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Evil Salmon
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Posted - 2007.02.18 00:11:00 -
[1]
Ok. I have not suffered heavy losses in PvP due to someone using what most people would call a 'Cheap' Tactic, but I have heard of many things like this happening. A Titan agroed by a Spy alt, Ships killed during Node crashes, the old log off in a pod to avoid a dictor sphere, log in traps, There are tons of examples.
People who use these tactics I look down on. I once logged off in a dictor sphere bubble, then thought about my actions, and decided the only honorable thing to do was log back on and take my beating... I log back on the guys operating the blockade were suprised I logged back in. I lost a set of +3 implants.
So when I talk about not using these cheap tactics I talk after I've walked the walk. I personally would let a Titan go if a Node crashed, not use a spy alt to agro a Titan.
I would open this thread to the general public to state ONLY the times they've done the honorable thing, or have had someone do the honorable thing.
This isn't a thread to say "this was cheap" and then the other party saying "No it wasn't"
Keep it clean please.
Also this is my alt account, I can't log into my main atm. Can't figure out why and I'm at work
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James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.02.18 00:14:00 -
[2]
Honor is what people start talking about when they're losing and need an excuse as to why.
Just like how only the other guys "freedom fighters" can engage in a "cowardly" attack.
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Swiftness
Caldari VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2007.02.18 00:38:00 -
[3]
Where's the fun in jumping blindly if you already know you're gonna log off in case of trouble ???
I play for fun, not cheap tactics : they ruin my and the other players' fun.
Maybe that's why I'm not in a uber 0.0 alliance Having fun dying by cheats/winning with cheats guys ?
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.18 00:48:00 -
[4]
I sometimes give pirates kills they otherwise wouldn't get by attempting to go through chokepoint systems when I know they are camped, rather than simply waiting until later.
Life's too boring (for everyone) if you just wait for the camp to go away every time. To fit in with the 'cool kids' I should jump my Iteron in to the camp and either logoffski or crash the node I suppose... ----------
IBTL \o/ Fix the ******* map! No such thing as griefing in Eve |
Vizranuh
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Posted - 2007.02.18 01:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Vizranuh on 18/02/2007 01:10:24 I agree a bit, but not entirely.
I'm not going to use exploits to get what I want, but I'm going to employ whatever cheap tricks and tactics I can to reach an objective.
I wouldn't ever log out during a fight, but I think it was a waste for you to log back in and lose your implants. It was already done.
Honor in EVE? I think exploiters and cheaters are a bane on the game, but without using exploits I don't believe there is any dishonor in doing what needs to be done to kill someone.
It's all about profit for me.
Cheers --
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Shozo
Sanguinum Fratres
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Posted - 2007.02.18 15:15:00 -
[6]
Just the other day I jumped into a system and got caught in a dictor bubble. Logged off to save my ship that hadn't even seen combat yet. Waiting 5 minutes after debating about the moral decision and logged back in. Let my ship take the pounding and left in my pod. Later convo'd the pilot and got my expensive modules back for a small fee. Then was given an invite to a corp. after getting completely annihilated.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.18 15:28:00 -
[7]
I consider anything that is "abusing" game mechanics to avoid getting killed / gain an advantage in getting a kill exploiting however ccp and many other people seem to ignore this fact. There are other tactics such as 15v1 that I consider lame however it's completely within the game mechanics and honestly the people that are involved in the 15 man gank are hurting themselves as it's not nearly as fun.
I find nothing wrong with using heavy ewar to completely disable ships as it's strictly part of the game and intended to be used in such a way. Most experianced pvpers know what kind of fits and play style certain ships have so if they do not think that they will be able to win a head to head gank vrs tank, "he has the most sp wins" style fight then they won't engage in such a fight. They will use other tactics and means to gain the advanatage and get the kill.
My biggest personal frustration comes from those people who expect you to fight them even though both involved parties know the outcome before the fight even takes place. There is no honor in engaging in a fight in which you know you will die, that's called suicide and in most modern cultuers suicide is not "honorable". The so called "honor" for me comes from using my brain and getting a kill on a larger/better equpted force when they do not expect it.
Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got" |
petergriffen
Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.18 15:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe I consider anything that is "abusing" game mechanics to avoid getting killed / gain an advantage in getting a kill exploiting however ccp and many other people seem to ignore this fact. There are other tactics such as 15v1 that I consider lame however it's completely within the game mechanics and honestly the people that are involved in the 15 man gank are hurting themselves as it's not nearly as fun.
So would you agree that logging a fleet of in an enemy system, where you do not have a POS or a station (you're sitting at a safespot), waiting for the enemy to log in or one of their POS towers to come out of reinforced, is abuse of game mechanics? If you ask me that falls under 'gain an advantage in getting a kill'
This is a perfectly acceptable tactic and has been for a long time.
I'm working on it! |
McDan
Orbital Fleet
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Posted - 2007.02.18 15:57:00 -
[9]
Some people will willingly employ such tactics on a mass scale. Many, including myself, do not consider these people pvpers of any variety. They lack any form of intelligence so they use exploitative methods, taught to them, in order to gain the ultimate advantage.
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Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.18 16:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: petergriffen
So would you agree that logging a fleet of in an enemy system, where you do not have a POS or a station (you're sitting at a safespot), waiting for the enemy to log in or one of their POS towers to come out of reinforced, is abuse of game mechanics? If you ask me that falls under 'gain an advantage in getting a kill'
This is a perfectly acceptable tactic and has been for a long time.
What you speak of is known as Meta gaming. People wait idle out of game listening to team speak/vent for the order to all log back in and surprise thier enemy. Do I consider it exploiting a flaw in game mechanics? You bet your sweet ass I do however the problem comes in "proving" that the alleged party was in fact cheating and you can't do that when it comes to the whole "loggofski" problem. Now look at it from the point of view from the people getting jumped. They are unable to use any ingame mechanics that allow them to know that you have 200 ships logged out at that spot, they can't use their scanners, probes, scouts ect to figure out the location of the enemy fleet because at that time the enemy fleet magicly does not exist. This is the reason why such tactics are so common and so effective.
Now the real question is do I think that this specific scenario that you brought up to be punishable and I think the answer to that is nope, no way in hell. Games will always be games and there will always be ways to abuse mechanics revovling around logging in and out. Simply because this exploit (it is indeed and exploit) is not punishable does not make it any less of an exploit though. The solution to the problem rest in the hands of the community rather than the actual Dev team as it's communities job to not abuse such mechanics and play the game "fairly". The problem then comes with how competative this game is and some people feel that result justifies the means.
Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you****got" |
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.18 16:24:00 -
[11]
Honor in eve is something your more likely to find with small scale pvp, the low sec pirate for example they'll tend to have morals or limits to what they'll do for a kill. But when you play big corp/alliance pvp its a whole totally different ball game... some may claim they have honor all big alliances will use underhanded tactics near exploits and a few exploits themselves, its common in real life if you look at it as well, the person does or doesn't have honor but a large group don't care about honor its what ever is needed to get the job done.
And frankly when it comes to titan pilots if the pilot chose to be honorable and not log during a fight etc the corp would be in the right to kick his ass because a ship on that scale is not something that belongs to him but it is a shared asset so unless he had a quick whip round voting of everyone that was involved in its construction he can't make that decision alone.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.18 16:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Stuff
There is infact one simple solution that will occur over the next few years that deals with the log in/off problem, and thats true persistent worlds. Your player doesn't cease to be part of the world simply because you log off, it remains there in the game if you don't park it somewhere safe your still vunerable.
The main reason logofski is prevalent in eve is because CCP has chosen to make pilots disappear from the game world when they log, number of reasons behind that mainly because there'd be so much whining about lost ships you wouldn't be able to see anything else but whines on the forums for months secondly server load.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
DunNa
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Posted - 2007.02.18 16:35:00 -
[13]
I hate EVE pvp because of all the "cheap tricks" and the attitude of many who are involved in it (the pvp that is). Losing isn't an option its only win at all costs including alt spys. Then theres the entire setup of a battle, to actually get a "good" fight is impossible. It will always be you ganking or getting ganked, unless or course your in some sort of frigate dueling league but even then some guy will always show up and try to ruin it.
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Revan Crow
Minmatar KraehenKlaue
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Posted - 2007.02.18 16:37:00 -
[14]
example of honor ? here is one like it happend back in X7 and the great BoB vs ASCN Wars.
i fought a lone Vagabond from BoB, i lost my Caracal (lol ofcourse i lost) and while he/she locked my pod i was asked if i had any implants that i want to keep, i yeah'ed, was unlocked and left the scene with a gf and the tip not to use implanted clones for pvp.
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Twilight Moon
Minmatar Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2007.02.18 16:40:00 -
[15]
Honour....whats that then?
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Kavu
Genos Occidere Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.02.19 01:05:00 -
[16]
honor? there is no honor among thieves, yar!
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Hennry Fromer
Gallente radiated space gerbils
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Posted - 2007.02.19 11:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Revan Crow example of honor ? here is one like it happend back in X7 and the great BoB vs ASCN Wars.
i fought a lone Vagabond from BoB, i lost my Caracal (lol ofcourse i lost) and while he/she locked my pod i was asked if i had any implants that i want to keep, i yeah'ed, was unlocked and left the scene with a gf and the tip not to use implanted clones for pvp.
Nice to see a post about people like this rather than the how low can they go ethical-limbo contests we normally hear about here in the forums.
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Hennry Fromer
Gallente radiated space gerbils
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Posted - 2007.02.19 11:53:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Revan Crow example of honor ? here is one like it happend back in X7 and the great BoB vs ASCN Wars.
i fought a lone Vagabond from BoB, i lost my Caracal (lol ofcourse i lost) and while he/she locked my pod i was asked if i had any implants that i want to keep, i yeah'ed, was unlocked and left the scene with a gf and the tip not to use implanted clones for pvp.
Nice to see a post about people like this rather than the how low can they go ethical-limbo contests we normally hear about here in the forums.
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Hennry Fromer
Gallente radiated space gerbils
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Posted - 2007.02.19 11:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Revan Crow example of honor ? here is one like it happend back in X7 and the great BoB vs ASCN Wars.
i fought a lone Vagabond from BoB, i lost my Caracal (lol ofcourse i lost) and while he/she locked my pod i was asked if i had any implants that i want to keep, i yeah'ed, was unlocked and left the scene with a gf and the tip not to use implanted clones for pvp.
Nice to see a post about people like this rather than the how low can they go ethical-limbo contests we normally hear about here in the forums.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hennry Fromer how low can they go ethical-limbo contests
ROFL, so true -
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum (NOTE: ANUS RELATED ANTICS NO LONGER ALLOWED UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY, REALLY FUNNY OR DEPRAVED)
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:00:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hennry Fromer how low can they go ethical-limbo contests
ROFL, so true -
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum (NOTE: ANUS RELATED ANTICS NO LONGER ALLOWED UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY, REALLY FUNNY OR DEPRAVED)
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hennry Fromer how low can they go ethical-limbo contests
ROFL, so true -
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum (NOTE: ANUS RELATED ANTICS NO LONGER ALLOWED UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY, REALLY FUNNY OR DEPRAVED)
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:03:00 -
[23]
Honour and respect can be hard to classify for my self. After a long hard battle, win or lose it's nice to chat with the enemy if they aren't a complete asshat. But what you need to realise is that war is dirty, if someone is trying to kill you and take your land, you don't hold his hand and make daisy chain's. You do everything you can ( within game mechanic's and legal yada yada yada ) to make him bleed, kick him in the face, steal his wife and torch his dog.
There are time's when two virtual armie's may face off against each other and just fight for the fun of it but when land, or space (lol) become involved, it get's more personal and there is more to lose.
It doesn't matter how you achieve victory as long as you are the one standing on your opponent's throat while they are lying in the dirt, a bloody, battered pulp.
Win or lose, it's the fight's that matter |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:03:00 -
[24]
Honour and respect can be hard to classify for my self. After a long hard battle, win or lose it's nice to chat with the enemy if they aren't a complete asshat. But what you need to realise is that war is dirty, if someone is trying to kill you and take your land, you don't hold his hand and make daisy chain's. You do everything you can ( within game mechanic's and legal yada yada yada ) to make him bleed, kick him in the face, steal his wife and torch his dog.
There are time's when two virtual armie's may face off against each other and just fight for the fun of it but when land, or space (lol) become involved, it get's more personal and there is more to lose.
It doesn't matter how you achieve victory as long as you are the one standing on your opponent's throat while they are lying in the dirt, a bloody, battered pulp.
Win or lose, it's the fight's that matter |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:03:00 -
[25]
Honour and respect can be hard to classify for my self. After a long hard battle, win or lose it's nice to chat with the enemy if they aren't a complete asshat. But what you need to realise is that war is dirty, if someone is trying to kill you and take your land, you don't hold his hand and make daisy chain's. You do everything you can ( within game mechanic's and legal yada yada yada ) to make him bleed, kick him in the face, steal his wife and torch his dog.
There are time's when two virtual armie's may face off against each other and just fight for the fun of it but when land, or space (lol) become involved, it get's more personal and there is more to lose.
It doesn't matter how you achieve victory as long as you are the one standing on your opponent's throat while they are lying in the dirt, a bloody, battered pulp.
Win or lose, it's the fight's that matter |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:04:00 -
[26]
There is honor and respect in game.
Strangely my testimonial is also about a vagabond pilot. I was rating in my newly adquired first cruiser (quite some time ago now).. a rupture. Got a Faction Webfiers (the blood raiders one) and whiel going to a staion got jumepd by a vagabond and he fastly dispached me. He thanked for the GF in local. And after i arrived at the station he convoed-me and said that I coudl go back get my faction item, cause it would be an unecessarily blunt on a new character and I had been educated and not whined when i died.
Unfortunately for each good sportsman you always have 10 "I don't care for honor" guys .
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:04:00 -
[27]
There is honor and respect in game.
Strangely my testimonial is also about a vagabond pilot. I was rating in my newly adquired first cruiser (quite some time ago now).. a rupture. Got a Faction Webfiers (the blood raiders one) and whiel going to a staion got jumepd by a vagabond and he fastly dispached me. He thanked for the GF in local. And after i arrived at the station he convoed-me and said that I coudl go back get my faction item, cause it would be an unecessarily blunt on a new character and I had been educated and not whined when i died.
Unfortunately for each good sportsman you always have 10 "I don't care for honor" guys .
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:04:00 -
[28]
There is honor and respect in game.
Strangely my testimonial is also about a vagabond pilot. I was rating in my newly adquired first cruiser (quite some time ago now).. a rupture. Got a Faction Webfiers (the blood raiders one) and whiel going to a staion got jumepd by a vagabond and he fastly dispached me. He thanked for the GF in local. And after i arrived at the station he convoed-me and said that I coudl go back get my faction item, cause it would be an unecessarily blunt on a new character and I had been educated and not whined when i died.
Unfortunately for each good sportsman you always have 10 "I don't care for honor" guys .
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:59:00 -
[29]
people .. don't forget - honor != honor
don't apply real-world honor on a computer-game
you don't have to follow some medieval honor-codex, you don't have to follow the honor-codex of duelists from 19th century.
all you have to follow is the honor-codex of (computer-)gamers - don't cheat, play by the rules, accept to lose and don't play the game just for the win but for the interaction and socialization with others. ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Maza Nostra RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.19 12:59:00 -
[30]
people .. don't forget - honor != honor
don't apply real-world honor on a computer-game
you don't have to follow some medieval honor-codex, you don't have to follow the honor-codex of duelists from 19th century.
all you have to follow is the honor-codex of (computer-)gamers - don't cheat, play by the rules, accept to lose and don't play the game just for the win but for the interaction and socialization with others. ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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