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Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:16:00 - [1] First of all, I'm writing this NOT as a member of the Ushra'Khan alliance, this is my personal point of view. We are all aware, I suppose, that there will be a war between the four big nations of this galaxy. One the side of light there will be a glorious alliance of the Gallente Federation and a reformed Minmatar Republic under a new leader (Midular, the notorious traitor, is counting her days) while on the side of horror and darkness there will be the Caldari State and the evil Amarr Empire. Of course the light will prevail, there can be no doubt. But, given the racist, aggressive and pure evil quintessence of Amarr existence, how can we make sure that no one will ever suffer again under their rule as soon as they are defeated? Right... we need a plan. And here I propose the following steps must be taken to remove the threat of being enslaved, tortured and oppressed by the worst scum of the galaxy: 1. Split the Amarr empire into two zones, one under the control of the Gallente Federation, one under the control of the reformed Minmatar Republic 2. Destroy or remove all industrial and military installations in former Amarr space 3. Make sure that every Amarr still alive understands that they will never be allowed to do industry, science or space travel again and that attempts to gather skills and / or technology will be punished as harshely as possible 4. Agriculture must be the only sector of economy native Amarr are allowed to pursue 5. All Amarr of good will must be integrated into the other empires and spread out as much as possible 6. All Amarr who have special training and / or skills but who are still loyal to the "Empire" or the "Emperor" or the Amarr religion must be neutralized to reduce the possibility of a technologically powered uprising 7. Teaching skills not necessary for agricultural work to a native Amarr must be forbidden, this includes reading and writing. No one needs to be able to read to seed plants or shepherd animals. 8. Of course Khanid and Ammatar will be considered native Amarr as well and they get no special treatment. In fact the Ammatar should be treated worse for being traitors.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:32:00 - [2] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/02/2007 10:34:17 You forgot the last step: 9. Doc Entropy wakes up from his dream. Meanwhile, this is the part that made me laugh the most: Quote: But, given the racist, aggressive and pure evil quintessence of Amarr existence I don't think that I've ever seen a comment more loaded with racial prejudice. Aah, the irony of describing an entire race as racist. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:37:00 - [3] You claim to be good and that is what you plan? Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Rodj Blake You forgot the last step: 9. Doc Entropy wakes up from his dream. I will remind you of your words when you stand trial for being a loyalist when your Empire of Scum will be defeated.
Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:37:00 - [5] Right, so your saying "IF" you won, you would then go on to make yourselves (policy wise) into exactly the same thing you are fighting. A dominating, dictating overbearing force telling everyday people that they can't do this and can't do that. What about the vast population of people who live in Ammar space who donÆt care about all the troubles and just want to get on with there lives? YouÆre going to cause more trouble in the long run with a policy like this. Oh, and by the way, I believe that the Caldari would be neutral in such a conflict (Bad for business). Better to sell to all parties involved.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :(
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( On the contrary, the Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II were both more than willing to talk and negotiate with the lesser races. Your comments merely serve to prove the assertion that those claiming to fight for freedom are the aggressive barbarians. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Hooch Flux Right, so your saying "IF" you won, you would then go on to make yourselves (policy wise) into exactly the same thing you are fighting. A dominating, dictating overbearing force telling everyday people that they can't do this and can't do that. What about the vast population of people who live in Ammar space who donÆt care about all the troubles and just want to get on with there lives? YouÆre going to cause more trouble in the long run with a policy like this. Oh, and by the way, I believe that the Caldari would be neutral in such a conflict (Bad for business). Better to sell to all parties involved. First of all, every non - loyalist Amarr will be free to go (I also wrote that) and join another empire, including the Caldari State, of course. Then I doubt that there are a lot of non - loyalists. Some are, of course, and I admire them. But most Amarr follow their obscure cults and their pathetic "Emperor". And, believe me, being able to fully abandon agriculture in the Gallente Federation and the reformed Minmatar Republic would make us very good customers to the Caldari corporations. Since the Caldari are not evil per se but rather misleaded by capitalist / monetarist ideals I see a bright future for this galaxy, a galaxy under the peaceful rule of three glorious empires.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( On the contrary, the Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II were both more than willing to talk and negotiate with the lesser races. Your comments merely serve to prove the assertion that those claiming to fight for freedom are the aggressive barbarians. The evil Amarr Empire must release all slaves immediately or STFU, Amarr. Anything less is not acceptable.

Octavinus Augustus	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:45:00 - [11] Imagine for a second that Amarr will prevail in such a war as described (which we certainly will). Then Imagine that we impose the same conditions on the Minmatar and Gallente as is here suggested that should be imposed on us. The Gallente and Minmatar would then cry "bloody slavery" for another millenium. It is obvious that if Amarr impose such conditions on others we are evil, but if the conditions are imposed by the U'K terrorists upon their enemies it is quite ok. Do not worry. Amarr will prevail and the conditions imposed upon our enemies will be strict, just and fair.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising. Technology is easy to gain, if it wasn't then both the Gallente and Minmatar would be nothing more then pitiful men living in caves. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising. Technology is easy to gain, if it wasn't then both the Gallente and Minmatar would be nothing more then pitiful men living in caves. Not if permanent active repression, braindrain and the permanent need to fight for pure survival are imposed on them.
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:53:00 - [15] Doc Extropy, I do not agree with your plan. Though the intellectual exercise of considering 'what we do with the amarr when they fall' is, perhaps one we should start considering. However, I don't think I'll start telling the world my thoughts until we are closer to the goal. Outface the depths of evil with clarity
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( On the contrary, the Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II were both more than willing to talk and negotiate with the lesser races. Your comments merely serve to prove the assertion that those claiming to fight for freedom are the aggressive barbarians. The evil Amarr Empire must release all slaves immediately or STFU, Amarr. Anything less is not acceptable. Or how about we keep our slaves and carry on criticising your insane schemes? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising. Technology is easy to gain, if it wasn't then both the Gallente and Minmatar would be nothing more then pitiful men living in caves. Not if permanent active repression, braindrain and the permanent need to fight for pure survival are imposed on them. Then you will only be creating a greater evil. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
T Dave Gallente The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.22 11:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth On the contrary, history doesn't 'show' this at all, as it has never been done (to my knowledge) on the scale you are plotting. It 'shows' this no more than the Amarr Empire has 'shown' that slavery is the only way to convert the unfaithful to the 'light'. By the same token, what you speak is simply not the truth. Originally by: Doc Extropy First of all, every non - loyalist Amarr will be free to go (I also wrote that) and join another empire, including the Caldari State, of course. So all it takes is for someone to claim they are non-loyalist / have no loyalist ties and you will let them leave to join your ranks as a level-pegging citizen? Very amicable of you considering what you plan to do to their close friends, relatives, contacts, associates, homes. Quite simply, your plan will never be truly effective. All you will achieve is a heightened state of fear - for yourself - spending every moment of every day questioning all those Amarr you let slip through the net, or wondering if any managed to flee and jump your gate camps as your hordes initially rushed in to achieve your goals. Always looking over your shoulder, never quite sure where the next enemy is. That's a position I certainly would not envy. And, I will happily admit, should such a scenario arise, you would also have to be on the lookout for Intakis such as this one who would be just as happy to jab the knife in. Personally I have little care or time anymore for these imperial thoughts being banded about on all sides of every argument and await the day when all sides can truly consider themselves enlightened - the day when everybody hears and is able to listen to the inner voice of reason and logic we all share, a universe without borders, without disputes, and without loudmouth, ill-thought-out plans such as yours. I can appreciate you have not written this as an official Ushra'Khan spokesperson as I have always held them in high regard. Such hate-filled plans as this do nothing to ease tensions. I believe the executive term for plans such as this is 'back to the drawing board'. Respectfully, TD About TGRAD
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 11:19:00 - [19] You really are nothing more than an undisciplined bunch of crude peons after all. Keep enjoying your drugs, 'Doc'. ----------------------------------------------
Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 11:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Doc Extropy First of all, every non - loyalist Amarr will be free to go (I also wrote that) and join another empire, including the Caldari State, of course. Why should they join another Empire, the Non-Loyalists should be the ones to help rebuild the Ammar Empire, just because they are not loyal doesn't mean that they want to see the Death of their homeland, they just want to effect change. Originally by: Doc Extropy Then I doubt that there are a lot of non - loyalists. Some are, of course, and I admire them. But most Amarr follow their obscure cults and their pathetic "Emperor". Planet side, there are Trillions of people (Sorry if that is an inaccurate statement, donÆt have a copy of the Ammar census) that live there lives normally, yes, they may subscribe to their religion. But religion is not evil, just the interpretation! Originally by: Doc Extropy And, believe me, being able to fully abandon agriculture in the Gallente Federation and the reformed Minmatar Republic would make us very good customers to the Caldari corporations. So you are going to enforce what people can do with their lives, wouldn't that make you just as bad as the people who you just defeated? Just to clarify my actual statement, If there was a war I donÆt believe the Caldari State would support either side militarily as its bad for business, better to sell to all sides and take a neutral stand. Originally by: Doc Extropy Since the Caldari are not evil per se but rather mislead by capitalist / monetarist ideals I see a bright future for this galaxy, a galaxy under the peaceful rule of three glorious empires. Nobody is inherently evil, even the Ammar. They may do things that are distasteful and reprehensible to most of us, but it is more a matter of culture and relative. Their are things we all do that someone may consider evil. DonÆt be so small minded or you'll end up like the people you are fighting

Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 12:06:00 - [21] And by the way, I am in no way an Ammar (or anyone else for that matter) apologist. I just see the reality of the situation. If you crush the Ammar in the way you proscribe you will have another situation like the Minmatar, they were kept down for generations yet they still kept that spark of freedom, do you really believe that eventually the Ammar will not rise again. It is far better to effect change and let the Ammar come about there own way.
Vii Leosude Minmatar 77th Wing-Red Death	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:01:00 - [22] This "plan" seems to go against everything Ive heard Ushra'Khan stands for. How could you possibly call yourself a freedom fighter when you are clearly planning on subjugating a people?
Vicarrah Minmatar Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:01:00 - [23] Edited by: Vicarrah on 22/02/2007 12:59:04 I find it most distressing that I agree with the amarrian posters here, rather than someone who claims to be on the side of light. What you propose is slavery in another form, an idealogical and phsyical slavery imposed because you fear that amarrians cannot change. Change has its own inertia, and you either find the tipping point, or use overwhelming force. humanity and post-humanity as a whole needs to evolve itself out of this chest-beating neanderthalism, force is not the answer. I sincerely hope that this is the ravings of a fool caught in a moral time-slip. If this not the case, and the majority of Matari feel this way, then I fear we have already lost. Vicarrah Tahiri Warrior
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa Ka Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Vii Leosude This "plan" seems to go against everything Ive heard Ushra'Khan stands for. Many of the personal comments from the Ushra'Khan camp seem to go against everything Ushra'Khan stands for, or once stood for. By living outside our tribal lands I feel that many of it's pilots have lost touch with the Matari culture and lifestyle. Still, while there are many strong minded Matari amongst it's ranks, there is still hope. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:24:00 - [25] I do not agree with you brother. I would happily kill on the spot every single person that tries to enslave another. Taking that thought further, compromising the freedom of another person would then dictate that I commit suicide. Please reconsider. Ushra'Khan is about freedom. The only thing I would wish after winning a war against the Amarr would be for slavery in any form to be universally outlawed throughout the Galaxy.
Amalas Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:45:00 - [26] Doc Extropy, While I respect your freedom to speak your mind I do not respect your views. We must never lower ourselves to that level, to do so leaves us no better than the Amarr that enslave so many of our people. I can only hope your comments were a joke, made to bait the Amarr loyalists.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.22 14:04:00 - [27] I find it slightly amusing that when an U'K member talks about killing the Amarr, several U'K members step up in protest, but when an U'K executor declares a Matari leader as the alliance's number one enemy, there is no protest but only vague excuses of it being a "just a symbolic gesture". That said, plans like this are premature, and saying there is "no doubt" of the outcome of a war - any war, let alone one of this scale - is arrogance to the verge of insanity. Someone with that level of grasp of realities is certainly not the one to lay out plans about what to do with the survivors of a war. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now.
Amalas Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 14:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon I find it slightly amusing that when an U'K member talks about killing the Amarr, several U'K members step up in protest No UshraÆKhan member said anything of the sort. We only stated that we were against treating the Amarr in a way similar to how they treat many of our people.
Rabbitual Ferrier	Posted - 2007.02.22 15:31:00 - [29] Edited by: Rabbitual Ferrier on 22/02/2007 15:41:59 alt default!
Lux Simian	Posted - 2007.02.22 15:46:00 - [30] The Ammar are not scum, whilst I do not agree with them, or their actions, I would not presume to dictate how they live their lives. War may yet be avoided, and neither you nor I speak either for the Federation, nor our respective groups. The Minmitar may have reason to hate the Ammar and Ammatar, but the Federation does not. In defeating ones enemys it is essential to ensure that we would not become them. You have allowed yourself and your decisions to be affected by your emotions, rather than your rational self. That is why the Federation has laws and procedures regarding Warfare. 1 - And how long before the Federation would be called upon to intervine in the Minmitar occupied Territory to protect the Ammar and Ammatar supported races? How could the Federation occupy Ammarians socially and condem them for their pervious occupations and enslavement. 2 - The Industry and Military of Ammar would likewise be required in order to protect themselves and supply themselves. The Universe is a hostile place, and how could they protect themselves against vendetta from Minmitar familys or from Piracy such as the Blood Raiders? 3 - We do not indoctrinate others, nor do we endorse slavery. We could not in all conscince do this unto others, and remain in a position of moral standing. 4 - The Federation does not endorse the restiction of a society under the command of others. Limiting the Ammar to aggriculture would be impossible, given their dependency of Slave Labour, they would face fammine unprecidented in history. 5 & 6 - The Ammar must not be treated any differently than any other race. Those who have crimes to answer for, will answer for them where applicable, and in due jurisdance of existing laws, before tribunial with transparancy. No action must be pursued on racial or nationalist agendas. 7 - Have you no compassion, how many of the Ammar or Ammatar would you punish before you fulfill your own desire for revenge? Can you not see that even among the Amarr there are victims, they may be oppressors but be asured they are themselves oppressed. Their chains are not physical but emotional and mental. 8 - Traitors? There are no traitors to us, we are Gallente. Treat them worse? In whos name, the peoples? the Federation? Would you submit to evil, to stop evil? In all things measure, your plan would condem us to become Slave Makers and Oppressors, in the name of a cause you have borrowed. I have fought among the Matari, and defended Minmitar space, but I do not do so out of hate, but through compassion for the Plight of the Minmitar. If war comes like you say, and we prevail absolutely, then difficult decisions will need to be made. But we must not condem entire people in poverty, slavery and famine just because they have done so to others. Justice brother, not vengence. Peace Be Lux Simian



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