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Doomsday Devices = Worst Implemented Idea

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Hank Showbo	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:06:00 - [1] This will sound like a rant and a moan, but seriously? Remote devices that do over 60K damage? I am sorry but that concept is just silly, and goes against your...'big long battles' CCP said on EVETV a few months ago. The concept of the Titan is good, nifty gang bonus (30% to either sig radius, armour HP, shield HP or cap recharge with titan lvl 4), clone bays, lots of captial weapons, siege module all that...it ammounts to a moveable battlestation in my eyes. So why this silly doomsday thing? It just.....WHY!!?! It ruins a fleet battle for people that have to fight a fleet with a titan. They make no sense! 'Oh well you click this thing and everything goes boom...and you win!'
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:08:00 - [2] watch "dr. strangelove - or how i stopped worrying and learned to love the bomb" i fear i just needed to be in this thread with my sig. thanks
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:15:00 - [3] well, considering that thier peak damage max skills has been stated at 52.5k "which is less then the 60k you claim it to be over" you probebly don't know what you're talking about. __________________________
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:17:00 - [4] They will nerf it, when titans become to popular.
Rachen Mysuna Brotherhood of Polar Equation	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:18:00 - [5] Edited by: Rachen Mysuna on 23/02/2007 13:16:15 yeah ship of that size just HAS to have some kind of uber weapon it does damage to own ships and you have to plan well the timing to use it maybe the time interval of firing could be changed to slower or add some kind of "charging" feature to the weapon and the titan would be at its weakest at that time (not everything is working) just my thoughts which i have developed reading all the war reports out there, i know some of them arent true but dont take my post too seriously
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Hank Showbo The concept of the Titan is good, nifty gang bonus (30% to either sig radius, armour HP, shield HP or cap recharge with titan lvl 4), clone bays, lots of captial weapons, siege module all that...it ammounts to a moveable battlestation in my eyes. Just to point out, titan can't fit a seige mod - only dreads can. -----
Hank Showbo	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:27:00 - [7] Originally by: DubanFP well, considering that thier peak damage max skills has been stated at 52.5k "which is less then the 60k you claim it to be over" you probebly don't know what you're talking about. The doomsday devices start at 46,875HP damage....skill increases by 10% a level... So max skills, its 70,312.5HP damage...so shhhhhhhhhhhh. I will however state I am wrong about them being able to fit siege modules.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Hank Showbo Originally by: DubanFP well, considering that thier peak damage max skills has been stated at 52.5k "which is less then the 60k you claim it to be over" you probebly don't know what you're talking about. The doomsday devices start at 46,875HP damage....skill increases by 10% a level... So max skills, its 70,312.5HP damage...so shhhhhhhhhhhh. I will however state I am wrong about them being able to fit siege modules. hmm instresting, did they buff the damage when i wasn't looking? __________________________
Chronus26 Gallente Vale Heavy Industries SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 13:55:00 - [9] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Hank Showbo Originally by: DubanFP well, considering that thier peak damage max skills has been stated at 52.5k "which is less then the 60k you claim it to be over" you probebly don't know what you're talking about. The doomsday devices start at 46,875HP damage....skill increases by 10% a level... So max skills, its 70,312.5HP damage...so shhhhhhhhhhhh. I will however state I am wrong about them being able to fit siege modules. hmm instresting, did they buff the damage when i wasn't looking? Damage got increased in a fairly recent patch iirc. -----
Niestrenna	Posted - 2007.02.23 14:19:00 - [10] It won't be such an issue if they manage to revamp alliance warfare to reduce blobbing effect. You also have to think about the fact that it can be fired once per jour and takes about 15 sec to activate. At the moment, lag during fleetbattle makes those 15 sec irrelevant, but it should be possible to avoid it in environment with normal response time. Another factor is ... the Titan pilot. at the moment, the current known titans are piloted by top notch pvpers, but remember how little of an impact Cyvok's Titan had during the Bob-ASCN war. We'll have to see what happens in the future, the thing I fear the most is an excessive number of titans. After all, for a mega alliance who invested isk into BPOs for titan stuff and has enough resources. It makes sense to try to maintain a constant production of Titans if they can manage it ... I guess at some point, we've all dreamed to see balanced fleets with a titan being the focal point of the fleet, a couple of motherships and a bunch of carriers, then a regular fleet of Battleships and their escorts, but this looks like in a sci-fr movie ... In game, no matter what we might say, we often end up victims of the bigger=better and why not cram as many big ships as possible as long as we have the resources?

Saan Sotall The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.23 14:25:00 - [11] any mechanics to discourage the 200+ fleet battles is a good mechanic. and regardless if you like the larger battles better, CCP has stated that its intentions are to discourage the 150 man blob. also, the cost on a Titan is prohibitively expensive, to say the least.
LordChaos Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:00:00 - [12] Originally by: Saan Sotall any mechanics to discourage the 200+ fleet battles is a good mechanic. and regardless if you like the larger battles better, CCP has stated that its intentions are to discourage the 150 man blob. also, the cost on a Titan is prohibitively expensive, to say the least. but when someone with enough isk , firing the DD on anything even if its a noob ship :) then thats a problem for all not just blobs The Master Of Chaos Celes
Galen Silas Gallente Mean Corp	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:08:00 - [13] umm, the titan's DD doesnt do that much damage, any ship that is piloted by a smart pilot will have a more than decent tank. It's already been stated that bs's, command ships, Hacs, even some of the bc's can tank the damage. It's not an I-win button.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:13:00 - [14] Originally by: LordChaos Originally by: Saan Sotall any mechanics to discourage the 200+ fleet battles is a good mechanic. and regardless if you like the larger battles better, CCP has stated that its intentions are to discourage the 150 man blob. also, the cost on a Titan is prohibitively expensive, to say the least. but when someone with enough isk , firing the DD on anything even if its a noob ship :) then thats a problem for all not just blobs i'm sure celestiall apocalypse can cope with losing a pair of noob ships every hour
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:13:00 - [15] Its something that can be compensated for tactically. Pop the cyno ship and don't keep your entire fleet in one place. Maybe even run wars where you attack more than one system at a time? Fancy that... _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Samirol Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:20:00 - [16] its anti blob which = good Originally by: High Sierra note to self - don't ever provide ANYONE with quoteable material EVER AGAIN.
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Samirol its anti blob which = good now if only we had some sort o anti corp jumping mod
Drege Intarestum	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:46:00 - [18] I'd be happy with the way DD weapons now if you had to put the titan in grid to fire. >>;;
Tom Gunn Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:04:00 - [19] What titans miss is a trench that inties can run down with a hole that leads to the reactor core....
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Drege Intarestum I'd be happy with the way DD weapons now if you had to put the titan in grid to fire. >>;; Agreed on that. Also, up the dmg bonus on capital guns to 50% per level or something. I'm betting not a single titan would have even 1 weapon fitted other than the DD and smartbombs

Cazziel Karjala Inc. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:33:00 - [21] Titans are fcked up atm. You can't effectively fight when there is a titan in local as the DD will kill almost any battleship around (except the judgement in some cases). Jump portal is awesome itself but remotely activated doomsday device is just pure madness. How should you fight something that is cloaked 99% of time, has ridiculous cap recharge time, can't be scrambled, does ~45-60k raw damage and has shtloads of hit points?
SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:34:00 - [22] Originally by: LordChaos Originally by: Saan Sotall any mechanics to discourage the 200+ fleet battles is a good mechanic. and regardless if you like the larger battles better, CCP has stated that its intentions are to discourage the 150 man blob. also, the cost on a Titan is prohibitively expensive, to say the least. but when someone with enough isk , firing the DD on anything even if its a noob ship :) then thats a problem for all not just blobs the costs of fire'ing a dd are rather high to start using it on rookie ships... Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Hank Showbo	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Cazziel Titans are fcked up atm. You can't effectively fight when there is a titan in local as the DD will kill almost any battleship around (except the judgement in some cases). Jump portal is awesome itself but remotely activated doomsday device is just pure madness. How should you fight something that is cloaked 99% of time, has ridiculous cap recharge time, can't be scrambled, does ~45-60k raw damage and has shtloads of hit points? ....continue.... OTT Gang bonus (For instance, lets say our titan pilot has lvl 4 titan, lvl 5 armoured warfare and is piloting the Gallente titan, thats....40% in total to whoever gets issued with the bonus) Immune to ALL EW, etc etc....the titans would be better, if doomsday were removed from game, and Titans had the ability to fit a siege module, as well as a super beefed up damage bonus.
Cho Hkan	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:51:00 - [24] Originally by: Saan Sotall any mechanics to discourage the 200+ fleet battles is a good mechanic. and regardless if you like the larger battles better, CCP has stated that its intentions are to discourage the 150 man blob. also, the cost on a Titan is prohibitively expensive, to say the least. Thats the problem isnt it. The people with the Titan also have a 200+ man fleet waiting to clean up whatever survived. DD's were the single most stupid idea to ever make it into eve.
Elain Reverse Caldari Shokei	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Cho Hkan Originally by: Saan Sotall any mechanics to discourage the 200+ fleet battles is a good mechanic. and regardless if you like the larger battles better, CCP has stated that its intentions are to discourage the 150 man blob. also, the cost on a Titan is prohibitively expensive, to say the least. Thats the problem isnt it. The people with the Titan also have a 200+ man fleet waiting to clean up whatever survived. DD's were the single most stupid idea to ever make it into eve. I am not sure, never been in fight with titan, but: a) if hardeners work corectly and i had 90% resist with 16k shields and 4k armor and supose DDD do 50k raw dmg, its mean my shields will go down to 11k ? b) oposite side also can use titans if have one c) its prety hard to build titan and there is already half ever build titans down, if i am not bad with their numbers.
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:10:00 - [26] someone got dd'd!
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:24:00 - [27] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 23/02/2007 20:21:22 I'd rather see a counter implimented by each faction in response too the threat than a flat nerf to the DD itself. Maybee another module similar to the cyno field generator that cancels out other cyno fields nearby (not system wide) that way atleast you can make it so the titan needs to be at the location.
Renox Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:33:00 - [28] Actually giving titans a large damage and tracking bonus to capital turrets might be a better idea then the DD. It would mean the titan would have to be present on the battlefield and while it couldn't kill 200 ships at once it would be able to 1 shot kill battleships with one turret or something similar. It would rid the game of the "instant kill fleet" incidents and instead "just" make it great backup to have in a fight... dunno just a thought as I really don't like DDs. (they look good though) TheJay > grrr slow stupid garlic eating surrender monkeys
Miss KillSome	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:02:00 - [29] DD is anti blob device and its working good.. if u dont wanna loose whole fleet in that 30secs of lag, dont blob..play tactics.. bigger problem is blobing..u cannot get any decent fights anymore if u are not outnumbered..there are no 1:1 or even 2:1 in 0.0..nor x:x, just x+100:x..
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:18:00 - [30] I believe I remember reading somewhere that the DDD was intended to discourage blob tactics, and by posts similar to this I'd say it's working as intended. I think there's a problem with it, though, and that is that the side with the DDD isn't discouraged to blob, and so the only way to "force" a fight is if both sides have a titan. Well, giant alliance vs giant alliance that may be the case, but what about the smaller groups of players? If they split up amongst several systems attacking at once they could avoid the DDD, but they'll still be horribly outnumbered and any "fight" would quickly turn into a gankfest. So rather than nerf the DDD, I think it would be better to introduce tactics that discourage blobbing from the DDD's end. Fights are so much more fun when you aren't just F1-F8'ing in a laggy blob.

DrLogan New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:20:00 - [31] Originally by: Cazziel How should you fight something that is cloaked 99% of time, has ridiculous cap recharge time, can't be scrambled, does ~45-60k raw damage and has sh*tloads of hit points? When it logs. (duh) -------------------------- FYI, a dev has responded finally, but the bug has yet to be fixed.
Ezra Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:24:00 - [32] Originally by: Christopher Dalran Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 23/02/2007 20:21:22 I'd rather see a counter implimented by each faction in response too the threat than a flat nerf to the DD itself. Maybee another module similar to the cyno field generator that cancels out other cyno fields nearby (not system wide) that way atleast you can make it so the titan needs to be at the location. Interesting, I had recently thought of something similar for territorial control, a POS module that had the following effect: Jump range of all ships incoming to a cyno in the same systems is reduced by half. Only one may be active in a system at a given time (and/or multiple may be active but the effect does not stack) The same module could restrict maximum in-system DD range. It'll never happen though. ------------ Ezra Cornell
Lucifer Fellblade Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Samirol its anti blob which = good From my short experience (a little of Jv1v or w/e it was called) it does nothing to deter blobs, since there is no other way to kill one in direct combat, and the DD can be easily avoided (unless your lagged to death, which to be fair, is most of the time). The problem does not come from individual DDs or titans, but several, all at once, especially when they're sat on a gate with lot's of large bubbles. It does nothing to stop blobbing, because if you go with less than a blob, it's support blob will kill you. ------
Saan Sotall The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:25:00 - [34] Edited by: Saan Sotall on 23/02/2007 22:24:19 with level IV in the DDD skill, it does 65,625 dmg of one type. if you have 90% in that resist, it does 6,562.5 damage. yes, with the right setup, even BCs can tank that damage. is it still devastating? totally. does it discourage blobs? yep. it costs quite a bit of fuel, has to be targeted at a cyno field, and can only be fired once an hour. also, i see many people in this thread stating that going against a titan+support blob is nearly impossible to win. seeing as a titan can cost as much as a support blob or close to it, i dont see why people are complaining. isk is the bottom line, and if the other side brings more to a fight, they have an advantage. also, it takes 15 seconds to fire. 15 seconds to get out after you see the cyno. if you are bubbled, it doesnt matter, but thats something people forget. and seeing as you could have many many many many capital ships for the price of one titan, it dang well better do something extraordinary.
Spei Prodetor	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:29:00 - [35] Originally by: Elain Reverse Originally by: Cho Hkan Originally by: Saan Sotall any mechanics to discourage the 200+ fleet battles is a good mechanic. and regardless if you like the larger battles better, CCP has stated that its intentions are to discourage the 150 man blob. also, the cost on a Titan is prohibitively expensive, to say the least. Thats the problem isnt it. The people with the Titan also have a 200+ man fleet waiting to clean up whatever survived. DD's were the single most stupid idea to ever make it into eve. I am not sure, never been in fight with titan, but: a) if hardeners work corectly and i had 90% resist with 16k shields and 4k armor and supose DDD do 50k raw dmg, its mean my shields will go down to 11k ? b) oposite side also can use titans if have one c) its prety hard to build titan and there is already half ever build titans down, if i am not bad with their numbers. Theres 10+ titans ingame 10 that i know of and probably more.
zevex	Posted - 2007.02.23 23:03:00 - [36] Originally by: Spei Prodetor Theres 10+ titans ingame 10 that i know of and probably more. I have only read of about 5 of them. 3 are activly DD'ing folks and 2 have been destroyed. Are the others simply in hiding?
Nordvargr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.23 23:16:00 - [37] Reducing the doomsdays damage to be impotent against battleships wouldn't be fair to the people that spent so many hours helping build the titan. That titan represents a lot of time invested by people, and CCP ought to be careful in nerfing them. I think the biggest issue is the one hour timer. This is a doomsday weapon capable of annihilating entire fleets instantly, used only by the most expensive super-capitals in EVE. Should such a weapon really be able to be fired routinely every hour? Reduce the delay on the weapon to at least a day, when a doomsday is used it should be a big event not your hourly doomsday activation. Players should feel the desire to use the weapon decisively, not warp a lone t1 frig with a cyno fitted into a hostile fleet, cross their fingers, and see how many they can kill. If the cooldown was much longer players might actually feel the need to pull feints so the enemy fleet doesn't suspect a doomsday and they are able to use their one shot of the day as effectively as possible. Even without requiring titans to warp in to activate the doomsay, the longer cooldown would encourage players to possibly warp in a number of T1 suicide frigates, or fit out a small fleet to tank the doomsday and warp everyone in and catch them by surprise.
William Hamilton	Posted - 2007.02.23 23:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Nordvargr [...] I think the biggest issue is the one hour timer. This is a doomsday weapon capable of annihilating entire fleets instantly, used only by the most expensive super-capitals in EVE. Should such a weapon really be able to be fired routinely every hour? Reduce the delay on the weapon to at least a day, when a doomsday is used it should be a big event not your hourly doomsday activation. [...] I fully agree on this. The best way to balance would be by decreasing it's frequency of use, not it's power. Perhaps in addition ot a longer firing time (a day seems good) it could consume more resources?
mama guru Gallente Friendship 7 Corporation YouWhat	Posted - 2007.02.23 23:36:00 - [39] The concept of a doomsday device is an intresting idea indeed, but its only a matter of time before it takes a bunch of titans without support aswell as a few dreads to conquer a system. to make other ships useful again ccp will have to either A) Nerf DD B) add ways to counter it somehow C) remove them entirely and buff titans in other ways, maybe like giving them a T2 siege module without tracking/explosion velocity penalties -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Saan Sotall The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.02.24 00:02:00 - [40] Originally by: William Hamilton I fully agree on this. The best way to balance would be by decreasing it's frequency of use, not it's power. Perhaps in addition ot a longer firing time (a day seems good) it could consume more resources? i do like this idea, but there is one thing i think that it actually unbalances about the weapon. having more than one titan will pay off all the more. the top top corps will benefit from this, as the people they are fighting will usually only have a single titan to bear. i guess my point is the hour long cooldown helps the 1-titan underdog more than the 10 titan supercorp, and making it longer would simply put those that are ahead in the arms race further ahead.

Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.02.24 00:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Miss KillSome DD is anti blob device and its working good.. if u dont wanna loose whole fleet in that 30secs of lag, dont blob..play tactics.. bigger problem is blobing..u cannot get any decent fights anymore if u are not outnumbered..there are no 1:1 or even 2:1 in 0.0..nor x:x, just x+100:x.. Titans encourage blobbing, since only a Blob can kill it in between cycles.
Leonardo Sabrioski Caldari Veritas Praetorian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.24 01:28:00 - [42] Originally by: Cazziel Titans are fcked up atm. You can't effectively fight when there is a titan in local as the DD will kill almost any battleship around (except the judgement in some cases). Jump portal is awesome itself but remotely activated doomsday device is just pure madness. How should you fight something that is cloaked 99% of time, has ridiculous cap recharge time, can't be scrambled, does ~45-60k raw damage and has shtloads of hit points? Easy lol! Send a virus to the titan pilot and bam... Another Cyyok (Not Suggesting anything!!!) ---------------------------------------------- Leonardo Sabrioski - Abbas Kristin Sabrioski - Matris
G Dabak Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.24 02:19:00 - [43] Limiting the DD timer or other such things works fine for 1 titan, but what about 3, or 5? I think CCP designed them with only 1 per side in mind, which is going to be a problem when alliances or coalitions can field many at once.
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.24 04:30:00 - [44] Originally by: William Hamilton Originally by: Nordvargr [...] I think the biggest issue is the one hour timer. This is a doomsday weapon capable of annihilating entire fleets instantly, used only by the most expensive super-capitals in EVE. Should such a weapon really be able to be fired routinely every hour? Reduce the delay on the weapon to at least a day, when a doomsday is used it should be a big event not your hourly doomsday activation. [...] I fully agree on this. The best way to balance would be by decreasing it's frequency of use, not it's power. Perhaps in addition ot a longer firing time (a day seems good) it could consume more resources? I agree aswell, and we own 5 of them... Oooops, wasn't supposed to say that =P ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Stakhanov Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.24 05:23:00 - [45] Am I the only one to have noticed that... ~60k damage / 3600 seconds = 16 DPS ? Fair enough , 16 DPS per hit target. But still - it shows that the only use of a doomsday device is area of effect alpha strike. What kind of ship can't tank 16 DPS ? It is therefore silly to increase DDD cooldown , it won't change anything even if multiple Titans are involved. 8 , 16 , 32 , 64 DPS doesn't matter as long as your fleet survives. But nothing will stop Avatar and Ragnarok pilots from synchronizing their attacks and kill it in less than 20 seconds. Use deception. Attack in waves until the Titans leave. Even if you lose some ships , it's better to claim a battlefield with 100 ships than lose 200 with the Titans still loose.


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