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Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:16:00 - [1] First of all, I'm writing this NOT as a member of the Ushra'Khan alliance, this is my personal point of view. We are all aware, I suppose, that there will be a war between the four big nations of this galaxy. One the side of light there will be a glorious alliance of the Gallente Federation and a reformed Minmatar Republic under a new leader (Midular, the notorious traitor, is counting her days) while on the side of horror and darkness there will be the Caldari State and the evil Amarr Empire. Of course the light will prevail, there can be no doubt. But, given the racist, aggressive and pure evil quintessence of Amarr existence, how can we make sure that no one will ever suffer again under their rule as soon as they are defeated? Right... we need a plan. And here I propose the following steps must be taken to remove the threat of being enslaved, tortured and oppressed by the worst scum of the galaxy: 1. Split the Amarr empire into two zones, one under the control of the Gallente Federation, one under the control of the reformed Minmatar Republic 2. Destroy or remove all industrial and military installations in former Amarr space 3. Make sure that every Amarr still alive understands that they will never be allowed to do industry, science or space travel again and that attempts to gather skills and / or technology will be punished as harshely as possible 4. Agriculture must be the only sector of economy native Amarr are allowed to pursue 5. All Amarr of good will must be integrated into the other empires and spread out as much as possible 6. All Amarr who have special training and / or skills but who are still loyal to the "Empire" or the "Emperor" or the Amarr religion must be neutralized to reduce the possibility of a technologically powered uprising 7. Teaching skills not necessary for agricultural work to a native Amarr must be forbidden, this includes reading and writing. No one needs to be able to read to seed plants or shepherd animals. 8. Of course Khanid and Ammatar will be considered native Amarr as well and they get no special treatment. In fact the Ammatar should be treated worse for being traitors.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:32:00 - [2] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/02/2007 10:34:17 You forgot the last step: 9. Doc Entropy wakes up from his dream. Meanwhile, this is the part that made me laugh the most: Quote: But, given the racist, aggressive and pure evil quintessence of Amarr existence I don't think that I've ever seen a comment more loaded with racial prejudice. Aah, the irony of describing an entire race as racist. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:37:00 - [3] You claim to be good and that is what you plan? Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:37:00 - [4] Originally by: Rodj Blake You forgot the last step: 9. Doc Entropy wakes up from his dream. I will remind you of your words when you stand trial for being a loyalist when your Empire of Scum will be defeated.
Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:37:00 - [5] Right, so your saying "IF" you won, you would then go on to make yourselves (policy wise) into exactly the same thing you are fighting. A dominating, dictating overbearing force telling everyday people that they can't do this and can't do that. What about the vast population of people who live in Ammar space who donÆt care about all the troubles and just want to get on with there lives? YouÆre going to cause more trouble in the long run with a policy like this. Oh, and by the way, I believe that the Caldari would be neutral in such a conflict (Bad for business). Better to sell to all parties involved.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :(
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( On the contrary, the Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II were both more than willing to talk and negotiate with the lesser races. Your comments merely serve to prove the assertion that those claiming to fight for freedom are the aggressive barbarians. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Hooch Flux Right, so your saying "IF" you won, you would then go on to make yourselves (policy wise) into exactly the same thing you are fighting. A dominating, dictating overbearing force telling everyday people that they can't do this and can't do that. What about the vast population of people who live in Ammar space who donÆt care about all the troubles and just want to get on with there lives? YouÆre going to cause more trouble in the long run with a policy like this. Oh, and by the way, I believe that the Caldari would be neutral in such a conflict (Bad for business). Better to sell to all parties involved. First of all, every non - loyalist Amarr will be free to go (I also wrote that) and join another empire, including the Caldari State, of course. Then I doubt that there are a lot of non - loyalists. Some are, of course, and I admire them. But most Amarr follow their obscure cults and their pathetic "Emperor". And, believe me, being able to fully abandon agriculture in the Gallente Federation and the reformed Minmatar Republic would make us very good customers to the Caldari corporations. Since the Caldari are not evil per se but rather misleaded by capitalist / monetarist ideals I see a bright future for this galaxy, a galaxy under the peaceful rule of three glorious empires.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:44:00 - [10] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( On the contrary, the Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II were both more than willing to talk and negotiate with the lesser races. Your comments merely serve to prove the assertion that those claiming to fight for freedom are the aggressive barbarians. The evil Amarr Empire must release all slaves immediately or STFU, Amarr. Anything less is not acceptable.

Octavinus Augustus	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:45:00 - [11] Imagine for a second that Amarr will prevail in such a war as described (which we certainly will). Then Imagine that we impose the same conditions on the Minmatar and Gallente as is here suggested that should be imposed on us. The Gallente and Minmatar would then cry "bloody slavery" for another millenium. It is obvious that if Amarr impose such conditions on others we are evil, but if the conditions are imposed by the U'K terrorists upon their enemies it is quite ok. Do not worry. Amarr will prevail and the conditions imposed upon our enemies will be strict, just and fair.
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:48:00 - [13] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising. Technology is easy to gain, if it wasn't then both the Gallente and Minmatar would be nothing more then pitiful men living in caves. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising. Technology is easy to gain, if it wasn't then both the Gallente and Minmatar would be nothing more then pitiful men living in caves. Not if permanent active repression, braindrain and the permanent need to fight for pure survival are imposed on them.
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:53:00 - [15] Doc Extropy, I do not agree with your plan. Though the intellectual exercise of considering 'what we do with the amarr when they fall' is, perhaps one we should start considering. However, I don't think I'll start telling the world my thoughts until we are closer to the goal. Outface the depths of evil with clarity
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( On the contrary, the Emperors Heideran VII and Doriam II were both more than willing to talk and negotiate with the lesser races. Your comments merely serve to prove the assertion that those claiming to fight for freedom are the aggressive barbarians. The evil Amarr Empire must release all slaves immediately or STFU, Amarr. Anything less is not acceptable. Or how about we keep our slaves and carry on criticising your insane schemes? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Irias Salo Caldari The Star Wolves	Posted - 2007.02.22 10:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Irias Salo You claim to be good and that is what you plan? This is a proposal to remove evil from our galaxy. History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth. :( This policy is just as evil, and its affects will cause even more death in the future as this oppression will cause the Amarr to gain their 'freedom'. Further bloodshed will be effectively prevented by not allowing future Amarr generations to gather technology. Maybe they can throw stones at our orbital bombers in the case of an uprising. Technology is easy to gain, if it wasn't then both the Gallente and Minmatar would be nothing more then pitiful men living in caves. Not if permanent active repression, braindrain and the permanent need to fight for pure survival are imposed on them. Then you will only be creating a greater evil. Originally by: Ginger. There is no roleplay, there is only EVE
T Dave Gallente The Graduates Ivy League	Posted - 2007.02.22 11:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Doc Extropy History shows that the Amarr can't be dealt in any other way with. This is sad, but the truth On the contrary, history doesn't 'show' this at all, as it has never been done (to my knowledge) on the scale you are plotting. It 'shows' this no more than the Amarr Empire has 'shown' that slavery is the only way to convert the unfaithful to the 'light'. By the same token, what you speak is simply not the truth. Originally by: Doc Extropy First of all, every non - loyalist Amarr will be free to go (I also wrote that) and join another empire, including the Caldari State, of course. So all it takes is for someone to claim they are non-loyalist / have no loyalist ties and you will let them leave to join your ranks as a level-pegging citizen? Very amicable of you considering what you plan to do to their close friends, relatives, contacts, associates, homes. Quite simply, your plan will never be truly effective. All you will achieve is a heightened state of fear - for yourself - spending every moment of every day questioning all those Amarr you let slip through the net, or wondering if any managed to flee and jump your gate camps as your hordes initially rushed in to achieve your goals. Always looking over your shoulder, never quite sure where the next enemy is. That's a position I certainly would not envy. And, I will happily admit, should such a scenario arise, you would also have to be on the lookout for Intakis such as this one who would be just as happy to jab the knife in. Personally I have little care or time anymore for these imperial thoughts being banded about on all sides of every argument and await the day when all sides can truly consider themselves enlightened - the day when everybody hears and is able to listen to the inner voice of reason and logic we all share, a universe without borders, without disputes, and without loudmouth, ill-thought-out plans such as yours. I can appreciate you have not written this as an official Ushra'Khan spokesperson as I have always held them in high regard. Such hate-filled plans as this do nothing to ease tensions. I believe the executive term for plans such as this is 'back to the drawing board'. Respectfully, TD About TGRAD
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 11:19:00 - [19] You really are nothing more than an undisciplined bunch of crude peons after all. Keep enjoying your drugs, 'Doc'. ----------------------------------------------
Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 11:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Doc Extropy First of all, every non - loyalist Amarr will be free to go (I also wrote that) and join another empire, including the Caldari State, of course. Why should they join another Empire, the Non-Loyalists should be the ones to help rebuild the Ammar Empire, just because they are not loyal doesn't mean that they want to see the Death of their homeland, they just want to effect change. Originally by: Doc Extropy Then I doubt that there are a lot of non - loyalists. Some are, of course, and I admire them. But most Amarr follow their obscure cults and their pathetic "Emperor". Planet side, there are Trillions of people (Sorry if that is an inaccurate statement, donÆt have a copy of the Ammar census) that live there lives normally, yes, they may subscribe to their religion. But religion is not evil, just the interpretation! Originally by: Doc Extropy And, believe me, being able to fully abandon agriculture in the Gallente Federation and the reformed Minmatar Republic would make us very good customers to the Caldari corporations. So you are going to enforce what people can do with their lives, wouldn't that make you just as bad as the people who you just defeated? Just to clarify my actual statement, If there was a war I donÆt believe the Caldari State would support either side militarily as its bad for business, better to sell to all sides and take a neutral stand. Originally by: Doc Extropy Since the Caldari are not evil per se but rather mislead by capitalist / monetarist ideals I see a bright future for this galaxy, a galaxy under the peaceful rule of three glorious empires. Nobody is inherently evil, even the Ammar. They may do things that are distasteful and reprehensible to most of us, but it is more a matter of culture and relative. Their are things we all do that someone may consider evil. DonÆt be so small minded or you'll end up like the people you are fighting

Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 12:06:00 - [21] And by the way, I am in no way an Ammar (or anyone else for that matter) apologist. I just see the reality of the situation. If you crush the Ammar in the way you proscribe you will have another situation like the Minmatar, they were kept down for generations yet they still kept that spark of freedom, do you really believe that eventually the Ammar will not rise again. It is far better to effect change and let the Ammar come about there own way.
Vii Leosude Minmatar 77th Wing-Red Death	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:01:00 - [22] This "plan" seems to go against everything Ive heard Ushra'Khan stands for. How could you possibly call yourself a freedom fighter when you are clearly planning on subjugating a people?
Vicarrah Minmatar Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:01:00 - [23] Edited by: Vicarrah on 22/02/2007 12:59:04 I find it most distressing that I agree with the amarrian posters here, rather than someone who claims to be on the side of light. What you propose is slavery in another form, an idealogical and phsyical slavery imposed because you fear that amarrians cannot change. Change has its own inertia, and you either find the tipping point, or use overwhelming force. humanity and post-humanity as a whole needs to evolve itself out of this chest-beating neanderthalism, force is not the answer. I sincerely hope that this is the ravings of a fool caught in a moral time-slip. If this not the case, and the majority of Matari feel this way, then I fear we have already lost. Vicarrah Tahiri Warrior
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa Ka Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Vii Leosude This "plan" seems to go against everything Ive heard Ushra'Khan stands for. Many of the personal comments from the Ushra'Khan camp seem to go against everything Ushra'Khan stands for, or once stood for. By living outside our tribal lands I feel that many of it's pilots have lost touch with the Matari culture and lifestyle. Still, while there are many strong minded Matari amongst it's ranks, there is still hope. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:24:00 - [25] I do not agree with you brother. I would happily kill on the spot every single person that tries to enslave another. Taking that thought further, compromising the freedom of another person would then dictate that I commit suicide. Please reconsider. Ushra'Khan is about freedom. The only thing I would wish after winning a war against the Amarr would be for slavery in any form to be universally outlawed throughout the Galaxy.
Amalas Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 13:45:00 - [26] Doc Extropy, While I respect your freedom to speak your mind I do not respect your views. We must never lower ourselves to that level, to do so leaves us no better than the Amarr that enslave so many of our people. I can only hope your comments were a joke, made to bait the Amarr loyalists.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.22 14:04:00 - [27] I find it slightly amusing that when an U'K member talks about killing the Amarr, several U'K members step up in protest, but when an U'K executor declares a Matari leader as the alliance's number one enemy, there is no protest but only vague excuses of it being a "just a symbolic gesture". That said, plans like this are premature, and saying there is "no doubt" of the outcome of a war - any war, let alone one of this scale - is arrogance to the verge of insanity. Someone with that level of grasp of realities is certainly not the one to lay out plans about what to do with the survivors of a war. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now.
Amalas Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 14:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon I find it slightly amusing that when an U'K member talks about killing the Amarr, several U'K members step up in protest No UshraÆKhan member said anything of the sort. We only stated that we were against treating the Amarr in a way similar to how they treat many of our people.
Rabbitual Ferrier	Posted - 2007.02.22 15:31:00 - [29] Edited by: Rabbitual Ferrier on 22/02/2007 15:41:59 alt default!
Lux Simian	Posted - 2007.02.22 15:46:00 - [30] The Ammar are not scum, whilst I do not agree with them, or their actions, I would not presume to dictate how they live their lives. War may yet be avoided, and neither you nor I speak either for the Federation, nor our respective groups. The Minmitar may have reason to hate the Ammar and Ammatar, but the Federation does not. In defeating ones enemys it is essential to ensure that we would not become them. You have allowed yourself and your decisions to be affected by your emotions, rather than your rational self. That is why the Federation has laws and procedures regarding Warfare. 1 - And how long before the Federation would be called upon to intervine in the Minmitar occupied Territory to protect the Ammar and Ammatar supported races? How could the Federation occupy Ammarians socially and condem them for their pervious occupations and enslavement. 2 - The Industry and Military of Ammar would likewise be required in order to protect themselves and supply themselves. The Universe is a hostile place, and how could they protect themselves against vendetta from Minmitar familys or from Piracy such as the Blood Raiders? 3 - We do not indoctrinate others, nor do we endorse slavery. We could not in all conscince do this unto others, and remain in a position of moral standing. 4 - The Federation does not endorse the restiction of a society under the command of others. Limiting the Ammar to aggriculture would be impossible, given their dependency of Slave Labour, they would face fammine unprecidented in history. 5 & 6 - The Ammar must not be treated any differently than any other race. Those who have crimes to answer for, will answer for them where applicable, and in due jurisdance of existing laws, before tribunial with transparancy. No action must be pursued on racial or nationalist agendas. 7 - Have you no compassion, how many of the Ammar or Ammatar would you punish before you fulfill your own desire for revenge? Can you not see that even among the Amarr there are victims, they may be oppressors but be asured they are themselves oppressed. Their chains are not physical but emotional and mental. 8 - Traitors? There are no traitors to us, we are Gallente. Treat them worse? In whos name, the peoples? the Federation? Would you submit to evil, to stop evil? In all things measure, your plan would condem us to become Slave Makers and Oppressors, in the name of a cause you have borrowed. I have fought among the Matari, and defended Minmitar space, but I do not do so out of hate, but through compassion for the Plight of the Minmitar. If war comes like you say, and we prevail absolutely, then difficult decisions will need to be made. But we must not condem entire people in poverty, slavery and famine just because they have done so to others. Justice brother, not vengence. Peace Be Lux Simian

Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 15:47:00 - [31] Edited by: Doc Extropy on 22/02/2007 15:51:28 Edited by: Doc Extropy on 22/02/2007 15:46:14 Of course my plan is only there for debate. But, to make my point of view clear, I fear that as long as any form of "Amarr Empire" exists it will oppress and enslave other people. I met many Amarr who disagree with or even fight against the Empire, but, from a realists point of view, what good can come out of the political entity "Amarr Empire"? Maybe there is another way - an "Amarr development plan", which would go like this: 1. Immediate release of all slaves, so the Gallente Federation, the reformed Minmatar Republic and the Caldari State get back their people. The Amarr pay reparations to the then former slaves, their families and cover all expenses for counseling and healing the mutilations their tortures have caused. 2. The Amarr get information about how to work, they also get supplies to rebuild their economy from scratch WITHOUT slavery. This is not only doable, it would also give the other empires a big boost. 3. The Amarr commit themselves to abandoning or at least heavily reforming their religion (to a point it is compatible with human rights and self determination). 4. The Amarr totally abandon monarchy. While constituent monarchy may be a model for nations where the monarch family is renowned for liberalism, humanism and mental health, it is obvious that the Amarr monarch family is not. 5. The Amarr introduce a bicameral parliamentary democratic system with a strong emphasize on minority rights. 6. The Ammatar and the Khanid are an integral part of a future, reformed Amarr nation. 7. Those who were EVER in "possession" of a slave will stand trial in front of an international court. 8. Every adult Amarr will send a handwritten letter to a random family of one of the other empires expressing how sorry he or she is for all the pain the Amarr have caused to the other peoples. If the Amarr people commit to this plan, I guess sending them back to the stone age can be called off.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 16:00:00 - [32] You know, drafting surrender terms before a war has even been declared between Amarr and Matari, let alone between Amarr and Gallente, is pretty absurd even for a deranged warmongering terrorist. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 16:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Hooch Flux on 22/02/2007 16:18:30 Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri You know, drafting surrender terms before a war has even been declared between Amarr and Matari, let alone between Amarr and Gallente, is pretty absurd even for a deranged warmongering terrorist. Your're right Gaven, and as I'm sure you noticed. You're sworn enemies are not as hell bent on the Empires distruction as (maybe) you thought they were. I think the major thing is that all sides can learn from each other and that (I know your going to hate this) that there may be no one correct answer to these problems, "there is no one answer" and to get along in this universe everyone will have to compromise in some way or another until we learn that. The Empire's religion is one of its defining traits and should be respected. Recent Emporer's themselves have noticed a need for compromise and maybe discussions like this, starting from extremes and working there way back could be a starting point to usefull dialog and to save lives in the future.
Dominus1 Gallente Trojan Ink	Posted - 2007.02.22 16:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Doc Extropy Edited by: Doc Extropy on 22/02/2007 15:51:28 Edited by: Doc Extropy on 22/02/2007 15:46:14 Of course my plan is only there for debate. But, to make my point of view clear, I fear that as long as any form of "Amarr Empire" exists it will oppress and enslave other people. I met many Amarr who disagree with or even fight against the Empire, but, from a realists point of view, what good can come out of the political entity "Amarr Empire"? Maybe there is another way - an "Amarr development plan", which would go like this: 1. Immediate release of all slaves, so the Gallente Federation, the reformed Minmatar Republic and the Caldari State get back their people. The Amarr pay reparations to the then former slaves, their families and cover all expenses for counseling and healing the mutilations their tortures have caused. 2. The Amarr get information about how to work, they also get supplies to rebuild their economy from scratch WITHOUT slavery. This is not only doable, it would also give the other empires a big boost. 3. The Amarr commit themselves to abandoning or at least heavily reforming their religion (to a point it is compatible with human rights and self determination). 4. The Amarr totally abandon monarchy. While constituent monarchy may be a model for nations where the monarch family is renowned for liberalism, humanism and mental health, it is obvious that the Amarr monarch family is not. 5. The Amarr introduce a bicameral parliamentary democratic system with a strong emphasize on minority rights. 6. The Ammatar and the Khanid are an integral part of a future, reformed Amarr nation. 7. Those who were EVER in "possession" of a slave will stand trial in front of an international court. 8. Every adult Amarr will send a handwritten letter to a random family of one of the other empires expressing how sorry he or she is for all the pain the Amarr have caused to the other peoples. If the Amarr people commit to this plan, I guess sending them back to the stone age can be called off. Get off the high horse. You're giving the other Gallente a bad name! What you are demanding is another over-zealous domineering, tyrannical regime over the current empire. The point of being a Gallente is to accept others with their choices that they have made. Even the bad ones. I agree that Amarr are despotic race, but I will not allow the Federation or any other Empire to follow down this path (not that they would or even if I had the power to do so). You want to end the slavery of your fellow Gallente? Go find Port Sanctuary, I heat the SPCS are happily taking in "recruits" from the surrounding star systems. Keep in mind if you were to believe the Amarrian rhetoric, the Federation has already "sold out" to the enemy. Dominus Causing trouble as best I can!
Hooch Flux Caldari CMOT Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.22 16:42:00 - [35] I knew something was wrong, have been living in Gallente space for too long! It rubs off you know!
Ikasu Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.02.22 16:48:00 - [36] I have yet to read all the messages broadcast here, but I did read the initial post so i'll just my short 2 cents... I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed that people like this make up part of the face of our race. Since when are the Caldari evil? And hell, even the Amarr. What they're doing may be "Dark and evil" but at least they believe that they're fighting for a good cause. While I wouldn't doubt war, hoping for it is a very negative thing. Best case scenario? Caldari and Gallente work out political issues and loosen tensions, the Minmater are given the freedom they wish and begin serious trade and advancment thats not based around their current fights and struggles, and the Amarr retreat into their own little corner of space content with the concept that we're all going to burn when God shows up. While it probably wont happen...it'd be a nicer alternative to war. Or, then again, maybe the only reason i'm preaching anti war is because I have Caldarian friends, and i'd hate to fire on them.
Lux Simian	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:11:00 - [37] I would imagine that by the time such a conflict had played out, and countless billions had been destroyed, there would be very little left of the victors, let alone those who were defeated. Better to avoid such a conflict. If the Ammar come for the Minmitar on Mass they know we will assist them, but the Minmitar are aware that if they were to initiate full scale hostilitys against the Ammar, that they would require the Federations assistance to prevail. This apocolypse would require it to be in ALL Nations interests to risk being destroyed Peace Be
Dag Nabbitt	Posted - 2007.02.22 19:00:00 - [38] A glimmer, the very beginning, of understanding comes to the Usha'Khan. Is it pointed in a useful direction, not really, but it is a start. It is central to our Faith that the barbarous peoples must be subjugated and shown the errors of their ways. This subjugation must last until such time as they have embraced the truth and can live with their fellows in peace. Until they have been "civilized" and learned virtue and proper behavior. It is our duty, and our destiny, to enlighten the galaxy until no one lives in darkness. To see a Minmatar terrorist embrace an element of that vision so clearly, to see bringing civilization to the world as an admirable goal, warms my heart. That he understands that subjugation is a reasonable, effective strategy should make us proud. It's ironic to see it from a Gallente, but at least it's not a Gallente displaying his genitals, so maybe there is some hint of progress there, as well. 598 Days and Counting, Dag
Sylus Grymme Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.22 20:24:00 - [39] Edited by: Sylus Grymme on 22/02/2007 20:21:55 Originally by: Doc Extropy Originally by: Rodj Blake You forgot the last step: 9. Doc Entropy wakes up from his dream. I will remind you of your words when you stand trial for being a loyalist when your Empire of Scum will be defeated. I agree with what he said. Please add my name to that list and try to collect. Normally I hear talk similar to this and just sort of laugh it off as just another zelot jumping on an ammo box speaking his (or her) piece. But that was one of the most hate filled, disturbing, diatribes I've heard in quite awhile. Words like 'unhinged' and 'deranged' come to mind when reading that (I can only assume the was meant to be maniacal laughter). I feel sorry for you.
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.02.22 20:48:00 - [40] Let's see if anything will be left to fight the Empire once you are finished with the Republic. I find it quite amusing that U'K is currently a greater danger to your petty little state than the Empire, that is still holding true to the Yulai treaties. Keep up the good work of destabilizing the Republic - you might get a medal once the imperial provinces have been reinstated before you are finally hung then. Oh, THAT would be an ironic feat. Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.

Wanoah Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.22 22:21:00 - [41] While we all might have different ideas of how the peace should be won, the most important thing is that we, the Ushra'Khan, are united in our belief that a war on slavery and those who practice it is a necessary evil. I do not agree with my brothers-in-arms on many things. It's a beautiful thing, disagreement. Disagreement allows us to have lively debate and discussion. Disagreement represents individuality. This is possible only when we have the freedom of action and mind necessary to facilitate it. Ultimately, that is something that we want to see available to everyone in New Eden. Ultimately, that is what we are all agreed upon within the ranks of Ushra'Khan. This is not about race, creed or religion, except where the Amarrians choose to make it so. It is about fundamental human rights, and again, the Amarrian people have a choice. Conflict can be avoided altogether if the Amarrians are willing to change the way their society works. Change is coming, whether you like it or not, so why not embrace the change? One day, when slavery has been abolished, and the huddled masses that make the Empire work have been emancipated, maybe I will sit down and drink with my enemies, and maybe we can discuss the issue of human rights in a civilised manner. Old foes exchanging ideas instead of X-Ray pulses and phased plasma shells. That's my fondest dream, and my plan for the peace that follows the war. Not as grandiose as the attempted overthrow of a government that has lasted millennia, but a personal grain of hope that something good will come of this.
Nachshon Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.02.23 02:04:00 - [42] The first plan you propose is EVIL. It is worse than slavery. It condemns the Amarr race to live in a primitive state forever. __________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ.
Venitas	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:05:00 - [43] Originally by: Hooch Flux I knew something was wrong, have been living in Gallente space for too long! It rubs off you know! We have an ointment for that. It's called Vitoc.
Venitas	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:10:00 - [44] Originally by: Dag Nabbitt It is central to our Faith that the barbarous peoples must be subjugated and shown the errors of their ways. This subjugation must last until such time as they have embraced the truth and can live with their fellows in peace. Until they have been "civilized" and learned virtue and proper behavior. It is our duty, and our destiny, to enlighten the galaxy until no one lives in darkness. To see a Minmatar terrorist embrace an element of that vision so clearly, to see bringing civilization to the world as an admirable goal, warms my heart. That he understands that subjugation is a reasonable, effective strategy should make us proud. It's ironic to see it from a Gallente, but at least it's not a Gallente displaying his genitals, so maybe there is some hint of progress there, as well. Regrettably, while he is showing a glimmer of understanding regarding the purpose of Imperial slavery, he does so without the Faith that makes it Just and Holy. It is like watching the Adversary as he crafts a twisted and evil parody of the Holy Church.
Silas Vitalia Khanid Provincial Vanguard Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:34:00 - [45] Doc, you are a wonderful representation for your race and your organization. Truly an example for us to judge the rest of your ilk by. Since you are living in fantasy-land though, let's hypothesize about the war you propose. The 2v2 Caldari/Amarr versus Minnie/Gallente battle royal would certainly be a lopsided conflict to say the least. I'd give the "Millente" forces 10:1 odds they'd last more than two weeks before being utterly obliterated under a barrage of torpedoes and tachyons. It really wouldn't even be fair....It's almost tempting to say let's be done with it and start it already, but then we'd have to endure 50 years of bad IGS posts by you all coming up with excuses as to why you all performed so poorly. Back to reality. Is anyone else tired of the bi-weekly "I hate Amarrians" rants? Hasn't this gotten old yet? Seriously, you are just making yourself look silly. If your goal is to encourage an actual debate on the issues, there are possible (although I'm sure quite difficult for some) ways of pursuing this without resorting to the standard "Amarrians bad / me good" logic. If you bring civility to the table with your initial statements, you'll often find you get civility in return. In conclusion, have some self respect. You do yourself and your people a disservice by your statements. I'd say you should be ashamed but I doubt you have the capacity for such an emotion.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.23 07:38:00 - [46] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 23/02/2007 07:36:04 Add the original post alongside the Matari cannibal's manifesto and the Gallente shooting a Caldari captive in the head to make a point about the need for peace, tolerance, and understanding: it does absolutely nothing for its own cause (other than, perhaps, giving the rest of Ushra'Khan a chance to demonstrate its relative moderation) and makes said cause very difficult for a lot of the rest of us to support. Mr. Entropy, if you are, in fact, an agent for the Amarr, I congratulate you on a job well done. If you are not, I can only attribute this to a lack of common sense. For the love of the Maker, Mr. Entropy, even if you're planning on committing attrocities on this scale, you certainly don't tell your intended victims about it. If your sentiments are in any way commonly held, I've clearly been having nightmares about invasion by the wrong empire, and, what's more, I might have to admit that the Amarr have a point when they talk about civilizing others. That's a point I don't relish the notion of granting, so please don't give them further evidence. Even as it is, I imagine passages from this ill-considered plan are going to be turning up on Amarrian military recruiting posters. You know you've done yourself and others a disservice when being dismissed as a lunatic is the best you can hope for.
Natalcya Katla Astropolitan Front	Posted - 2007.02.24 14:13:00 - [47] Edited by: Natalcya Katla on 24/02/2007 14:11:04 I find it curious that all these sabre-rattlers who talk about a "two versus two" interstellar (although really interplanetary) war tend to completely ignore the fact that there exists a fifth major armed force in the inner cluster. One who is present in force in every region claimed by the interplanetary empires. In order for today's borders to become tomorrow's fronts, somebody will have to try to neutralize CONCORD first - because I can hardly imagine a united, armed and neutral force being allowed to exist and function on both sides of that front. I also doubt that CONCORD are just going to lay down their arms, disband and die silently. They have come too far, done too much, to just quit. So the first point on the agenda of any interplanetary aggressor would have to be putting down the watchdog. They would probably succeed in evicting them from their own territory. Quite possibly, CONCORD would even leave without a fight. But CONCORD would then be firmly allied with the other bloc. And I can't imagine that bloc refusing the added manpower and the huge military boost they would receive with CONCORD's armed forces alongside them. The victor in any cluster-wide war would be whoever managed to win the support of CONCORD. And the best way to gain that support would be, I imagine, to not be the aggressor. That, I hope, will be enough of an incentive for all parties to pursue a path of moderation.
Tyr Vaantau Amarr Peregrin Avionics	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:29:00 - [48] No human being in their right mind would ever allow themselves to be submitted to those kind of plans. Attempting to force that kind of regime upon the Amarr in a post-war event would give you nothing less than the total active hostility of all Amarr people. Just as the Minmatar rebelled against us long ago and won, the Amarr would rise up and throw your chains away in exactly the same manner. Those plans would start another war. ------
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:48:00 - [49] Originally by: Tyr Vaantau No human being in their right mind would ever allow themselves to be submitted to those kind of plans. Attempting to force that kind of regime upon the Amarr in a post-war event would give you nothing less than the total active hostility of all Amarr people. Just as the Minmatar rebelled against us long ago and won, the Amarr would rise up and throw your chains away in exactly the same manner. Those plans would start another war. An amusing prospect, PIE Inc - For the Freedom to Enslave! ----------------------------------------------
Thomas Maleficus Caldari Maleficus Inc	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:49:00 - [50] Doc, as a former fellow alliance member and a former corp member, I say you ought to be ashamed of your statements and I whole heartedly disagree with what you have stated. I find it offensive you would insult my people the way you have. I offered everything I have in the name of freedom for all. I fought and will fight again for freedom, that is not exclusive to the Matari people but for all people who are enslaved. If such an event were to take place I will surely join the enslaved in their fight for freedom for no man has the right to take away the freedom of will and thought from another. I ask you now to retract your statement and I personally after the sacrifices I and other Caldari people have made in the name of freedom would like to hear an apology for your glaringly racist statement about my people. For the rest of you, please keep in mind he has expressed his views, not the views representing all members of the Ushra'Khan. Pirates stole my signature.



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