Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ruri
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 00:44:00 -
[1]
Just wondering and i'd certain invite CCP to comment.
But, why does Eve and CCP seem to be pushing more and more towards PVP for everybody?
I'm a happy little miner who occasional builds a ship for sale, and occasionally does a lvl 1 or lvl 2 mission.
and before anybody accuse me of being some major money maker, no I think i have at most 20 mil in my wallet at the moment, though i do have a drake for sale so i hope to log on one day and have 65 mil. I think its the most i've ever had.
But even the dev blog says "Slowly involves the "PvE" player in more "PvP" EVE activity", I'm just wondering why?
I'm more of a social player who would love to come online and chat with corp members, I'm not all that concerned with the money, I just like chatting and doing different things.
A lot of this post is just wandering thoughts, so i'll get back to the point, why is the eve game going more and more towards PVP?
|
ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 00:47:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Ruri
A lot of this post is just wandering thoughts, so i'll get back to the point, why is the eve game going more and more towards PVP?
Because that is and always has been the vision of the dev's for EvE.
|
Gadfly Hawke
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 00:48:00 -
[3]
Most PvP is group action. Therefore, you become more involved with a community. Being so involved, you're less inclined to quit and leave your friends in the lurch. PvE can easily be done solo, much more so than PvP.
G-Tek is recruiting |
Kaalen
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 01:16:00 -
[4]
EVE has always been a PvP game, this isn't just "pewpew" pirates and ganking style PvP. Everytime you sell a ship, you're competitng with another playing trying to sell theirs.
The problem, I think, is that most people see PvE and PvP and are instantly reminded of games like EQ and WoW where they are mostly used. EVE could not be further from that. No-one is going to force you to do anything in EVE that you don't want to do, if that was the intention then there would be no secure space and no concord. Everything in EVE is PvP. Everyone is competing against everyone else to make money and make a name for themselves, some choose to co-operate and those people will succeed.
CCP want to make people more interested in getting stuck into the "PvP" aspect of the game because this has always been the intention of the game. And lets face it, if no-one were to go into the fray and get their ship blown up... who would buy the ships from you? If anything, you should be glad of all the new business! Never fear, "PvE" is still going to live on in EVE and you don't have to "PvP" if you don't want to. But "PvP" certainly isn't going anywhere either, so you'd best keep that in mind and stay on your toes.
Also as a side note, you'd be astounded at how 'social' the PvP aspect of the game is. Not all PvPers are anti-social *******s who get their jollies by ruining some poor carebears day. I spend more time talking to and having fun with my corp than I do killing, and when I'm out looking for a kill I do it with friends. It's a social experience, like everything in this game should be.
|
Shameless Avenger
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 01:47:00 -
[5]
ATM I'm in a similar situation as the OP. Alliances, Low-Sec, 0.0... been there, done that. Many of us are happy whitout the PvP. I guess that the real straight question for CCP is:
"If you don't want us here, say it. Say it loud and clear, so there is no doubt in anybody's mind about it." |
Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 01:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 23/02/2007 02:10:46 I've thought about this a lot. Especially today since reading the mission changes blog. It really bothered me. I don't even really care about the changes to missions. They would actually be beneficial to me. That's not the point though.
It was the "attitude" of the blog that I got under my skin. It seemed to say to me that CCP doesn't really understand one of the worst problems in the game. It's not the "Combat PvP" guys. They fight each other and have great fun doing it. It's not the "Combat PvE" guys. They fight the NPC's and run the missions and sometimes delve into the "Combat PvP" role when they feel froggy and have great fun doing it. All is well and customers are happy. Money flows in to CCP from increased subscriptions as well as old players sticking around and continuing to do what they love.
Enter the ganktard. This is the guy that logs on just to ruin your day. His only focus is to camp a gate or tank some sentries or probe a mission and make sure you don't get out alive. Most of the time he doesn't even do it for profit. Just the joy of smashing some defenseless face meat is his motivation. If you've been to low sec you know exactly the guy I mean. If you bring friends to try to chase him away he docks. He sits in the station laughing, smacking, and getting pleasure out of knowing that now he's ruining several people's day by making them waste their time on him while they could be doing something worthwhile. He loves it. Making you unhappy makes him happy. This my friends is the problem.
To sum up PvP: Industrial PvP is great! Combat PvP is great! Gank PvP is so bad there is no curse in any language foul enough to describe it. If CCP wants "Combat PvE"s to "Combat PvP" more often (and I'm all for that!) then they will need to remove the "Gank PvP" from the equation. Until then no amount of reward is going to move anyone anywhere.
Edit: Just wanted to add this for clarification. I would quite literally park my ass in Empire mining Veldspar all day long before I would even consider letting some jackass shoot my ship out from under me. ---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 02:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Par'Gellen If CCP wants "Combat PvE"s to "Combat PvP" more often (and I'm all for that!) then they will need to remove the "Gank PvP" from the equation. Until then no amount of reward is going to move anyone anywhere.
/signed -AS |
Ruri
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 02:39:00 -
[8]
I guess it is that whole gank style of PVP i don't really like, I don't mind market PVP, and i don't engage in PVP combat style.
I must admit i was a little hesitant in posting at all, and I'm plesently surprised i haven't had somebody saying "This isn't the game for you now give me all your stuff, stfu and leave"
of course having said that i guess it isn't too far away
|
Jollyreaper
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 02:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Par'Gellen If CCP wants "Combat PvE"s to "Combat PvP" more often (and I'm all for that!) then they will need to remove the "Gank PvP" from the equation. Until then no amount of reward is going to move anyone anywhere.
/signed
Agreed. It's fun risking some iskies against equals but what's the joy in getting splattered by someone completely out of your class? "Hey, I'm a high school boxer! Whee! I'm learning the sport! Who's this coming into the ring, Mike Tyson?!!?! My ears!"
|
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 02:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ruri
I must admit i was a little hesitant in posting at all, and I'm plesently surprised i haven't had somebody saying "This isn't the game for you now give me all your stuff, stfu and leave"
Give it a little bit, I'm sure it will happen. Forum gankers :) -AS |
|
Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 03:16:00 -
[11]
As a preemptive strike on the "You just want no-risk free isk!" crap I'm sure will follow at some point let me say that I never said there should be no risk. Nobody is saying that. The game would be no fun without risk. However, with the current system everyone is perfectly safe from 1.0 to .5 then BAM! .4 DIE! DIE! DIE! This is broken. There should be increasing risk as the security rating drops, not a .4 cliff to certain death. ---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Ruri
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 03:28:00 -
[12]
i agree with the last poster on this point, I was moving systems earlier today and possible moving corps (haven't decided yet) and i pass thought a gate camp, I was in a hauler (the first caldari one, can't remember whats its called).
There were about 6 or so, can't remember i was to busy selecting the gate and jumping though, but there were quiet a few wrecks and notically no gate guns, so i was able to jump though and then when i saw one of them jump though after me i jumped to warp asap.
I guess the point is that while i didn't lose my ship and all worldy things, .4 has a reputation of 'enter here and you will die'. Now i chose to go though that/those .4 systems, I didn't check my map i plowed though, I got lucky this time but maybe i won't next time.
As an arguement to that whole risk Vs reward, this will pretty much only work for me and the style of players that are like me. I have little or no risk (except when i pass though .4 space). But on the other hand i don't have much in the way of rewards either, like i said i only have 20 odd million, a tiny sum the biggest ship i can fly with any real skill is a retriever or a destroyer maybe a cruiser. And i can only do lvl 2 missions though with this new region I'll be back to doing lvl 1 missions, again no risk/crappy rewards.
|
Soporo
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 03:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Soporo on 23/02/2007 03:34:43 Its not PvP imo, most of it. Its just various sized ganks really, thats what trips people triggers. You are either a ganker or a gankee, all other things being equal, it depends on whether you are in a combat ship with pvp or pve fitted or not.
We just got to get used to it, it's not going away, it will in fact get worse, particularly as CCP/Oveur has stated that they want to pull missioners from PVE and get them interested in PvP. IE: We dont like the way you play the game.
|
Nicholas Barker
Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 03:48:00 -
[14]
VICTORY -------------------------------------
|
Par'Gellen
Low Grade Ore
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 03:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Soporo Its not PvP imo, most of it. Its just various sized ganks really, thats what trips people triggers. You are either a ganker or a gankee, all other things being equal, it depends on whether you are in a combat ship with pvp or pve fitted or not.
We just got to get used to it, it's not going away, it will in fact get worse, particularly as CCP/Oveur has stated that they want to pull missioners from PVE and get them interested in PvP.
To my mind most of the real PvP is in the Alliance vs. Alliance combat which is already in the game and thriving all over the universe in Empire and 0.0. Those guys take it to the enemy who are doing the same thing. I respect that and find it very interesting. I've even done it myself a few times and it's quite fun. This is the PvP that makes Eve great. The cheap crap that goes on in low sec is the disaster.
Originally by: Soporo IE: We dont like the way you play the game.
I've played the game since release except for a short break. I'd call myself a loyal customer and to see CCP imply this is a real kick in the face. ---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Richard Aiel
Caldari The Funkstars Guild
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 18:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jollyreaper
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Par'Gellen If CCP wants "Combat PvE"s to "Combat PvP" more often (and I'm all for that!) then they will need to remove the "Gank PvP" from the equation. Until then no amount of reward is going to move anyone anywhere.
/signed
Agreed. It's fun risking some iskies against equals but what's the joy in getting splattered by someone completely out of your class? "Hey, I'm a high school boxer! Whee! I'm learning the sport! Who's this coming into the ring, Mike Tyson?!!?! My ears!"
Yeah, first time I was ganked in this game I had stupidly gone into a lowsec belt to mine, and I got jumped by 3 guys with T2 ships. Two were Falcons, one was a Cerberus vs a mining frigate. Yeah thats real hard core PVP right there for real courageous pirates...
*looks around the restaurant then look at his mate* "I wouldnt be greatly surprised if a little band came in and started playing *hums the Star Wars Cantina theme*" |
Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 19:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gadfly Hawke Most PvP is group action. Therefore, you become more involved with a community. Being so involved, you're less inclined to quit and leave your friends in the lurch. PvE can easily be done solo, much more so than PvP.
I played Everquest for 6 years, as a warrior, completely groupdependant for doing anything worthwhile at all. I play EVE because I can do things solo here, and I love it.
|
Turin
Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 19:15:00 -
[18]
for fcks sake, stop whining. Please.
EVE is a PVP game. Has always been a PVP game. Will always BE a pvp game.
No one ever claimed it was a fair PVP game. Maybe you would like some mechanic in place that only mining barges can attack other mining barges or something?
This game was never intended to be "fair" It was only intended to be a hardcore PVP centric game. This isnt for everyone. If its not, then quit and move on, you will likely never be happy.
________________________________________________________
|
Jack StarMule
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 19:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nicholas Barker VICTORY
Perhaps. Now for the comparison actually found in this particular debate:
PVE vs Gank
|
Aindrias
Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 19:31:00 -
[20]
It maybe that the dev blog meant that they want to make the transition from PvE to PvP more fluid by making the skill sets similar. Not as a way to force the PvEers to do PvP. Honestly, expanding the PvE environment like they are is helping, not hindering those that want to PvE. By shear definition it's an MMO, not a MSO (Massive single-player online). Some of the PvE improvements are geared toward corp related missions where it's fun to go with your corpmates to do those mishes you can do on your own.
Not sure where the stress is ;-)
Aindrias FOAMI CEO Amarr
|
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari The Funkstars Guild
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 19:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Richard Aiel on 23/02/2007 19:34:41
Originally by: Aindrias It maybe that the dev blog meant that they want to make the transition from PvE to PvP more fluid by making the skill sets similar. Not as a way to force the PvEers to do PvP. Honestly, expanding the PvE environment like they are is helping, not hindering those that want to PvE. By shear definition it's an MMO, not a MSO (Massive single-player online). Some of the PvE improvements are geared toward corp related missions where it's fun to go with your corpmates to do those mishes you can do on your own.
Not sure where the stress is ;-)
Aindrias FOAMI CEO Amarr
Yah but at the same time, its a MMORPG (according to the main page) and if I want to RP PVE AND do it solo, I should be allowed to... until they revamp the name of this genre of game to MMOPVPG instead *looks around the restaurant then look at his mate* "I wouldnt be greatly surprised if a little band came in and started playing *hums the Star Wars Cantina theme*" |
Aindrias
Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 19:52:00 -
[22]
You are allowed to.. but the game has reached a point where the hardest mishes are a peice of cake for a properly fitted Raven... errr.. .sorry.. ship
(I'm a little butt hurt actually cuz I had a faction fitted Navy Apoc and still couldn't do certain lvl 4's yet my corpie had a named fitted Raven with an XL Shield Booster and had no problems, I had a "Oh.. I can't hit stuff 150km away like a torp can problem)
So basically there's option to make the ships you fly weaker or the mishes harder and increase the ceiling level of the lvls.
The focus is to make PvE transition to PvP smoother.. there's no "You can't do mishes or be solo!... Carebear.." msg there.
Im not a dedicated PvPer either, I'm a transport specialist, Transports and frieghter 4TW (even though freighters are near useless by themselves in low sec). I can help with PvP however because my skills are ok. I found that ratting is nearly as fun as mishing.. lock and fire... and hauling for miners is social and moneymaking... PvP is exciting and boring nearly at the same time.
The Dev also spoke about indirect PvP action like selling ships, mins.. etc... so you are participating... SUFFER!!! MUUHAHAHAHA!!. k.. j/k ;-)
Aindrias
|
Halafian
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 19:57:00 -
[23]
I did small scale pvp in EC for months, and large scale pvp for a few weeks. They both sucked. PVP in Eve blows chunks. I can't understand why people like it. It's a whole lot of waiting around, a whole lot of lag, and a whole lot of unbalanced, short, and expensive fights.
Completely unfun.
And to make it worse, you're basically forced to spend the whole time on teamspeak.
Honestly, I hate teamspeak, and I hate pvp. I've been playing MMORPGs for about 10 years. For a time, I was pretty obsessed, and played at the very highest levels of the game. Eventually, I gave it up. Now I try to keep my involvement in these games small.
If CCP is going to try drag me, willy-nilly, into lowsec/0.0, by nerfing my Empire experience and growth opportunites, then I am done with Eve.
COAD shows what a complete cess-pit alliance 0.0 stuff has become -- you couldn't pay me to spend my days playing alliance 0.0 games.
If I'm going to be forced to group, forced to pvp, forced to spend evenings on teamspeak, OR hobbled by staying in empire -- then I'm done. Game play in Eve just isn't good enough for that.
|
Illyria Ambri
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 20:15:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Turin for fcks sake, stop whining. Please.
EVE is a PVP game. Has always been a PVP game. Will always BE a pvp game.
No one ever claimed it was a fair PVP game. Maybe you would like some mechanic in place that only mining barges can attack other mining barges or something?
This game was never intended to be "fair" It was only intended to be a hardcore PVP centric game. This isnt for everyone. If its not, then quit and move on, you will likely never be happy.
for fcks sake, stop clicking on links that you know DAMN well will include this.
If you have nothing else to do but whine, about ppl talking about an issue they feel is important, but you think dosen't mean **** and you could obviously care less about.. STFO
Who is worse.. the whiner or the one who whines about them?
------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom.
"Will i |
Bklyn 1
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 20:30:00 -
[25]
I must agree with Halafian, my 2 year birthday (of my main) is next week. I've done PVP, alliance PVP, etc. and mostly I've found it pretty boring. Wait around. Fly around. Listen to people on TS (I too hate TS, it ruin's the immersion for me). I guess this is fun for many people, but I don't find it to be fun so why should I be forced to do it. Isn't the point of Eve that you are not forced to do anything? Sandbox and all that?
As for ganking. No, that is not PVP, I don't care what you say. It certainly isn't fun to me, whichever side I'm on (though being the gankee is worse, but sitting there doing mostly nothing at a gate is not far behind). Why do people think the T2 lottery is a sham? Because it's not industrial PVP. In a way, it's perceived the same as a gate gank. And really, what is the difference. We play Eve for the challenge, the fun and the conflict. When you take these factors out, is it surprising that people complain?
|
Larkonis Trassler
g guild
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 20:33:00 -
[26]
Not a Rant/Whine... just hear me out
I don't quite understand the mantra of the mission runner. He sits in hi sec, hops in his faction fitted Raven and pew pews NPCs to make more money to pimp his Raven/CNR some more. Fair enough... But then what? Once you have fully Gist X ified your CNR what then? Once you have a full Crystal Set, what then. 'Make more money'. Or for that matter the hi sec miner, sat mining Omber in his hulk in 0.5? Where is your endgame? I sometimes rat, I used to run missions (Level 4s I found perfectly soloable in a T2 Fitted Raven) but the end goal was the same. Make money for Pew Pew with other players. Now the cry of a lot of bears is... 'But I can only play for an hour/two a night, just enough time for a mission'. That's plenty of time to go for a hunt in low sec or 0.0 and interact with people. You don't even have to go that far if you go and join the Privateers. You're paying your 15 bucks a month for this MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER experience. You might as well load up Elite or Freelancer if you want to run missions all day. PVP should be the end game for every pilot, you don't need to be rich, or have lots of SPs. You don't need to be part of a huge corp, etc etc. Get out there and have some REAL fun blasting/being blasted by people. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler |
Richard Aiel
Caldari The Funkstars Guild
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 20:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Halafian
If I'm going to be forced to group, forced to pvp, forced to spend evenings on teamspeak...
Then I might as well go right back to World of Borecraft that does the EXACT same stuff *looks around the restaurant then look at his mate* "I wouldnt be greatly surprised if a little band came in and started playing *hums the Star Wars Cantina theme*" |
Halafian
The Graduates
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 20:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Not a Rant/Whine... just hear me out
I don't quite understand the mantra of the mission runner. He sits in hi sec, hops in his faction fitted Raven and pew pews NPCs to make more money to pimp his Raven/CNR some more. Fair enough... But then what? Once you have fully Gist X ified your CNR what then? Once you have a full Crystal Set, what then. 'Make more money'. Or for that matter the hi sec miner, sat mining Omber in his hulk in 0.5? Where is your endgame? I sometimes rat, I used to run missions (Level 4s I found perfectly soloable in a T2 Fitted Raven) but the end goal was the same. Make money for Pew Pew with other players. Now the cry of a lot of bears is... 'But I can only play for an hour/two a night, just enough time for a mission'. That's plenty of time to go for a hunt in low sec or 0.0 and interact with people. You don't even have to go that far if you go and join the Privateers. You're paying your 15 bucks a month for this MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER experience. You might as well load up Elite or Freelancer if you want to run missions all day. PVP should be the end game for every pilot, you don't need to be rich, or have lots of SPs. You don't need to be part of a huge corp, etc etc. Get out there and have some REAL fun blasting/being blasted by people.
Maybe some day you and others like you will grasp the fact that different people can have fun in different ways. Believe it or not, there actually are ways to experience fun that are different from the way YOU experience fun.
I know that must come as a shock to you, but take all the time you need to reflect on it.
|
Larkonis Trassler
g guild
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 20:42:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 23/02/2007 20:40:02
Originally by: Halafian
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Not a Rant/Whine... just hear me out
I don't quite understand the mantra of the mission runner. He sits in hi sec, hops in his faction fitted Raven and pew pews NPCs to make more money to pimp his Raven/CNR some more. Fair enough... But then what? Once you have fully Gist X ified your CNR what then? Once you have a full Crystal Set, what then. 'Make more money'. Or for that matter the hi sec miner, sat mining Omber in his hulk in 0.5? Where is your endgame? I sometimes rat, I used to run missions (Level 4s I found perfectly soloable in a T2 Fitted Raven) but the end goal was the same. Make money for Pew Pew with other players. Now the cry of a lot of bears is... 'But I can only play for an hour/two a night, just enough time for a mission'. That's plenty of time to go for a hunt in low sec or 0.0 and interact with people. You don't even have to go that far if you go and join the Privateers. You're paying your 15 bucks a month for this MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER experience. You might as well load up Elite or Freelancer if you want to run missions all day. PVP should be the end game for every pilot, you don't need to be rich, or have lots of SPs. You don't need to be part of a huge corp, etc etc. Get out there and have some REAL fun blasting/being blasted by people.
Maybe some day you and others like you will grasp the fact that different people can have fun in different ways. Believe it or not, there actually are ways to experience fun that are different from the way YOU experience fun.
I know that must come as a shock to you, but take all the time you need to reflect on it.
I understand this... But, I don't see the point in loading up an MMO and then... playing by yourself. Besides, how many hi sec solo mission runners have ever actually tried PVP, as in not getting ganked foraying into lowsec but being part of a proper gang in an empire war, low sec, 0.0, jumping into fights not knowing if you'll win, leeroying gatecamps etc etc. Or going around solo like a shark, hunting for others to take on and show your awesome powar too. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler |
Ingols
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 20:46:00 -
[30]
Because there are some that are convinced (devs included) that Eve is a PvP game. Eve is not a PvP game. EvE is a much more then a PvP game. It is a racist, capitalistic, fascist and asset driven game.
Corporations struggle to obtain status by aquiring the deadly toys and controlling lucrative areas of space. Individuals stay with successful corporations and alliances that can provide them with protection, a sense of worth, and good times.
The individual aspect of Eve is overplayed and over hyped from Mission runners and Pirates.
The most basic and fundamental flaw with Eve right now is how it deals with Piracy. Piracy should be a career. Not an on again off again sideline. Players who hunt other players for fun and profit without having legal war status should be penalized permanently with low security status and permanent faction hits. Like a notoriaty system of some of the original mmorpgs.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |