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Trust ? CCP do you know what trust is ?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:11:00 - [31] Originally by: Arcticblue2 Blah Blah Blah...erm Blah Can I have your corpse? _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Arcticblue2 Blah Blah Blah...erm Blah Can I have your corpse? _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:16:00 - [33] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 23/02/2007 09:16:26 I am conflicted, wondering if I would renew my sub when its over. (for the kiddies whos gonna flame me, stop. I dont care, you are just wasting space, I have till August to decide. and my real life friend, (if she hangs around longer than me.) is getting my stuff. ) on one hand, the handling of the scandal is okay, I dont mind that much, on the other, the dev blogs scares me, the mission changing one... iffy, but okay, (I cant help but feel there is going to be nerfs to what we enjoy...IE: watching a dozen ships blow up one right after another in a HUGE fight...and spliting lvl 4 into easy/low reward lvl 4 and moving the higher end/fun ones to lvl 5 thats in low sec.... that doesnt sound too appealing either. ) but I am OKAY with that. BUT now, the R&D changes totally makes me wonder "WTF"... I mean, the system with Lottery AND invention is fine, invention might need to be made easier... but why fix something with a solution that is worst?... (well worst for those who are doing R&D and the general population but GREAT for those who already own it.. AHEM, the "Special" selected few...cough ) and Oveur's lack of mention on removing the T2 BPOs after disconintuing them really prompted the decision at this time to not renew for the next cycle. What was the reasoning behind that?... it effectively gave those with T2 BPOs an "I will always Win" Market/Economic I win button. and to stay on topic, the actions taken by CCP right now DO NOT help increasing trust from where I am standing. increasing trasparency, punishing the involving parties (even if its done as a show.) does. sweeping it under the rug and distracting people with other issues doesnt. ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:16:00 - [34] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 23/02/2007 09:16:26 I am conflicted, wondering if I would renew my sub when its over. (for the kiddies whos gonna flame me, stop. I dont care, you are just wasting space, I have till August to decide. and my real life friend, (if she hangs around longer than me.) is getting my stuff. ) on one hand, the handling of the scandal is okay, I dont mind that much, on the other, the dev blogs scares me, the mission changing one... iffy, but okay, (I cant help but feel there is going to be nerfs to what we enjoy...IE: watching a dozen ships blow up one right after another in a HUGE fight...and spliting lvl 4 into easy/low reward lvl 4 and moving the higher end/fun ones to lvl 5 thats in low sec.... that doesnt sound too appealing either. ) but I am OKAY with that. BUT now, the R&D changes totally makes me wonder "WTF"... I mean, the system with Lottery AND invention is fine, invention might need to be made easier... but why fix something with a solution that is worst?... (well worst for those who are doing R&D and the general population but GREAT for those who already own it.. AHEM, the "Special" selected few...cough ) and Oveur's lack of mention on removing the T2 BPOs after disconintuing them really prompted the decision at this time to not renew for the next cycle. What was the reasoning behind that?... it effectively gave those with T2 BPOs an "I will always Win" Market/Economic I win button. and to stay on topic, the actions taken by CCP right now DO NOT help increasing trust from where I am standing. increasing trasparency, punishing the involving parties (even if its done as a show.) does. sweeping it under the rug and distracting people with other issues doesnt. ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:17:00 - [35] Originally by: Pinky Denmark By stopping T2 BPO lottery we won't get more bpo's in-game, but as it has worked we wouldn't get any anyway (as ccp pretty much has the lottery closed down most of the time only opening it for resupply and the new modules/ammo) An important point many forget. In fact I seem to remember an period a while back where everyone was jumping up and down because a bunch of new/reclaimed BPOs were be released, the first major action the lottery saw in ages. Anyway, CCP have told us everything they can about what is going on, are taking steps to make things better in the future, are making a huge effort to keep us informed about these next steps, are taking the community's feedback into account when planning their next steps, are avoiding knee-jerk reactions to baseless demands made by certain parts of the community, all while staying true to their basic vision of Eve and trying to keep the game and the company successful now and into the future, and are now on the forum laying it out in frank honest terms. Given a choice between that and the relatively simpler task of balancing a ball on another ball, I'd take the latter personally. -------------------- Verone for President of EVE
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Pinky Denmark By stopping T2 BPO lottery we won't get more bpo's in-game, but as it has worked we wouldn't get any anyway (as ccp pretty much has the lottery closed down most of the time only opening it for resupply and the new modules/ammo) An important point many forget. In fact I seem to remember an period a while back where everyone was jumping up and down because a bunch of new/reclaimed BPOs were be released, the first major action the lottery saw in ages. Anyway, CCP have told us everything they can about what is going on, are taking steps to make things better in the future, are making a huge effort to keep us informed about these next steps, are taking the community's feedback into account when planning their next steps, are avoiding knee-jerk reactions to baseless demands made by certain parts of the community, all while staying true to their basic vision of Eve and trying to keep the game and the company successful now and into the future, and are now on the forum laying it out in frank honest terms. Given a choice between that and the relatively simpler task of balancing a ball on another ball, I'd take the latter personally. -------------------- Verone for President of EVE
Eviloution	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:42:00 - [37] Originally by: Arcticblue2 So Kieron... you want to regain some trust ? I am refering to your blog Trust, T2 lottery I'm sorry but fixing the T2 lottery is NOT what most of us who have canceled our accounts (yes I have) is looking for, sure it is nice if you guys do that but it won't make me trust you guys more. Do you guys really know what it means to regain trust ? you got to do the right thing, the way you guys handled this was NOT the way to get trust from your community. I think that most agree with me that if you guys started to ban those who deserve to ban and I won't go much into that now but you know what I mean I am sure of. And most important ... TALK to the community, don't stop talking and refuse to answer the questions people have and I refer to your new IA guy who have got completly silent once questions I suppose you guys don't like to read or won't/can't answer comes. Right now the only thing I do trust you guys into is getting this post locked/deleted.... Yawn,, I've been playing EVE for over 2 years, the events havent changed my opinion of the game, to all these moronic posts I see from you people about quitting EVE because of this I say leave, please, free up the bandwidth, unclutter the forums of your annoying drivel and can I have your stuff.
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Arcticblue2 Blah Blah Blah...erm Blah Can I have your corpse? I belive Turbulent (pirate corp) have my corpse.... if they did bother to pick it up that is, or it might float around near the gate between Uphallant and Iges (on the iges side). Anyway to answer what can be done with the T2 lottery ? it is actually quite simple... change it to be like todays missions. You earn RP by doing missions for the RnD agents, you get offer of various T2 bpc's and on rare occations you get offers of BPO's... Remove the auto RP that we get today, that way you got to WORK and EARN your T2 bpo's and bpc's. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Eviloution	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:42:00 - [39] Originally by: Arcticblue2 So Kieron... you want to regain some trust ? I am refering to your blog Trust, T2 lottery I'm sorry but fixing the T2 lottery is NOT what most of us who have canceled our accounts (yes I have) is looking for, sure it is nice if you guys do that but it won't make me trust you guys more. Do you guys really know what it means to regain trust ? you got to do the right thing, the way you guys handled this was NOT the way to get trust from your community. I think that most agree with me that if you guys started to ban those who deserve to ban and I won't go much into that now but you know what I mean I am sure of. And most important ... TALK to the community, don't stop talking and refuse to answer the questions people have and I refer to your new IA guy who have got completly silent once questions I suppose you guys don't like to read or won't/can't answer comes. Right now the only thing I do trust you guys into is getting this post locked/deleted.... Yawn,, I've been playing EVE for over 2 years, the events havent changed my opinion of the game, to all these moronic posts I see from you people about quitting EVE because of this I say leave, please, free up the bandwidth, unclutter the forums of your annoying drivel and can I have your stuff.
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Arcticblue2 Blah Blah Blah...erm Blah Can I have your corpse? I belive Turbulent (pirate corp) have my corpse.... if they did bother to pick it up that is, or it might float around near the gate between Uphallant and Iges (on the iges side). Anyway to answer what can be done with the T2 lottery ? it is actually quite simple... change it to be like todays missions. You earn RP by doing missions for the RnD agents, you get offer of various T2 bpc's and on rare occations you get offers of BPO's... Remove the auto RP that we get today, that way you got to WORK and EARN your T2 bpo's and bpc's. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.

Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:01:00 - [41] Originally by: Arcticblue2 You earn RP by doing missions for the RnD agents, you get offer of various T2 bpc's and on rare occations you get offers of BPO's... Remove the auto RP that we get today, that way you got to WORK and EARN your T2 bpo's and bpc's. No. Missions!=R&D. I will not quit Eve if CCP increase the correlation between the Science profession and the Mindless Grinding I'm A ******* Noob Kill Me Plz profession even more. But if I was the sort to go 'OMG I quit!!!one', I'd be saying it about now. I gave up on Research/Science (The aspect of the game which originally attracted me to Eve), because there is no Research/Science just mindless mission grinding. At least now having grinded up to Level 3 agents (and no doubt having done myself brain damage by partaking in so many missions) I am getting a slow bunch of RP, which is basically ISK slowly rolling into my wallet indirectly. -------------------- Verone for President of EVE
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Arcticblue2 You earn RP by doing missions for the RnD agents, you get offer of various T2 bpc's and on rare occations you get offers of BPO's... Remove the auto RP that we get today, that way you got to WORK and EARN your T2 bpo's and bpc's. No. Missions!=R&D. I will not quit Eve if CCP increase the correlation between the Science profession and the Mindless Grinding I'm A ******* Noob Kill Me Plz profession even more. But if I was the sort to go 'OMG I quit!!!one', I'd be saying it about now. I gave up on Research/Science (The aspect of the game which originally attracted me to Eve), because there is no Research/Science just mindless mission grinding. At least now having grinded up to Level 3 agents (and no doubt having done myself brain damage by partaking in so many missions) I am getting a slow bunch of RP, which is basically ISK slowly rolling into my wallet indirectly. -------------------- Verone for President of EVE
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:07:00 - [43] Broken trust is one of the hardest things to ever recover from. The Broken Trust for the player base was not simply the act of a dev who spawned free BPOs for his corp/alliance. The Broken Trust stems from how this situation was handled, and subsequent situations were handled. It has highlighted in that CCP has on many occasions applied a double standard. There was a case of GM who spawned a rare faction ship and full officer/faction gear. It was caught. The GM was fired. All items related to the event were discovered and removed from the game within days. During the investigation phase some player accounts where suspended while the investigation took place. Contrast this to dev's action. He didn't merely spawn a few modules or ships. He spawned some of the rarest items in the game, T2 BPOs. Now let us look at how it was investigated. He was not fired. No accounts were suspended. Despite internal measures being aware that the illicit items existed they took no action to remove said items from the game. They took no action until a whistleblower revealed the information. The person who conducted the investigation, and presumably made the decisions to leave the items in game and also to not fire the dev responsible, is now head of Internal Security. The dev in question has been promoted since the commencement of the act. This is not something that promotes confidence in the game population. One player posted personal information and was banned for it. It is also a fact that his whistleblowing has cost subscriptions and embarassment, however had the dev not performed the illicit act their would have been nothing to whistleblow. If at the time of the original investigation the items had been removed and as was the case in the GM incident a posting made there would have been nothing to whistleblow. Another player, a member of the alliance which benefited from the dev misconduct, also posted personal information of a player. He went further to request folks to call the individuals place of work asking that the individual be fired. This was a clear case of harassment covered by the TOS and the EULA yet this person was not banned. This is only a few cases in which we can see a double standard was applied for similar incidents. It is this double standard which has caused the greatest problem for CCP. There must be one standard, one rule for all. Only when such is established and enforced, will CCP be capable of gaining back much of the trust and respect they have lost.
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:07:00 - [44] Broken trust is one of the hardest things to ever recover from. The Broken Trust for the player base was not simply the act of a dev who spawned free BPOs for his corp/alliance. The Broken Trust stems from how this situation was handled, and subsequent situations were handled. It has highlighted in that CCP has on many occasions applied a double standard. There was a case of GM who spawned a rare faction ship and full officer/faction gear. It was caught. The GM was fired. All items related to the event were discovered and removed from the game within days. During the investigation phase some player accounts where suspended while the investigation took place. Contrast this to dev's action. He didn't merely spawn a few modules or ships. He spawned some of the rarest items in the game, T2 BPOs. Now let us look at how it was investigated. He was not fired. No accounts were suspended. Despite internal measures being aware that the illicit items existed they took no action to remove said items from the game. They took no action until a whistleblower revealed the information. The person who conducted the investigation, and presumably made the decisions to leave the items in game and also to not fire the dev responsible, is now head of Internal Security. The dev in question has been promoted since the commencement of the act. This is not something that promotes confidence in the game population. One player posted personal information and was banned for it. It is also a fact that his whistleblowing has cost subscriptions and embarassment, however had the dev not performed the illicit act their would have been nothing to whistleblow. If at the time of the original investigation the items had been removed and as was the case in the GM incident a posting made there would have been nothing to whistleblow. Another player, a member of the alliance which benefited from the dev misconduct, also posted personal information of a player. He went further to request folks to call the individuals place of work asking that the individual be fired. This was a clear case of harassment covered by the TOS and the EULA yet this person was not banned. This is only a few cases in which we can see a double standard was applied for similar incidents. It is this double standard which has caused the greatest problem for CCP. There must be one standard, one rule for all. Only when such is established and enforced, will CCP be capable of gaining back much of the trust and respect they have lost.
Fenella	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:25:00 - [45] You use regaining trust as a motivation for redesigning the T2 BPO market, yet there is nothing in any of this that would prevent the same issue reoccuring as before, but in this case it would be Dev creation of a BPC instead of a BPO. Its not BPO's we don't trust, it's CCP's ability do deal with misconduct in both employee and player arena's. But as Keiron so eloquently puts it :- Quote: QUIT or STFU !
Fenella	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:25:00 - [46] You use regaining trust as a motivation for redesigning the T2 BPO market, yet there is nothing in any of this that would prevent the same issue reoccuring as before, but in this case it would be Dev creation of a BPC instead of a BPO. Its not BPO's we don't trust, it's CCP's ability do deal with misconduct in both employee and player arena's. But as Keiron so eloquently puts it :- Quote: QUIT or STFU !
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf Broken trust is one of the hardest things to ever recover from. and wrote more... That is what I did mean, if anyone bother reading the blogs from dev and IA guy, and the 106 page thread... (and the one with IA guy) you find out that CCP have NOT answered these questions. Apart from that they say they have internally punished T20 and they can't punish him twice for the crime he did (wich is true..). The question about the hacker and revealing information on the forums, well I support the fact that you ban people revealing real life information about someone on these forums... so why did they not punish the other one ? .. yet another question not answered by CCP. In the end that was a good post by Bienurdau Hywoaf and dealing with these questions will help restore much of the faith and trust in CCP. Refusal to deal with this will NOT help, atleast not in my case. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:28:00 - [48] Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf Broken trust is one of the hardest things to ever recover from. and wrote more... That is what I did mean, if anyone bother reading the blogs from dev and IA guy, and the 106 page thread... (and the one with IA guy) you find out that CCP have NOT answered these questions. Apart from that they say they have internally punished T20 and they can't punish him twice for the crime he did (wich is true..). The question about the hacker and revealing information on the forums, well I support the fact that you ban people revealing real life information about someone on these forums... so why did they not punish the other one ? .. yet another question not answered by CCP. In the end that was a good post by Bienurdau Hywoaf and dealing with these questions will help restore much of the faith and trust in CCP. Refusal to deal with this will NOT help, atleast not in my case. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:45:00 - [49] Quote: Invention is a new system, it's much easier to track activity in and short of being our database administrator, you can't tamper with it. This was my favorite part of the blog, now what WAS the name of that DB admin? T something? A number maybe? Dang, memory like a sieve these day... -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:45:00 - [50] Quote: Invention is a new system, it's much easier to track activity in and short of being our database administrator, you can't tamper with it. This was my favorite part of the blog, now what WAS the name of that DB admin? T something? A number maybe? Dang, memory like a sieve these day... -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --

NSA Bivas Gallente Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:56:00 - [51] stop wasting your time no one frome ccp reads the forums
NSA Bivas Gallente Eye of God X-PACT	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:56:00 - [52] stop wasting your time no one frome ccp reads the forums
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:03:00 - [53] Originally by: NSA Bivas stop wasting your time no one frome ccp reads the forums That is quite a nasty thing to say, actually it is a blunt lie. And telling lies is a sin. Didn't you notice that Kieron unlocked the locked thread and replied to the guy? I trust CCP that they will listen to the people and that they will balance the invention stuff and the t2 lottery. Why not continue the lottery but instead of BPO's you get some nice running BPC's? This way people still can win something but the lottery became not that important any more. IATL
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:03:00 - [54] Originally by: NSA Bivas stop wasting your time no one frome ccp reads the forums That is quite a nasty thing to say, actually it is a blunt lie. And telling lies is a sin. Didn't you notice that Kieron unlocked the locked thread and replied to the guy? I trust CCP that they will listen to the people and that they will balance the invention stuff and the t2 lottery. Why not continue the lottery but instead of BPO's you get some nice running BPC's? This way people still can win something but the lottery became not that important any more. IATL

Ivan Kirilenkov Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:06:00 - [55] Closing this again; the issue raised has been answered by Kieron. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website


Ivan Kirilenkov Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:06:00 - [56] Closing this again; the issue raised has been answered by Kieron. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website


kieron	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:05:00 - [57] Originally by: Reverend Revelator Quote: Invention is a new system, it's much easier to track activity in and short of being our database administrator, you can't tamper with it. This was my favorite part of the blog, now what WAS the name of that DB admin? T something? A number maybe? Dang, memory like a sieve these day... Actually no, t20 is not a db admin, he works in a different department. So yes, memory like a sieve these days. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online


kieron	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Reverend Revelator Quote: Invention is a new system, it's much easier to track activity in and short of being our database administrator, you can't tamper with it. This was my favorite part of the blog, now what WAS the name of that DB admin? T something? A number maybe? Dang, memory like a sieve these day... Actually no, t20 is not a db admin, he works in a different department. So yes, memory like a sieve these days. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online



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