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Larkonis Trassler
g guild
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:39:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Hauler McTote
Edited by: Hauler McTote on 24/02/2007 15:54:36
How is it any more lame than corp A joining Privs, wardeccing someone, then leaving the Alliance, and cancelling the dec, not sticking around to take their lumps?
Double standard.
Ah, obligatory Privateer rant in a war dec thread.
You just don't get Privateers at all do you?
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Request for Privateer Sticky! Keep the forums clean!
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Larkonis Trassler
g guild
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:39:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Hauler McTote
Edited by: Hauler McTote on 24/02/2007 15:54:36
How is it any more lame than corp A joining Privs, wardeccing someone, then leaving the Alliance, and cancelling the dec, not sticking around to take their lumps?
Double standard.
Ah, obligatory Privateer rant in a war dec thread.
You just don't get Privateers at all do you?
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Request for Privateer Sticky! Keep the forums clean!
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:43:00 -
[33]
Quote:
The exploit comes when the entire corp disbands and reforms in an identical manner except for the name change, purely to avoid the war dec and continue on as normal.
Afaik, doing it once isnt an exploit, doing it several times is the exploit. Next time maybe go pick fights with someone that wants to fight. Corps that disband cuz of such war decs seems to not to wonna fight you. Pvp in any form is far from dead, you¦re just not looking at the right places.
Ship lovers click here |
Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:43:00 -
[34]
Quote:
The exploit comes when the entire corp disbands and reforms in an identical manner except for the name change, purely to avoid the war dec and continue on as normal.
Afaik, doing it once isnt an exploit, doing it several times is the exploit. Next time maybe go pick fights with someone that wants to fight. Corps that disband cuz of such war decs seems to not to wonna fight you. Pvp in any form is far from dead, you¦re just not looking at the right places.
Ship lovers click here |
Ishtar1
Puppets on Steroids
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:46:00 -
[35]
iirc disbanding a corp and starting a new corp is perfectly legit but if you disband the corp start a new one THEN rejoin the old corp after the war dec is over that is an expliot
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Ishtar1
Puppets on Steroids
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:46:00 -
[36]
iirc disbanding a corp and starting a new corp is perfectly legit but if you disband the corp start a new one THEN rejoin the old corp after the war dec is over that is an expliot
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Richard Aiel
Caldari
The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:56:00 -
[37]
Go fight ppl that wanna fight back.
PVP isnt dead cause o this, but maybe high sec greifing and ganking via war dec is...
an I dont see that as a bad thing.
*looks around the restaurant then look at his mate* "I wouldnt be greatly surprised if a little band came in and started playing *hums the Star Wars Cantina theme*" |
Montague Zooma
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:57:00 -
[38]
So, what if you declare war against a corp and they all refuse to log in for a month?
What if the corp picks up and moves to the other side of the galaxy and leaves no forwarding address?
What if everyone in the corp decides to play alts instead?
What if nobody wants to play with you because you're an asshat?
Ultimately, if your target doesn't want to be your target, they can remove themselves from your crosshairs and there's not a darn thing you can do about it.
Just go find another target. There's no shortage of them.
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Azrael Bierce
Cult of Lemen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:00:00 -
[39]
Not free exactly, it costs them 1m to form a new corp.
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Heinrich Klaus
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:03:00 -
[40]
PvP in general is pretty dead. Unless you're gate camping, you pretty much rely on catching people in belts where you only catch newbies, people who make a mistake, or other people who want to PvP. Mission runners basically run in an instance, and can just warp to 0 for everything. If a mission runner remains aligned as often as possible, the very small chance that someone is able to usefully probe him out (without him noticing, which he will if he checks his scanner) is almost negated.
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Lord Sid
Minmatar
Lordless
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:11:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Humpalot
Originally by: Lord Sid
Furthermore the pirates should also be locked in their corp. This is very reasonable and follows common sense.
Not all wars are pirates looking for some action and a few juicy mods to sell. Some wars are literal attacks for the gain of territory or the destruction of the opposing corp. As mentioned one way to "win" a war is to cause the corp/alliance you are fighting to have members leave them. If enough leave the corp/alliance collapses. I have seen it happen and when it does it is kinda cool.
Ya know if you war dec a sizeable/well established corp they generally do not pack it in and reform. They are simply too large with a name too well established to deal with corp roles and corp hangars all over and what not to just put up a "Closed" sign and start over easily. If you war dec noob corps with 8 guys in it then yeah...I guess you can expect they will just vanish on you.
I'm not saying all wars are just pirates and their marks. I know better, but for the example it worked. You shouldn't be able to leave a corp or alliance when it is at war. That's pretty damn simple and would solve a lot of ambiguity and wouldn't create any foreseeable problems.
If you want to leave the corp that is at war, I guess you better settle your differences.
-=Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds=- |
Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 21:24:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Heinrich Klaus
PvP in general is pretty dead. Unless you're gate camping, you pretty much rely on catching people in belts where you only catch newbies, people who make a mistake, or other people who want to PvP. Mission runners basically run in an instance, and can just warp to 0 for everything. If a mission runner remains aligned as often as possible, the very small chance that someone is able to usefully probe him out (without him noticing, which he will if he checks his scanner) is almost negated.
What game are you playing, sir?
Ship lovers click here |
Richard Aiel
Caldari
The Funkstars Guild
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Posted - 2007.02.24 21:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Heinrich Klaus
PvP in general is pretty dead. Unless you're gate camping, you pretty much rely on catching people in belts where you only catch newbies, people who make a mistake, or other people who want to PvP. Mission runners basically run in an instance, and can just warp to 0 for everything. If a mission runner remains aligned as often as possible, the very small chance that someone is able to usefully probe him out (without him noticing, which he will if he checks his scanner) is almost negated.
Wait for the missions to move to low sec and you'll be able to pirate yer heart out lol
*looks around the restaurant then look at his mate* "I wouldnt be greatly surprised if a little band came in and started playing *hums the Star Wars Cantina theme*" |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.02.24 21:59:00 -
[44]
Many 'PVP' corps also have full alt corps of carebear alts in empire. They use those alts to play with while the main PVP corp is wardeced. If the opposing force proves to be a threat, they login with the alts. They often play with the alts for weeks, bypassing entire wars.
Disbanding and creating a new corp doesn't seem different to me. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:01:00 -
[45]
It's not so much what actually happened in-game that shows PvP may be dead, it's the fact that here, on the Eve-O fora of all places, there's people countering the OP by saying that PvP in Eve should be consensual.
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Verone for President of EVE |
Spenz
Gallente
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:18:00 -
[46]
Non-consensual pvp dead? This thread proves how wrong that is.
YOU declared war on THEM when they didnt want a war (non-consensual), THEY left their corp to escape the war when YOU didnt want them to (non-consensual).
Welcome to EVE, home of non-consensual PVP 
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Allantia
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:26:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
....stuff....
Some cheese with your whine, sir?
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Dag Nabbitt
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:43:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Caldari Race Description
As most Caldari trade is conducted by individual companies rather than the State itself, this makes it difficult for the other empires to deal with them at a political level. If a company is found guilty of unethical business dealings, it simply disappears into its parent corporation, and before long another one appears to take its place.
As the above text shows, not only is this tactic perfectly legit, it's supported explicitly in the game material! What is there to whine about?
600 Days and Counting,
Dag
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Whippoorwill
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:46:00 -
[49]
Hey Gm this guy warps away when I try to gank him...nerf his wcs, hey gm this guy runs too fast when I try to gank him...nerf his nano/stabs, hey gm this guy disbands his corp when I try to gank him...nerf his right to move between corps. It ain't fair they won't play it my way...sobs.
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Forum Alt
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.02.25 01:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Just had the WarDec followed by all members instantly leaving and creating a new corp. Ya know the one.
So, following on from the popular myth that this is an exploit, I petition it.
And guess what....
It is NOT an exploit.
I can't post Verbatim what a SENIOR GM said to me, so that sucks, but corp jumping to avoid me is no exploit and is legal and perfectly valid for opponents to do that till the end of time. New corps, rejoining old corps, it doesn't matter. It is legitimate war avoidance.
What IS and exploit:-
Repeatedly joining and leaving a corporation during war to hopefully create a display glitch on the overview/local of your opponent.
So there you have it folks. Where you read "non consentual PvP", CCP mean... WoW. FTW.
It costs you isk to declare a "duel", and costs them nothing to decline it. It's like WoW, only you have to grind more to duel.
I hope Darkfall isn't that way when it gets here.
That's a real shame. Aww. Hre have a cookie.
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WredStorm
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.02.25 02:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
If the carebears would actually talk to each other:-
a) They could actually fight wars. But more importantly:-
Not to pick on you, specifically, Gaven, as you have fallen trap to a perspective on things that I believe many PvP oriented players have too... but have you considered, for even the slightest minute, that the "carebears" don't want to fight other players in a ship-vs-ship format?
"Huh!? What!? Sacrilege!" some might say. "This is a PvP game and they must fight us!"
To that I say bolix... this is a PvP-oriented game, but it still has lots of mechanisms for players to avoid PvP on a ship-vs-ship basis and compete in other ways. Trade wars, industrial wars, etc., are all other forms of PvP that some people enjoy more than going "pew-pew".
If someone wants to run a corporation in empire high-security space and avoid ship-based PvP, I think they should be allowed to. If someone is willing to take the time to disband their corp, pay to start a new corp, get all their members and assets to moved over, etc., then more power to them, and TFB to the dec'ing corp... go find some other fish to shoot.
And for those folks who think they have a right to smack around someone that smack-talks them, cry me a river. Grow a thicker hide, ignore them, or learn how to win a battle of wits as opposed to resorting to your l33t skeelz that allow you to blow hapless noobs out of the water.
Originally by: Gaven Blands
b) Privateers would be totally screwed if everybody they declared on simply disbanded.
I don't think you'll find too many people who'll cry about Privateers getting screwed over by any game mechanism that is legit. What's good for the goose is good for the gander!
Wred
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.25 02:25:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
War dec a corp, everyone in that corp is flagged to you for the next... uhh, 7 days? Yeah, why not. If you join the wardecced corp you get the flag, if you leave the corp the flag remains. When the week is up you pay your wardec fee and everyone still in the corp gets flagged for another week.
This is actually the best solution I have heard in a long time. The corp that spent the isk on the wardec gets 7 days of shooty shooty since they spent the money. The folks decced have to put up with it for 7 days, then get a free out if they don't want to play anymore by leaving the corp. The next week starts all over again the same way.
This also alleviates the "zomg my alliance just got decced, quick all freightor pilots leave corp now!" issues that currently abound as well.
Well thought out, balanced for all folks. Kudos to you Nero.
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
Gabriel'sBitch
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.25 02:32:00 -
[53]
Looks like the griefers got griefed
Cry me a river, go find someone else to WarDec, it costs nothing afterall.
or maybe go to 0.0 and do some real pvp, admit it, killing non-pvpers in their badger is hardly pvp.
If EVE becomes pure "I-pvp, you don't, you insta-pop the moment you see me" game, i think ccp will find a lot of its player-base moving to other pure pvp games.
Look at the server graph, how many of those 30k player do you imagine are pvpers? CCP's next paycheck depends on that number and admit it, they like their paycheck.
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I am a forum alt, my main is too shy to show his face. |
WredStorm
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2007.02.25 02:47:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lord Sid
You shouldn't be able to leave a corp or alliance when it is at war. That's pretty damn simple and would solve a lot of ambiguity and wouldn't create any foreseeable problems.
If you want to leave the corp that is at war, I guess you better settle your differences.
You really didn't give this statement much thought now, did you? Not allowing a player to leave a corporation or alliance while it is at war, yet there is no way to end a war unless the dec'ing corp stops paying. Hmmmm, yeah, that'd go over real well with players:
Message from GM to player wanting to leave corp: "Gee, so sorry you want to leave that corp that you can't get along with because their leader is psycho, but it's at war with some alliance that the leader ****ed off and so you're stuck in it till the leader says 'Sorry' to every person in the alliance. Of course, he'll never do that, so just suck it up and enjoy being a fish-in-a-barrel for the new few months while the war continues."
Wred
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Ithils
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Posted - 2007.02.25 03:22:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Ithils on 25/02/2007 03:19:25
You know, my main's corp just had to deal with a pirate corp moving in and harassing us. We and our friends decced them and (roughly) a week later they disband. Funny how all we are is a lose coalition of carebears, yet we scare the PvPers away.
Alt posting to protect the identity of my corp so the REAL pirates who will do anything for the pew pew won't know where to find it 
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AvatarADV
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Posted - 2007.02.25 04:43:00 -
[56]
Think about it logically. When you're "declaring war", you're essentially filing some legal paperwork with the police to keep them from shooting you when you engage your war targets.
So the war targets respond by going to the office next door to file other legal paperwork to change their corporate identity. Suddenly your legal paperwork is no good anymore, and you have to re-file.
Sounds just about right to me...
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prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.25 05:54:00 -
[57]
basically you missed the point about war in eve
way in the way back days of eve i had NO pvp experience and all i did was my little missions and trading making the isk hanging out blah blah blah
then the random war decs came in first on or two then more regularily
now most people go oh well this just wont do i have more important things to deal with than these fools there just greifers , blah blah blah
what i did is i fought back i read the forums about pvp fittings , i went to low sec and even talked to the local -10's about pvp and fittings what could beat what and how to fight and tactics .
then i droped my indy training and focused on combat related skills .
all these greifers did was open the game up to me and got me out of that foolish attitude that i could define , comment or otherwise deride the play styles of other without having any real knowledge of it with quick excuses and childish arguments . i have since travelled to all the corners of eve fought just about all the wars i could get myself into and this game is 100 time the game i was playing before i did .
and yes i became a griefer for a while too and you know what i always respect those who tried to fight back , spoke to them and gave them tips and ideas to put them on the right track .
so in closing lose the skirts and try on a pair of pants who knows they might actually fit ladies
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.25 06:11:00 -
[58]
I'm glad the GM has stated what he has.
War declarations are to cheap in EVE. Also its sad that you only have to bribe Concord when they aren't even the sovereigns of the systems.
If you want PVP on a regular and continuing basis then head out to low sec or 0.0. You can find all you want there. Heck in 0.0 you don't even have to worry about sentry guns, doesn't cost any money to shoot at folks. You also don't take any security hits for shooting at folks.
Hi sec needs to remain viable for new folks to have a chance to get their feet wet and enjoy the game. Also there will be some that will not want to fight in combat against other players no matter what you do. Continuing to force them into situations that they don't like costs CCP money as they decide to move on.
There has to be a game mechanism for them to get out of wars when they come unwanted. You cannot assume just because one loudmouth might shoot off, that the entire corp is wanting a war. Currently the only way to get out of a war if you are the victim, is to leave the corp or alliance.
We'd see a lot less of this high sec griefing if CCP would do some revisions of the war declaration system. The cost to war declare currently is set to low. It needs to be much higher than it is at least double the current cost. It should also increase with each war declaration brought.
Anyway the GM acted properly.
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All Clear
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Posted - 2007.02.25 06:18:00 -
[59]
we're dealing with someone here who... has absolutely no life
how do you kill that which has no life?
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Hamshoe
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Posted - 2007.02.25 08:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: prathe
all these greifers did was open the game up to me and got me out of that foolish attitude that i could define , comment or otherwise deride the play styles of other without having any real knowledge of it with quick excuses and childish arguments .
[SNIP]
so in closing lose the skirts and try on a pair of pants who knows they might actually fit ladies
Some lessons are apparently not well learned.
Sorry, it was too obvious. 
Kicked in the head by a horse, what's your excuse? |
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