So I take it that those belittling my issue would have no concerns were CCP to implement a 500K recurring fee to logon to their account and access their assets? And better yet, if they do it without discussing or documenting it?

So I take it that no one would have an issue at all with such an implementation?

This is functionally equivalent to the per-use JC fee. I have a 1B+ asset per account that I cannot access without paying a fee. I cannot sell it and I now cannot access it without paying a fee. Same implementation as a per login fee, you login to gain access to your assets.

So I take it that those belittling my issue would have no concerns were CCP to implement a 500K recurring fee to logon to their account and access their assets? And better yet, if they do it without discussing or documenting it?

So I take it that no one would have an issue at all with such an implementation?

This is functionally equivalent to the per-use JC fee. I have a 1B+ asset per account that I cannot access without paying a fee. I cannot sell it and I now cannot access it without paying a fee. Same implementation as a per login fee, you login to gain access to your assets.

This is a fairly substantive rule change that has far-reaching consequences. The implementation was poorly communicated (or not communicated) and poorly conceived. Choosing to make this purely about how to raise ISK is pointless as this is not about making ISK. This is about CCP changing the rules without communication and it having a financial and play impact without any means for player recompense. Is this not wrong on CCP's part or are there more apologists for CCP?

So I take it that those belittling my issue would have no concerns were CCP to implement a 500K recurring fee to logon to their account and access their assets? And better yet, if they do it without discussing or documenting it?

So I take it that no one would have an issue at all with such an implementation?

This is functionally equivalent to the per-use JC fee. I have a 1B+ asset per account that I cannot access without paying a fee. I cannot sell it and I now cannot access it without paying a fee. Same implementation as a per login fee, you login to gain access to your assets.

-snip-

• Jump Clones: current price for installing jump clones in NPC stations is around 100,000 ISK. We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price. Jump Clones installed in Citadels will not have any NPC taxes, but the owner can charge his own pricing for the service. We also want to remove the maximum limit of jump clones for Citadels: like Citadel offices, your alliance, corporation or public customers will never be denied usage of this service if you grant them access in the first place.
-ship-

Please remember those are still work in progress changes (especially the market broker's fee tax amount), so please use constructive feedback in your replies.

Adapt or die, but crying with exaggerated figures just looks pathetic.

So this specific language is part of the issue:
Jump Clones: current price for installing jump clones in NPC stations is around 100,000 ISK. We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price.

This says that there will be a fee to INSTALL a clone at the station. The language does not say THERE WILL BE A NEW PER USE FEE FOR JCs. The language is far less than clear about it. An install fee is 1-time, once I have installed, there should be no additional fee if I leave a clone there. So literally the language says that I would pay to install once and then another 1 time install to leave a clone. The language is obtuse at best regarding additional fees and existing established clones. The context is also important when considering communications, previous implementations of this have always been 1-time and a change from 1-time to per-use, combined with a 9X price hike, it is far from clear exactly how this was going to be implemented.

Still amazed at the CCP apologists on this topic....

And your continuing to cherry pick numbers reflects poorly. I have stated 100M to 250M annual costs. And yes, there was a full year where I jumped nearly every single day with max skills.

And your continuing to cherry pick numbers reflects poorly. I have stated 100M to 250M annual costs. And yes, there was a full year where I jumped nearly every single day with max skills.

You jumped every single day with each of seven accounts for an entire year? How many people fall into that category, do you think? I imagine they might count in the dozens, maybe.

If you learned how to not get podded in HS, you wouldn't have to do this, and you would get faster training time, given you could stay in your +5s all the time.

It wasn't cherry picked. They are your numbers.

250 is the upper limit of the number you wrote. It's not believable and I would love to see a screenshot of your wallet on all 7 accounts since this change, showing the charge for jumping so frequently. I strongly doubt you are being honest here. You are exaggerating numbers to make a really quite poor point.

But if true, then put your money where your mouth is and post screenshots of you wallet journal showing even just the impact of this on you in the last week.

Across your accounts it should be somewhere between 12 million - 40 million.

And I never made any claims about others and their frequency of JC use, except to suppose that the richest players probably have multiple alts per account and will incur less JC use fees than single character accounts. Please state if you believe otherwise.

I would have NEVER purchased or researched into +5 implants if per use JC fees were on the table. Per use JC fees are a pretty big change.

I consider 1B a lot to lose. Never fly what you cannot afford to lose, and I would prefer not to lose 1B. Yes it is more than possible to avoid being podded in even 0.5 space, but it is also nearly impossible to avoid it if someone makes it a point to pod you.

But you did cherry pick, you only used the highest number that I gave without showing the lowest number or even indicate that I had listed a range, that is called cherry picking.

And since the change, I have not JC'd once. It is financially stupid to do so. To use a JC clone to gain SP is dumb now when there are extractors on the market. The only reason that this is so is due to the new per use JC fee. JCing into +5 sets is just too costly for the minimal return.

If CCP really believes that charging players to JC is a good idea (I do not), then they need to provide a mechanism for players to sell their existing JC implants vs making those implants far less useful.

And since the change, I have not JC'd once. It is financially stupid to do so. To use a JC clone to gain SP is dumb now when there are extractors on the market. The only reason that this is so is due to the new per use JC fee. JCing into +5 sets is just too costly for the minimal return.

Yes it does tell you, you just refuse to, or can't see it...


That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station

Which means every single time you jump.

You're lucky it got changed to 900k, it was going to be 5mil for every jump.

You sure about that?

You having +5s instead of +3s plugged-in 1/2 the time you're playing (assuming you JC daily, as you claim) gives you roughly 750k more skill points. That cost to you (using your own numbers) is 250k isk annually. You JC-ing to use your +5s is choosing to pay 250k isk for roughly 750k skillpoints more in a year.

Conversely, you buying a single skill injector is choosing to pay 620 million ISK for 300-400k more skill points.

Tell me again how skill injectors are more financially viable for you than paying JC fees? You already own the +5s. That's a sunk cost. From an accounting point of view, please treat it as such if you want us to take your numbers seriously.

And again the numbers that I am discussing is not K, but M. Quite a difference between thousand and millions.

And I am not going to be buying extractors as they are too expensive as well given that my income is fixed.

Gosh yall just cannot see the forest for the trees. This is bad for players. It devalues and restricts access to existing unsaleable resources. It financially penalizes players who wish to less than specialized, those with multiple single role alts are totally unaffected. How is doing this beneficial? Why are the apologizing for CCP's less than stellar language and choices in this area?

Gosh yall just cannot see the forest for the trees. This is bad for players. It devalues and restricts access to existing unsaleable resources. It financially penalizes players who wish to be less than specialized, those with multiple single role alts are totally unaffected. How is doing this beneficial? Why are the apologizing for CCP's less than stellar language and choices in this area?

We can see the forest for the trees just fine.

CCP wanted to provide some room for players to offer competitive services to other players and for that to happen, the cost of NPC jump clone services needed to rise.

That's the forest.

Your trees issue, the potential impact on you individually doesn't override what is good overall for CCPs strategy. By your own admission, it's had 0 ISK impact so far and since you claim to use all 7 accounts virtually daily (in order to be jumping so much) they can't all be pvping, so they must also be earning you ISK unless you are just sitting around socialising on 7 different characters.

So you've already offset the cost of this by whatever ISK you've earned and you have the same opportunity we all have to make the cost be exactly 0, by finding a 0 fee Citadel or building one yourself.

This new jump clone charge is ridiculous for new players. 900,000k every time I want to jump to my training clone is absolutely absurd. Why would you put a tax on jump clones that really only punishes new players? This amount is trivial to everyone except for new players, and you are just creating more barriers to entry for your game.

I cannot create threads in the new feature feedback area, and there is no thread for me to reply to on this issue.

a lot of BS

Those and for me this.

I'm having LK conversation flashbacks...

There, there.

I consider 1B a lot to lose. Never fly what you cannot afford to lose, and I would prefer not to lose 1B. Yes it is more than possible to avoid being podded in even 0.5 space, but it is also nearly impossible to avoid it if someone makes it a point to pod you.