their intimate inside knowlegde of program quirks, bugs, and ideosyncracies inherently give them an edge ordinary players don't have. T20 being a BoB capital commander was INEXCUSIBLE. NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTS! Quirks, bugs and idiosyncrasies won't save you when you're called primary, and won't make much difference what with the 50 other BSes firing at your target. They'd have to be FC to make a difference on a higher level. That I'd have a problem with. *********************************** And you don't think T20 had an undue "imbalancing" effect in favor of BoB?? LOL.... pass me whatever you are smoking...
Anndy Caldari Praetorian Black Guard	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:50:00 - [57] Edited by: Anndy on 18/02/2007 00:47:34 CCP made the game and they have the right to play it, the best we can do is trust them to do the right thing and not use their dev powers or the tricks they know to get ahead we all agree what t20 did was wrong and most of us know how much we all hate bob but thats not what this thread is about :P Please resize your signature to the limits specified in the forum rules, thanks. -wystler ([email protected])
Hayah Theos	Posted - 2007.02.18 00:58:00 - [58] Originally by: Anndy Edited by: Anndy on 18/02/2007 00:47:34 CCP made the game and they have the right to play it, the best we can do is trust them to do the right thing and not use their dev powers or the tricks they know to get ahead we all agree what t20 did was wrong and most of us know how much we all hate bob but thats not what this thread is about :P ************************************* To refresh your memory about the OP... It is "Why this game is going down hill".... I beg to differ with you....My point about CCP allowing (and apparently encouraging) CONFLICT OF INTEREST situations with their employees playing the game is EXACTLY on point. I don't dislike BoB...but BOD is inexcusable and not what I paid good money to participate in. There are plenty of casinos in Arizona where the card decks are stacked too, but I would never go there to gamble. E
Anndy Caldari Praetorian Black Guard	Posted - 2007.02.18 01:07:00 - [59] yes but honestly how many devs do you think are willing to risk their job over a game? for most devs their real life is more important then cheating at a game would you really risk everything for a game? losing your job could mean losing your house, your car, and possibly even your family its just not a risk most would be willing to take Please resize your signature to the limits specified in the forum rules, thanks. -wystler ([email protected])
Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.18 01:09:00 - [60] Edited by: Richard Aiel on 18/02/2007 01:08:57 IBTL I personally think there are several reasons the game is "going down hill". One is the "help" that certain corps are getting. And no, I truly dont believe that its just one person. Im honestly beginning to believe that this is an ongoing problem such as we arent meant to discover. I told someone I know (who doesnt play EVE) what had happened in EVE with all that, and he said, "sounds like theres something more going on there". Another is the locking and deleting of threads that deal with this situation. I realize that they need to keep the forums clean, and deleting unnecessary posts are a must, but deleting almost EVERY post about a certain topic within 3 minutes or so of the post is very excessive. One last thing, when node crashing not only seems not to be an exploit (though if you think about it it is - exploiting the stability of a node to win a fight) but in essence seems to be allowed by CCP, and therefore becomes just another fighting tactic, theres something seriously wrong there PERKOSET & OXYCODONE IS FUN!!! Lets see how long till this post lives...

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