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Elles D
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:03:00 -
[1]
As the title says, this is a request (take it as a whine if you will, i'm not particuarly bothered) with a view to getting enough people to agree so that CCP may bring it back (highly unlikely i know but its worth a shot).
Reasoning=
1) With Escrow you could browse everything, and effectively 'shop' for your items, i don't know about others but the thing that annoys me about contracts is having to shift through all the regions for the best price.
2) Scamming on Escrow was easier to detect through the simple use of your brain by just simply checking, i know with contracts that is also the way but for many players the fact that you can link item descriptions in freeform contracts gives them an air of legitimacy; and as such makes them misleading.
Of course contracts have there advantages, such as auctions; what i propose is not to get rid of contracts completly but rather keep the innovative parts and re-introduce escrow for those that want to use it.
Thanks for reading.
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Ichabod Crane
LFC
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:08:00 -
[2]
Escrow was removed because it was flawed and scamming is just as easy to detect on contracts by using your brain and your eyes. People simply choose not to.
As for getting the old system reinstated, the time to make this post wouldve been before the contracts system was introduced.
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Name Lips
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:11:00 -
[3]
I never knew the old system, but I don't see anything wrong with the contract and market system we have now, with one exception:
High enough trade skills should allow you to browse all regions without physically flying to them. Maybe I'm wrong and this is already in there, though. :)
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Mi Lai
Black Lance
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:11:00 -
[4]
Whatever they do, I would love an easier way to transfer bulk (like complete Hangar inventories) to other characters. Busy moving my hangars, and with the damage mods, the insured ships and the limmit to 100 items per contract makes take a lot more then I think would be needed.
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Elles D
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Elles D on 23/02/2007 17:10:38
I agree i probably should've made a post about this ages ago but i forgot. In terms of scamming i believe it is much easier to scam using contracts and i never said that it couldn't be done on escrow.
To the AAA guy, yeh i feel your pain when trying to transport hangers full it gets annoying.
Maybe a reintroduction of escrow for a week to see what the community thinks would be a good option?
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Trem Sinval
Sinval Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:16:00 -
[6]
I say "no".
1. With escrow, you could only see the last 1000-odd escrows that were put up. The sorting options were awful, too, so when your buddy sent you something, as often as not you would miss it in the mass of idiots scamming Charons for Carbon, and if it fell off the "top-1000" slot, you COULDN'T CLAIM THE ESCROW. Yea, that worked well.
2. Scamming an item with an Item Exchange or Auction is impossible. "Scams" only occur through the foolish or ignorant using the wrong type of contract. It is utterly refreshing to be able to look for a module and KNOW that EVERY CONTRACT I'm looking at ACTUALLY HAS that item (instead of having to rely on someone's description, and having to check the item for EVERY escrow; don't forget those lovely description-less escrows that people set up. Never know what you'll get).
As for checking each region, it only takes a handful of seconds to switch over for each, and since the search drop-down keeps track of your previous regions, it's even faster. 15 seconds to check all of Cald space, another 15 to check Gall, another to check Min space.
- Trem |
CarboniC
Gallente
lOGISTICS INC
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:22:00 -
[7]
Hi
I dont scam - !! but i think it should not be removed -- its a form of game play that players want to follow - cheats etc and poor characters. BUT there should be better game mechanics to new protect players. More players that leave -- less profit to CCP-- No brainer really !
EG Player scammed -- Players should be able with game mechanics identify / paint the scammer to the other players something like a sec status report --IE TRUST STATUS/ seller status / feedback (contracts was supposed to do this in time).
Not happend has it ?
Carb
Trader and hauler. Jack of all trades, master of many.
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Elles D
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:23:00 -
[8]
oki, why not refine escrow then to be better than it was- fix the problems you stated and make it a fusion with contracts; if that's what the community wants
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Father Weebles
North Face Force
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:38:00 -
[9]
add a search key
problem solved
right now i dont even bother checkin contracts because it takes forever to find what im lookin for
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
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Wayback
Cosmic Odyssey
Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:41:00 -
[10]
/signed
I agree with this. I dont however think they should bring back the old escrow but tweek this new one a tad. I love the interface, however trying to find anything with searches is almost impossible. I always give up knowing that the items i was looking for had to be on the market (common) but never showed up.
I also have a hanger full of named loot that is just rotting because tbh I cba to fight the contract system to insure I dont get scammed or unknowling scam someone else. You will notice the amount of forum auctions for named loot as gone way up. I feel that is what alot are resorting to do with named loot, I however feel this needs to be ingame(much less traffic on forums=terrible sales)
Just my thoughts on it.
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Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:42:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Name Lips
I never knew the old system, but I don't see anything wrong with the contract and market system we have now, with one exception:
High enough trade skills should allow you to browse all regions without physically flying to them. Maybe I'm wrong and this is already in there, though. :)
You don't have to fly to each region The first dropdown box lets you choose "other region". Very helpful.
good game |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mi Lai
Whatever they do, I would love an easier way to transfer bulk (like complete Hangar inventories) to other characters. Busy moving my hangars, and with the damage mods, the insured ships and the limmit to 100 items per contract makes take a lot more then I think would be needed.
If you can afford it, buy a freighter (or a bunch of Indies and Giant Cans) And put your stuff in the cargo holds.
good game |
prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:54:00 -
[13]
/signed
escrow was far better imho it had problems but introducing a new system to replace it with even more problems is not the solution 
i mean i dont want to rant but honestly ... stop posting vague dev blogs , stop posting " in light of RECENT EVENTS " blogs, stop posting here's what were thinking about adding to eve in the future .
The need for speed initiative was was the most brilliant blog i think you "ccp" ever posted and a sign of hope . but since then hey new missions ! new agents ! new features !
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Kaia Kua
Macabre Votum
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Elles D
Of course contracts have there advantages, such as auctions; what i propose is not to get rid of contracts completely but rather keep the innovative parts and re-introduce escrow for those that want to use it.
So basically you want item exchanges as the default, and the option to shrink the size of the items in the contracts list so you can fit more on to it.
As well as an option to search the surrounding regions all at once.
You don't want to bring back escrow at all, but expand the current contract system
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Zzazzt
Gallente
Millennium
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:58:00 -
[15]
The big thing is regional visibility. I just want an "all regions" option on the cotracts search.
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Jason Marshall
Emerald Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:04:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jason Marshall on 23/02/2007 18:02:48
Id like to see at least a browse region option where it just lists everything for sale. It ****es me off having to search for everything by typing it out. Its a problem since myself and alot of other people arent the best spellers in the world
Edited for spelling, and i didnt even do it on purpose 
Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw! |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:10:00 -
[17]
Originally by: prathe
/signed
escrow was far better imho it had problems but introducing a new system to replace it with even more problems is not the solution
i mean i dont want to rant but honestly ... stop posting vague dev blogs , stop posting " in light of RECENT EVENTS " blogs, stop posting here's what were thinking about adding to eve in the future .
The need for speed initiative was was the most brilliant blog i think you "ccp" ever posted and a sign of hope . but since then hey new missions ! new agents ! new features !
The Dev Blogs are amazing. Other than thatI'd like to know what "problems" you have with the contract system. If you're talking about the "whole region" thing... I'd rather be able to search a specific region and see ALL the contracts than be stuck with the 1000 or so most recent escrow things. There was no way to set financial filters (only "affordable" which is useless if you're trying to see how much more money you need to get something cool)
If you're talking about the scams, they're very easy to spot on the contract system. DON"T USE FREEFORM contracts. Problem solved. Courier contracts are useful now. Item exchange contracts that are enforced by CCP? I love it.
Face it, escrow was flawed, limited, and retarded.
Contracts doesn't have the ability to search every region, but other than that, it's just fine. And honestly, I really don't want to search every region at once, If I have to travel 100+ hops to get something, I don't even want to look at it.
good game |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: prathe
/signed
escrow was far better imho it had problems but introducing a new system to replace it with even more problems is not the solution
i mean i dont want to rant but honestly ... stop posting vague dev blogs , stop posting " in light of RECENT EVENTS " blogs, stop posting here's what were thinking about adding to eve in the future .
The need for speed initiative was was the most brilliant blog i think you "ccp" ever posted and a sign of hope . but since then hey new missions ! new agents ! new features !
The Dev Blogs are amazing. Other than thatI'd like to know what "problems" you have with the contract system. If you're talking about the "whole region" thing... I'd rather be able to search a specific region and see ALL the contracts than be stuck with the 1000 or so most recent escrow things. There was no way to set financial filters (only "affordable" which is useless if you're trying to see how much more money you need to get something cool)
If you're talking about the scams, they're very easy to spot on the contract system. DON"T USE FREEFORM contracts. Problem solved. Courier contracts are useful now. Item exchange contracts that are enforced by CCP? I love it.
Face it, escrow was flawed, limited, and retarded.
Contracts doesn't have the ability to search every region, but other than that, it's just fine. And honestly, I really don't want to search every region at once, If I have to travel 100+ hops to get something, I don't even want to look at it.
good game |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:13:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Moraguth on 23/02/2007 18:14:53
Originally by: Jason Marshall
Edited by: Jason Marshall on 23/02/2007 18:02:48
Id like to see at least a browse region option where it just lists everything for sale. It ****es me off having to search for everything by typing it out. Its a problem since myself and alot of other people arent the best spellers in the world
Edited for spelling, and i didnt even do it on purpose
I'm not quite sure what the problem is. Could you give a little bit more detail, because I haven't experienced that situation myself, I'd love to help.
OH, sidenote. I will agree with one thing, escrow was very straight-foreward. Contracts needs some sort of tutorial or FAQ or walkthrough or something for those people who don't want to take the time (like Pseudo-OCD people like me do) to figure out how everything works. I'll be happy to help anyone who needs it. I'm not able to log in right now to verify some things, but I know alot of it by heart, so I'll help as much as I can.
EDIT: added pseudo. I'm not really OCD, maybe i just have no life.
good game |
Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:13:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Moraguth on 23/02/2007 18:15:38
Originally by: Jason Marshall
Edited by: Jason Marshall on 23/02/2007 18:02:48
Id like to see at least a browse region option where it just lists everything for sale. It ****es me off having to search for everything by typing it out. Its a problem since myself and alot of other people arent the best spellers in the world
Edited for spelling, and i didnt even do it on purpose
I'm not quite sure what the problem is. Could you give a little bit more detail, because I haven't experienced that situation myself, I'd love to help.
OH, sidenote. I will agree with one thing, escrow was very straight-foreward. Contracts needs some sort of tutorial or FAQ or walkthrough or something for those people who don't want to take the time (like Pseudo-OCD people like me do) to figure out how everything works. I'll be happy to help anyone who needs it. I'm not able to log in right now to verify some things, but I know alot of it by heart, so I'll help as much as I can.
EDIT: added pseudo. I'm not really OCD, maybe i just have no life.
good game |
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:51:00 -
[21]
auctions have ruined the "shopping" part though
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Irrilian
Quetzalcoatl Inc
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:58:00 -
[22]
A few suggestions:
1) Dont touch free form contracts, or at the very least when examining one take the default view that its a scam
2) Use your ignore list fully. You can manually form a blacklist of people who's contracts you dont want to see, just enter a comma separated list of names in the ignore text entry box, it persists between sessions.
3) Use simple view to cut the interface cruft:
Open "Contracts";
Select the "Available Contracts" tab;
Click upon "Show more options" in the top right;
Click upon the "Sort each page by" drop down box;
Select "Simple view";
Set your search parameters e.g. "view: entire region" "type: all";
Press the "Get Contracts" button;
Click upon any of the column headers to sort by that column.
One feature that Id like to see expanded is the ignore list, perhaps have an ebay style seller/buyer rating system.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Pirates of Destruction Union
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:05:00 -
[23]
I used to browse/windowshop in Escrow. Sit back and go down the list of things for sale, dream of things to buy I could not afford, laugh at various scams. It was simple, spreadsheet style list, not applely graphics, no large text, it looked a lot like the overview, just a list.
With contracts, I have to go through one laggy page after another, I have to search for spacific things, I can't just see a long list, instead I get this stupid icon and 'multiple items'. . . . its bull****.
Its one aspect of EvE's "Make ui more 'user freindly'" that made things more laggy and more craptastic.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:11:00 -
[24]
Letting people see browse all contracts in every region simultaneously involves much more work for the hamsters, but people ought to be able to search for a particular item across all regions if they want to.
Other than that, the only change that I think is needed is the removal of scams freeform contracts. The contract system exists solely to provide security when dealing with other players - freeform contracts are useless by design, unless you're a scammer and you want to increase your visibility in the hopes of finding a mark. If you're providing a non-courier service, your only effective security is your word, or possibly a neutral third party - in such cases, a freeform contract is at best a token arrangement and at worst a means for your clients to rip you off.
------
Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :) |
Elles D
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kaia Kua
Originally by: Elles D
Of course contracts have there advantages, such as auctions; what i propose is not to get rid of contracts completely but rather keep the innovative parts and re-introduce escrow for those that want to use it.
So basically you want item exchanges as the default, and the option to shrink the size of the items in the contracts list so you can fit more on to it.
As well as an option to search the surrounding regions all at once.
You don't want to bring back escrow at all, but expand the current contract system
Well yeah tbh, but then again i would be very happy with just having the old escrow back too; sorry if i mislead you.
Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated from everyone; from my pov it seems as if many people find major/minor flaws within the contract system that need to be adressed, maybe this would be the best option; a dev's view wopuld also be nice CCP 
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:18:00 -
[26]
No. Get used to it. The new system, while still having a few issues that need addressed, is a vast improvement over the old POS escrow system.
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Moraguth
Amarr
Rangers
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
I used to browse/windowshop in Escrow. Sit back and go down the list of things for sale, dream of things to buy I could not afford, laugh at various scams. It was simple, spreadsheet style list, not applely graphics, no large text, it looked a lot like the overview, just a list.
With contracts, I have to go through one laggy page after another, I have to search for spacific things, I can't just see a long list, instead I get this stupid icon and 'multiple items'. . . . its bull****.
Its one aspect of EvE's "Make ui more 'user freindly'" that made things more laggy and more craptastic.
Switch to simple view, i think a guy above told how. I can give you a walkthrough if you would like.
good game |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:24:00 -
[28]
Learn to use the tools, instead of calling them flawed.
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Elles D
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Learn to use the tools, instead of calling them flawed.
Bit of a silly thing to say really, why not change the tools for the better if you have the power to? Why learn to use something that is fundimentally flawed when we could just change the system for the better, thus making it easier to use- e.g. get rid of freeforms which serve the need of scammers.
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Elles D
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:36:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Elles D on 23/02/2007 19:33:09
Edited by: Elles D on 23/02/2007 19:32:51
Originally by: Gaogan
No. Get used to it. The new system, while still having a few issues that need addressed, is a vast improvement over the old POS escrow system.
What's the point of improvement if it just throws up a bunch of new flaws?
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