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Reported for redundant

Also your reasons show a vast lack in understanding ewar

First binary is not bad you may think it is but that is opinion

Second any ecm pilot worth his salt has great control over the effectiveness of his jams. ECM is the most player interactive ewar in game abs has the most gameplay tied to it

Finally with damps you only think you can still lock but when my arazu has you damped down to 3km you're not locking my fleet built to kite

Lol "the other ones aren't like this so this one shouldn't be either"

The other ewar are are also just boring to use spread and activate or focus and activate there is little to no micro with them

And I have listed ways to give ecm a stacking penalty in a way that fits with its gameplay and builds on it in the past. Give ecm mods a remote eccm effect

There are only two issues with ECM right now

1 there is no stacking penalty

2 you can permanently jam ships with lower strength

ECM is controllable by the pilot

Ecm should be chance based (but is not always)

If you are useless just because you are jammed you're not trying hard enough

RNG is all over eve look at any turret based damage

ECM is frustrating but so are most things in eve

Now I'm beginning to wonder if you're a troll did you read what you said o.O

The first bullet point you listed in your last post was

"ECM is uncontrollable by pilot:fact"
Just to name a few

ECM is unconterable by piloting: Fact.

Lol was reading on a phone so I suppose I interpreted a real word in place of your fake one.

But still ecm can be countered effectively in sure you have to be able to think of a few ways hell they just buffed one

Not the word I was talking about but okay it can still be effectively countered by proper piloting

Well the simplest one is to pull range but the more effective one is built into the hulls of ecm ships. They ate caldari meaning they have the highest sig and lowest scan res in the game(ecm ships having an even greater penalty to scan res). What this means is you will most likely lock first making damps a very powerful counter to ecm. Another thing built into ecm is for it to be effective you need to use it on some of the softest ships in the game and give up even more tank in order to fit them. This means so long as one person in your fleet is not jammed they are quickly run off feild

The last option I gave involved getting a fleet mate in-jammed. But why should there always be a way out of a **** up.

How do I get out of a vindi web scram with your definition of piloting or a grappler +scram

How do I counter damps against a fleet built to use them properly

ECM should be changed to simply breaking target lock, but you are still allowed to lock again. Of course module and drone cycle times would have to be rebalanced.

Note: Make the default cycle times really long but bonus a cycle time reduction on specialty jammer ships.

There is a guaranty you will if the ecm is damped down or forced off feild

Edit or if the pilot was an idiot and warped away or flew out of range

The same way you're getting out of a vindi range

ECM should be changed to simply breaking target lock, but you are still allowed to lock again. Of course module and drone cycle times would have to be rebalanced.

Note: Make the default cycle times really long but bonus a cycle time reduction on specialty jammer ships.

So making its main purpose of countering lodi pointless and ensuring that they die within moments of landing on grid?

WE ARE NOT DISCUSSING FIXES TO ECM. That is not what this idea has anything to do with. I am merely educating Lugh Crow-Slave on EWAR because he doesn't have much PvP experience.

Well, they normally die really fast anyways unless you have your own logi.

Breaking target lock on logi even for a few seconds can make a difference when the miss that critical rep or two, and need to re-establish their cap chain more frequently.

I am going to thoroughly enjoy shutting you down with my extensive knowledge of EWAR and Eve's game mechanics.

I have two questions for you about your own skills and previous experience with ecm ewar?

1) did you level your sensor compensation skills to lvl 5?

2) have you ever flown a ship with ECCM or had remote ECCM added to you from another pilot in your gang to help deal with being jammed when in combat?

Except you don't jam the logi so it can't rep the fleet you jam it so it can't rep the rest of the logi otherwise you're better of with damps. And unless you have high alpha missing one cycle will not kill your sister logi

No it is not something you can counter through an Acton of your own but it is something countable by your fleet. Not everything needs to be countable directly by the person the Acton is being done to. And you are not getting out of a vindi web going sub 300 (generous) if he doesn't want you to

I have two questions for you about your own skills and previous experience with ecm ewar?

1) did you level your sensor compensation skills to lvl 5?

2) have you ever flown a ship with ECCM or had remote ECCM added to you from another pilot in your gang to help deal with being jammed when in combat?

No not every pilot flies in a fleet but if you are 1v1 against a ecm ship toy should be more than capable of taking its dps for the 20seconds. If it is not 1v1 then friends will always give you an advantage ecm or not

That's an issue with the drones not ecm and I'm 100%in agreement that those need to go

Not by your narrow definition but I don't belive everything should be able to be countered by a single person

That's your opinion. However, a widely held opinion is that ECM has no counter play by the individual piloting. Every other EWAR has it.

Other ewar also has a100% guaranty not everything needs to be the same. And ecm still does have counter play by single pilots you just have to perform it b4 getting jammed. Not to mention the other ewars just have the illusion of counter play. What's the counter play for tp anyway? Or td with td if you get close they just disrupt your tracking if you pull range they disrupt your range and they ate able to do this faster than you can pull range (assuming you are even in a ship capable of dictating the range)

Oh, and don't fly alone... Its a MMO where teamwork can really make a difference.

With a TD I can switch ammo types for longer range or better tracking ammo.

You still don't understand counterability through piloting. I can fit an sensor booster with an ECCM script, I can fit two, and I can train my comps to V, and get the navy implant set that boosts sensor strength. That isn't counterability through piloting because I can do all that prep, still get jammed, and I am still unable to counter being jammed. I can do comparable prep work for damps. At least with damps I have the option to burn in or wait until I lock. I can do the same prep work for TDs. I still have the option to swap ammo types. Once jammed nothing I can do will counter it.

It is an MMO. There is nothing more powerful than a friend. But you do the game a disservice by saying to the legions of solo PvPers that they should stop solo PvPing. Are you going to look at Mr. Hyde and say " don't fly alone... Its a MMO where teamwork can really make a difference."? Solo work is powerful, challenging, and the rewards are enormous. Not everything in Eve must be done in groups.

Being caught in situations where you are perfectly screwed because the other guy had the perfect counter to your fit is what Eve is about. Its called rock, scissors, paper gameplay.

Not every situation you find yourself can be overcome by piloting your ship. If you find yourself scrammed and damped from a Arazu you can't always burn in to regain target lock unless you chose to fit a AB instead of a MWD and he didn't fit a MWD. But if you fit a sebo and have a target range script, you might be able to change it to counter that damp.

Or if you find yourself jammed and you also fit a sebo, you can change out that range script and put in a ECCM script to raise your chance of not getting jammed the next cycle.

Eve at its core has been about rock, scissor, paper ship fitting from the beginning and EWAR has been part of that. Sometimes countered fits can be improved through piloting but not always.

For Fitting:
You can fit a Warp core stab or two to lessen your chance of being pointed. ( You gimp your targeting)
You can fit a tracking Computer or Enhancer to lessen the effects of tracking disrupters. (You chose to not fit some other mid slot mod)
You can fit ABs to lessen the effects of TPs. (You might have wished you fit MWD instead depending)
You can fit sebos to lessen the effects of Damps or now Jams. (also at expense of fitting a diff mod)


If you didn't fit right, you might be able to counter through Piloting, depending on opponents fit.
Burn out with AB/MWD to counter Scram/Disruptor. ( unless opponent fit equal prop mod )
Burn in to counter range Damps.
Burn out TP optimal with MWD to counter TPs.
Burn out of jam optimal to counter Jams.
Burn in to counter optimal range tracking disruptors.
Try to match target vector to lessen effects of tracking disruptors

You seem to want to be able to counter Jams within the first cycle you were jammed. You can't change the effect of any mod within its cycle, but you can pilot yourself into a better position within that cycle or the next, if your fit is right vs your opponents. (rock, scissor, paper gameplay)

You can pilot outside the optimal range of ECM and regain target lock, if you are faster than the ship Jamming you just like you can burn into a ship range Damping if you are faster than them considering all active mods being used by each party.

You are trying to make an edge case within a very limited scope to solely suit your purposes.

Drones are a natural counter to ecm. As the two gentlemen are constantly repeating, making the right move before you are jammed is the key.

I will take my Keres over my Kitsune (or my Lachesis over my Rook) 9 of 10 times. RNG is a pita... when you have little to no tank or dps.

Edit. Damps are Gallente. Are you going to nerf my ships strongest abilities for your 'missile tracking disruption bonus' foolery?

- 1 for ops attitude

yeah yeah so what if dampners and some of the others aren't binary, lets make ECM a , like the others instead of a chance 1 or 0

Your proposals shuffle the deck (out of sorts) and depend on introducing new modules and mechanics to compensate for Caldari losing a primary bonus. Missile damps for Gall, Drone disruptor for Caldari?
No please.

Simplify and deal with ecm (and this thread is now redundant) without fuzzling a solution.

Edit. Everyone with a sebo recently got a buff vs ecm.

You do realize that optimal on a max skilled Blackbird is 72KM with another 79KM in falloff? 72KM+79KM is not exactly "Burn out then back in" kind of range. Typically the kinds of ships than can hit from 72KM+79KM away are not exactly fast moving and quicker ships typically can't hit from that range. So no, you really can't "You can pilot outside the optimal range of ECM and regain target lock" and do damage before you get jammed again.

Here's the deal: Give good reasons, not opinions, as to why this idea won't work and I go back to the drawing board. It's been three pages and no one has done that.

Nice to see you changed the elements of the question after you got an answer that didn't fit your cherry picked edge case.

Your question was if you could pilot out of the effect of ECM as you can do with other EWAR, the answer is YES, even if your narrow test only considers close up fights it doesn't invalidate that fact.

You don't need to go full optimal + full fall off to significantly improve your chances of avoiding the Jams and plenty of ships can hit that far.

Fitting to counter being jammed is easy.

Trying to invalidate a mechanic where the player takes no precautions fitting his ship against that mechanic goes against the core of this game.


You can fit your ship to mitigate the effects of Jamming and you can fly your ship out of the effective range of jamming to have a better chance to maintain target lock and hit the target providing you are flying the right ship with the right fit.

Trying to say you must be able to do that in all ships ( or even most) and all fits (or even typical) is like saying you must be able to slow boat a Megathron to within blaster range of a Celestis who is damping you and slow boating away from you at max speed.


Edit: Or even with Mega and Celest fitting MWDs (or any other typical fit)

I never changed the elements to my question. My question is once jammed what can you do to become unjammed? Going beyond optimal range may reduce the probability of being jammed again, but it wouldn't do a single thing for this jam cycle.

Three pages and nobody yet sees the merits of your op. It isn't a personal attack, at least not until you make it one

Despite the players who feel ECM is the oddball out in the EWAR mechanics I feel that it is simply the opposite of Range Damps.

Range Damps can prevent you locking at extreme ranges and promotes close range combat.
ECM can prevent you from locking at close ranges and promotes long range combat.

I think the issue is that they overlap at mid ranges where with the combination of both you can prevent locking targets very effectively across a fleet.



A solution might be to create a sweet spot at mid ranges where neither Damps or Jams are very effective. If you kite too far out, you run the risk of being damped. If you come in too close you run the risk of being jammed, either of which risk can be mitigated through fitting.

So Jams are very good close up similar to Heavy Stasis Graplers and Damps are very good at extended ranges. But in the middle where both close range weapons and long range weapons are fairly effective neither Jams or Range Damps can affect you much.

So if you do want to close range brawl, you fit to prevent jamming. If you want to long range snipe you fit the prevent Damps, but if you just want to kite a bit you don't need to worry too much unless one of your targets are really far away and you get damped or a Jamming ship gets too close to you and you get Jammed.

The biggest issue with this besides the current optimal and fallout ranges of both Range Damps and Jams is the fact that Jammer ships tend to be weak tank wise. I would suggest that they get buffed to HAC level and with above changes they would only be great at Jamming if you don't fit to prevent it and they get very close to you.

Now the Sweet spot where neither Jamming or Range Damps work well should probably be balanced roughly around Medium Turrets in my opinion but that is wide open for suggestions.

Just remember for ECM the issue would be how close the Jammer is to you, for Range Damps its how close is the current primary is to you.

As a result of this Jamming can work to counter Logi if you Jamming ships get very close to part of the Logi Chain, but if Logi gets to far from each other they risk being Range Damped.

Just some ideas I came up with as a result of this thread.

It will if you get out of the jamming ships lock range. So it's what did you say? Not probable but it is possible

If you break lock of the ship targeting you the jam will drop the next tic. It's how you can get a fleet mate un-jammed using damps or ecm. That range check is irrelevant just like if you jam a target that has you tackled the tackle drops

The idea you proposed was removing ecm pretty sure that is what we were discussing