| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
   |
Posted - 2007.02.26 13:58:00 -
[31]
Hey Dry.
"This means that cargospace is an actual important property for pvp, a thing that should never be true in my opinion."
Why not? I won't ever use cap boosters and you know why? I like my cargo space. I'd rather try to come up with a setup where I'm nossing the dude with his silly cap booster. Nosses might need a nerf, in which case cap boosters might need to get looked at, but right now there are enough downsides to this having to refuel and waste cargo space thing.
As for people saying you need them for missions.  No you don't. Lrrp, your theory is flawed. Well, your ability to mission run is flawed.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
"186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law." |
Elaron
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 14:04:00 -
[32]
On topic: Cap boosters are, to me, a delicate part of the balance of module and counter-module. Neutralisers and nosferatus are extremely effective at killing cap, and even with boosters it can often be a scrabble to get enough cap to run that MWD or get a full repair cycle off. The inherent limitations on their use (volume, rate of injection including reload cycles) keeps them in a perfectly acceptable position in my opinion.
|
Tarkan Kador
Amarr
PanTarkan Kador Holdings
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 14:47:00 -
[33]
If you want to spend a mid slot using a cap booster, you can tank a lot. You pay a cost though in versatility.
In Amarr setups especially, those mid slots are precious. Those are where your webbers go, your ECM, your AB/nano, your scrams, and a whole bunch of specialized modules that are crucial in PvP.
If you are a tackle/pursuit pilot, you couldn't even mount the cap booster, even if you wanted to, because you need every mid-slot freed up to use for other things.
So I see the cap booster as a real specialized module, because like you said, you need space for charges. Not so much of a problem for Amarr, but hard for other races who need to store ammunition and missiles too. Its best used when you can predict who is going to be called primary, and you aren't flying with an osprey, augoror, or other support vessel.
|
Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 14:49:00 -
[34]
I have lost ships plenty of times while I still had charges left. If they outdamage your tank you will go down regardless.
|
Heinrich Klaus
Internet Tough Guys Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 16:38:00 -
[35]
You see a lot of webbers, scrammers, and mwd or afterburners too, should we remove them? It seems like 3-4 midslots results in the same items!
Cap boosters are the best way to avoid being nossed by large ships, and beat nos in general. If you want to see something used more than cap boosters, prolonging fights, and not even using cargo space, take a look at nos.
|
Neuromandis
EPSILON TEAM
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 17:19:00 -
[36]
Now, now.
I don't think the original post meant that cap boosters should be taken out of the game, period. I think that he meant some things need to be rebalanced around it. If I misunderstood, here goes MY suggestion.
Cap boosters could be removed from the game, or rebalanced IF the following held true:
Nos was A LOT less effective. (effectiveness cut to half and less)
Caps were bigger in general (+50% for the win)
Cap recharge was a lot more, and different between ships (projectile/missile oriented ships get maybe 60-70% the total recharge rate of hybrid/laser oriented ships)
A mid slot module that actally added something close to half what a 800 booster does, i.e. cap rechargers and batteries were actually useful.
The GOAL would be to have a situation where useful alternatives to cap boosters existed (a single cap booster gives you something like 66cap/second, which you SHOULD NOT NEED unnless tanking extreme amounts of damage), and it is something like 10 times the normal recharge rate of ships. This simply means that the normal recharge of ships is too small.
Yes it is impossible to have a blastership without boosters. HELL, i'd say it's suicide to not have boosters in ANY pvp ship. That is not arguable. What IS arguable is if there would be a better alternative to the cap booster. As it is, it is another mandatory module to carry if you want a damaging ship.
I think the "problem" - for those that believe it exists - is the diminishing recharge rates of caps along ships. Why don't you need cap boosters in frigates? Simply, because if you run out, you go away recharge and return. The recharge rate is enough for a workable ship. The differences in cap recharge are a lot smaller than they should- ideally battleship should get twice cap/sec than cruiser, which would get twice than frigate, and then cap boosters would simply not be needed at the extent they do today.
Boost total cap amount by A LOT, boost recharge rate A LOT making it size-independent (as it is now a frigate is perfectly balanced to cap production/consumption while battleships are gimped having a crazily low cap recharged/used factor), nerf NOS to the point that a 4-6 heavy nos would be barely enough to counter the natural recharge rate of a ship the same class as the nos (so practically you could use it to counter a ship more tactically instead of instand PWNAGE), and then either remove the boosters from the game (they would be replaced by actually USEFUL rechargers) or cut their capacity to 25% (making them give you something close to DOUBLE the normal recharge rate instead of 10x).
This should be planned in such a way that battleships should effectively function like having a permarunning heavy booster with 200's, making battles more tactical and making cap something like hp's: it does not drop instantly, if it dies so do you, but a lot less prone to die.
And to the esteemed ISD member, I would add that in my personal opinion, eve should NOT have the equivalent to healing potions and such, it has a lot, lot more going for it to give it that kind of flavor. It is exactly the reason I am against cap boosters in general.
Please don't flame until you are sure of what I suggest. I prefer being corrected then flamed.
|
Kery Nysell
Caldari
Nysell Incorporated
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 19:39:00 -
[37]
I'll just point a tiny snippet of info at the OP :
Cargo space is, and always was, an important factor in PvP, because unless you use lasers without ever changing the crystals, you need ammo to kill the baddies ...
I don't do any PvP (apart from my attempts at "competitive pricing" on the Markets), but I know that when you're out of ammo, you've lost ... a Raven without missiles can't scratch the paint of a shuttle, for example ...
A guy with a cargo bay full of 800's will have a lot of cap, and on some Amarr ships that could mean a huge tank + good DPS, but on all the others ships, that would mean only enough ammo for 1 "load" of his guns, and nothing left after that ... emptying a magazine can be quite fast ... and after that, you could try chucking 800 charges at the enemy, but somehow I don't think that would work ...
|
Drykor
Minmatar
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 20:39:00 -
[38]
 Originally by: Neuromandis
Edited by: Neuromandis on 26/02/2007 17:32:31
Now, now.
I don't think the original post meant that cap boosters should be taken out of the game, period. I think that he meant some things need to be rebalanced around it. If I misunderstood, here goes MY suggestion.
...
Indeed, though that might not have been obvious to all. This whole energy warfare thing takes a too big part in pvp in Eve. Almost every bigger ship has some kind of capacitor stealing/gaining module, what ships fly without a nos/neut/cap booster now? In my opinion you can make pvp more interesting and fast paced without having to drain your enemy's cap first before you can kill him (and yes I know you won't live when you get called primary by a larger group or if you don't have the amount of repairers to actually use all that cap, that's a non-argument).
I know there are ships that need capacitor for their guns too and to be honest I don't have a good solution for that matter, one thing I can think of is splitting cap used for repair modules and cap for other modules like jammers or weapons, but this would probably make things more complex than needed.
Having said all this, I agree there are other things that need fixing more badly, I just wanted to bring it to your attention and discuss it, this wasn't ment as an OMG NERF!11 thread. Some reactions here make me remember why I prefer scrapheap challenge though.
|
Kara Kaprica
Minmatar
Warspite Developments
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 20:56:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Neuromandis
Edited by: Neuromandis on 26/02/2007 17:32:31
Yes it is impossible to have a blastership without boosters. HELL, i'd say it's suicide to not have boosters in ANY pvp ship. That is not arguable.
*snip*
Never use them, its not essential, *snip*.
Don't troll/flame please, be nice to your fellow players. -Oiri Yusko
Always Outnumbered. Never Outgunned.
|
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 21:18:00 -
[40]
Cap boosters are only a life-prolonger if your tank can rep more than teh damage you're recieving (VERY few setups can manage this) and your not being NOS'd enough that your booster cooldown cant keep up.
So yea, assuming those two variables are positive (not likely) cap boosters allow the person to live indeffinantly...well, until their boosters last.
So yea, OP's argument is pretty lame.
----------------------------------------
Friends Forever
|
|
|
AlphaMeridian
Ars ex Discordia
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 22:35:00 -
[41]
Quote:
In my opinion you can make pvp more interesting and fast paced...
Just to touch on this "fast paced" comment: Most of the changes that CCP is making to combat length are to make it less fast paced such that they can add more detailed things like Heat and System Sub-Targetting. If anything, I would guess that the proliferation of cap boosters and harder, sturdier tanks is something that CCP sees as positive.
-Alpha
|
Mr Peanut
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 22:56:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Chribba
Save your whineage until people starts using NeutCapBoostDomis.
Shhh!!! Don't let them know!!!
|
Deva Blackfire
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 23:18:00 -
[43]
Why noone told me cap boosters were so uber :(
My 3 absolutions died before i burned most of them :(
(1 - Ignoob with his nyx melted me in 30 seconds, 2- carrier+stuck mwd+getting into web range = bye bye abso, 3-3-4x dominix +2x mega+ raven ;p)
Boosters are needed in the current state of Nosf/Neuters. If you remove em you spell doom for ALL amarr gunboats - which can not keep cap recharge to keep guns online. Add 1-2 nosf and they are screwed. "Fit CPRs CRs". Yes - i would need to use up 5-6 slots to counter 2 nosferatus.
|
Denrace
Amarr
JEM Industries
|
Posted - 2007.02.26 23:25:00 -
[44]
Solution: Give NOSes charges similar to cap charges.
Like energy zapping tokens.
Den
________________________________________
Forum Signatures for just 10Million ISK
Just EVEMail me a request ☺ |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |