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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
27
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Posted - 2011.12.19 21:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nightmare isn't actually all that bad vs guristas, by no means great, but better than a lot of other choices. if you only get the occasional guristas mission (like in amarr space) it is completely workable, especially since the 2 gurista missions you do get one is full of little crappy ships that get vaporized by any ship, and the other is the Assault which is easily blitzable in a nightmare. heck nightmare is probably one of the best ships for blitzing the assault, warp in and instapop the small stuff, and takes a little longer on the battleships but you do rather high base dps,no defenders, and less likely to get jammed than a marauder, but worse damage type. tengu/kronos/maybeCNR, are the ones I'd think would be better, don't remember if you have to kill the 2 elite frigs, I usually do because with guns it is very easy and they scramble.
the blitz on GE probably wouldn't be too painful, |
Munio J Makeanen
United Starbase Systems
0
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Posted - 2011.12.19 21:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:Still wanking yourself for a Nightmare?
Maelstrom 100mb/s drone bandwidth. 100m3 drone bay
Nightmare only 75 on both.
Go ahead and make your case. Nightmare is not good enough.
Maelstrom has EMP ammo... just dandy against Bloods and Sanshas.
Projective turrets have tracking bonused ammo on top of that.
What's up with the tracking bonus of Nightmare already?
ok. Nightmare will beat Nightmare against these exact two rat type. Then what? You're stuck there.
OK usually I do not include my self in this type of debates but by coincident we did a test yesterday. Guy wanted to test out his Varg Kit on Mael hull before going in with Hull he never flew.
So we had a Nightmare and a Maestrom in mission. Auto cannon pretty much same level of Faction stuff almost identical XL cap boosted fit with tracking comps faction gyros and all that bling.
Enemies were actually Gallente Navy so not optimal for Nightmare but Phased plasma ammo [faction I might add].
I have less SP then the guy in gunnery and not perfect nightmare and stil l was beating him by about 30 % or bi less lets call it 20% on killing same exact name of Bships and cruisers.
For Drones, Bloods, Sansha, Gal navy and that means Serps as well, Nightmare will kick the teeth out of a Maelstrom in all but tank but it can tank more then enough for lvl 4s.
For Guristas Mordus and similar it is competitive and for Angels Maelstrom will beat it.
Make you own conclusions Did several mission was not even competition when nightmare was killing bloods or Sansha.
so to conclude 3 main points
1 Don't bother with Mael against Nightmare comparisons
2 Vargur should be the ship to compare a Nightmare agains
3 Fall off is NOT optimal :)
Thanks for attention
TLDR
Nightmare is better then Maelstrom
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Sven Galli
Drama Inc.
2
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Posted - 2011.12.19 23:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fix My Lasers wrote:Mike712 wrote:Fix My Lasers wrote:Alias222 wrote:is the nightmare any good for guristas rats ?, say null sec sanctums, plexs or is it no good ? It is a nightmare for a Nightmare to kill guristas. They have a very high EM resist. Takes ages to kill them. A good nightmare will of course use tachs which means multifrequency crystals at almost all typical engagement ranges. Multifrequency does almost a good chunk of it's damage as thermal at a ratio of 23 thermal to 32 EM damage, combine that with the epic raw damage and alpha of the nightmare and it's actually pretty damn efficient at dispatching guristas NPCs(even compared to a well fit CNR/Golem/Kronos). The only faction where the nightmare struggles is angels as they are highly resistant to both EM and thermal. For anything weak to both EM and thermal nothing competes with a nightmare for raw killing speed, not even a machariel and definitely not a mealstrom. A tach nightmare does near enough 1000 DPS with more than sufficient tracking to get excelent hit quality at ranges out to 50km, whereas by that range any autocannon ship is fighting in very deep falloff and loosing a good % of it's DPS. I won't be complaining, but Math better explains how things are. Since I have almost every PvE ship with perfect skills I will be judging by my stats. All are fitted with faction stuff and implants. T1 Ammo to compare. Vargur: ~960 (956) DPS with Phased Plasma, 5 + 73 km. ACs Golem: ~1030 (1026) with Juggernaut Torpedo, ~47 km. Siege Launcher Kronos: ~810 (813) with Antimatter, 49 + 51 km. Rails Nightmare: ~940 (935) with Mulifreq., 49 + 50 km. Tachs Now percentages of damage type: Vargur: TH: 85%, KIN: 15% Golem: 100% KIN, obviously. Kronos: TH: 40%, KIN: 60% Nightmare: TH: 40%, EM: 60% Average guristas BS resists on the shield and armor are: EM: 70% EXP: 60% KIN: 40% TH: 50% So the math of DPS vs Resists is: Vargur: 494 Golem: 618 Kronos: 453 Nightmare: 357 So my conclusion that Nightmare is not even close to Golem or Vargur, and ~100 DPS less then Kronos. Not really efficient against guristas at all.
Maybe I'm just not seeing it and i'm not sure what Guristas orbit at, but all i'm seeing here is eft numbers with out taking into account dps lost due to being outside of optimal.
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Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.19 23:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Yeh at 50km isn't the Vargur down from around 950 dps down to a mere 650 or so before resists? Nightmare keeps on hitting hard through brute force :)
Sure there are places where the Vargur will beat the Nightmare, but its swings and roundabouts.
As for the Mael? It is massively lacking in range on autocannons when compared to a Nightmare - so what if it tanks better. Anyone who has flown a Nightmare in missions knows full well it tanks enough and kills things quick enough to reduce dps to a non-problematic level. Change the Mael to arty and it still has less range and puts out less dps. |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2011.12.20 05:27:00 -
[35] - Quote
Still. At 50km Vargur will be doing the same DPS to guristas as Nightmare.
But mostly they orbit at 31km, which gives Vargur around ~780DPS.
So as I said, Nightmare is the worst choice.
edit: And about range and DPS lost:
This is what you choose, to shoot at 100km or at 20. It doesn't concern calculations.
Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals!
http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html
http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html |
ShadowFire15
BOAE INC
GIANTSBANE.
46
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Posted - 2011.12.20 06:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Alias222 wrote:is the nightmare any good for guristas rats ? No.
i beg to differ. of course tanking sanctums by yourself may be a problem. not sure but the damage is still pretty good.
Stan Smith
had a snow storm over weekend guy was shoveling snow outside, so i shot him and mined the snow myself. concord never showed up. on an unrelated note, i have a court date next tuesday |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
1472
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Posted - 2011.12.20 09:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
ShadowFire15 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Alias222 wrote:is the nightmare any good for guristas rats ? No. i beg to differ. of course tanking sanctums by yourself may be a problem. not sure but the damage is still pretty good.
It gets the job done, but if you're mainly going to be shooting Guristas then you're not playing to its strengths. I'd certainly choose a CNR over a Nightmare for Guristas killing. (I can't fly Marauders but a Golem would probably be extremely good also)
For agents which have a predominance of Sansha/Blood rats and resist-neutral rats like Mercs, the Nightmare is a murderboat. A 3-4 slot T2 tank is enough. One thing many people neglect to include is a good afterburner, which I would unhesitatingly recommend for a PvE Nightmare.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.12.20 13:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Fix My Lasers wrote:
Even with 750 DPS Vargur or Mael will outdamage Nightmare.
Just a sad fact.
Why insist on shooting lasers at Em/Thermal resistant rats? When I go out for a run, I have a choice between wearing Stilettos and Running shoes. Should I get to complain to the shoe store when I break my ankle running a marathon in stilettos?
Anyway it's cheating to bring an inty to a marathon. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
142
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Posted - 2011.12.20 23:30:00 -
[39] - Quote
ShadowFire15 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Alias222 wrote:is the nightmare any good for guristas rats ? No. i beg to differ. of course tanking sanctums by yourself may be a problem. not sure but the damage is still pretty good.
If you're going to drop 1.5 bil on a ship/fittings specifically to kill Guristas, a Nightmare is very low on the list of ships you'd choose. Off the top of my head and in no particular order, I'd rather have a Tengu, CNR, Golem, Machariel, Vargur, Rattlesnake, Nighthawk, Kronos, and perhaps either a Maelstrom or Navy Dominix.
I love my Nightmare. But I know full well there are better options for killing Guristas. |
Mike712
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.12.20 23:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:ShadowFire15 wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Alias222 wrote:is the nightmare any good for guristas rats ? No. i beg to differ. of course tanking sanctums by yourself may be a problem. not sure but the damage is still pretty good. It gets the job done, but if you're mainly going to be shooting Guristas then you're not playing to its strengths. I'd certainly choose a CNR over a Nightmare for Guristas killing. (I can't fly Marauders but a Golem would probably be extremely good also) For agents which have a predominance of Sansha/Blood rats and resist-neutral rats like Mercs, the Nightmare is a murderboat. A 3-4 slot T2 tank is enough. One thing many people neglect to include is a good afterburner, which I would unhesitatingly recommend for a PvE Nightmare.
Nope golem is terrible for guristas, it gets perma jammed even with ECCM fitted(which means 1 less target painter).
Sat in assault lv4 jammed for 20 mins, came back in CNR and finished mission, never used a marauder for guristas again, seriously you'll discover rats which you never previously knew had ECM flying a marauder lol.
Back to the nightmare, no it would not be my first choice for guristas, but it works better than any marauder because it won't get perma jammed and is not that far behind a CNR/tengu, because guristas EM resist IS NOT THAT HIGH, their highest resist is EXP.
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Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.21 13:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Have they changed how ECM works on Guristas then? I'm sure it used to be completely random chance - whether you had ecm mods fitted or not?
*probably wrongly informed here* |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed
RED.Legion
178
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Posted - 2011.12.21 15:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Have they changed how ECM works on Guristas then? I'm sure it used to be completely random chance - whether you had ecm mods fitted or not?
*probably wrongly informed here*
NPC Jamming now works similarly to Player Jamming. Sensor strength matters. |
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