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Aelena Thraant
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:39:00 -
[1]
1st off I want to say that we are friends with BoB who have two of them... And I've just heard that D2 has a new one. This has been bugging me for quite a while tbh. I think the idea of a titan sounds great on paper, but in reality it has caused nothing but problems for everyone in eve. Who wants to travel 20-30 jumps to get doomsdayed with little to no chance to survive. Who wants to travel around in a system worrying that their ship will just vanish with little warning.
Now I know some are you are going to say that your just saying that because BoB lost a lot of ships to one today... But tbh that is not the real reason i'm posting this now. It was just the straw that broke the camel's back that made me post this. The reason is... With two clicks of a button you can kill hundreds of ships.
Ok now that the why is out of the way what can we do to remedy this. 1) Remove Remote DD - No risk to the titan and can kill hundreds of ships in two clicks 2) Reduce Local DD or lower the damage the farther out it is - 250k is too large of an area to kill ships with. I would say that it needs to be 50k range max but to compensate for the reduced range it could also fire every 20 minutes. 3) (This for motherships as well) - Change immunity from scrambling/web/ecm to immunity to ecm/web and a built in scramble strength of 30 or so.
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Enders Vaal
SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:41:00 -
[2]
I think the idea of removing remote DD is the best, but the rest would make titans useless in the longe run
As much as people who've been DD'd hate it, it's a needed game mechanic. --- "You are without doubt the worst pirate I've ever heard of." "...but you have heard of me." |
Rule2k
Fate.
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:44:00 -
[3]
i prefer fleet warfare myself, however with 100 v 100 + fleet battles there is just too much lag.
The titan splat weapon is simply the easiest way to reduce the numbers.
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Majin82
Caldari g guild
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:48:00 -
[4]
Titans are not Uber... 2 have already died. They cost multi billions to build and fit. It takes years of skilling to be able to fly one.
The Other hand
The DDD should be be able to fire remotely at all! If the ship wants to destroy 200 ships, it needs to put it's self in the LOF.
------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns!
Passive Drake For The Win |
Aelena Thraant
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Enders Vaal I think the idea of removing remote DD is the best, but the rest would make titans useless in the longe run
As much as people who've been DD'd hate it, it's a needed game mechanic.
I disagree that it is a needed game mechanic. Do we need something to reduce the blob... Yes we do.... DD is not the solution to that problem. Area affect weapons or something like that yes... With a titan it's now not who has the biggest blob wins... It's who has the most titans and biggest blob.
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Lucifer Fellblade
Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:48:00 -
[6]
The DD is broken currently, I agree. But if big ganky laggy fleets is what you'd call fun... well, I'd say your missing out. ------
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:48:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Aelena Thraant 1) Remove Remote DD - No risk to the titan and can kill hundreds of ships in two clicks
The only thing worth agreeing on.
Risk it (the titan), bring it into the fight, but a remote cyno popping ships AUs aways isn't exactly required. -- Jaabaa - CEO - Dental Drilling Corporation |
Aelena Thraant
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Majin82 Titans are not Uber... 2 have already died. They cost multi billions to build and fit. It takes years of skilling to be able to fly one.
The Other hand
The DDD should be be able to fire remotely at all! If the ship wants to destroy 200 ships, it needs to put it's self in the LOF.
The two that have died were logged off at the time. (One still could have fired his doomsday if he was there then warped off no problem)
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Majin82 Titans are not Uber... 2 have already died.
Funnily enough, when they both died, the pilots were logged off so not exactly a fight, but who's counting ...... -- Jaabaa - CEO - Dental Drilling Corporation |
Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:53:00 -
[10]
In my humble opinion, if Titans were forced to appear within "striking distance" to fire the DD, it would solve a lot of problems. The DD also needs to be made so you can't Jump in, DD, and Jump out in rapid sucession.
This would make titans killable under normal circumstances.
I would also like to remind any posters or readers that the two titans killed were pilot-less and helpless for the most part. "EVE is the worst MMORPG. Except for all the other ones."
[KUDZU] = Coalition. |
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Aelena Thraant
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Red Crown In my humble opinion, if Titans were forced to appear within "striking distance" to fire the DD, it would solve a lot of problems. The DD also needs to be made so you can't Jump in, DD, and Jump out in rapid sucession.
This would make titans killable under normal circumstances.
I 100% agree A DD should require maybe 50% to 75% of the total cap.
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NightmareX
Caldari Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Enders Vaal I think the idea of removing remote DD is the best, but the rest would make titans useless in the longe run
Nah it will be stupid to remove the remote dd, it will be better to have 50% lesser damage via cyno instead
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Jacob Castillo
Caldari Copperhead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aelena Thraant
Originally by: Majin82 Titans are not Uber... 2 have already died. They cost multi billions to build and fit. It takes years of skilling to be able to fly one.
The Other hand
The DDD should be be able to fire remotely at all! If the ship wants to destroy 200 ships, it needs to put it's self in the LOF.
The two that have died were logged off at the time. (One still could have fired his doomsday if he was there then warped off no problem)
You missed the fact that the he would only kill the small ships there at the time. Capital ships could still bump him out of alignment. There is also nothing stopping new interdictors from warping in and dropping bubbles after the initial doomsday blast.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.24 00:44:00 -
[14]
I'm starting to agree with this.
Each ship getting "wtfwned" by a DD is a living player who pays his $15 per month. He outfits a ship with ISK he had to grind for for a few hours and then moves 30 jumps thru 0.0 (another few hours) All this so he can get one shotted without seeing his screen load.
At the moment support fleets cower in POS's while the dreads do the meat and drink work of 0.0 warfare which is POS assaulting. It's not fun imo.
The only positive thing to come out of this is the players. They have proved no matter how high CCP set the bar, players can co-operate to reach the goals.
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Turin
Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:02:00 -
[15]
Actually, only one has died. D2's got replaced on an exploit petition.
D2 still has 2 titans.
________________________________________________________
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Torquemanda Corteaz
Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Turin Actually, only one has died. D2's got replaced on an exploit petition.
D2 still has 2 titans.
I'm sorry you know this how?
and wasn't there a discussion on titans identical to this one last week?
personally i would recommend remove remote dd'ing, although the titan has to be in system anyway, so if you have a clue the second you see a lone ship warp in, you either kill it fast or run like hell
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Heldane
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:39:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Heldane on 24/02/2007 01:37:02 It is actually quite easy to tank the damage from a titan if you have a battlecruiser or battleship prepared for it. The problem is with multiple DD weapons hitting you at once and wether or not they are using differant damage types.
Also, the idea that having a titan = win is entirely false. LV's titan has done little to change the outcome of their war despite the fact that the forces they have been fighting do not have one.
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Veriaxor
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:47:00 -
[18]
The titan was introduced as a backhanded way to try to combat the "blob". But CCP has done nothing to remove the necessity of blobs when it comes to POS defense/assaults.
So the end result is thousands of ships dying without any chance of defending themselves, hundreds of disgruntled players, and 3 or 4 giggling space-nerds. I'll happily lose 10 ships a day as long as I at least have some options; the titan removes that entirely.
CCP is unlikely to fix this any time soon. The sneaky kills of two titans (while very clever, and undoubtedly impressive) will only serve as ammunition for CCP to say "see, the titan IS killable!", and ignore this horribly imbalanced ship.
One titan is an inconvenience. 3 titans completely rewrites the rules of warfare, and not in a good way. I have no hope that CCP is going to act on this in any timely manner, but they'll have to eventually. I suspect the day goonies get their first titan will be the day they start getting serious attention. Until then, they'll be a horribly unbalanced "status quo" machine.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:50:00 -
[19]
EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!
(/signed BTW) --------------------
Verone for President of EVE |
Thatch
SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Thatch on 24/02/2007 02:55:54 I agree that remote activation of a DD is lame and would rather see the option taken away, but I think the titan is pretty acceptable otherwise.
It's just that, if I'm going to insta-pop, I'd prefer to see a cool ship at the same time. heh
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Infectious Disease
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:05:00 -
[21]
All, I am gonna say on this Issue is, people with titans and other powerful ships most of them are cowards, sorry for offending some of you but you are, and those who take care of business the proper way with these super powerful ships, heads up to you.
What frustrates me the most with people with these kinds of ships is they pick on beginners and as a beginner myself i dont really have the proper skills to fend of anyone not to mention titans, I say if you can buy a titan and fit it, get your own POS or make a POS with your gange to be more economical and find some unoccupided sace and make your own bloodly living area...otherwise I cannot wait to get in one of those ships Hell I cant wait to get into a Raven some nast little bastard ehehe properly fitted mind you...
Besides that minor little issue with idiots with ships like that, I have no problems...So please keep them, i wanna cruise in one of those babies
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:17:00 -
[22]
There is nothing really wrong with the Titans being able to either locally or remotely DD an entire fleet. The only real issue is that if the Titan begins with a full cap, it's impossible to kill it after it DD's. It can either remotely fire or warp in and fire the DD, and immediately cyno out of system.
The result is that fleet battle just aren't taking place anymore when there's a Titan about. The fleet with the Titan in their pocket just baits the enemy fleet into position for a DD blast. The fleet facing the Titan either sits in their POS, or baits the Titan into using the DD, and warps out before the damage occurs.
That, and the fact that certain Titan pilots seem to be online 23/7 doesn't help much.
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Jeronica
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:00:00 -
[23]
Have you ever made a titan?
Or even have the skills for it?
If a player wants to stick around for the skills, and then build it then its up to him.
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Cammulos
Magnetar Ltd Dark Synergy
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:06:00 -
[24]
I have to agree with the OP on this one. Last night I was flying through alparena and wouldn't you know it, an Avatar was camping the gate just setting off his DD device everytime someone came through the fricken gate. COME ON CCP!! Can't you, I dunno make them cost a ton of isk, take forever to train for, or at least make it so only a POS can build on. I'm tired of seeing these things being flown around Kisogo by all the nubs.
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ghosttr
Amarr The Silent Rage FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:07:00 -
[25]
There is nothing wrong with the titan weapon, its the way you fight. CCP is trying to introduce things that will effectively nerf blob tactics, and the titan weapon is the first step in doing this. Instead of whining on the forums about how your blob got pwned and that titans weapons shouldn't have pwned you all, you should be thinking or ways to effectively separate the blob as to make the titans weapon ineffective against the whole fleet.
Looking to join an allaince with 0.0 access where i am allowed to build poses. EVE-Mail me if you have any opportunities. |
Tragizz Fil
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ghosttr There is nothing wrong with the titan weapon, its the way you fight. CCP is trying to introduce things that will effectively nerf blob tactics, and the titan weapon is the first step in doing this. Instead of whining on the forums about how your blob got pwned and that titans weapons shouldn't have pwned you all, you should be thinking or ways to effectively separate the blob as to make the titans weapon ineffective against the whole fleet.
Ah, you who are so well versed in the ways of war.
Perhaps you can describe how to split gates in half so two groups can guard the same gate effectively while not being on the same grid.
Also state how you hope to defend a POS from dreadnoughts when you refuse to use "blobs."
A dozen small gangs attacking multiple systems at once is a fun idea but if your enemy brings an idential force that's concentrated you're screwed.
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Veriaxor The titan was introduced as a backhanded way to try to combat the "blob". But CCP has done nothing to remove the necessity of blobs when it comes to POS defense/assaults.
So the end result is thousands of ships dying without any chance of defending themselves, hundreds of disgruntled players, and 3 or 4 giggling space-nerds. I'll happily lose 10 ships a day as long as I at least have some options; the titan removes that entirely.
CCP is unlikely to fix this any time soon. The sneaky kills of two titans (while very clever, and undoubtedly impressive) will only serve as ammunition for CCP to say "see, the titan IS killable!", and ignore this horribly imbalanced ship.
One titan is an inconvenience. 3 titans completely rewrites the rules of warfare, and not in a good way. I have no hope that CCP is going to act on this in any timely manner, but they'll have to eventually. I suspect the day goonies get their first titan will be the day they start getting serious attention. Until then, they'll be a horribly unbalanced "status quo" machine.
I got dd'd and i ******* loved it.
You're right about the balancing, once bob goes down and its Titans are dead or defunct it will be time to rebalance the friggen things.
They have made blobs even more neccesary than before... and CCP still hasnt made even a tiny move towards "bringing the fleets closer together" as stated in dev blobs in the later half of last year.. range nerfs for the win?
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ghosttr
Amarr The Silent Rage FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tragizz Fil
Originally by: ghosttr There is nothing wrong with the titan weapon, its the way you fight. CCP is trying to introduce things that will effectively nerf blob tactics, and the titan weapon is the first step in doing this. Instead of whining on the forums about how your blob got pwned and that titans weapons shouldn't have pwned you all, you should be thinking or ways to effectively separate the blob as to make the titans weapon ineffective against the whole fleet.
Ah, you who are so well versed in the ways of war.
Perhaps you can describe how to split gates in half so two groups can guard the same gate effectively while not being on the same grid.
Also state how you hope to defend a POS from dreadnoughts when you refuse to use "blobs."
A dozen small gangs attacking multiple systems at once is a fun idea but if your enemy brings an idential force that's concentrated you're screwed.
I have since lost the link to the source, but somewhere i heard that ccp wants to nerf blob tactics in favor of smaller gangs. CCP is good at nerfing things, and the titan weapon is just that against blob tactics. If your blob didn't get pwned by that titan weapon, you would probably be complaining about how the lag killed you.
Also as far as pos defense goes, you could always load it up with stront. And wait till the shooting stops. Or better yet go to you enemies systems and start ganking his undefended systems while hes attacking yours, you dont always have to have a huge blobby lag fest and go 'defend your system', just use that time to start ganking all of the systems you enemy has left undefended. His fleet will have to pull out to stop their systems from gankage, or sacrifice those systems to gank yours.
Looking to join an allaince with 0.0 access where i am allowed to build poses. EVE-Mail me if you have any opportunities. |
Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:52:00 -
[29]
DDD can not and will not stop blobbing.
The blobs form because of chokepoints, if a fleet is aproacing the defenders blob the chokepoint and soon you have blobs on both sides of the gate or even in the same system.
It is true that a titan with its DDD could try to sneak in and deliver a blast killing much of the local fleet but the cost of a titan meens this will not be an effective way to remove blob warefare.
If you wish to remove blob warefare then add more gates and remove chokepoints.
An additional bonus would be that more people would brave 0.0 and become friends/enemies of the current squatters out there.
As for Titans beening good or bad...
A titan atm represents the pinacle of ***** enlargers in the game, its a blood red Ferarri, its a cowboy hat the size of wyoming and boots to match, its what everyone in PvP dreams of having, not all want it but all dream about owning it.
DDD, I was under the impression that it had a recharge timer of 1hour and that fiering it cost a huge amount of isotopes (or some other ice product)...
Naturally 250km range is steep, would it be possible to have the damage drop off over distance? say full damage 50km out, 3/4th at 100km, 1/2 at 150km 1/4th at 200km and 0 at 250km. additionally the damage should be less if remotelly fired, say 20% less or even half damage...
Im sure CCP would be able to calculate a suitable reduction of damage if they are so inclined.
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Tragizz Fil
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:40:00 -
[30]
My problem is that Titans make it harder for non-capital players participate in important alliance actions, which usually revolve around POSes. It was hard enough already
The nature of POS warfare means that there are only certain windows of opportunity that the POS will be vulnerable, and these facts are publicly known. This forces an engagement with whatever the different sides can muster, which I think is good. But apparently people hate this idea and love the fact that Titans can destroy large numbers of normal ships instantly.
I don't even mind so much that the Titans are powerful weapons, just that they are totally and completely invincible most of the time. Why should the most powerful attack in the game carried out REMOTELY and TOTALLY WITHOUT RISK? How is that exciting?
Titans are invincible behind a POS shield. Even if the doomsday attack wasn't carried out remotely, they still can't be tackled so they can cyno out at any time.
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